Crossover Rules

[Andytrenom]

Blogs are mostly a personal thing and can't be subjected to the same quality control that officials profiles would go through. They can have information that wouldn't be considered legitimate by the wiki's standards and the person making these blogs can't really be forced to change it.

Linking blog posts as if they are proper source of information endorsed by the wiki isn't a good idea.

 

[LightinAnt]

Mixing non canon stuff in canon profiles is both confusing and will inevitably turn out a mess, especially with characters who are well known and have tons of appearences

 

[Amexim]

If you don't want it to be a profile, composite, alternative canon, crossover, or whatever, make a blog, and put that blog on a page so everyone can see it. Solves a bunch of issues at the same time, so we don't have to wait until someone thinks about each of these things by themselves and asks them, opening up another can of worms when there's a simple solution that applies to all of them. Plz don't talk to me like i'm derailing.

 

[LightinAnt]

Or put it on JBW and FC/OC where these things actually belong

 

[Amexim]

A note or a section that clarifies it's non-canon at the bottom of a thread will only be confusing if someone can't read.

 

[Theglassman12]

Except you kind of are derailing. And besides like Lightin said, getting the non canon stuff into the canon stuff by linking some theoretical composite version of the characters is gonna be a clusterfuck

 

[Amexim]

And wouldn't the solution to the quality control problem be removal and recreation of unreliable blogs? Otherwise we should ban blogs as a whole.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I think the OP is summarized very well.

 

[Theglassman12]

Or you know, have people look over the blogs and see if it's legit. Not exactly a hard concept to grasp, especially when almost all of our calcs are in Blogs to begin with

 

[Amexim]

You're mixing up my proposals. Never said link composites, I said have a tiny blurb with the non-canon info in a very very very short note at the bottom of the page. And I don't think it's derailing if i'm proposing a solution to this specific problem, and saying that it can apply to all of the other problems of a similar nature.

 

[Amexim]

So, which is it? Do we not use blogs on a page or do we have people review those blogs like their calcs and put them on a page?

We could do that OR put small notes at the bottom that don't do more than summarize the small amounts of differences between alternative content and the main page. We don't need to do all of them. Just one of them.

 

[LightinAnt]

Why do we need to summarize differences for non canon stuff if it is entirely disconnected from the canon profile?

Like making Goku (DBS) and adding a blog that says he has Super Saiyan 4 in GT, for what purpose?

Also most characters that appear in tons of stuff are barely if at all different besides having a some abillities changed or added which again adds nothing to the initial profile, Goku being the most obvious exception with Goku GT being its own thing

 

[Amexim]

would look like this.

Noctis:

Sheet info and stuff.

Notes:

Non-canon/Alt canon info: Noctis in Tekken 7 (Tier X, Striking, Durability, and AP: X class, w/ new abilities: Martial Arts, Wind Manipulation)

Literally just at the bottom, not even a paragraph.

Or, we create things similar to the verse pages and put the blogs that are verified by review on those pages. Like I was saying.

 

[YungManzi]

I do see where Amexim is coming from, on one point:

If VSBW is primarily a battle/statistics indexing website, doesn't it make sense to have as much information about a character's fighting ability as possible...as in both canon and non-canon?

I get that it could cause problems that staff don't want to deal with, but my question has more to do with the actual purpose of this website.

 

[Andytrenom]

Keeping a profile in check and keeping a calculation in check aren't really comparable things. Verifying if a calculation is correct usually only requires some knowledge on maths and science, verifying if a character profile is correct is much less straightforward and will often involve various conflicting viewpoints that can't be reconciled without an extensive discussion.

You can't just have a member say "looks good" to blog profile and consider that enough for the information presented to be accurate, managing the accuracy of these blogs would be a much more demanding task than managing the accuracy of calculations.

 

[Theglassman12]

@Amexim for Noctis' case it's hardly much of a difference when his moves in Tekken are basically ripped from FFXV. The only difference is just a tier difference.

 

[Amexim]

@Lightnin

An arbitrary Addition "composite" Goku with no differences at all in anything but with SS4 and shit on top of Super isn't what I am proposing. I'm talking about versions of characters that are from crossovers who have different scaling, or real composite versions that combine ALL of it. Nothing in between, that's a terrible example.

Things like Kaguya or Naruto from the storm games—- at the bottom of the main profile, we just put in the notes the tiering, stats, and new stuff, so long as it can fit in three lines. Anything with a bigger differences that can't be summarized either needs a profile or a blog.

Because we're an indexing site, and not having this information readily available defeats the purpose.

 

[Theglassman12]

@Amexim that sounds very similar to just having crossover versions of the characters where the only difference is the tiers. It's superfluous to even include them when they're the same exact person with only a tier difference but everything else they have is identical.

 

[LightinAnt]

@Lightnin
An arbitrary Addition "composite" Goku with no differences at all in anything but with SS4 and shit on top of Super isn't what I am proposing. I'm talking about versions of characters that are from crossovers who have different scaling, or real composite versions that combine ALL of it. Nothing in between, that's a terrible example.

GT has its own scaling, even some hax, own designs and own storyline, that does not mean it should be in DBS Goku's profile due to it being the canon one

 

[Amexim]

Theglassman.

So, you put that in a small note at the bottom. Because this is an indexing wiki and logic would dictate that one wouldn't omit information from a wiki about gathering as much info as possible. Small shit can be noted at the bottom harmlessly, or put someplace on the site that is supposed to have information. Is this wiki doing its job where the only time someone learns Noctis knows Martial arts in some continuity is through a random conversation? No. It's not.

 

[Theglassman12]

Something THAT superfluous shouldn't really matter in the long run. And again it's the same case with just having crossover versions of the characters with no difference aside from tiers.

 

[Amexim]

Light, you're not understanding.

I'm talking about shit like the Toriko crossovers, or Smash, or things like that. Shit that is literally just Tier changes. You put a simple note and keep it moving. We don't have to make a profile, or anything. We get info out and into the public, without having a redundant page, and we do the job of the wiki.

It doesn't make sense to deliberately refuse to put a simple small note at a bottom of a page about something that is super small and not worthy of a page or profile, despite it being relevant information.

 

[Sera_EX]

GT is its own continuity. It is not comparable to Noctis' guest appearance in Tekken where he isn't even part of the game's continuity. He's just DLC. Same goes for Geese Howard. Why is this do hard to process?

 

[LightinAnt]

There is documentation and then there is redundancy, we don't need composites/blogs about characters who only have like 3 abillities and a slight tier difference. Also GT has tier differences, Galaxy busting, again does not mean it belongs in a composite with canon Goku

 

[Theglassman12]

Why is this do hard to process?

I've been asking this since last night

 

[Amexim]

@Glass

So, you don't care about gathering as much information as possible and putting it out there, despite being part of an indexing wiki that is supposed to do that exact thing? I would think different tiering in a crossover isn't superfluous, if I loved Noctis, I would want to know if there's a version of him that's 2-A or something, otherwise I don't really care how strong he is at all and this wiki is superfluous to me.

And it's literally the smallest change, for s small thing. Why is it so hard to just shrug and say fine? It harms nothing and helps this site do its job.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I'm glad the OP quite-well summarizes what Dragon and I have been saying in the previous thread and what most of us all agreed originally. Thanks, Glass. This should make conversation much smoother.

Same.

Also Dissidia shouldn't even be used as an example since its 100% canon to the Final Fantasy Multiverse.

 

[Theglassman12]

Information that is Hardly worth noting in the first place. Look are Sera's comment for reference

 

[Amexim]

Yes, Lightnin, and we lack both documentation and blogs. As Sera said, you're bringing up shit that isn't comparable to DLC like Noctis or 2B in SC. Those versions should be documented, and the least that could be done is a small note at the bottom of a page, if everyone is too lazy for a blog. Do we not care about documentation?

 

[Sera_EX]

Dude, we are not mixing canon with non canon. There is literally no reason to include that. Most of the vs debating world ignored non canon material anyway. Why should we bend a knee and put redundant information on a profile? It benefits no one. Not us. Not our viewers.

Let me be clear, I don't like to make false accusations, but if people are only arguing so they can have the same character with a higher/lower tier or slightly different abilities, be it acknowledged as non-canon on file or not, for crying out loud, stop. It's getting old.

 

[LightinAnt]

I mean what you're arguing is that we absolutely need Shovel Knight having a footnote saying "Oh yeah in Bloodstained he shows up and kills a zombie, tier 9 with shovel manipulation) i.e Pointless

 

[Sera_EX]

@Matt

That's true yeah. KH is a better example for the Final Fantasy characters.

 

[Amexim]

The information IS worth nothing. It exists. And falls under our area of expertise in powerscaling and shit. How can you call yourself someone interested in an indexing site for information if you view any information as trivial? Isn't the point of this site to be a resource and educate people on this topic? How can you do that if you omit any information? Some people would LIKE to know of a 2-A 2B, just as much as they would like to know of how strong or fast Spider-Man is.

 

[Theglassman12]

How can you call yourself someone interested in an indexing site for information if you view any information as trivial?

Ok that's a straw man, he never said that ANY information is trivial. He said that information that is hardly any different than what we already got for the characters is trivial.

 

[Amexim]

Then why not make a blog page about it then? What is the point in being an indexing wiki if we're not gonna include information that might be relevant to some people, and don't strawman me Lightnin.

It's not even being mixed in a way that would even be confusing either, because the note would have "NON-CANON" whatever in front of it. I'm certainly interested in this kinds of information, and I know I'm not alone, so what's up? I get not wanting to make profiles, Hell, even blogs, but this information has to go somewhere.

 

[Sera_EX]

Because it's irrelevant information and is likewise inconsistent with the actual relevant information.

Why the heck do we have to tell people "oh btw, this key here? It's not canon". That's beyond ridiculous.

 

[Theglassman12]

@Sera Exactly, it's the same shit as adding Smash brothers info on every character ever and saying it's non canon. There's no point to it at all when there's little to no difference at all with the different characters.

 

[Amexim]

He didn't, but you did, calling the information not worth noting despite being a staff member on a wiki who's self-assigned job is supposed to be compiling this type of information.

But fine.

This information should be compiled either way. If something as simple as, "oh he did a thing once" is too much effort to put on a small note, where would the information go? Why is it that we default on not including this information instead of finding a more cost-effective method of putting it out there? With ANYTHING, not just composites or non canon

 

[Amexim]

I'm not asking for a key, i'm asking for a simple note. Where would you recommend we put the information then? People already seem to be against blogs, so what's the hw plan. The information doesn't need to be on a profile, but it should be somewhere.

 

[Theglassman12]

Dude you're suggesting what is essentially a watered down version of making a crossover/Non-canon profile with no distinction between the characters.