Possible Overlord upgrades...

Yes, the fire rises...



So i'll try to guess what people will say to keep this CRT short, if you disagree with my points feel free to counter. I'm a-bit wordy but please read (if you're interested).

Argument #1: Nani?! We already have calc for lower tiers, anything else is outlier!

Debunking The Argument: The feat you mean should be fodder hitting a mud summon with [Fireball ] only for it to take 2 fireballs to pulverize it. Using the pulverization value of mud as well as the known volume/size of the construct is correct, that is...until you ignore the fact that it's a living entity with levels and if you've played most RPG then you should know the composition does not matter as everything has a HP value and/or a level in this case both. From god-tiers to fodder these entities' composition is not a deciding factor for it's durability, level is what decides it, composition just plays a part. This is true for the game too:


Level 87: Primal Fire Elemental
Level 87: Primal Water Elemental
Level 87: Primal Air Elemental
Level 87: Primal Earth Elemental
Level 90: Primal Star Elemental

For example the above, you aren't fighting water of that volume, you're fighting a being with it's own stats and at one point after you've depleted it's HP you'll see it disappear.

All you have to do is be of a level to cause harm to them and your continuous attacks translate to depleting it's HP (health points) value, an example would be God tiers Mare and Aura double teaming against a fire elemental. An example of one shotting these entities due to the level gap would be Cocytus decapitating a mud summon and usually in fiction this just takes a portion of the total volume of a water/wet construct but in this verse this is a killing blow. One last thing to mention is that yes, summoned beings are alive depending on how you view life, as they are granted a portion of the summoner's knowledge/thoughts to best act if summoned, for example if the summoner was surrounded by enemies and his/her own teammates, the summoned being would know who to attack.

Argument #2: Lower tiers can hurt god tiers! Aha! Remember Entoma? Now how do you explain that, also she survived Entoma's serious blow!

Debunking The Argument: Inconsequential damage. Entoma could have ignored her but she wouldn't be unscathed and in this case the degree of damage has something we can compare to, which is Evileye who is higher in level than both Gagaran and Entoma. Using Entoma's weakness against her (bug spray spell) rather than using other spells, which is pretty much milking extra HP points from Entoma while also rendering her abilities useless as her bugs are one shotted by the spell. Even with that we had a time-skip so how many were used are unknown, if you think Gagaran's strikes can shave of even 5% of Entoma's HP then you're madman, share some of that madness


Also Entoma's serious blow cut through armor and flesh, the first blow was described to be a minor while the second strike was not and both were undodgeable by Gagaran, as it was stated that she was unable to avoid her serious blow. Then Gagaran uses her killing move against Entoma, then author goes out of his way to state she received no damage from blocking her blows and it was performed just through her physical strength.

Now that recounting those events are out of the way, Entoma is a [Entomancer] her physical abilities from that short exchange would put her above Gagaran but probably not on par with the level 33 Ainz. She uses bugs to fight for her while she uses talismans, can she oneshot Gagaran? Yes, as Tia did a suicidal move to save Gagaran from the blow of the strongest bug in Entoma's possession which was the [Thousand Lash/whips Bug], whether or not she could survive that was stated in the same sentence. Now that that's out of the way, her bugs don't scale to her in terms of durability or AP for her level, as they are one shotted by Evileye while also doing low AP for someone of her level to Tia and Gagaran, of-course this doesn't include her strongest bug (in terms of AP). Is Entoma combat oriented? She's a support type among her sisters.

Minor Argument 3: Lizardmen are fodder! Let's skip them!

Debunking The Argument: How dare you...Through a ritual/ceremony the druid's (plural) combined powers can manipulate the clouds, anything beyond that (storm generation) is above them. These tier 2 casters can do the equivalent of a single tier 4 manipulating/creating clouds.

Feat 1:https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Muchacho_mrm/Cloud_moving/clearing
Feat 2: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Muchacho_mrm/Cloud_Creation

Yeah, i'll just head onto dreamland. I'll come back to the replies later

This should be interesting!

I'll give some of my thoughts tomorrow

Adding to the argument Gagaran can harm Entoma, LSirLancelotDuLacl explained it very well in this post,

Problem is that by MMO rules, and this is many times just not followed at all in game based anime, even a pretty low character can very much hurt you - is just that they are likely gonna have such a hard time landing anything like debuffs on you and the damage is so incredibly inconsequential that they might as well be outclassed.

As a rule of thumb, small damage isn't enough to scale. Many times is not even enough to back scale. You don't need to be as strong as someone to make them feel pain or, for example, make someone bleed from the nose. The problem is information clashing - this doesn't happen but, as an example, Gagaran being able to defend and be very hurt but not lethally from a serious hit from Entoma. This is where you look for further context like, since this is a game, maybe Entoma isn't as well equiped to resist damage?

Anyway, this is just a case of very little damage and making someone feel pain, which shouldn't be enough.

So I agree wholeheartedly that Gagaran harming Entoma does not mean people of Gagaran's level should scale

Im in favor of apeironaxim here... Ill wait for more input for now.

I agree with upgrade.


This site downgrade Overlord a lot at slightest doubt

Until we have any good reasons not to scale the cloud feat, I support this upgrade.

If this upgrade goes through, wouldn't Ainz get a "At least" 6-C rating, or the "likely higher" after that rating?

I mean, the cloud clearing feat is done with a Tier 6 spell, and Ainz is capable of up to Super-Tier spells via being a max level caster. Since higher tier spells are more powerful (though un-quantifiably so), it sounds like a safe reason to give a "at least" or "likely higher" rating.

DeathNoodles said:

If this upgrade goes through, wouldn't Ainz get a "At least" 6-C rating, or the "likely higher" after that rating?
I mean, the cloud clearing feat is done with a Tier 6 spell, and Ainz is capable of up to Super-Tier spells via being a max level caster. Since higher tier spells are more powerful (though un-quantifiably so), it sounds like a safe reason to give a "at least" or "likely higher" rating.

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Fluder guesses it to be higher than Control Weather, so to be safe we're treating it as either a Tier 7 or 8 spell iirc

That still leaves ainz three to four teirs higher counting super teir...

But Ainz is capable of using spells higher than Tier 8, and even used some of them in combat anyways. Shouldn't he still get those ratings to supplement his 6-C anyways?

I think possibly higher would be a good rating as we aren't sure how the power rises between teirs

The pen or the sword said:

I think possibly higher would be a good rating as we aren't sure how the power rises between teirs

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Possibly higher is fine I guess.

Also WoG places lizarmen below wall level so it would probably be wrong to highball the verse that much

Maybe I should have put my reply in here instead of general for your first post. Your second post refers to the wall that most NW people can't pass, it's a level 20 wall not an actuall wall level for this site.

Muchacho mrm said:

Wiki says it is written by someone else and I have never seen the author tweet about it. There was the Overlord x Youjo too, well that one, the same people that think it's written by the author also think Vol 12 had an intermission. I don't recommend you read that if you're underage, I repeat I do not recommend you read that. The only mention was a Konosuba X Overlord that the higher ups are so tight about If they aren't letting him go all out.
https://twitter.com/search?l=&q=from:maruyama_kugane since:2018-12-01 until:2018-12-07&src=typd

The next challenge will open in the spring with the airing of the anime Isekai Quartet, with the topic [literally goal] being an Overlord X Konosuba fic, being supervised by Keibihei-san himself as that's his home turf! Many thanks! Originally I felt "Akatsuki is a genius. Why is the writing so clever? ……Can I even understand if the topic of my Sidestory is bad? "was how it went in the beginning, by the end it barely resembled my Overlord style. Nevertheless, I'm not concerned since it was a challenge! The people who read it said it was in the clear but Muchimuchi Puririn was scolded by the higher ups, is it absolutely hopeless? .

Of course Muchimuchi Puririn is a working adult, and Keibihei-san gave me the okay as my editor, so isn't their judgment unusual! Related to this Kugane-can did not get permission from Editor-san. Ahem. Of course Wameru-san was loaned to me, so administration-san cannot completely scold me. Also the higher ups scolded me…On that occasion, sorry. That was from Kugane-chan.

[TL Note: Akatsuki/Keibihei is Kono Suba's author. It's like how Overlord's author is Kugane/Muchimuchi Puririn. Maruyama often changes his speaking tone and the way he refers to himself to reflect his various levels of seriousness. Kugane chan is when he's being whimsical or blissfully ignorant. Muchimuchi Puririn is when he's not serious and messing around or Satoru Maruyama. He refers to himself as Maruyama when he's writing about his writing or story. ]

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Just thought Id qoute it from the other thread so their isnt confusion.

Im also inclined to agree with muchacho the author often uses wall to describe obstacles characters can't over come, climb ran into a wall and can't break through the same way the lizard men have.

edit add on to that the lack of legitmacy to that supposed author statement and I don't see the issue...

He actually does outright mention the level 20 wall. He says all this in several post (within the same hour)

https://twitter.com/maruyama_kugane/status/1087707839559172096

https://twitter.com/maruyama_kugane/status/1087708031092047872

Dragon Emperor: the guy who appears in the Vampire Princess: the Platinum Armor (in general during operation) : the First Seat: Blue Sky Dragon Lord: Diamond Dragon Lord: Obsidian Dragon: Wyrm Dragon: Goblin Strategist: Rigrit: the Supreme ruler [Enri?] Commander rank (each unit has one person): Remedios: Buser: Kelart: Rotting Wolf Kurevo (in the past [in his youth?]): Vestia Gazef's teacher: Tira [Tia and Tina's sister? Or typo?]: Nigun: Ryaruasu Zero: Headhunting Rabbit: Luisenberg of Red Drop: Pesshiam of Six Arms: Edstrom of Six Arms: the average of the Imperial Four Knights: Azuth: Succulent: Calca: Silver Canary on average: Malvist of Six Arms: Deibanock of Six Arms: Sunlight Scripture on average: Level 20 Wall: should be it if I'm not mistaken.

Ugarik said:

"Speaking of which― Magic is awesome! Strong and convenient. Just like a cannon!"'"... I don't know how powerful the cannons of this world are, but it definitely can't compare to nuclear weapons. Even the highest tier magic couldn't compare with it.

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The collaboration this quote came from was written mostly by Murasaki Yukiya (which makes sense considering the story takes place in her series setting along with several characters needing to be as close in personality to keep the same style as his main series). I don't think theres any actual information on whether Maruyama contributed anything significant to that story. This is made apparent considering the fact Nuclear Blast exist.

....So not literally a wall and a qoute from a different author in colab peice that maruyama wasn't heavily involved with. Also wouldnt that story fall under our crossover rules... Anything else?

If the statements aren't from the actual author or have anything to do with them, then I don't think the words of other authors have any merit as they are not the ones who created the setting or have any actual ownership over it.

We need statements or confirmations from Maruyama himself, who is the actual author in this case.

The pen or the sword said:

....So not literally a wall and a qoute from a different author in colab peice that maruyama wasn't heavily involved with. Also wouldnt that story fall under our crossover rules... Anything else?

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It would likely fall under Onesided Crossovers. Also theres another crossiver with a somewhat unknown manga series call Sorcerer King and Golem Barbarian Queen or something like that, in it Ainz thought the female mc one-shotting a large ram monster puts her above Nabe and any of his undead.

So in other words guys ignore the crossovers, they aren't cannon (to overlord), the author has little to no involvement and just like all crossover there scaling isn't usable

I was linking wrong calc for the fodder there, so instead of editing i'll just drop it here . For some reason it took me some time to find it since it isn't on the Overlord page...

This would put the Pleiades at about a billio times more powerful than the current adamantite adventurers. Even with that mud monster calc not being completely reliable, it's still several orders of magnitude we're talking about here.

Gagaran can harm Entoma if the latter doesn't actively defend. Even if it's not much, I don't think you can just ignore it when the difference is this gigantic. They gotta be somewhat close in tier, imo.

And, obviously, this is insanely higher than anything else in the verse. Creation was 58 megatons iirc, this is 1 gigaton. Creation is also far, far more powerful than any of the other spells shown. It makes Fallen Down and Nuclear Blast look like nothing. And now this cloud moving completely outclasses Creation.

Clearly just an Environmental effect that has absolutely nothing to do with the character's actual AP, even more so than Creation. Considering how the other thread ended, I doubt most will agree, but just making my opinion clear that this is not combat applicable in any way.

If the mud calc is out the window, we've got to start somewhere right? I think if Gagaran and Entoma were close in tier, you'd have a headache explaining the over 20 level difference between her and Evileye and Entoma surviving even one hit from a spell casted by someone higher level than her utilising her own weakness. Is Ainz close in tier to GoGin since he lost HP after taking down his level 60 barrier? My point is that the degree of damage depends on level and tool used. Then again, the gap between her and Gagaran is not a billion times.

Super-tier is Maruyama's way of getting away with BS abilities, [Creation] hasn't been fully utilised has it? (Creating storms, lava plains or transmute a given area). Also you shouldn't really say it's more powerful than any other spell, you forgot [Wish Upon A Star] although how that is quantifiable remains to be seen. There is also [Change The World] that creates a pocket dimension, how big that will be (if Ainz has this spell) is unknown.

Also [Fallen Down] vaporizing heat wasn't what Ainz equipped himself to deal with despite having x2 damage received from fire/heat weakness, it's luminosity was where most of the damage went and in this case towards the undead. How to calculate how much damage/AP that was is unknown but it should give you an idea of how many of those he can tank (minus the luminosity) without his gear for fire immunity at full HP rather than the conditions of Ainz fight with Shalltear.

Your last paragraph...From Zaryusu's own words the druids can with their combined power generate/control clouds, how much of that remains to be seen but let's just say the season 2 scene when a small cloud covered the sky compared to when it later covered the entire sky. I've already said that's 7B, 21 megatons and if we say there are 10 druids, each one is giving in 2.1 And let's say that isn't really their normal AP and divide that by the total participants and you end up with 210 kilotons each in potency. If you say it isn't applicable you should give an estimate of how many % is. Also this is unrelated but I clicked reply and my post disappeared, I then pressed Ctrl and Z to bring back this wall of text, pretty handy.

On the topic of unknown/unused Super tier:

https://twitter.com/maruyama_kugane/status/410053008840347648

https://twitter.com/maruyama_kugane/status/410053192278212609

I still understand something like Super Tier Magic "Wind of Corruption [Fuhai no fuu]"or Super Tier Magic "Earth's Demise(Yggdrasil Name: End of Earth)" But.. what effect does Super Tier Magic "Great Malediction Curse-killing Poison"have? What did you mean Maruyama of the past? ...Is it something cool?"

Edit: Should there be a vote on whether or not we should scale god tiers while leaving lower tiers alone? If so, just give your vote like

[God-Tier Y/N] 2/

[Fodder N/Y]

Or in your own way.

I think the god teirs are pretty locked in they are getting 6-c atleast thats my vote.

Fodder Im leaning on yes but Im willing to wait for more input

I feel like both the op's explanation and Lancelot's post explain very well why people of Gagaran's level should not scale, both due to the mechanics of the verse, and that small damage is not enough to scale

I'll agree with 6-C for the god tiers if we feel it's legit and not an outlier, which seems to be the way it's going

>we have multiple statements saying god teirs are easily country level

>And now we have calculation backing it up.

>But it is still considered outlier by people who barely read Overlord

Ok....


I still stand with upgrades

Multiple characters were said to have destroyed countries or be capable of doing so, but no timeframe was ever given, and the countries that got zombified by Cure were considered "destroyed" as well.

Give a 7-C enough time in a fantasy world where the best of the best usually can only reach 8-C and where the death of even 20% of the total population of a Nation can heavily wreck it in more ways than one (this applies to real life as well) and yes, they can destroy a country. Don't focus on the tier to much, I just used a suitably low tier that is still nowhere near country level. Give the 7-C an AoE trick or two and kaching, he's set.

Im in agreement statments are not a good way to judge something like that, but we have a calc now and Im in favor of using it.

My only issue is the scaling chain and whether this is truly scalable or Environmental Damage that can also not be scaled.

But I'll let you all decide and debate it instead.

The calculation and feat is there. Why so much hesitation in this feat?


This is a clear cut feat without any doubt.

Aah well I was waiting for Infinite to comment again but it seems he left his last thoughts on the matter. Cloud/storms seem to be added to AP as far as I have went through some feats of this site, the one that surprised me was this. Moving on god-tiers 6-C while the lower tiers stay the same, Slaine should be mostly pleaiades, If we see Narberal create a lightning/thunderstorm only a madman would argue on the validity/scaling. Well anyways thread is closing?

You can use the Overlord verse page and the Knowledgeable Members List to find staff members to ask to comment here.

FDr agrees, I've left a link for Dargoo on his wall. Now we twiddle our thumbs.

Hit The Badass said:

>But it is still considered outlier by people who barely read Overlord

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U wot, m8?

Bump