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Marvel Cosmics Upgrade (Including Sentry and Statement Analysis)

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I was hoping in this thread, to be able to compress and analyze all the feats and reasoning for why I think Captain Britian should be Atleast 2-A, Likely Higher, I am aware there have been multiple threads regarding these feats, and all of them have been declined, but I do hope we can carry out another thread regarding this in a civil manner, as all the feats will be analyzed in-depth.

To start off, and in my opinion, the most Important thing

Captain Britian Himselfis The Excalibur -With The Combined Power of The Amulet and The Sword Excalibur Being Able to Tear Asunder The OMNIverse.

- The Most Common Refutations to this were something on the lines of
"It says the combined power of both the amulet and Excalibur, not just Excalibur"
"Him being the Excalibur seems like a figure of speech."

- The First Refutation is Irrelevant if we look into Britian's Backstory, as it made's very clear that the origins of his "Basic" Powers originate from him MERGING with the Amulet, Therefore, Leading to him being both Artifacts combined and the Power being split between them absolutely Irrelevant.


For the 2nd Part, I have no idea how anyone can take this as a "Figure of Speech"
- Let's carefully analyze what the scan would truly entail but looking at the dialogue.
"You are what you believe, Son."
"YOU captain britian, ARE The Sword."
"You ARE EXCALIBUR."
"Wield YOUR Power wisely where lesser men would do so foolishly."
"Use it to not to hack...but to HEAL"

Firstly, and most Important, nothing in this dialogue would even IMPLY that this is a figure of speech, infact, everything In the story supports it.
- Captain Britian himself uses the Sword to Heal everyone within the Afterlife, which is what he was told to do WITH The Power of Excalibur.
- While he is fixing everything, he does quite literally mutter to himself "I am the sword"
- Those same words in the same scan were stated to be the words which made him tap into "his divine spark" (I.e, untapped potential)


• Captain Britian taps into the Energy Matrix for Power.

An explanation of what the Matrix is:



- The Matrix itself is what holds the Multiverse together
- Roma gains her power from the Matrix, The Same Roma who plays a chess game which the entire multiverse relies o , and exists in a realm which encompasses all of existence.

- The Same Roma who was also directly stated to be > Doctor Strange - Twice.
-The Matrix is what enabled Britian to fight the likes of Fury Merged Jaspers (Who became Whole Post House of M), which would actually imply that they aren't tapping into mere infinitsmal fractions of the Matrix (making any sort of analogy regarding psykers and the warp, star wars and the force irrelevant) Which also falls in neatly into it being "confined by britian"

- Capable of Directly Surpassing Odi and Being Equal to the Universal Phoenix with full confidence.-

- He was also capable of fighting the Fury , who was relative to MJJ and was a threat to all existence


The Reason the Jasper thing is so impressive is because Him and the Fury were stated to be a threat to the Multi/Omniverse [https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-8YSVUg6R...dCNACLcBGAs/s1600/earth-238-reality-storm.jpg - Once.] (Also states he can affect Probability and Logic, neat)

- Twice

- Thrice.

- Fourice?

- Cinco?

- Wait...Six times?

- Seven????

- EIGHT????
Point proven, i guess.

Now, to establish the "far higher"

- The Otherworld And The Citadel (Which is In The Otherworld) were all also referred to as "Pan-dimensional"
The definition of Pan-Dimensional, Incase anyone is wondering:

Adjective[edit]
pandimensional (not comparable)

Of or pertaining to all dimensions of reality.

The referenecs of this are: - Here


- Here

- Insinuated here

- Here

- And Here

The First two scans clearly talk about Pan-Dimensionality, the last 3 follow the definition of Pan-Dimensional, with the last two talking about spatiotemporal dimensions as clearly mentioned by britian when he uses terms like "the 4th dimension."

[https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-elHoph5y5_w/U90CRiLCnUI/AAAAAAAAGa4/NgDHxqc5O_E/s1600/marvel_wanda_06.jpg And, for the most important and obviously most clear cut scan.

"Time and Space, our Very Perception of Reality, Is defined By - Governed by Natural laws They provide the foundation and structure of our very existence Now, Imagine they were all stripped away No more BOUNDARIES - What these "Quantum Physicists" Like to Call BRANES - Between DIMENSIONS"

This was in reference to The Chaos Wave destroying the otherworld, it is pretty much undeniably referring to spatiotemporal dimensions and how the Otherworld encompasses all of them.]


So, Yes, In conclusion, The Otherworld would most likely connect to all realities AND dimensions within marvel, hence why I added the "Likely", or atleast "Possibly" Far Higher.

Now, as the title suggests, we obviously aren't stopping here, I was also planning to upgrade the Sentry.

- He casually negged Doom's defense systems and force fields at their full capacity, even when Doom was amped by Magic and that Sentry was for the most part Unstable

- These same Forcefields were able to make doom completely block and negate Attack's from Captain Britian, to the point where he exclaims he "ALMOST" felt them

- Bonus feat for Doom, Phoenix Level Mind hax

- The Defense Systems also tank even a blast from Infinity Gauntlet Thanos with killing intent at point blank.

- Also able to tank hits from galactus and absorb his power with his defense system, who in this comic, was a threat all creation, all realities known and unknow , and could end all of existence with a mere thought , also Doom mentions how the Cosmic Cube (2-A) was mere fraction of that Galactus' power.

- During What if? Siege, Issue 200, it directly states that if the Sentry had the full power of the Void, he would have destroyed the universe , every god, hero and villian, which would include Galactus as a bare minimum (I would say it includes the likes of Uatu, Captain Britian, Phoenix, etc.)


- The Void states that he is the biggest thread to ever face the earth, and the strongest hero, again more consistent galactus and captain britian scaling. (Infinity Gauntlet aswell btw)

- He was able to contain the energies of a destablized cosmic cube in his earlier years, sentry has gotten far stronger since then.

- Absorbing Man, who could absorb the powers of a Cosmic Cube, Odin, Galactus, Power which can destroy scarlet witch, wiccan and Dormammu, couldn't handle Sentry giving him all his power and basically collapsed on himself, even with a mere fraction, he flat out states he thinks Sentry is GOD himself with these powers.

- House of M was nothing in comparison to what Sentry could cause.

- A casual psychic outbreak from Sentry could "cause another House of M"

- The most powerful being the wolverine has met, which Includes Exitar and Life-Force Doom, who stated the power of the beyonder is "nothing in comparison to that of the Life Force" I could go on and on about how else this would include but this seems fine.

- Rogue states the same, putting Sentry atleast far above omega level mutants like Legion, FR, Phoenix Jean, etc.

There are about 10+ feats I left out but this should be fine for now.

Also, Odin should be 2-A, he consistently scales to the likes of Mephisto and the such All the feats are here and here since after a few revisions most of these feats are now up to 2-A, this also helps scaling sentry and CB.
 
I'm sorry for the lack of explanation but I'm a bit sick IRL , but that won't stop me completely:

- I agree except for the fact that both Rogue and Co wouldn't be aware of the fullest extent of some mutant's abilities, such as FR but I'll go into that in a minute.

- Everything else seems accurate enough that if need be I'll just ignore it unless it's questioned.

Fallen Stars

I was asked to go ahead and show what I've learned about the Fallen Stars:

  • This would mean all of the Fallen Stars stuff is usable once again to scale to who it actually would.
I already mentioned the feats in a prior threads so I won't be saying what this'll do... But let's just say if accepted would flunctuate most of the 2-As to pure High 1-Bs or potentially just "possibly High 1-B" , not neccessarily just due to direct feats from but cosmology stuff involving the Nexus of All Realities and comparable construcs to it being destroyed/altered by the fodder of the current 2-As

History of the Marvel Universe Issue 3

  • Even if one were to argue Future Franklin is >>> Child FR & Adult FR, snothing really hints at such a difference that it's unscalable. Hickman directly stated Franklin's Child Self was what empowered Galactus, not Adult Franklin. Also Franklin was explicitly told to hold back on the Celestials prior, so any feat we saw him due against them wasn't their full potential.
  • Since Adult FR is definitely not centuries older than Child FR, and Child FR only started making "worlds" during the Heroes Reborn arc, it's safe to say that they would scale loosely.
Due to aforementioning of Cantor's Antics within Marvel it would theoretically upgrade them but that depends on a few things in that thread and isn't 100% set in stone.
 
"- I agree except for the fact that both Rogue and Co wouldn't be aware of the fullest extent of some mutant's abilities, such as FR but I'll go into that in a minute."

I would agree, if it wasn't for the fact that what they know about franklin is that he would still be one of the if not the most powerful mutant to them, that still scales him above the likes of Legion, MM, Phoenix, etc.

I do agree with your analysis, I also want to bring up how future franklin also did absorb child franklin's power, why would that have been the case if future franklin's power was supposedly THAT much above child franklin's? The only logical conclusion is that they would be comparable in power, and due to franklin stating he started "letting his imagination run really wild", I think it's more so that Franklin just "opened his eyes" more, not that he actually got stronger in power.
 
True enough. They are referring based on knowledge of what they've encountered from FR, not neccessarily his true powers which only scale to a few.

Yeah I also got a similar indication from the scans about FR becoming more aware of the full scope of his abilities as he got older, not necccessarily because he was breaking the limit of his powers.
 
Following, but so far i agree with the proposals. Sentry has a ton of anti feats (aka everytime Thor hasn't been vaporized by an attack from him) but those can be mostly be chalked up to Sentry holding back/outliners right?
 
Yeah, either him being unstable, not at full potential, him holding back, or it being outliers for thor, also, he can potentially just be 2-A with sheer hax if we exclude him being 2-A physically.
 
2-A reality warping Sentry is more consistent than just 2-A Sentry in my view and even then it's only when his mental condition isn't messed up which is a very common occurrence.
 
He definitely isn't 2-A physically, yes.
 
No, I don't think it's really that common at all, for the most part, the dude has PTSD and barely even wants to fight, being scared of unleashing the void.

Regardless, We Know that Amps from the Death-Seed make people on par with the Phoenix as a minimum, and that Deathseed Sentry himself was actually the one both rogue and wolverine's statements were referring to.

Don't see the inconsistency, Unstable scales to the Void (For the most part of course since he still has things like not vaporizing thor but again, holding back.), The Full Void scales to the what Ifs and things like not being affected by house of M, being above the likes of galactus and cosmic cubes as a whole, etcetera. I do want to see some legitimate refutations against the whole thing

Besides, do you have any opinion regarding captain britian orrr?
 
Captain Britain seems straightforward if this isn't a one off power up and he doesn't have consistent lower showings. For Sentry the most I support is a 2-A reality warping statistic.
 
Yeah, I did it to everyone.

@Qaw and yeah, it's definitely not a one off. And if you want I can post some more stuff suggesting sentry reaches a higher tier, but again, I don't really see the counter arguments.
 
I say I agree with just about all of this. It's pretty straight forward and we defintely see that there is plenty of evidence.

Captain Britain doesn't really have low showings to contradict his upgrade. I mean, his showings have him fighting and holding his own against some of the more powerful beings/forces that run around the Marvel Multiverse.

I most certainly agree that Sentry is 2-A with hax, not physically. Also, any low showings for him are due to the fact that his power does go up and down even in-universe.

As For 2nd Seed's proposal, I think having the Marvel 2-A be given a possibly High 1-B rating to be the best course of action.
 
More deathseed stuff

Even when rogue had the power of the likes of strange ,scarlet witch, every avenger, etc. (Witch is the most notable as she's 2-A)she could still do barely anything to Exitar, Sentry then came in, lifted exitar easily, and then Rogue came out scared shitless not believing anyone is as powerful as Sentry is (In the scan I posted earlier)

The Same Exitar was > Atleast 5 Cosmic Cubes in this comic, based off kang's statement, and potentially the IG, consistent with the entire 4th host combined being literally nothing to him.

We also know the Void can effect places like the white hot room , which is where celestials rebirth, and the white phoenix lives, it's also the nexus of all realities

I am pretty sure this would be enough, then we have current sentry being probably the strongest, as he's flat out the void and stable sentry merged together.

EDIT: Oh my god, I nearly forgot

We do know for a fact that Sentry > Nate Grey, as he clearly states Sentry would give him a ass whooping if he desired , And no, this Nate isn't any weaker, as he directly brings up the "old days" where him and sentry teamed up and fought beings like galactus, and says he wants them to GO BACK to that point, implying there isn't any power difference.

The Same Nate who was on par with The Phoenix , On the same level as Franklin (Potentially Higher ,or atleast above Phoenix Jea )

He was also stated to be able to devour every Universe , And Created His Own Multiverse parallel to the basic Marvel one.

Incase there were any doubts, the same nate I am talking about was said by norman to be able to "go one on one with the sentry, which has always been how I judged who's too dangerous"
 
Can we atleast try evaluating the sentry scans? It seems pretty clear cut to me, ngl. I do think he would be atleast 2-C as the Void due to negging Strange tho.
 
The Reason the Jasper thing is so impressive is because Him and the Fury were stated to be a threat to the Multi/Omniverse

The First Scan just says that gravity, cause and effect, proability, and logic went haywire. Nothing about the multiverse nor omniverse mentioned.

The Second Scansays that it only affected one world, but then started to spread to invidivdual worlds in the universe. He merely mentions that he has the capability of removing a universe if he thinks it threatens the multiverse. There is no infereence in this scan that says otherwise.

The Third Scan mentions that he can jump from universe to universe. It doesn't mention anything about destroying them.

The Fourth scan is a complete debunk. It says that if the world they are on falls to chaos, it spreads throughout the universe. Then it just becomes like a domino effect. This scan points to the fact that he wouldn't be directly affecting them, but rather, the results of the first universe would spread without any direct action needed, other than being next to each other.

The Fifth scan talks about one universe within the omniverse, as it says one continuum, which is just a single timeline.

The guidebooks are wholely unusable for scaling marvel, as these are restating incorrect interpretations of what actually happens in the comics. The first scan of the databook says that Fury and Jaspers were going to destroy the omniverse, but throughout these scans, it says they were just hurting individual planets, and their afteraffects were going to affect the universe, planet to planet. Both scans of the databook are directly debunked by the scans from the comics presented.

The seventh scan refers to existence, which in almost every single marvel comic, is a single continuum. This also is referred back in previous scans posted by Hykuu multiple times being single worlds.
 
To start off, and in my opinion, the most Important thing

Captain Britian Himselfis The Excalibur -With The Combined Power of The Amulet and The Sword Excalibur Being Able to Tear Asunder The OMNIverse.

- The Most Common Refutations to this were something on the lines of
"It says the combined power of both the amulet and Excalibur, not just Excalibur"
"Him being the Excalibur seems like a figure of speech."


The scans says that their combined power can sunder the omniverse. Sundering just means to split in half. That wouldn't make you multiversal or 2-A.
 
What? You do realize that would still count as AP, as he is effecting the omniverse as a whole, right? It doesn't have to be DC
 
I think that Kappatalism seems to make sense. Marvel is fundamentally built on complete nonsense scaling inconsistencies and outliers after all, and sundering is likely flowery language hyperbole.
 
-The Matrix is what enabled Britian to fight the likes of Fury Merged Jaspers (Who became Whole Post House of M), which would actually imply that they aren't tapping into mere infinitsmal fractions of the Matrix (making any sort of analogy regarding psykers and the warp, star wars and the force irrelevant) Which also falls in neatly into it being "confined by britian" No one can read this scan

- Capable of Directly Surpassing Odi and Being Equal to the Universal Phoenix with full confidence.-

Nothing here says he is stronger than Odin, and he merely pushed the Pheonix back. There is 0 context that proves what you are saying.

- He was also capable of fighting the Fury , who was relative to MJJ and was a threat to all existence

He didn't fight the fury, he got bullied the entire time in these scans. A threat to existence, like all of y your other scans that mention existence, is one continum. Which is a universe.
 
Antvasima said:
I think that Kappatalism seems to make sense. Marvel is fundamentally built on complete nonsense scaling inconsistencies and outliers after all, and sundering is likely flowery language hyperbole.
Why would it be Inconsistent if both the sword and britian don't have any low ends?

@Kappa

- This was in reference to Otherworld, which in itself encompasses all magic and reality, so that's a irrelevant point.

Them being the best users of the ancient ways and them having more control over magic is a complete generalization from strange himself, it doesn't matter what artifacts he's using, and even then, we presuppose strange is at his normal 2-A power unless showcased otherwise.
 
Can you try fitting these into a comment? lol.

Yeah, he did fight the fury, is it relevant that he got bullied? obviously not, all that matters is that he took attacks, and has the AP as shown when he sent Fury Merged Jaspers flying away.

"All of existence" was literally referring to the multi/omniverse as shown in literally every single other scan, why are you nitpicking? I showcased the context right infront of you. None of the scan only mention a single universe without further context, by the way, the only one elaborates on MJJ being a threat to the omniverse right after.
 
- He casually negged Doom's defense systems and force fields at their full capacity,

It clearly says it cannot defend against unknown energy, not because it is powerful.

even when Doom was amped by Magic and that Sentry was for the most part Unstable

Nothing here mentions the Sentry being unstable nor Doom being amped. Doom has access to magic normally.


- These same Forcefields were able to make doom completely block and negate Attack's from Captain Britian, to the point where he exclaims he "ALMOST" felt them

You have not shown any consistent feats for Captian Britains punches.

- Bonus feat for Doom, Phoenix Level Mind hax

The phoenix has decent mind hax?


- The Defense Systems also tank even a blast from Infinity Gauntlet Thanos with killing intent at point blank.

This Thanos turned off all of his awareness and amps. This is not full powered IG Thanos by any means.

- Also able to tank hits from galactus and absorb his power with his defense system, who in this comic, was a threat all creation, all realities known and unknow , and could end all of existence with a mere thought , also Doom mentions how the Cosmic Cube (2-A) was mere fraction of that Galactus' power.

That is a starving Galactus. If that was the Doom I think it is, isn't that secret wars Doom? If the cosmic cube is a fraction of Galactus' power, that would be a huge upgrade for Starving Galactus I believe.

- During What if? Siege, Issue 200, it directly states that if the Sentry had the full power of the Void, he would have destroyed the universe , every god, hero and villian, which would include Galactus as a bare minimum (I would say it includes the likes of Uatu, Captain Britian, Phoenix, etc.)

It definitely does not say this at all. Thor and Odin are considered gods, which are consistently below Galactus in all of their showings.


The entire post seems like misinterpretation.


- The Void states that he is the biggest thread to ever face the earth, and the strongest hero, again more consistent galactus and captain britian scaling. (Infinity Gauntlet aswell btw)

- He was able to contain the energies of a destablized cosmic cube in his earlier years, sentry has gotten far stronger since then.

- Absorbing Man, who could absorb the powers of a Cosmic Cube, Odin, Galactus, Power which can destroy scarlet witch, wiccan and Dormammu, couldn't handle Sentry giving him all his power and basically collapsed on himself, even with a mere fraction, he flat out states he thinks Sentry is GOD himself with these powers.

- House of M was nothing in comparison to what Sentry could cause.

- A casual psychic outbreak from Sentry could "cause another House of M"

- The most powerful being the wolverine has met, which Includes Exitar and Life-Force Doom, who stated the power of the beyonder is "nothing in comparison to that of the Life Force" I could go on and on about how else this would include but this seems fine.

- Rogue states the same, putting Sentry atleast far above omega level mutants like Legion, FR, Phoenix Jean, etc.
 
Just a note that Captain Britain is generally treated as comparable to average Marvel 4-B powerhouses, not remotely on a level with Galactus.

I still agree with Kappatalism.
 
@Ant that's mostly due to him holding back, context or not having enough confidence.

@Kappa

- That's nitpicking ONE of the scans, when we clearly see in all of the others the dude's defense systems get destroyed, also, force fields are still a thing regardless of it being an unknown energy system, you get that right? and Iron man himself has stated in multiple occasions sentry would turn the guy to scrap.

Stable, Unstable, doesn't matter, it still scales, this refutes nothing and yeah, Doom DOES have magic, but he doesn't always use it, I was just using "amped" to reference something beyond ONLY his tech.

Everything you said got refuted, the consistency is there.

What? The Phoenix itself is a abstract universal consciousness, It doesn't have to have its own mind hax for it to be a nice feat.

No, that wasn't it, you quite literally see thanos with the infinity gauntlet and them trying to take it away from him my guy.

Can you try reading the comic for context first BEFORE using the context to debunk anything? yeah, his cosmic awareness got removed by himself, that's it, that's the only thing he removed, he literally uses the gems right after saying he removed his cosmic senses. All we saw weakened was his senses and dura, hell, even thanos' infamous rubber wolverine feat comes after the statement.

Prove he's starving, please, and we know that power was still multiversal anyway.

Odin was atleast relative to a well fed galactus during their fight, he was outclassed, but he still had a legitimate mental fight and his headbutt did damage galactus. Also, it's pretty easy to deductively prove that Galactus would eventually be taken down by the Void, as he needs planets for substance, so it would come along that he would try stopping the Void, which the watcher exclaims no one within that specific reality could do.

Hey, you're the one who didn't even know the context they were using, no misinterpretations here, from my side atleast, lol.

Y did u copy paste the other half of my comment and not say anything
 
It clearly says it cannot defend against unknown energy, not because it is powerful.

that's not what's insinuated in the scan at all, nowhere does doom's shield have any invulnerability towards energy he's never encountered before whatsoever. this conclusion is at best your own head-canon. Secondly, the statement is saying his defence system cannot defend against the unknown energy of Sentry not that it couldn't defend against it because it was unknown. Doom's defence can defence against energy sources he's encountering for the first time before so your conclusion isn't supported whatsoever.


The entire post seems like a misinterpretation.


you haven't portrayed that at all, all you've done is nitpick minor scans that just act as supporting evidence and targeting those. you're not attacking or presenting any misinterpretation of anything rather just introducing your own means of going about things


you've still have yet to come with a refute for any of these


- The Void states that he is the biggest threat to ever face the earth, and the strongest hero, again more consistent galactus and captain britian scaling. (Infinity Gauntlet aswell btw)

- He was able to contain the energies of a destablized cosmic cube in his earlier years, sentry has gotten far stronger since then.

- Absorbing Man, who could absorb the powers of a Cosmic Cube, Odin, Galactus, Power which can destroy scarlet witch, wiccan and Dormammu, couldn't handle Sentry giving him all his power and basically collapsed on himself, even with a mere fraction, he flat out states he thinks Sentry is GOD himself with these powers.

- House of M was nothing in comparison to what Sentry could cause.

- A casual psychic outbreak from Sentry could "cause another House of M"

- The most powerful being the wolverine has met, which Includes Exitar and Life-Force Doom, who stated the power of the beyonder is "nothing in comparison to that of the Life Force" I could go on and on about how else this would include but this seems fine.

- Rogue states the same, putting Sentry atleast far above omega level mutants like Legion, FR, Phoenix Jean, etc.
 
@Hykuu

If the forcefields are not designed to keep out the unknown source, nothing will be stopped.

His magic is not apart of his tech, so why is that an amp?

You saying its refuted isn't a refutation in and of itself

The pheonix force should have feats to say otherwise. Galactus has feats of resisting people like Odin and Moondragon(with mindstone) and Thanos together, along with passively resisting amped professor X.

the IG story fight starts with him turning it off. Otherwise thor, ironman, and all of the others needs to 2-A.

In all stories galactus is starving unless otherwise noted. He was in the middle of building his machine to feed.

Odin was oneshot by Galactus in their fight. His headbutt cracked Galactus' armor which is designed ONLY to hold in the energy that galactus is.

You have to post context, not scans with words that are misinterpretations.
 
Many Marvel characters have somewhat consistent high end feats where they're a lot stronger than normally or how they're portrayed in guidebooks, so that explains all the scans he's found (granted, much of it seems rather current, and this consistent inconsistency in characters' power levels comes mostly from the early 2000s onwards). I guess I'd say those are worth adding to their respective pages, at least in the Feats sections, and marked as high end feats.

However, normally I don't see Sentry being depicted as such a powerful character. He is powerful, sure, but not obscenely so. Even moreso for Captain Britain, but he's not a character I've read about in a long time.
 
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