Ichiban Ushiro no Daimaou CRT

Ionliosite · Sep 1, 2019

After around 2 months of promising this CRT, I realized I don't know how to make one. The only time I tried creating a CRT in the past, it was totally ignored (aside from a nice but unhelpful comment from Ant). So, given how things are, I'm just going to post a blog with quotes and a draft of Akuto's new profile.

Ignore this, don't open it if possible:

Also, here's the explanation of the 1-A cosmology I gave Udlmaster on my wall, just in case you're wondering how high into 1-A Akuto is:

First or all, to understand Akuto's power, we need to talk about stories and storytellers. And storyteller is an extra-universal god who creates a story. Each story contains infinite layers, each of these layers perceiving the one below them as fiction. That means storyteller create High 1-B structures all the time. Each storyteller mentioned on the series has been shown to be able to create an infinite amount of stories, so an infinite amount of High 1-B structures.

Story density is what makes Akuto so high into 1-A. A story with a lower density will be perceived a fiction by a story with a higher density, which means even the story with the second lowest story should perceive the one with the lowest as fiction, and this process repeats ad infinitum across all stories created by the extra-universal gods.

But it's even more than that. Each layer contains an infinite amount of universes, and each universe contains an storyteller, which means even a single layer already contains an infinite amount of stories which also contain an inifnite amount of layers, which means even a single layer is already 1-A.

There's an inifinite amount of stories, each contaning an infinite amount of layers, each layer contains an infinite amount of universes, each universe contains an storyteller, each storyteller creates an infinite amount of stories, and the process repeats ad infinitum.

And then there's Hiroshi fused with Bouichirou, whose story density is so high he perceives all this, which is Akuto's creation, as fiction, as merely a piece of paper on an infinitely vast room. Hiroshi/Bouichirou said that despite this, he's nothing compared to Akuto, as Akuto makes him feel "worthless, like a side character compared to a protagonist, like a background character" compared to an almighty god. That's Akuto's first 1-A key, then there's the Void Body.

The Void Body is when Akuto gave all the souls of his creation to The Law of Identity, becoming a resident of the Anti-Universe due to being freed from the creation of TLOI. The difference between this key and the last is huge, I said it is as big as the one between a 3D being a 1-A being, as DontTalkDT corrected me when I said it was 5D.

After a long debate, we're currently going based off the cosmology propused Matt on this post: https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3612613#170

Note: I had a chat with DontTalkDT regarding the verse, and we agreed on NOT ranking the Computer Gods as 1-A, since beyond a single statement (which is taken totally out of context, because with context is clear it isn't talking about 1-A stuff), there's nothing supporting them being 1-A; if anything, the story shows them clearly below Multiversal, and maybe they aren't even Universal, hence we settled on a Unknown rating.

Hykuu · Sep 2, 2019

"I said it is as big as the one between a 3D being a 1-A being, as DontTalkDT corrected me when I said it was 5D."

I agree with everything, but this? seems like conjecture

Antvasima · Sep 2, 2019

You should ask the members listed in the Ichiban Ushiro no Daimaou verse page to comment here, especially DontTalkDT and DarkLK. As long as they are fine with this, I am as well.

Siperri123 · Sep 2, 2019

missing a lot and you misunderstand the structure of the verse, btw akuto has 3 levels of 1-A.

Ionliosite · Sep 2, 2019

Hykuu said:
"I said it is as big as the one between a 3D being a 1-A being, as DontTalkDT corrected me when I said it was 5D."

I agree with everything, but this? seems like conjecture

That is based on the fact the Afterlife is a layer on TLOI's story. I said it was 5D, but DontTalk said there was no reason to assume that, and given neither Hiroshi nor Bouchirou seemed to be different there, we agree saying it was 3D compared to TLOI. The Void Body is free from TLOI's story, trascending all layers of that story. That's were it came from.

Ionliosite · Sep 2, 2019

Siperri123 said:
missing a lot and you misunderstand the structure of the verse, btw akuto has 3 levels of 1-A.

Tell me what's wrong in your oppinion. If you're going to mention the Computer Gods I think I left pretty clear they aren't going to be anything close to 1-A.

DontTalkDT · Sep 2, 2019

As you mentioned before yourself, the calcs for the AP & Dura ratings need to be made before the profile can actually be revised.

To maybe do a few minor nitpicks, for the sake of the official explanations:

Stories don't need to have infinite layers. Stories ca have infinite layers, but ultimately one can think of a story just as one can of a verse of fiction. The extent varies from story to story.

Likewise it's not like every story needs to contain infinite universes or for each of this universes to have a storyteller. However, there ca be such stories, which of course means that Akuto creating all possible stories includes stories such as these.

As we see on the example of the story all but the last volume takes place in, stories can also contain higher dimensions and things that remain even after all dimensions are destroyed.

Greater topic is that I'm not sure about Hiroshi fused with Bouichirou, aka Brave for short, is 1-A on his own. Once Brave is given the position as new Law of Identity he definitely is 1-A, but before that it is unknown IMO. Due to timetravel they were mostly uninfluenced of the stuff Akuto did in the afterlife, but I don't think they demonstrated having any power over it.

And the difference between normal Akuto and Void Body Akuto is very debatable. He is in that state very short and we know very few about it. Seeing as that state comes from a connection with TLoI it might be LoI level. Might be. More than a possibly shouldn't be given here.

Hykuu · Sep 2, 2019

Void Body became a being on the same level of transcendence as TLOI, atleast that's how I took it

When he realized the Law of Identity had to know what he had done in the afterlife, he began sweating. She was likely referring to what had occurred between him, Junko, Fujiko, and Yoshie.

"Um…well…about that…"

He grew flustered, but she started laughing.

"But I forgive you." She held his hand. "We'll be together forever now, right?"

"Not even I know what our life will be like from now on."

"Hmm. Where we're going now is where all stories end. It is the place mankind will continue to strive for from now on."

"It seems so. I don't know the details, but it basically means we'll get married for real."

Keena sounded excited and began the process without waiting for Akuto.

That ritual brought both the stories and one's body down to zero and created a void.

Creating that lower body known as a void body was the first step toward becoming a being not of this world.

It was s.p.a.ce with no time.

It was a place where the laws of physics came to an end.

It was beyond causality.

It was casting aside one's earthly form.

It was the salvation of all.

Keena took Akuto's hand.

"What does it feel like to be saved?"

"I've never experienced it, so I wouldn't know. Well, we'll know soon enough."

"It must feel like binding with Akuto-sama on the most fundamental level!"

Akuto smiled and his own physical body rapidly shrank as he was taken into Keena.

Finally, Keena turned inside out and disappeared into the new land that was the anti-universe.

All that remained was emptiness within emptiness. That emptiness did not even contain words. In other words, a new Empty Universe had been created.

But let us move back in time a bit.

In a fraction of an instant, the smallest unit of time that could be written of as time, this conversation took place.

A single being remained in the Empty Universe.

I think it is made pretty clear they are either became one or got "married" on a higher plane of existence beyond every single story, one on the same level as the law of identity

Antvasima · Sep 2, 2019

It would be useful to ask DarkLK to give input here.

Siperri123 · Sep 2, 2019

No, The void body is only a first step to survive in the anti-universe, beings in the anti-universe are just residents of a true God.

Ionliosite · Sep 2, 2019

Hykuu said:
snip

That's more or less how I look at it too, and we know TLOI had a story of its own, and the Afterlife was just one of its many layers. So the difference between regular 1-A Akuto and the Void Body must be huge. I still think TLOI, given all the souls absorbed and as the creator of the Anti-Universe of which Akuto now is a resident, should be above him.

Ionliosite · Sep 2, 2019

Antvasima said:
It would be useful to ask DarkLK to give input here.

I contacted Dark already.

Ionliosite · Sep 2, 2019

DontTalkDT said:
As you mentioned before yourself, the calcs for the AP & Dura ratings need to be made before the profile can actually be revised.

I have requested the calcs 2 times already, should I try again?

DontTalkDT said:
Greater topic is that I'm not sure about Hiroshi fused with Bouichirou, aka Brave for short, is 1-A on his own. Once Brave is given the position as new Law of Identity he definitely is 1-A, but before that it is unknown IMO. Due to timetravel they were mostly uninfluenced of the stuff Akuto did in the afterlife, but I don't think they demonstrated having any power over it.

I honestly think Brave should be 1-A due to this quote regarding his position compared to the Extra-universal Gods:

"The birth of the universe resembled the birth of stories. If the universe really is multiple stories, then there must be countless beings like me outside of it."
"If so, there should be a spectrum," said Bouichirou confidently.
"A spectrum? What's that?" asked Akuto.
"It means they are divided into multiple levels. You could call it their story density. Think of them as having become stories to varying degrees."
"And we've done so to a much higher degree?"
"We know that the world is fictional. Doesn't that seem like a very high degree?'
Bouichirou's comment brought something to Akuto's mind.
The story of interference from outside the universe was centered on not perceiving the world as fictional. That was a story based on the assumption that one lived as only a single incarnation.
"I feel like I only came to understand myself once I saw the outside," agreed Akuto.
"But when you get down to it, even the extra-universal gods are fictional. They merely cannot distinguish between god, mankind, and ghost. Only once you inform the higher being and create an enclosure within a single universe can you make a clear distinction between the three. That allows you to understand who it is you are inside."

DontTalkDT · Sep 3, 2019

Ionliosite said:
I have requested the calcs 2 times already, should I try again?

Looked in the Calc Request thread. You mean these, yes? I will just calc them myself over the next few days.

I'm not so sure about Brave. Sure he has plently of knowledge, but Marine could participate in that conversation as well. In general Akuto called Hiroshi not unlike he could call any other person to that space, so I don't think having this conversation requires a high tier.

Ionliosite · Sep 3, 2019

But then, Marine was just a ghost, unlike Brave. Aside from Akuto, only Hiroshi and Bouichirou existed in the Afterlife due to being chosen by TLOI:

"The afterlife exists on the inside and we can think of it as existing inside the demon king."
"Yeah," agreed Brave. "I get it. We all died and were resurrected. But it was the demon king that resurrected us."
"That is how I understand it. The world has been reconstructed as data. Just as the former computer gods attempted to do."
"Then why did he erase it and try to redo it? If he's on the level of a god, why didn't he accept the world he created?"
"Based on his words, I assume it be because that was a world of an eternal ending."
Bouichirou nodded as if to say he understood the feeling.
"I don't really get it."
Brave had been frowning this whole time.
"He realized there is no story in satisfying his own desires."
"I realized that before he did. Otherwise, I would have been living with my girlfriend in this world."
"We cannot do that. That is simply the type of existence we are."
Hearing that, Brave finally changed his expression.
"Existence? You explained that earlier, didn't you?"
"If the people of the afterlife are fictional characters, we alone exist. The two of us and the demon king."
"The two of us and the demon king?"
Brave was taken aback.
"We may have been chosen by the Law of Identity. We were chosen as side characters, but we were still given important parts to play."
Bouichirou's expression was oddly calm.
"I do feel like destiny is playing a hand in things. And we weren't wrapped up in what just happened."
"The demon king is redoing the story itself and he will likely study the result by using the people…no, the characters of the afterlife."
That was Bouichirou's conclusion and Brave accepted it.
"But there's no way he can do that."
"Yes. As he did not succeed the first time, he cannot succeed the second time unless someone else's power is at work."
"And that's what we'll do?" asked Brave in shock.
Bouichirou nodded.
"You have already made up your mind, haven't you? It is only natural that it be the hero who saves the world."
"But how?"
"There is a way. We will enter the demon king's world. We will enter, but we will interfere without being incorporated into it. We can travel on the path of history that the Law of Identity has created

Hykuu · Sep 4, 2019

I agree with everything, after re-reading the novel, the whole infinitely layered transcendence ordeal for even afterlife akuto is really ******* strong, and then the void body is a whole other level, he would probably be stronger than hajun after this, or atleast TLOI would be

Maxnumb231 · Sep 4, 2019

Can I get a statement that a layer is 1-A or qualified as the latter?

Maxnumb231 · Sep 4, 2019

Hykuu said:
I agree with everything, after re-reading the novel, the whole infinitely layered transcendence ordeal for even afterlife akuto is really ******* strong, and then the void body is a whole other level, he would probably be stronger than hajun after this, or atleast TLOI would be

RIP well **** 1-A battles man.

Antvasima · Sep 4, 2019

I trust DontTalkDT's sense of judgement, but it would also be useful if somebody asks DarkLK to comment here.

Maxnumb231 · Sep 4, 2019

If u dont mind can u show a quote of a single layer being 1-A as the CRT said a single layer is 1-A. Thanks

Maxnumb231 · Sep 4, 2019

If u don't mind

Ionliosite · Sep 4, 2019

Maxnumb231 said:
If u dont mind can u show a quote of a single layer being 1-A as the CRT said a single layer is 1-A. Thanks

I think that's explained on the OP. Each layer contains infinite universes, and each universe has a storyteller that crrates a story that also have those dimensional layers, which essentially means layers contain infinite dimensional structures within them.

Hykuu · Sep 4, 2019

that's not 1A that's high 1B

anyways, we know that layers also encompass beings who view dimensions as fiction due to the trippy hierarchy, so they would still be 1A

Siperri123 · Sep 4, 2019

Maxnumb231 said:
If u dont mind can u show a quote of a single layer being 1-A as the CRT said a single layer is 1-A. Thanks

not a layer is 1-A a layer containing 1-A structures like computer gods, great network and unicellular organisms. In the same a layer also have strong and weak hierarchy.

Maxnumb231 · Sep 4, 2019

not a layer is 1-A a layer containing 1-A structures like computer gods, great network and unicellular organisms. In the same a layer also have strong and weak hierarchy.

Thats why i would the quote for it if possible but from it seem he already explained it.

Siperri123 · Sep 4, 2019

I can summarize the hierarchy in the verse but I don't quote because the eng translation has many inaccuracies. As darklk said it was two different versions.

Ionliosite · Sep 4, 2019

There is no evidence for the Computer Gods being 1-A, in fact, the story constantly contradicts them having any kind of reality warping abilities, shows they clearly aren't multiversal, and that Akuto killed one of them with an explosion on Volume 5.

Siperri123 · Sep 4, 2019

Ionliosite said:
There is no evidence for the Computer Gods being 1-A, in fact, the story constantly contradicts them having any kind of reality warping abilities, shows they clearly aren't multiversal, and that Akuto killed one of them with an explosion on Volume 5.

they're not 1-A because of the lack of AP, and akuto kill is just their terminal. and even just that the terminal was 2-A.

Ionliosite · Sep 4, 2019

How is the terminal 2-A? I literally see no reason to assume such tier.

Siperri123 · Sep 4, 2019

Ionliosite said:
How is the terminal 2-A? I literally see no reason to assume such tier.

Did you know that the defense system inside the terminal is an alternative dimension?.

Ionliosite · Sep 4, 2019

Did you know that the defense system inside the terminal is an alternative dimension?.

Yes, but that isn't 2-A. DontTalkDT and I had a debate about the size of said dimension. I originally said 3-A, but thanks to DT, we accepted it has no known size, and thus its rating is unknown.

Siperri123 · Sep 4, 2019

Did you know that the defense system inside the terminal is an alternative dimension?.

Yes, but that isn't 2-A. DontTalkDT and I had a debate about the size of said dimension. I originally said 3-A, but thanks to DT, we accepted it has no known size, and thus its rating is unknown.

I remember Darklk explained but you didn't finish it, right?.

for them there is no particular difference between the real and information structures, since conversion is possible there.

Ionliosite · Sep 4, 2019

I didn't finish what?

That still isn't 2-A, left alone 1-A.

Siperri123 · Sep 4, 2019

The gods simulated worlds according to the infinite cardinal depth of infinity.

Siperri123 · Sep 4, 2019

the amount of information they store itself beyond the dimension.

Ionliosite · Sep 4, 2019

Show me a quote of the gods simulating infinite worlds. I think I know what scene you are talking about but I need to confirm.

Siperri123 · Sep 4, 2019

Ionliosite said:
Show me a quote of the gods simulating infinite worlds. I think I know what scene you are talking about but I need to confirm.

Act 5 chapter 3

Hykuu · Sep 5, 2019

There were also statements of information not being bound by the ideas of space time and infinity, soo

Ionliosite · Sep 5, 2019

Siperri123 said:
Ionliosite said:

Show me a quote of the gods simulating infinite worlds. I think I know what scene you are talking about but I need to confirm.

Click to expand...

Act 5 chapter 3

Just like I tho, you meant this one:

The gods have a will of their own, but they do not possess a body.
That is why they do not possess thought processes centered on a body. They are a contradictory existence that think despite having no true form to think with. It is true they have computer circuits. However, no one knows how many circuits are needed before thought is born. All we know is that a will is born when enough circuits are brought together. You can think of it as similar to how we do not know where one's will is located in the human brain. Their non-body focused thought processes leave them with no distinction between themselves and the outside world, and so they are able to think in terms of the infinite. I do not mean the mathematical concept of infinity. I mean an infinity with infinite cardinal depth. And this means they can arrive at the infinite past for living creatures. The bodiless gods can arrive at the thought processes of single-celled life forms. That is the same as the birth of life and the birth of thought. And thoughts themselves create a universe. Not a scientifically observable universe, mind you. There is a theory saying that this world could have been created five minutes ago and we can never prove otherwise if our memories are false. However, that theory only holds when one has a physical body. Bodiless thoughts invalidate that theory. In other words, the universe exists and time is absolutely irreversible.

This sounds more like abstract existence, non-corporeal physiology, and something that may be omnipresence across the universe to me.

Siperri123 · Sep 5, 2019

Its meaning is to explain the nature of the gods, they think about the infinity of the world, time, dimensions, etc. They simulate everything according to the Cardinal numbers and that thought creates a universe.

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