Some Missing stuff from Magi Part 2 Magi/David/Solomon and Kouen Ren and Sinbad

Continuing from here https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/2874709 while M3X revision those profiles.

Magi
(Accept) Every Magi has Creation according to the Baker

(Accept) Magi and Magicans in general have resitance to Void Manipulation because of this stuff those Angels with one attack can return everything to the ruhk. Arba state this about that returning the ruhk means reduceerd to nothingness

Aladdi in the next scans is holding those Angels back with his Borg: https://www.***********.net/magi/357/6 https://www.***********.net/magi/358/5 https://www.***********.net/magi/358/16 https://www.***********.net/magi/359/10 pretty damn impressive on Aladdin part. I would only give this to the top tiers like Aladdin, David, Solomon, Judar, Arba, Yuna and of course Sheba because of this statement by Yamuraiha but i am also fine giving this to all of them

(Accept) Arba is missing resistance to Fate Manipulation, Soul Manipulation and Mind Manipulation because she is Falle.

(Denied) Arba regen instead of Low-High might even be just High because of these statement:she can regen as much as she wants and Aladdin confirms this that Arba can Indefinitily Regen as long as She isnt in danger. To support this the only two times Arba couldt regen was because of [hhtp://m.*********.cc/manga/magi/v20/c250/4.html. the Isolation Barrier] so she couldt use Magoi and because of Aladdin alchemic magic so Arba has no bodies anymore.

(Accept) Arba may have Space-Time magic because she teleport Sinbad to the Sacred Place.

(Accept) Judar Might have Curse Manipulation because of this stuff with Bellial and this

(Accept) Aladdi is the only Magi who is missing Absorption via Ruhk More prove https://www.***********.net/magi/174/4

(Accept) Aladdi might have Law Manipulation because of this:

because he changed the Laws of Forces Internet scans.

Magic that rewrites the Laws of the World are permanent official scans. (Uncertai) If Aladdin gets Law Manipulation then David and Solomo might also have it to.

Aladdi might have Fate Manipulation because of this statement of the official scan: https://imgur.com/mhpOXRV

(Uncertai) Aladdi Solomon Wisdom should be add to his Notable Attacks/Techniques.

( PIS) This is also might be incorrect: (The reason why we do not rate Aladdin as High 2-A is because he only defeated the true form of David which is not the same as David's High 2-A level proxy in the Sacred Palace. If those explanations are insufficient, we can probably write it off as Plot-Induced Stupidity, as Aladdin has definitely never remotely displayed a multiversal scale of power.)

A Sacred Place Sinbad stop this David from attacking Aladdi and holding him back

B this final attack of Aladdi can be considered Summoning after all Solomon Wisdom enables Aladdin to access the Great Flow and then call upon the ruhk no matter the time or place just like the time in Balbadd.


David,Kouen Ren and Sinbad
(Accept) Kouen Re should have resistance to Fate Manipulation, Soul Manipulation, Curse Manipulation and Mind Manipulation because of this https://www.***********.net/magi/363/6

(Accept) Kouen Re also should have Curse Manipulation and Mind Manipulation via The Ring of Admonition.

This ability also give him Sealing because of this https://www.***********.net/magi/363/14. pretty damn op seesing how he is using this on four Metal Vessel users with ease.

(Uncertai) Kouen Re also has Life Manipulation and Life Absorption because of Phenex

(Accept) David should have Absorption this is also pretty dumb hax seesing how he stealing power of a God and has Fusionism because he fused with Il Ilah

(Accept) David probably also has Physics Manipulation because of this plus here so more might have also Existence Erasure because what happens in Sinbad no Bouken 176 (Raw versio) Spoiler Warning https://itsdanystormborn.tumblr.com/post/170107566363/sinbad-no-

bouken-176-raw and translated by the same person https://itsdanystormborn.tumblr.com/post/170053093183/sinbad-no-bouken-176.

(Denied) His Existence Erasure is support by the fact that she indeed died https://mangahub.io/chapter/magi-sinbad-no-bouken_101/chapter-177.1 and if you remember all of Al Thamen Members exits only as a pure will but i could be wrong about this.

(Accept)Sinbad has Limit Precognition a Singulartiy can see the threads of destiny and guide others along.

(Denied) Sinbad might have Absorption because of this scan https://www.***********.net/magi/114/8 and what happend in this chapter from Sinbad no Bouken 175 Spoiler Warning:

Raw versio https://imgur.com/a/4VXgQ

Person who translated it it https://itsdanystormborn.tumblr.com/post/169520135793/sinbad-no-bouken-175

(Accept) This also would give Sinbad resistance to Fate Manipulation, Soul Manipulation, Curse Manipulation and Mind Manipulation because he is halfway falle.

(Accept) Shouldt Magi character have Non-Physical_Interaction because of this these scans: https://www.***********.net/magi/321/2 https://www.***********.net/magi/322/3

('Accept) David and Sinbad Existence Erasure should be changed to Void Manipulation because of Arba Statement: Arba state this returning the ruhk means reduceerd to nothingness. This also means Ill Ilah has Void Manipulation and the other Gods EE should be changed to Void Manipulation because it's more appropriate.

Note: I know that the Aladdin stuff is with David is controversial but i tyring to explain it with logic and it can be wrong.

Let's also take are time with this because there is no reason to end this quick.

As usual, you should use the Magi verse page and the Knowledgeable Members List to find people to ask to comment here.

i don`t see resistance to existance erasure in the scans

It,s because of this https://www.***********.net/magi/351/4 those Angels with one attack can return everything to the ruhk.

Arba is state this returning the ruhk means reduceerd to nothingness

Tincan123 said:

It,s because of this https://www.***********.net/magi/351/4 those Angels with one attack can return everything to the ruhk.

Click to expand...

that`s transmutation

Tincan123 said:

It,s because of this https://www.***********.net/magi/351/4 those Angels with one attack can return everything to the ruhk.
Arba is state this returning the ruhk means reduceerd to nothingness

Click to expand...

it is resistance to void manipulation

Ok then we should changes the Gods EE to Void manipulation fits more

It is not transmutation or void manipulation. They are going back to the Rukh, it is stated that they will be erased

Existence erasure seems more appropriate.

Yeah, EE fits more.

The rukh/soul pieces of a person are not erased from existence, but they do lose all past sense of self before being reincarnated. That is all.

Iirc that attack only converts people into rukh which is then absorbed by the sacred palace to ascend to a higher reality. Hmmmm guess it's transmutation then.

Either way it's been a long time since I have read magi, so I might not be correct.

Edit alot of stuff for better reading.

If the Ruhk returns to the Sacred Place because of David Sinbad or Ugo activated the Magic of the Sacred Place then they become stronger and then they can change the Hierachy of Gods

Now it's a different story if you just die then your Rukh would return to become a part of the Great flow (Aka Solomon) and if you your a Magi then you would be reincarnated just like Yuna. Same goes for Ill Ilah/David but it had no Magi so everyone of Alma Toran who died became part of him

Also the color of Ruhk depends on which God controls destiny Example is that the Black Ruhk isnt a part of the Great Flow (Aka Solomon)

Now according to Amon this is what happens when the Medium takes your Ruhk: Anything that it's hands touch will have their white ruhk inside their bodies be stolen away and erased a black sun, shining down the world devoid of life just like Alma Tora.

Ill ILah takes the ruhk from everything

Arba state this returning the ruhk means reduceerd to nothingness.

In my Opinion it could be two things: Void Manipulation because the Gods can return the Ruhk to themselves making everything of the physical world nothing again examples are Ill Ilah,Sinbad and David this would fit the Conversion to Nonexistence part of Void Manipulation. Tought they need to open an Dimension hole to do this if they wanne invade each other worlds because they all live in a higher dimension.

And Transmutation because their turning everything of the physical world into Ruhk.

Bump

Antvasima said:

As usual, you should use the Magi verse page and the Knowledgeable Members List to find people to ask to comment here.

Click to expand...

Have you done this?

We don't have much knowledgeable members for Magi, the majority is offline for months. We only have me, Tincan, Tata and BLANK.

We need the help of some mods too

Here are some of the less frequently asked staff members that you can select from to ask to give input when there are no knowledgeable members available:

Ryukama

SomebodyData

Darkanine

Reppuzan

Dragonmasterxyz

Celestial Pegasus

Dark649

Soldier Blue

Monarch Laciel

Kaltias

Assaltwaffle

Saikou The Lewd King

Kepekley23

Gemmysaur

Ultima Reality

DarkDragonMedeus

AKM Sama

Dargoo Faust

MrKingOfNegativity

Theglassman12

Wokistan

I willask for then.

And I agree with the entire OP too.

Okay. Thanks.

Sorry i forgot about this, i'll give my input now

- Creation for magi looks good, i'm fine with this

- Void manipulation, i'm not sure about this, the "it'll turn you into nothing" seems kinda hyperbole-ish, because we know returning to the ruhk doesn't LITERALLY make you nothing, physically maybe but your soul still exists within the great flow.

- Arba is missing resistance to Fate Manipulation, Soul Manipulation and Mind Manipulationbecause she is Falle, these look good, i'm sure there's some more fallen characters across the series like Judar and Hakuryuu tho

- Arba regen instead of Low-High might even be just High, i don't see how this statement grants higher regen, having higher regen is based on what you can regenerate not how many times

- Fine with Spacetime for Arba, Law manip for Aladdin and Solomon, Absorption for aladdin and curse for Judar

"(The reason why we do not rate Aladdin as High 2-A is because he only defeated the true form of David which is not the same as David's High 2-A level proxy in the Sacred Palace. If those explanations are insufficient, we can probably write it off as Plot-Induced Stupidity, as Aladdin has definitely never remotely displayed a multiversal scale of power.)"

This is a whole nother revision thread i think, i made a thread about this a year or two ago but it was rejected and i didn't pursue it further, i still think Aladdin should've been High 2-A or at least a 3-A via scaling above pre god solomon but oh well.

- Not sure about summoning for aladdin, it seems more like Solomon and co came to him rather than him summoning

- No to Kouen getting those i think, he's never shown to be actually fallen and i think you have to completely fall into depravity for that

- Fine with Kouen getting Mind and Curse manip

- Fine with david getting absorption and fusionism and physics manip

- Not sure about the EE stuff

- Not sure about precog, if this was the case wouldn't sinbad pretty much know how everything would turn out?

- Not sure about absorption, looks more to me like David latched onto sinbad rather than the other way around, this was also stated in your earlier scan

TataHakai seems to make sense to me, although Aladdin defeating David seems like Plot-Induced Stupidity, yes, and he also had help from his parents.

@TataHakai True Kouen has never fallen into depravity but Hakuryuu has and by switching his own legs and arm Kouen gained thehalf of Hakuryuu ruhk when he was fallen into depravity. So thats why he should have resistance to Fate Manipulation, Soul Manipulation, Mind Manipulation and Curse Manipulation if you inculde this.

Sinbad does state this: If i hold all the power in my hands then such tragedies will not happen again! That is the Destinyi have foresee. Lately, I haven't been able to see it anymore. Tjis could be Limit Precog

You might be right about his absorption it could just be his resistance to Fate Manipulation, Soul Manipulation, Curse Manipulation and Mind manipulation. Ugo does state this about Sinbad.

Also i was wondering if David should have resistance to Fate Manipulation, Soul Manipulation, Curse Manipulation and Mind manipulation seesing how he became a part of Ill Ilah

Limited precog might be better

And yes Hakuryuu and Kouen should have those then

Honestly all fallen characters should, since they can resist the fate and destiny set to them by the god above, David being one of the first

Antvasima said:

TataHakai seems to make sense to me, although Aladdin defeating David seems like Plot-Induced Stupidity, yes, and he also had help from his parents.

Click to expand...

I'm fine with this really

It doesn't make much sense for characters to be on Higher Gods power without the hierarchy shifting anyways, otherwise the hierarchy would be kinda pointless

Okay. I think that the agreed upon changes can probably be applied then.

It should be noted that all the characters who have these various resistances due to being "fallen", have it due to inverse logic (Basically they would be unable to resist fate manipulation from other verses).

BANLK is most likely correct regarding that.

@-BANLK-

Do you mean these statements?

https://www.***********.net/magi/66/12 https://www.***********.net/magi/66/13 https://www.***********.net/magi/104/11

Do have to note out that in total 9 people were unaffected by Sinbad rewritning the Ruhk Those are Aladdin,Alibaba,Hakuryuu,Judar,Arba,David,Kouen Ren,Hakuei Ren and if you wanne count Ugo. Now -BANLK you are right by saying (Basically they would be unable to resist fate manipulation from other verses) but this would be only the case if you are a superior God and this is state twice and by Ugo when he Rekt David. This could also be consinderd Acausality Type 4 but i highly doubt that.


I also edit the page so you guys can see what is accept and what not and what we still have to disscus. But for a quick Summmary:


(Accept) Every Magi has Creation according to the Baker

(Uncertai) Magi and Magicans in general have resitance to Void Manipulation because of this stuff those Angels with one attack can return everything to the ruhk. Arba state this about that returning the ruhk means reduceerd to nothingness

Aladdi in the next scans is holding those Angels back with his Borg: https://www.***********.net/magi/357/6 https://www.***********.net/magi/358/5 https://www.***********.net/magi/358/16 https://www.***********.net/magi/359/10 pretty damn impressive on Aladdin part. I would only give this to the top tiers like Aladdin, David, Solomon, Judar, Arba, Yuna and of course Sheba because of this statement by Yamuraiha but i am also fine giving this to all of them

(Accept) Arba is missing resistance to Fate Manipulation, Soul Manipulation and Mind Manipulation because she is Falle.

(Denied) Arba regen instead of Low-High might even be just High because of these statement:she can regen as much as she wants and Aladdin confirms this that Arba can Indefinitily Regen as long as She isnt in danger. To support this the only two times Arba couldt regen was because of [hhtp://m.*********.cc/manga/magi/v20/c250/4.html. the Isolation Barrier] so she couldt use Magoi and because of Aladdin alchemic magic so Arba has no bodies anymore.

(Accept) Arba may have Space-Time magic because she teleport Sinbad to the Sacred Place.

(Accept) Judar Might have Curse Manipulation because of this stuff with Bellial and this

(Uncertai) Aladdi is the only Magi who is missing Absorption via Ruhk More prove https://www.***********.net/magi/174/4

(Accept) Aladdi might have Law Manipulation because of this:

because he changed the Laws of Forces Internet scans.

Magic that rewrites the Laws of the World are permanent official scans. (Uncertai) If Aladdin gets Law Manipulation then David and Solomo might also have it to.

Aladdi might have Fate Manipulation because of this statement of the official scan: https://imgur.com/mhpOXRV

(Uncertai) Aladdi Solomon Wisdom should be add to his Notable Attacks/Techniques.

(PIS) This is also might be incorrect: (The reason why we do not rate Aladdin as High 2-A is because he only defeated the true form of David which is not the same as David's High 2-A level proxy in the Sacred Palace. If those explanations are insufficient, we can probably write it off as Plot-Induced Stupidity, as Aladdin has definitely never remotely displayed a multiversal scale of power.)

A Sacred Place Sinbad stop this David from attacking Aladdi and holding him back

B this final attack of Aladdi can be considered Summoning after all Solomon Wisdom enables Aladdin to access the Great Flow and then call upon the ruhk no matter the time or place just like the time in Balbadd.


David,Kouen Ren and Sinbad
(Accept) Kouen Re should have resistance to Fate Manipulation, Soul Manipulation, Curse Manipulation and Mind Manipulation because of this https://www.***********.net/magi/363/6

(Accept) Kouen Re also should have Curse Manipulation and Mind Manipulation via The Ring of Admonition.

This ability also give him Sealing because of this https://www.***********.net/magi/363/14. pretty damn op seesing how he is using this on four Metal Vessel users with ease.

(Uncertai) Kouen Re also has Life Manipulation and Life Absorption because of Phenex

(Accept) David should have Absorption this is also pretty dumb hax seesing how he stealing power of a God and has Fusionism because he fused with Il Ilah

(Accept) David probably also has Physics Manipulation because of this plus here so more might have also Existence Erasure because what happens in Sinbad no Bouken 176 (Raw versio) Spoiler Warning https://itsdanystormborn.tumblr.com/post/170107566363/sinbad-no-

bouken-176-raw and translated by the same person https://itsdanystormborn.tumblr.com/post/170053093183/sinbad-no-bouken-176.

(Uncertai) His Existence Erasure is support by the fact that she indeed died https://mangahub.io/chapter/magi-sinbad-no-bouken_101/chapter-177.1 and if you remember all of Al Thamen Members exits only as a pure will but i could be wrong about this.

(Accept)Sinbad has Limit Precognition a Singulartiy can see the threads of destiny and guide others along.

(Denied) Sinbad might have Absorption because of this scan https://www.***********.net/magi/114/8 and what happend in this chapter from Sinbad no Bouken 175 Spoiler Warning:

Raw versio https://imgur.com/a/4VXgQ

Person who translated it it https://itsdanystormborn.tumblr.com/post/169520135793/sinbad-no-bouken-175

(Accept) This also would give Sinbad resistance to Fate Manipulation, Soul Manipulation, Curse Manipulation and Mind Manipulation because he is halfway falle.

Shouldt Magi character have Non-Physical_Interaction because of this these scans: https://www.***********.net/magi/321/2 https://www.***********.net/magi/322/3

(Uncertai) David and Sinbad Existence Erasure should be changed to Void Manipulation because of Arba Statement: Arba state this returning the ruhk means reduceerd to nothingness. This also means Ill Ilah has Void Manipulation and the other Gods EE should be changed to Void Manipulation because it's more appropriate.

Tincan123 said:

@-BANLK-
Do you mean these statements?

https://www.***********.net/magi/66/12 https://www.***********.net/magi/66/13 https://www.***********.net/magi/104/11

Do have to note out that in total 9 people were unaffected by Sinbad rewritning the Ruhk Those are Aladdin,Alibaba,Hakuryuu,Judar,Arba,David,Kouen Ren,Hakuei Ren and if you wanne count Ugo. Now -BANLK you are right by saying (Basically they would be unable to resist fate manipulation from other verses) but this would be only the case if you are a superior God and this is state twice and by Ugo when he Rekt David. This could also be consinderd Acausality Type 4 but i highly doubt that.

Click to expand...

Sorry but I don't think that the "Superior god" stuff is gonna work outside magi verse, the explanations are simply insufficient for that. I still think that all the resistances of these "Fallen" characters are moot in a vs battle situation. Even if we equalize the verse principles in such debates, magi settings are simply too unique for it to properly work.

Tincan123 said:

( PIS) This is also might be incorrect: (The reason why we do not rate Aladdin as High 2-A is because he only defeated the true form of David which is not the same as David's High 2-A level proxy in the Sacred Palace. If those explanations are insufficient, we can probably write it off as Plot-Induced Stupidity, as Aladdin has definitely never remotely displayed a multiversal scale of power.)

A Sacred Place Sinbad stop this David from attacking Aladdi and holding him back

B this final attack of Aladdi can be considered Summoning after all Solomon Wisdom enables Aladdin to access the Great Flow and then call upon the ruhk no matter the time or place just like the time in Balbadd.

Click to expand...

That's not even sacred palace Sinbad iirc, the sacred palace was already destroyed/In the process of being destroyed by that time, this is just rukh Sinbad with whatever level of power he had left after the palace was getting destroyed. It's best we leave it as PIS, since most of what you have written here is just an assumption and again there is no real explanation given in the story.

Sorry but I don't think that the "Superior god" stuff is gonna work outside magi verse, the explanations are simply insufficient for that. I still think that all the resistances of these "Fallen" characters are moot in a vs battle situation. Even if we equalize the verse principles in such debates, magi settings are simply too unique for it to properly work.

Well that is a first time for me to read. that something too unique for Vsbattle.

I accept what has been accepted in the Op and I neutral about uncertain and denied propositions.

Aladin's Rewriting the laws of the world is just physics manipulation.

Yeah it changes the laws of physics, but we don't give law hax to every physics manipulator.

Also the bit about those resistances via fallen not working outside the verse doesn't make sense. They aren't affected by one god controlling minds and souls and fate because they are already under the "control" of another god, or because they come from another universe's flow of ruhk. That would still work in a vs match

@Monarch

Okay. Thank you for the help.

@Mon Are you saying that these "Fallen" characters can also automatically resist Zepar's mind manipulation?

I'm okay with resistance for Magi to Void Manipulate because it's Manipulation of Nothingness

I'm neutral about Arba's Regenerationn

I do agree with Aladdin absorption by absorbing the rukhs

Aladdin having Fate Manipulation seems more like Causality Manipulation seems to me.

So should I just look at the stuff tagged with (uncertain)?

ABoogieYesSir said:

I'm okay with resistance for Magi to Void Manipulate because it's Manipulation of Nothingness

Click to expand...

It is not void manipulation. The angles just transmute things into rukh, which basically means that people lose their personality and physical self but their soul is still intact.

Also Arba's Regenerationn is definitely not "High", she can just regen repeatedly, which is nothing impressive.