Marvel Cosmics Upgrade (Including Sentry and Statement Analysis)

[Antvasima]

@Seed

From what we have seen, what is being referred to is Franklin helping to re-create the regular Marvel multiverse, by restoring the universes one-by-one, and using similar methods afterwards. That is not very impressive, and even if something more was intended, we have no way to determine the scale.

@Dark-Carioca

I do not notice any removed post of yours here:

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3521463?action=history&sort=of&page=2

Perhaps you took more than 20 minutes to write it, and it automatically did not send because of it?

 

[JohnCenaNation]

R.I.P Solar System level Marvel Comics fodders, we will miss you.

 

[Hykuu]

As far as I see, 7 people agree, with ant and kappa being the only 2 disagreeing (Kappa did get shut down soo)

Though, as ant suggested, the upgrades wouldn't be applied unless extremely reliable and knowledgable members such as sandman, POTM, etc. leave a comment here.

by the way, nothing about the statement seed posted can be discredited in terms of canon, it all isn't contradicted and is constantly supported by several comics

 

[Hykuu]

R.I.P Solar System level Marvel Comics fodders, we will miss you.

Lol, but sentry wouldn't scale to anyone at all, people like thor, silver surfer, etc. would stay at their own tiers.

 

[Hykuu]

Anyways, I will summarize all the upgrades if anyone is sorta stuck on what the upgrade is meant to be here.

- Captain Britian will have a profile made, with 2 keys Base, Holding Back/No Confidence Amps = 4-B Full Power, Full Confidence = Atleast 2-A, Likely Far Higher

- Franklin Richards gets even more justification and is most likely High 1-B aswell, which is a given with captain britian scaling.

- Doctor Doom has forcefields capable of casually tanking his attacks Doctor Doom also has an extra feat for his mind hax, which is mind haxxing the Dark Phoenix.

- Sentry scales to this by negging Doom, and having some statements which imply he scales to Britian.

- He also scales due to Phoenix Scaling, some statements which put him above the likes of legion, or child franklin to an extent, withlegion threatening the fabric of the multiverse, he is also capable of beating nate grey, or atleast going one on one with him, who is consistently 2-A, Pre or Post Shaman.

- Void scales to consuming beings like galactus, odin, the watchers, etc. and was completely superior to the likes of Doom, Reed even when they had prep. He also negged Loki, who had the power of all magic on earth + strange's power, and even before he got the amp of all magic on earth he was a threat to yggdrasil and odin.

- Deathseed consistently scales above Post Retcon Beyonder, Scarlet Witch, Phoenix, Exitar, etcetera.

- Odin himself should be upgraded to 2-A if Mephisto and Dormammu are, it's extremely consistent. The threads and blogs with the scans were linked in the thread.

Anycase anyone missed some of these, and said they agree without noticing but realized there is something here they disagree with, please speak up (Assuming there aren't any further disagreements by knowledgable members). Otherwise all these changes would be applied (With Sentry atleast getting a 2-A with reality warping key)

 

[Antvasima]

Well, my apologies for being blunt, but regular members agreeing about this type of massive upgrade, for a setting that is defined by extremely inconsistent relative power-levels and severe outliers, is not remotely sufficient to push through the change. You need evaluations from several highly informed and/trusted staff and other members, such as Matthew Schroeder, Sandman31, Kepekley23, Sera EX, Eficiente, PrinceOfTheMorning, and Ultima Reality.

Also, in modern Marvel comicbooks statements such as "the most powerful I have ever encountered" are a dime a dozen unproven flowery speech hyperbole, that more often than not are due to extremely uninformed writers such as Brian Bendis, combined with editors who don't do their jobs.

 

[Hykuu]

Ant, that's how you view it, there is a reason you asked me to initially contact them and they are on the knowledgable members list. But yeah, I did already say that the upgrades won't be applied until "highly informed and trusted staff or other members" evaluate the thread.

It's supported by feats, stated twice and not contradicted, also, why are you trying to take shots at marvel instead of the actual scans? Bendis is "Uninformed" how? The editors aren't doing their jobs because? and that would apply here? It just seems like you are making this much more deep than it really is, the law of non-contradiction is your friend.

 

[Antvasima]

Have you contacted ALL of the people that I just mentioned?

Bendis has generally not had any concern for disrespectig the history of and tearing down anything he is involved in and replacing it with his own biases and structures in their stead, and has admitted himself that he does not know much about Marvel history. He is the writer equivalent of a wrecking ball. The editors have recurrently not stopped contradictions, severe mischaracterisations, or continuity errors from the writers that they are dependent on in recent years, or bothered to keep the timeline between different types of comicbooks particularly coherent, and Marvel in general has almost no respect for its own history anymore since Sana Amanat took control, so I have even more limited trust for sudden claims of being "the most powerful ever", without any reliable evidence and comparisons, than I would have if Marvel was not the king of outliers to start with.

Anyway, this is derailment, so we should drop the subject.

 

[Hykuu]

I did aswell

Okay, we can drop it

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thanks.

 

[The_Tetromino_King]

seeems good i agree

 

[LordTracer]

- Odin himself should be upgraded to 2-A if Mephisto and Dormammu are, it's extremely consistent. The threads and blogs with the scans were linked in the thread.

If I may give my two cents on this, 2-A Odin is fine. However, I don't think he should be scaled to Dormammu. Dormammu consistently scales to Abstract level beings far beyond Odin, namely Eternity and the Celestials.

 

[Hykuu]

I am aware, but far earlier in his publication, dormammu exclaimed that he is equal to Odin, he was still multiversal+ at that point due to the dark dimension though. I agree with dormammu eventually far surpassing odin due to perma power ups and absorptions he's gained.

 

[Dark-Carioca]

@Antvasima

It says it got removed

https://i.imgur.com/QL868Tw.png

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

@Antvasima

That comic described Multiverse as being on a Tier 1 scale, there was no "All Universes" or "One Universe at a time" lowball in that comic , because they only mentioned Multiversal to described things such as "Multiversal Living Tribunal", which seemingly due to what TLT governs the entire MU and not just "All Realities" is why "Multiverse" equals Tier 1 here and nothing else. We don't know, hence why we can't really use anything in the past to justify this statement.

Also we have direct confirmation now that Ka'dmon was canon being via revealed he was actually Oldfather Adam Ka'dmon , who was canon from the Biblic Saga to Current Man-Thing, which directly states his entire saga is canon and thusly the feats from the Falen Stars can be applied..

 

[LordTracer]

Yeah, I know about that, that statement seems strange to me though because even in his weakest incarnation, Dormammu was able to at least briefly fight Eternity and he was nearing the Celestials already (he wasn't quite there yet, but he was close, according to Strange).

 

[Antvasima]

@Dark-Carioca

I think that was a comment from somebody else.

 

[Hykuu]

Yeah, I know about that, that statement seems strange to me though because even in his weakest incarnation, Dormammu was able to at least briefly fight Eternity and he was nearing the Celestials already (he wasn't quite there yet, but he was close, according to Strange).

I guess classic odin can do the same? Lol seems pretty strange I agree, also mephisto directly stated odin is equal to him in thunderstriker I think it was issue 14/15/16, one of em. Same comic where him and hela were going to cause omniversal armageddon which atleast made raganork "pale in comparison".

There are also scans which imply 2-A Yggdrasil

Btw, thoughts on the thread as a whole?

 

[LordTracer]

The issue would be that a heavily amped Classic Odin was pretty much nothing to the Celestials, Dormammu being near them in power should put him quite a bit above Odin. However, Odin being equal to Mephisto makes sense, as Mephisto in his realm was able to stalemate Galactus. Like I said, 2-A Odin is perfectly reasonable, but him being equal to Dormammu is kinda contradictory to Classic Odin and the Skyfathers' usual portrayal.

As for the rest of the thread, I agree with pretty much everything, though I noticed some characters being used for 2-A scaling (for example, Scarlet Witch and Phoenix) aren't 2-A at the moment and would need to be upgraded as well.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

@Tracer Does that include the statements I made above in the thread or ?

 

[Antvasima]

It is very hard to form long and/or indiscriminate scaling chains for Marvel without ending up with lots of very exaggerated statistics as a result.

 

[Hykuu]

@LordTracer yeah, my bad, he doesn't really scale to dormammu, but he should still be 2-A nonetheless.

Phoenix Force is 2-A, SW should be 2-A due to the nature of chaos magic but I guess that's for another thread, the point would still stand btw

 

[LordTracer]

Oh, you meant the Phoenix Force. I thought you meant a Phoenix avatar (Cyclops and Jean should be 2-A, tbh).

 

[Hykuu]

Jean obviously, but why cyclops? Unless you're referencing god doom which would be higher or something

 

[LordTracer]

Cyclops was able to fight Wanda and Hope with Wanda's powers (iirc), so he would be 2-A as well.

 

[Sorari]

Isn't the Omniverse in Exlies just the Marvel UK's name for the Multiverse? Marvel and Marvel UK have different cosmologies, or at least they did under Alan Moore.

 

[Sorari]

But Captain Brittain did become the King-Protector of the Omniverse, so he should be at least 2-A. I would even say he should be the same tier as the Living Tribunal, maybe a notch lower, because he serves the same roll.

 

[Hykuu]

Cyclops was able to fight Wanda and Hope with Wanda's powers (iirc), so he would be 2-A as well.

I see.

@Sorari yeah, they are basically interchangeable

As a heads up for everyone, me and ultima talked on discord and decided to remove the "likely far higher" for captain britian

 

[Maxnumb231]

why is it that you guys removed it for?

 

[Hykuu]

Not enough concrete evidence

 

[Antvasima]

We really need input from PrinceOfTheMorning and Sandman31 here. They are our main experts.

 

[Antvasima]

Are you certain that you have asked '''everybody''' that I recommended?

 

[The_Impress]

Hykuu has messaged both Sandman and PrinceOfTheMorning regarding the topic very early on, they are yet to reply however, (With Prince having no activity for the past two days)

I can message them once more if you'd like.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Captain Britain himself being 2-A seems pretty damn fine, from what I've seen in the scans. But, I don't think a "likely far higher" rating is really warranted here, mainly since the Starlight Citadel being pan-dimensional and encompassing all planes in the omniverse most likely refers to it containing all Universes in itself, as said planes of existence are pretty clearly universes and not higher dimensions or higher realms of existence, as seen with these scans.

The fact that the former even has Captain Britain using fourth dimensional pulses to stabilize the Multiverse through Excalibur (by making it vibrate across every plane) also pretty much seals the deal on that.

This sca, meanwhile, isn't talking about spatial dimensions either. The stuff about Branes is referring to Brane Cosmology, which posits the Universe is contained in a higher-dimensional membrane within a larger space (note how the "boundaries" between dimensions are even called branes here). It's talking about how the Chaoswave was going to break down the membranes between realities and **** up existence.

From what I've seen, Sentry being 2-A with Reality Warping is mostly fine. The scan where he lifts Exitar doesn't show much about how he compared to him in sheer physical power. He just lifted him and flew away, unless he was the one who defeat the guy or smth.

I will look at the Seed stuff later.

 

[Antvasima]

Hykuu has messaged both Sandman and PrinceOfTheMorning regarding the topic very early on, they are yet to reply however, (With Prince having no activity for the past two days)

I can message them once more if you'd like.

Thank you. That would be good, yes. You can tell them that I would appreciate the help.

 

[Antvasima]

@Ultima

Thank you for taking the time to check through the scans.

 

[Hykuu]

"From what I've seen, Sentry being 2-A with Reality Warping is mostly fine. The scan where he lifts Exitar doesn't show much about how he compared to him in sheer physical power. He just lifted him and flew away, unless he was the one who defeat the guy or smth."

Yeah, I am aware, the point was to showcase how far he is above the rest of the heroes and villians on earth. By the way, since that is the only thing you targeted, does that mean the rest is fine or?? since there is tons of scaling for a complete stable sentry being 2-A

 

[Ultima_Reality]

I admiteddly don't know much about the Sentry, but from what I've seen, if Odin and co. become 2-A (which I have no opinion on), then him at Full Power / as the Void could be straight up 2-A too, yeah.

 

[The_Impress]

Thank you. That would be good, yes. You can tell them that I would appreciate the help.

I have done so.

 

[Kappatalism]

No one got shutdown but you. Your only refutations were that you interpreted it right and that was it. Hardly a refutation. They aren't consistent enough to get the upgrade at all. The best you can hope for is different keys, which I think everyone agreed to being fine. But the scaling you are using was debunked.