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Crossover Rules

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Theglassman12

Theglassman12

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Ok so since the last thread essentially became a shitshow cause of RWBY. Might as well make a new thread to not confuse newcomers.

Anyways someone else has made a proposition of how we should handle profiles that are based off crossovers in general.

Profiles for characters that entirely originate from crossovers should be allowed.

Examples: Master Hand (Smash Bros.), Ultron-Sigma (Marvel vs. Capcom), Dark Kah (Mortal Kombat vs. DC Universe), Cosmos and Chaos (Dissidia Final Fantasy), Lord Vortech (Lego Dimensions)

Profiles for characters that appear in the main story of non-crossover games should be allowed.

Examples: Akuma from Tekken 7, Geralt from SoulCalibur VI, Dante from SMT (Though he's a bit muddier with it considering a newer version of the game removed it).

Profiles for crossover versions of characters from crossover games, and plot-irrelevant guest characters should NOT be allowed.

Examples: Mario (Smash Bros.), Thor (Marvel vs. Capcom), Jason Voorhees (Mortal Kombat), and Noctis (Tekken 7) As an extension of above, UNLESS their crossover version is basically defined by the crossover.

This is rare but also worth clarifying.

Examples: Smash Bros' Mr. Game & Watch, who is barely a character in his games but Smash basically makes him their own thing, same with R.O.B.
 
Sera said in the last thread that the crossover characters I mentioned would be allowed since they're a separate continuity. Should this be mentioned in the OP and used as examples?
 
My take on the rules:

Crossover Characters for Non-Crossover Verses:

  • The verse must recognize the characters to be at least a part of storylines involving canon characters or to be implemented into lore of the verse.
  • The characters that are nothing more than an "easter egg", "non-canon DLC" or "hidden boss fight" that doesn't involve wider plot or isn't part of the world and ecosystem of the verse are not allowed.
  • The characters doesn't strictly need to have different origins and personalities as long as it is part of the wider canon. This also means that you don't strictly need to have different abilities to have a profile as long as they are part of the main story. Though there are more chances of approval if they have different origins and new abilities.
Crossover Characters for Crossover Verses:

  • Original characters from crossover characters are allowed.
  • Crossover characters that have different origins and abilities from their original counterparts are allowed.
  • If the crossover character is defined by their crossover appearances, they can have a key for their crossover, though this can be case-by-case basis.
  • Crossovers that are borderline fanfictions aren't allowed.
  • Crossover characters that doesn't do much changes for their original characters aren't allowed unless they are extremely notable.
 
@Agnaa yeah that could be allowed. I mean we have Xeno Goku's profile who is different yet similar to canon goku
 
The Chronicles version of Nocturne (the one with Raidou) was launched only in Japan and none of them (Raidou/Dante) appeared in the first version of Nocturne.

Also IIRC Raidou was introduced in Nocturne to make him more notorious and make more sales, also there is some secret ending for the Raidou game where they acknowledge Nocturne. Dunno if this changes something, also Raidou came 1-2 years after Lucifer's call/maniax version of Nocturne (the one with Dante).
 
I think we should focus on crossovers rather than alternative cano for now since while they're similar, I believe they're completely different can of worms.
 
Only the "crossover version of cross over games should not be allowed" proposition seems to be causing the major issues.

Personally I can agree with it, plot relevance in a story purely about featuring crossover characters is simply not the same as plot relevance in a more usual "self contained" (if that's the right word) story. Although I don't actually have much to say about this topic, so it's not a huge concern of mine either way what the decision ultimately cones to.
 
ShiroyashaGinSan said:
I think we should focus on crossovers rather than alternative cano for now since while they're similar, I believe they're completely different can of worms.
Click to expand...
If that's in reference to my comment, I was talking about some crossover characters with an alternate canon.
 
I don't know if it needs rewording. All I did was reiterate what's already on both pages, in fine detail I might add. According to Weekly this is all about BlazBlue Cross Tag Battle and whether or not it fits the qualifications for the characters. For some reason or another some people believe they are different from their canonical counterparts, while others claim they are exactly the same. I don't know, I didn't play the game myself.

There also seems to be a disagreement from Saikou about the standards in general, I'm not sure, but rewording the pages won't change his mind if he has issues with the standards to begin with. According to him, being part of the story shouldn't matter and he thinks SMT Dante and the like should be deleted.

All we can do is defend the current standards it seems. They're already finely worded to be honest.
 
Okay. Thank you for the explanation. I also think that the current standards seem fine.
 
@Sera

I think weekly is biased since he only wants tier 2 RWBY characters, besides Ruby looks the exact same and acts the exact same, with the only evidence being that she is a bit more serious, though through that logic Smash bros mario should also be allowed since he is more serious than he normally is in Brawl and Lucas is more cowardly/scared i could go on
 
Weekly doesn't seem to be the only one that thinks the characters are different from their canonical counterparts. Those that think that are definitely the minority it seems.
 
How do we define "different"? How do we define what does/doesn't count? And helping in the story shouldn't count, since Megaman X, Dante, Mario, Sonic etc. all are intergral to their crossover fighting games
 
Being part of the story is not relevant for a crossover game.

In crossover games like Smash, of course the characters will be part of the story, why wouldn't they be? That's not the same thing.

Being part of the story is only relevant for guest characters. Guest appearance =/= Crossover. Guest Appearance = One-Sided Canon crossover but the guest appearance is only considered canon if it's part of the game's continuity.

You can't call Soul Calibur VI a crossover between Soul Calibur and The Witcher because only Geralt makes an appearance and crosses over to the Soul Calibur universe. He is part of the game's story and it's lore though unlike the dlc 2B who just had a tiny scenario written for her as fanservice. She doesn't even have her own story episode. Geralt does.

You can't call SMT 3 Nocturne a crossover between MegaTen and DMC, only Dante makes an appearance and he makes an appearance directly into the MegaTen universe. The universes haven't crossed. Dante however is literally part of the game's continuity, but this is freaking MegaTen we're talking about here. While Raidou's transuniversal shenanigans replaced Dante with him in the alt. MegaTen timeline, that's the timeline that eventually spawns If and Persona, Dante is still part of the MegaTen continuity, just the mainline continuity.

You can't call Tekken 7 a crossover between Tekken and Street Fighter. Only Akuma makes an appearance and he's directly tied to the game's lore unlike Geese Howard who was just DLC and had a small scenario about wanting to test the Mishima family himself. SF x Tekken literally is a crossover but it's canonicity is up for debate since Ingrid created the Pandora's Box present in the game.

You can't call Doa5 Last Round a crossover between DOA and Virtua Fighter because only a handful of VF characters appear. They appear in the story too and are part of the game's continuity. Also it is very possible those two franchises take place in the same universe anyway. They're extremely similar.

Smash Bros is literally a crossover between the many Nintendo franchises, it is not like those listed above.
 
I mainly talked about crossover fighting games like MvCI, Smash and Tag, not guest characters
 
It doesn't seem like my input is needed here, and I am trying to cut down a bit on my work time, so I will unsubscribe from this thread now. You can send me a message later if you need help with something.
 
What about original characters from crossover games or exclusive versions of characters that have backstory behind their creation and exclusive abilities the canon version doesn't in crossover games?
 
@Paul

I don't know. Never played the game.

@Lightin

I know, that's why I explained the difference. If Weekly thought I meant "crossover game where characters are part of the story" counts, I apologize. That is definitely not what I meant. I was referring to exclusive characters from crossover games being automatically acceptable and guest characters in other games being acceptable so long as they are part of the game's continuity.

@Ant

Kk. I'll try and wrap this up ASAP.
 
Keep this in mind at all times:

If the crossover game is an official separate continuity from its canonical counterparts, it still qualifies.

The King of Fighters is a literal crossover game between all of SNK's biggest fighters with some new characters like Kyo and his team. Starting with KoF 95, the series became its own continuity and is considered separate from Fatal Fury, Art of Fighting, etc. it is also SNK's primary flagship title and the primary branch of the SNK canon.
 
@Sera you should thank Ever, he got the summary for the OP down. I just copied it over here.

@General I already listed those original characters as something that can count. Dark kahn and Ultron Sigma were made in their crossover games but practically everyone else is from other source material thrown together for some fanservice.
 
The Evah. Always in our hearts. Helping us from beyond the wiki grave ;_;
 
Yyyep, so should we wait for more input on others or could we be able to apply these changes?
 
Say I wanted to make a composite profile of Noctis Lucis Caelum's numerous appearances across crossovers and stuff, like his story quest in the FFXV event. Where would I post that? FC/OC wiki doesn't seem appropriate, and joke battles is even less appropriate. I bring this up here because often times crossovers act as useful pieces to composite profiles. Noctis gains Martial Arts and Monk abilities from FFXIV and Tekken, for example. If we can't have composite profiles nor crossover profiles, how can you properly index things like this?
 
The point; either make composite pages more viable, make blogs that go over the scaling overall and tiering in the crossover for every character in small detail like so;

Noctis (Tekken 7); Martial Arts (abilities gotten from the crossover), Tier whatever Tekken's durability/AP/Striking is.

Create profiles that are just the crossover versions with each key being a different crossover, or just suck it up and make the redundant profiles.

Alternatively, you can just make notes at the bottom of existing profiles that clarify the tiering and abilities in the crossovers.

or not worry about 50 different redundant p
 
The standards are fine as they are. This might sound harsh but this isn't about what you, me, or anyone else really "want", it's about what the site needs first and what we want second. We don't need 50 redundant profiles. Noctis hardly as any new abilities in his Tekken appearance, he's primarily fighting with his sword just like in FFXV. That's not martial arts.

There's no real reason to exclude exclusive characters however, or guests with genuine ties to continuity.

Also this is not about composites. That's different can of worms. While I'm neutral towards them, because they don't seem to be harmful, composite characters are primarily just for fun anyway. That's what JBW exists for. Ryukama has said numerous times that JBW is not just for joke characters. You could also just make a blog for them and use them in an F&G versus thread.
 
Then why can't we just make a blog for these problematic characters and have a page deticated to those blogs?
 
Composites require the character be actually Iconic, well known and have many appearences in media over the years, Noctis doesn't count
 
Like I get it's for the structure of the wiki and shit, but wouldn't it be better to find a compromise to eliminate these problems rather than having there be constant changes? And I get that Ryu says Joke battles wiki isn't just for memes, but no one buys that. At all. Based on the fact that having any serious discussion of anything on a website labeled joke isn't something people would consider. I would more respect FC/OC as an answer for it than Joke Battles.

My point is, if the goal is to reduce these types of threads, whistle simultaneously giving as much info on characters as possible, there needs to be places for this information to be readily findable, otherwise this site is deliberately refusing to do what it's supposed to do. I recommend putting notes or something about crossovers in profiles, making one big profile for non-canon stuff with different keys, or making a page that keeps all the blogs of crossover content, alternative canon and what have you so that people can put things that are real and necessary but not worthy of getting profiles on there. Because I don't even know how to look for specific blogs and an index for those would be helpful.
 
Compromise in this case helps solve the issue, not just helping people be satisfied, is the point.
 
Composites and Crossover stuff would basically be treated the same way since they have a similar issue. Specifically for crossover stuff, we just make a page for blogs about these characters so we don't have to worry about that anymore.
 
And i'm Saying that my issue solves BOTH, making it relevant to this conversation. I only brought up composites because of the similar issue, and figured it would be relevant to say that this solves both issues so no one would have to wait until this aspect of the issue comes on, killing two birds with the same stone. We both understand what's going on, why are you being a dick and policing me?
 
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