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[#1 of 10-B] - Little Treasure vs Molecule Man

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Just gonna post what I said in the other thread.

LT's souls (his and the ones of his 8 past incarnations) have a Heaven-Sealing aura that can scare away the will of Allheaven itself. Said will later fought a Half Ancestor Meng Hao, who was already 1-A at that point.

Furthermore, while his body is only human, his souls carry the marks of the Ninth Hex:

" Within that soul was an Immortal Root, and nine sealing marks. That was everything which Meng Hao's clone had cultivated in his life. The eyes of the soul were bright, like that of an innocent infant. That was because all of the memories of the life he had just lived were severed and sealed away deep inside.
[...]

The snow covered his corpse, but it couldn't cover up the soul which flew out of his forehead. As the soul rose up into the sky, it looked back at the burial mound and sighed. Within the soul, it was possible to see that the third sealing mark was shining with radiant light.
"
They're basically part of the Hex itself, and even were what completed it in the end.

" His soul flew out. It, along with the souls of all the other reincarnations, became a beam of light that shot toward the statue in Meng Hao's hand. The light entered the statue, which then glowed brightly. It was now truly complete. "
So, to actually affect them, one should have to be at least comparable to the Hex itself.

For the immeasurable time travel thing, while he doesn't have any explicit feat against that (he was pretty short lived at full power), that is not a super uncommon ability in his verse. People can reach through time to grab people in the past, walk through time, and even the weaker Hexes could blast away a guy's souls that were scattered throughout thousands of years. The Ninth Hex is so broken that other magics just kill themselves when they get near an incomplete version of it:

" As the divine ability appeared, there was a huge crash as the million surrounding stone steles began to crack. Then, to Meng Hao's wide-eyed shock, all of them exploded!
It was as if they had destroyed themselves.

Apparently... in the face of such a matchless divine ability, all of the other divine abilities and magical techniques initiated self-destruction rather than remain in its presence!
"
 
I mean, there's basically no need to think here. At the end of the day MM's abilities top at High 1-B, and this is...1-A. So we got High 1-B vs 1-A. Even after putting aside Speed being actually irrelevant because of the nature of Little Treasure's soul, it's 1-A vs High 1-B.....and as Sped said above you gotta be at leadt comparable to the 9th Hex itself to affect him.


Obvious stomp for Little Treasure.
 
Little Treasure doesn't seem to be able to be stopped by Molecule Man, at least before he is either Sealed away, that is.
 
If the passive in fact works against those with Immeasurable speed then MM has no chance and gets stomped.
 
Well, it's not anything explictly shown, but considering that it scared away Allheaven, the guy who has copied basically every single ability ever shown in the series, just attackig through time really shouldn't work, it's not a particularly uncommon ability in the first place.
 
The Unknown Warrior1 said:
So 1-A hax vs High 1-B hax, pretty obvious who wins
Click to expand...
No. Method of activation is also important. Effect is also important, too. I assume these are insta-incap but higher-D hax won't always win.

Specifically, if you have 1-A passive aura hax at a range of 1 km and the opponent has High 2-A thought-based infinite-range hax, the High 2-A would likely win.
 
Hm, if it's about range Little Treasure wins. Irrevelant vs High Hyperversal.

Stuff affecting his body is irrelevant to Little Treasure as well, he can just come out with his soul.

Immeasurable speed won't work as well. That speed isn't uncommon in the verse, for Low 2-Cs. A being with all the abilities in the verse to 1-A heights....feared Little Treasure and could do nothing to him. His stuff is also superior to all spaces and time, so....

And even disregarding the above, Meng Hao in a much much lower key than his....clone Little Treasure, survived and was fine and dandy after having past versions of him in past periods, past lives, reincarnations, severed from him, here (point 3 of Core Formation, around High 6-A).

My bro Bambu, at the end of the day it truly comes to 1-A vs High 1-B.

The thing is, to win, Molecule Man gotta have at least 1-A hax. Because Little Treasure can fight with his soul (heck he's at his strongest there), and his soul.......can't be killed by anything less than 1-A.
 
Not really debating for MM here man. I don't know the character, don't know the verse, I do know that a High 1-B ability will ragdoll a 10-B as much as a 1-A will. Just like a 9-C bullet to the noggin will kill a normal dude as much as a 9-B will. It's about application at that point m80.
 
Mr. Bambu said:
Not really debating for MM here man. I don't know the character, don't know the verse, I do know that a High 1-B ability will ragdoll a 10-B as much as a 1-A will. Just like a 9-C bullet to the noggin will kill a normal dude as much as a 9-B will. It's about application at that point m80.
Click to expand...
Yea, and I agree. As a 10-B, his body would be rekt by a Tier 9, not to mention High 1-B stuff. But as I said, his body. And that's pretty much irrelevant to him, as he can fight with his Soul. As for his soul, it can't get hurt by pretty much anything less than 1-A.

Sorry I guess I wasn't clear. Take it as his Soul having 1-A Durability basically. You can rip his head off, atomize him, vaporize him, his body would die no arguing that. But again that's irrelevant, as his body isn't even what's discussed here - it's worthless in this fight. As he can just fight as a soul.

Soul which can't get rekt by anything less than 1-A.


I don't know if I'm clear....


Edit : the closest exemple I can give you of a situation like this is Habaki from Masada, where you basically can't definitely kill him unless you kill the Tumor of Hajun or smthing.
 
Unless someone could make a reasonable argument for the other side, LIttle Treasure seems to stomp.
 
So what I'm being told is contradictory. A bit. I don't understand and the explanation is "it just works" which... oddly enough doesn't work. Gonna post this before going to sleep.

So I'm told from this thread that Little Treasure is truly a 10-B with a 1-A soul. I'm not being told why either A. you can't just **** up the body, nothing on the profile explains that, or B. it isn't a separate key for 1-A if the effect of discovering his 1-A powers with his souls literally makes him 1-A potency, 1-A durability, and the soul is effectively all that matters. Why would a High 1-B punch not simply end the affair? This hasn't had any proper discussion into these areas.

Basically, the Soul seems to be its separate entity. It can survive outside of its body and act on its own. So why does his soul not have its own key? If it's literally just... him?
 
Alternative take. If we assume Little Treasure is effectively the 10-B being with a 1-A stand (as it was explained to me, which still doesn't really work since it's still just... him, but as a soul). Why would destroying the 10-B not effectively win? The 1-A ******* up MM afterwards is great and all but defeating that 10-B "shell" is all that is required.

None of the above stuff concerning this makes any sense. I'm strained to put my faith in such votes as a result, even though I know nothing about Molecule Man.
 
Well because he won't be killing Little Treasure, or incapping him.

While LT would do that to MM.

Also seems like you misunderstood the Stand exemple Bamburger XD.
 
Alright, to explain some things:

Meng Hao had these magics called Demon Sealing Hexes. He already had eight, but needed nine for his next power-up. He kept trying to create the ninth, but the will of the Heavens itself kept blocking him from doing so, because the Hex was just too op to exist.

To circumvent that, Meng Hao created a clone to do it for him, Fang Mu. Said clone started with the Hex, managed to make it quite powerful, but only ended up completinh one sealing mark, from a total of nine. Then, he decided to just die and reincarnate, with his next lives completing one mark each. The thing is, the sealing marks were branded on the souls themselves, basically, giving them the power of the Hex itself, and the Heaven Sealing aura it has.

After seven other lives going fine, the last one was Little Treasure, who had to actually carve the Hex out of wood. The will of the Heavens tried to stop him, but he managed to complete the thing.

Physically, he's a normal dude, most of the other reincarnations were, but they have those sealing marks on their souls. He's actually 1-A with both the Hex statue, and with said souls of his nine reincarnations. It doesn't really make sense to make it different keys, since both the body and soul *are* him, he's 10B and 1A at the same time, just with different things, much like MM is 10B with his body, but High 1-B with his powers.

It's just that basically everyone in the verse has the ability of just surviving as a soul outside the body, meaning that killing the body doesn't actually matter that much. People have their bodies destroyed and still stay around as a soul all the time. Even if destroying the 10B "shell" would count as a win for MM as you say, the souls can simply create another body, like all those guys with type 8/9 immortality and Low-Godly regen.

Like I said, it's fine if you don't think that should qualify for the top 10B, but shit like this is all over that list in the first place. ┬»┬»\_(Òâä)_/┬»┬»
 
If the 1-A Soul can create a new body for Little Treasure then he should have Type 9.
 
Nepuko said:
Well because he won't be killing Little Treasure, or incapping him.
While LT would do that to MM.

Also seems like you misunderstood the Stand exemple Bamburger XD.
Click to expand...
But that doesn't work. Little Treasure, the dude, would be dead. What happens to the soul is immaterial. If the soul is literally him, then that's still contradictory, you would need a 1-A key for that. No matter which way you slice it this doesn't work.
 
I mean we have characters that have tier 1 Souls/Minds in their 3-D bodies and it can even grant them smurfy powers.

Example: SCP-682 and The Emperor of Mankind

However while they do have tier 1 Minds/Souls in their 3-D bodies they do have keys for those higher forms.

So I think Little Treasure should have a 1-A key I also think he should get some immoralities (mainly type 9 due to the fact souls can apperently make new bodies) and he shouldnt lose any of his 1-A Hax in his 10-B key.
 
My dude, did you read what Sped wrote above? Please do so if you didn't, I guess you maybe forgot to refresh your page or something.

But that doesn't work. Little Treasure, the dude, would be dead.

No, he wouldn't. For the simple reason that for characters to truly die in the verse, you gotta kill them in body and soul. As Sped said above : "It's just that basically everyone in the verse has the ability of just surviving as a soul outside the body, meaning that killing the body doesn't actually matter that much ". So no, he won't be dead as you mean it bro.


What happens to the soul is immaterial. If the soul is literally him, then that's still contradictory, you would need a 1-A key for that . No matter which way you slice it this doesn't work.

I....don't understand what you mean by this? Wdym what happens to the soul is "immaterial"? And it's not contradictory by any sense. A being in the verse is composed of the Soul and the body (among other shiz). Bodies are being destroyed on a regular basis in the verses, and with Low-Godly it's not a problem. Like, you seem for some reason to consider his body and his soul as 2 separate entities that can't be the same guy at the same time.

What's hard to understand that he's a 10-B in body while his soul has 1-A properties? That's like having a Rusty chest is filled with Diamond, It's like saying : "but it dosen't make sense, either the chest is empty, or the diamond is alone! How can the diamond be in the chest ?"

If you think his soul goes to the afterlife or smthing then no. He can still fight with his soul, and isn't truly considered dead unless his soul is killed. Low-Godly man, Type 2 Immortality, Type 9, whatever. So "immaterial"? If you mean "Non-Corporeal" dont worry it can affect the corporeal.


I mean again if you want to we can changes keys, but it's a problem either way and wouldn't change much because :

-In his 10-B key (if they're separate) he still has all the abilities that would be in his 1-A key. Astral Projection is also a thing...

-if they're fused into 1-A, that's liek disregarding his 10-B body. He's not entirely 1-A, only a part of his being is kinda that, so uh....yea.


I really don't see the problem, I mean we got MM with 3-D body and High 1-B powers. Here we have Part number of your being (body) : 10-B, part number 2 (soul) 1-A.


┬»┬»\_(Òâä)_/┬»┬»
 
I understand that their soul needs to be dead. But that soul can operate as a separate entity. Again just... nothing about this explains why he doesn't have a 1-A key for his soul form. It just seems like 10-B with 1-A for the sake of having 1-A. It doesn't make sense.
 
Because both his body and soul exist at the same time. It's always there, it doesn't cease to exist when it's not out. It's not a transformation or anything, it'll always pop up if his body is destroyed or if he just wants to let it out. It's not about making him 1A, he'd still have it anyway because of his Ninth Hex statue.
 
That's great, but the same can be said for other verses where they still have lesser keys (or in this case, greater) keys. It's still a different form of the same character with wildly, drastically different stats.
 
Keys are for transformations and power-ups afaik, I don't see how this qualifies. The soul is always there, it's not even in some higher plane of existence, it's inside of him. It's just a part of him that is 1A, while another part is 10B, he's both at the same time. That's kind of his thing, just a mortal, but he managed to create a magic that can Seal the Heavens, and said magic is branded into his soul as well.

Like, even if an enemy managed to destroy the body, the soul would just appear anyway. If it wins, then it can just recreate the body without a problem.
 
Keys are for anything. Such as different forms. Such as one for a soul vs physical body.
 
Shouldn't people like MM have other keys for their powers, then? Because he gets High 1B AP and Dura from his powers. The moment he uses those, he ain't his 10B self anymore.

Like, would it apply for LT's hex statue? It has the exact same aura as his souls, and he just carries it around.
 
Tbf MM has High 1-B Statistic Amp.

Anyway just cause he gets the 1-A key doesnt mean he has to get weaker, the 10-B key could still have all the abilities of the 1-A key.

Just look at DnD Gods and their Avatars and True Forms.
 
Powers aren't the same as different forms. If a dude has a physical form with totally different stats than an immaterial form, they both get a key.
 
Don't really see the point when they both exist at the same time and would always be around in any fighting situation. Like, say, what if he wants to summon Fang Mu's soul to fight for him? Would it be a different key as well? Does it go on the 10B or 1A?

But, alright, I guess. We can add the other key for the soul when we make a CRT later.
 
Summons are fine for the same key. But from what I'm being told this is just a 1-A soul version of himself that is for no reason considered one and the same as his 10-B body.
 
The souls are literally him though. Like I said, one part is 10B, the other is 1A, both at the same time, at the same plane of existence, no power-ups involved. Sounds pointless as hell . . .

And Fang Mu is his soul as well, they're the same person, different incarnations. Can he use all his souls in the 10B, except for the one of this specific LT incarnation?
 
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