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A Magic God : High Priest vs Downstreamers [GRACE] 7-0-0

Accelerate420 said:
How do they bypass 'You can't beat me' 100% probability and Law manip?
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By having Probability Manipulation on their own? Its on the page.

Fair point about Law. That ability seems exclusive to their High 1-B form (obviously, I'm not using High 1-B)
 
Accelerate420 said:
You can't by-pass MG probability with probability since it's passively at 100%.
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I don't understand what you meant.
But if it helps, this is how Downstreamers' probability (well, manipulation of possibilities, actually. But meh, semantics) manipulation works :

Michael held his hand. Malenfant, the universe has many values. There is no one single path. Do you understand? The future can't be determined. Nor can the past. Therefore we are free to choose. . .
Malenfant spoke slowly, carefully. "What you're telling me is that I could change the past.

"But I'm no downstreamer."

You are now, said the Michael thing.
… And the universe pivoted around him, the lines of possibility swirling, knitting new patterns ...
Also, anybody in To Aru has Omniscience? Because Downstreamers can simulate every state of the universe down to smallest level. Brainpower enough to simulate every possibilities.
 
Nah, nobody in Toaru is omniscient. Iirc the highest level of intelligence in verse is Aleister's Supergenius intellect
 
Their probability has nothing to do with intelligence or seeing things. They passively make their probabiltiy and chances to always win and produce winning results 100% as well as to not get hurt or lose. You can't lessen or change that because the fact that they exist is what keeps them at 100%. So you can't lower it or mess with it.
 
XDragnoir said:
If MGs can incon Downstreamers, why they are not sharing the 2nd spot in the top 5 list?
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Downplays. MG's are the peak of High 1-C and borderline on 1-B if it weren't for how the system of the site works. Also omniscience in To Aru is debateable regarding Crossing the Abyss is stated to give immense knowledge on the World. But we need to wait and see the rammifications.
 
Accelerate420 said:
Their probability has nothing to do with intelligence or seeing things. They passively make their probabiltiy and chances to always win and produce winning results 100% as well as to not get hurt or lose. You can't lessen or change that because the fact that they exist is what keeps them at 100%. So you can't lower it or mess with it.
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Which means Downstreamers already know about that and won't waste time trying, thus they'd move on to next plan.

Outsmarting MGs to put their Passive 100% to irrelevance for example.

I mean, MGs allowed themselves to get fooled by Aleister.
 
Threemagi said:
Accelerate420 said:
Their probability has nothing to do with intelligence or seeing things. They passively make their probabiltiy and chances to always win and produce winning results 100% as well as to not get hurt or lose. You can't lessen or change that because the fact that they exist is what keeps them at 100%. So you can't lower it or mess with it.
Click to expand...
Which means Downstreamers already know about that and won't waste time trying, thus they'd move on to next plan.
Outsmarting MGs to put their Passive 100% to irrelevance for example.

I mean, MGs allowed themselves to get fooled by Aleister.
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That only happened because:

A: They had Zombie's spell affecting them at that point which Aleister abused

B: They weren't at their peak

So no, that's not an option and irrelevant. It's just a full on stalemate.
 
Offin said:
Does anyone in to aru verse have conceptual type 2???
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Magic Gods should have Type 3 with a debateable Type 2 since they can freely change and manipulate anything in reality which includes Causality and Laws. I'm not too sure about the specifics of Type 2 if you could explain it but they should definitely have Type 3.
 
If I remember correctly, type 2 is basically similar to type 3 concept manip in that the concepts govern reality and it cannot exist without these concepts, but unlike type 3 concepts that are bounded to the reality it governs, type 2's are completely unbound by the reality it governs and is actually transcendent of it. To make an example, if a being we're to destroy everything that represents the type 3 concept or all of reality, then the concept would be subsequently destroyed. But if a being were to do the same to a type 2 concept, then the concept would be completely unaffected as it transcends the reality it governs. If I'm completely wrong then someone please correct me.
 
Full power true gremlin shouldn't have too much trouble with Pre-FVC downstreamers iirc their substrate was rather limited in that form and their resources r finite.
 
Mr.Cinos15 said:
If I remember correctly, type 2 is basically similar to type 3 concept manip in that the concepts govern reality and it cannot exist without these concepts, but unlike type 3 concepts that are bounded to the reality it governs, type 2's are completely unbound by the reality it governs and is actually transcendent of it. To make an example, if a being we're to destroy everything that represents the type 3 concept or all of reality, then the concept would be subsequently destroyed. But if a being were to do the same to a type 2 concept, then the concept would be completely unaffected as it transcends the reality it governs. If I'm completely wrong then someone please correct me.
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If that's the case MG's should be able to affect Type 2 and Type 3 when using their Phase abilities manually.
 
MG's are able to freely rewrite and recreate Phases/The Universe to their liking. Freely creating Laws as well as destroying established ones so I'm pretty sure they can affect Type 2 but that's their limit. I'm also told the Downstreamers in this key are limited in their resources whereas MG's at peak have infinite stamina and magic pool so they'll outlast them and probably win them in attrition.
 
Their manual phase abilities is where they take control of the world and repaint it to their liking. Erasing what they don't like and creating what they do like instead of just emploding everything.
 
In most cases a being isn't assumed to be able to affect a higher concept than the one's their verse has unless proven otherwise, does To Aru have a concept that is higher than type 3?
 
Mr.Cinos15 said:
In most cases a being isn't assumed to be able to affect a higher concept than the one's their verse has unless proven otherwise, does To Aru have a concept that is higher than type 3?
Click to expand...
The Sephiroic trees would technically count as Type 2 since they're structures on every living beings souls and basically a grid-work to enlightenment and a Universal concept. Which Aleister and various other beings could interact with and manipulate. MG's should be able to do so as well if they really wanted to since their power is to literally freely change reality to their whim.
 
Accelerate420 said:
MG's are able to freely rewrite and recreate Phases/The Universe to their liking. Freely creating Laws as well as destroying established ones so I'm pretty sure they can affect Type 2 but that's their limit. I'm also told the Downstreamers in this key are limited in their resources whereas MG's at peak have infinite stamina and magic pool so they'll outlast them and probably win them in attrition.
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Downstreamers transcended the ultimate reality which contains all of logical concepts entire the Manifold verse and able to access infinite-D hilbert space realities, and I think no one in to-aru verse can do that
 
@Accelerate420

Are the Sephiroic trees transcendent of all they govern? And if so, it might be best to make crt to include type 2 concept manip to To Aru.
 
Mr.Cinos15 said:
@Accelerate420
Are the Sephiroic trees transcendent of all they govern? And if so, it might be best to make crt to include type 2 concept manip to To Aru.
Click to expand...
No one's really sure whether it exists in the phase or not because when Coronzon manipulated an attack down from the Tree, it was described as 'descending into the phase'. To Aru CRT's are very hard to pass. It's probably Type 3 though since Accel had to embedd a Tree inside the Phase.

But anyways, like I said, Downmemers key here has finite resources to their disposal whereas MG's don't. So MG's just outlast them then wreck due to them having infinite stamina and resources.

>Weaknesses: Dependent on energy (Mainly from Black Holes). If they are present in a universe approaching heat death, their abilities take significantly longer to use, as they cannot collapse any black holes to sustain their abilities and technology.

There's nothing to sustain them in a void after MG's implode the multiverse into a void.
 
According to Downstreamers Notable Attacks/Techniques

Transcendence: A transformation which allows the Downstreamers to transcend an infinitely-layered infinite multiverse after their Non-Corporeal form (Which was a neutrino/quantum consciousness/informational body) was destroyed in the complete multiversal collapse. This form transcends all known existence.)

Is this enough to stomp To-aru verse??
 
Hmm, then you should probably gather as much information as you can regarding the concepts in To Aru so as to see if there's anything that might point towards Type 2. When it comes to hax on this level, decent amounts of info is needed to gain them.

Regarding this matchup, I'm rather neutral on who would win and am simply gonna let you guy's debate it.
 
Mr.Cinos15 said:
Hmm, then you should probably gather as much information as you can regarding the concepts in To Aru so as to see if there's anything that might point towards Type 2. When it comes to hax on this level, decent amounts of info is needed to gain them.
Regarding this matchup, I'm rather neutral on who would win and am simply gonna let you guy's debate it.
Click to expand...
Yeah, the problem is To Aru is just no entering concept terriroty since the new arc really so there's still not much we know about the Trees and the Secret Chiefs who are said to be beyond the Magic Gods.

I still think MG's either stalemate or take the W.
 
Accelerate420 said:
No, cuz they still can't kill the Magic Gods and like I pointed out, their weakness is the determining factor.
Click to expand...
I think DS's weakness is irrelevant to short-period battle, but I'm actually sure that 11D universe is meaningless to DS

No need to use a lof of resources in this match tho.
 
Uuuh, yeah, it is relevant since this isn't a short period battle since they can't affect the Magic Gods thanks to their hax counters. And the Magic Gods don't need to rest, so it can go as long as they want since they enjoy fighting.
 
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