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Kamijou Touma vs Crimson Flame Haze, Shana

Dragopentling

Dragopentling

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I kinda came up with this on a whim and thought it might work out alright. So praying right now that's the case, unlike most of my other attempted versus threads. If not, I wanna die.

(P.S. Isn't it kind of sad that Shakugan no Shana doesn't get a lot of attention on this wiki?)

Speed equalized. SBA applied. Flame Haze Shana is used and she has access to all the magic items obtained in the ANIME. Both sides start at 10 meters apart (will change some of this if necessary)

Fight takes place in the streets at the middle of Academy City.

Shanavsblaze
Damn she is cute

To Aru Kamijou Touma (Divine Gate)
A better/cooler pic. for Touma


Flame Loli Chick: 1 (Jasonsith)

The Boy Who Purifies God: 7 (XDragnoir, Everything12, GilgaArcuied, Ciruno Fortes, LSirLancelotDuLacl, Chardee, Kruull Thrull)


Inconclusive: 1 (Xmark12)


This OST plays in the background:

To Aru Majutsu no Index OST 2 - Gensou Koroshi-0
To Aru Majutsu no Index OST 2 - Gensou Koroshi-0
 
Questions before commenting properly:

Is her fire magic or natural fire?

Is her weapon made of magic?

Is Tenmoku Ikko magic in nature?

Touma can't really do anything against a flying opponent, but if she stays on the ground long enough he can probably knock her out.
 
Xmark12 said:
Questions before commenting properly:
Is her fire magic or natural fire?

Is her weapon made of magic?

Is Tenmoku Ikko magic in nature?

Touma can't really do anything against a flying opponent, but if she stays on the ground long enough he can probably knock her out.
Click to expand...
Have you watched the Shakugan no Shana series, btw?

Also, I'll answer your questions here in order:

1. Yes, her fire manipulation is magic-based

2. Physically, her sword seems to be a conventional weapon, so no.

3. Yes, and it inhabits the sword from the previous question, giving it high strength and durability as well as the ability to ignore conventional durability.
 
What stops Shana from just slicing Touma in half?
 
Xmark12 said:
What stops Shana from just slicing Touma in half?
Click to expand...
Likely this from Touma's profile.

  • Precognition: Literally referred in the original Japanese novels as Premonition Perception or Sense of Foreboding (ÕëìÕàåÒü«µäƒþƒÑ Zenchō no Kanchi), but translated as Precognition in the fan translation for simplicity. Precognition is the term used by characters to refer to the skill unconsciously developed by Kamijou Touma through his many battles. Touma has gotten into such a plethora of fights that he now can subconsciously anticipate attacks coming his way. Combined with his reflexes and the courage to keep his body and thoughts moving allows him to judge accurately what to do next. This works because Touma is capable of unconsciously analyzing minute changes in the battlefield and involuntary movements made by his enemies that likely not even they are aware of. For example, Misaka Mikoto's electromagnetic fields making metal items around her resonate. Even if Touma doesn't consciously register these things, his unconscious does, allowing him to accurately predict the path of an attack and move his body accordingly to stop it with Imagine Breaker, dodge it or try to reduce the damage to his vitals in case the former two options aren't possible. It's because of this skill that Touma has been able to react to supersonic attacks, but it's been noted that if he consciously takes note of it in battle and tries to use it then it would likely fail. Due to the mechanics of this skill, it can be sealed by an opponent who can restrict the information he receives, like the cyborg Rensa who could completely freeze her face and control all of her body involuntary muscular movements. This skill can be more simply described as a "sixth sense" to react to upcoming attacks.
 
Assume Shana is physical only with her physical body and her sword, she is still a flight user. But then Touma is used to fighting air borne enemies and without effective range attack the boy would just need one hit to knock her down.

But the girl is smart enough to try to do environment damage to incapacitate the boy, when the environment damage is not magical. (Say, her fire is magical, but the fire on the grassland that the boy is standing on is not.)

Voting for the girl by being smart enough to cause wildfire to trigger Smokey Bear.

(Off topic: can he finish a cake for instance?)
 
Jasonsith said:
Assume Shana is physical only with her physical body and her sword, she is still a flight user. But then Touma is used to fighting air borne enemies and without effective range attack the boy would just need one hit to knock her down.
But the girl is smart enough to try to do environment damage to incapacitate the boy, when the environment damage is not magical. (Say, her fire is magical, but the fire on the grassland that the boy is standing on is not.)

Voting for the girl by being smart enough to cause wildfire to trigger Smokey Bear.

(Off topic: can he finish a cake for instance?)
Click to expand...
That is a good point. I do wish we have more people here knowledgeable on Shakugan no Shana, since I've only watched the anime and never touched the LN. It does depend on what she uses first in-character, considering this is a match where both sides are initially unaware of each other's abilities, ofc.

P.S. Don't worry, I'll record the vote for now.
 
Dargoo Faust said:
this is somehow not above extended melee rangeTouma's premonition + imagine breaker should deal with most of Shana's stuff, although her indirectly harming him might prove hard on him.
Click to expand...
tbf, that only happens if Touma's right hand gets sliced off during the fight. Now that could likely happen because as mentioned before, Shana here will have no prior knowledge to IB nor the power beyond it.

P.S. Yea idk why it doesn't have a label for extended melee range. Also, can you share this thread with others, please? I don't feel like the Voting Thread is enough :P
 
Would u call it a fair fight if an APACHE and a bunker with no weapon clashed ? Cause that's basically what this is, touma doesn't have jet packs
 
no when they had access to flight he could do nothing, hell even a dragon he could negate almost killed him, and he could only run

he doesn't have any ranged attacks
 
As it seems to me, Shana's best abilities can be countered by Touma, and as far as I can remember, she tends to prefer hand-to-hand fighting than to attack from a distance.
 
I would say touma is severely disadvantaged, but that he's also not completely helpless.

Asides from his already mentioned difficulties dealing with flying enemies he could literally one-shot by touching, Touma can negate magic, but he can only do so with his right hand. Enemies that can attack from multiple directions have, time and time again, proven to be an extremely hard threat for him to deal with, which shana could do with her summons or by just fire + sword combination attacks.

There are a few scenarios in which he could win, most of which would involve his right hand being chopped off accidentally mid battle (hard to happen, extremely out of character for him to do it himself) or extremely lucky specific sequences of actions that could lead him to be able to punch her face in without her being able to fight back. In most cases, Shana wins due to much more versatile attack options that have always proven troublesome for Touma to deal with.

I say shana wins 9/10 matches with varying difficulties from medium to hard depending on how things play out.
 
Does she start out with ranger attacks in-character, though? From what I saw in the anime, at least, most of the time not. Also, while both sides look at each other as enemies, Shana is likely not gonna know that this regular looking high school boy with a deus ex magic killer for his right hand. Touma, on the other hand, will likely see Shana as a high level Esper.
 
I do agree that she wouldn't start with ranged attacks right off the bat, but touma is also likely to have a fairly hard time decisively overpowering her in a short hand to hand combat. Touma's offensive options are extremely poor against her, but he can also handle her sword slashes or basic magic attacks without too much of a hurdle. Against an enemy that won't budge and is capable of negating what she throws at him, she would definitely switch to her other offensive options and start using flight, summons, combinations and environmental damage.

9/10 for Shana is probably a bit too much of an exageration, since Touma is in fact no slouch at hand to hand combat and he's managed to do some pretty impressive stuff before. I still can't see him winning more than 2~3/10 times, and I do think she's pretty favored all in all.


EDIT: Not much to do with anything other than just being a chance for me to gush over two series I like, but realistically, Touma's way of dealing with her would probably be talking the girl down or asking a different character for help. Index has plenty of powerhouses that can body her, but I think our unlucky boy has a hard time dealing with an opponent like this in an isolated deathmatch. That said, it happening in the middle of academy city would probably make him go as seriously as he possibly could in character once she starts dealing environmental damage.
 
Thanks for the input, and yes, I liked both series, too, though Index s3 is really a mess right now....rip :P
 
If Shana does not start with a distance fight, then the chance of her losing early is too high, Touma has precog that can be very useful in situations like this, and since he only needs 1 punch to finish the fight, I can see him winning as many times as Shana. Btw, I find it strange that this fight has not been done before, these 2 have a lot in common.
 
XDragnoir said:
If Shana does not start with a distance fight, then the chance of her losing early is too high, Touma has precog that can be very useful in situations like this, and since he only needs 1 punch to finish the fight, I can see him winning as many times as Shana. Btw, I find it strange that this fight has not been done before, these 2 have a lot in common.
Click to expand...
Then boy, I'm glad I'm the one to start it. Now if only this gets more attention. I mean, the To Aru verse is still pretty popular on this wiki, right?
 
If she goes in melee combat instead of ranged, then they have an equal chance of one shotting the other. Shana with a variety of abilities, and with Touma a mix of precog and one good equality punch.

Going inconclusive here.
 
Inconclusive to be honest. Touma would just run away and hide till Shana comes down and deals with him on the ground and he's dealt with enemies which are multitude way more ridiculous than what Shana can do and his stamina is beyond ridiculous for a supposed human.
 
Kruull Thrull said:
Inconclusive to be honest. Touma would just run away and hide till Shana comes down and deals with him on the ground and he's dealt with enemies which are multitude way more ridiculous than what Shana can do and his stamina is beyond ridiculous for a supposed human.
Click to expand...
I wish more people took into account of how Touma's durability physically is actually not that bad. From what I've seen, it's at least Wall Level, likely Small Building level...but hey, I guess that's just me...not like I want someone to confirm that :\
 
Dragopentling said:
Kruull Thrull said:
Inconclusive to be honest. Touma would just run away and hide till Shana comes down and deals with him on the ground and he's dealt with enemies which are multitude way more ridiculous than what Shana can do and his stamina is beyond ridiculous for a supposed human.
Click to expand...
I wish more people took into account of how Touma's durability physically is actually not that bad. From what I've seen, it's at least Wall Level, likely Small Building level...but hey, I guess that's just me...not like I want someone to confirm that :\
Click to expand...
Honestly, I'd consider him small building level to building level.

Well,he's been shocked multiple times by Misaka and got up. Mind you that electricity was so strong it cracked the asphalt they were standing on.

He also shrugs off the pain of his arm getting cut off and proceeds to walk to said person who just cut it.

Manages to survive Accelerator's onslaught like a dust explosion, flung in the air like a ragdoll and multiple other ridiculous feats

Edit:

So I assume that the win condition for Touma is KO while Shana's is???
 
Kruull Thrull said:
Dragopentling said:
Kruull Thrull said:
Inconclusive to be honest. Touma would just run away and hide till Shana comes down and deals with him on the ground and he's dealt with enemies which are multitude way more ridiculous than what Shana can do and his stamina is beyond ridiculous for a supposed human.
Click to expand...
I wish more people took into account of how Touma's durability physically is actually not that bad. From what I've seen, it's at least Wall Level, likely Small Building level...but hey, I guess that's just me...not like I want someone to confirm that :\
Click to expand...
Honestly, I'd consider him small building level to building level.
Well,he's been shocked multiple times by Misaka and got up. Mind you that electricity was so strong it cracked the asphalt they were standing on.

He also shrugs off the pain of his arm getting cut off and proceeds to walk to said person who just cut it.

Manages to survive Accelerator's onslaught like a dust explosion, flung in the air like a ragdoll and multiple other ridiculous feats

Edit:

So I assume that the win condition for Touma is KO while Shana's is???
Click to expand...
He's also taken hard beatings from Aqua, and even though he couldn't even put up much of a fight, he clearly did survive.

Win conditions for both sides are practically the same here, though Touma's will be more focused on incapicating than killing. Shana's priority is likely to KO or kill if necessary.
 
voting in Touma because he can end the fight with a punch, and due to Precog and have already endured many absurd beatings, he seems to me to be the most likely to end the fight, although he will have many difficulties.
 
Correct me if wrong, but as someone who has watched all the anime of Shakugan no Shana isn't her range solely because of the MAGIC fire. As previously stated, Shana is someone who primarily fights close quarters, even when she isn't having her fire nullified, and she primarily uses here fire to coat her sword in flames and rarely uses it for projectiles.

What likely to happen is Shana starts by attacking Touma up close, but Touma uses his precognition to dodge all of these attacks, and either Touma manages to knock her out or Shana tries with a wave of fire which Touma nullifies, what I see happening is either Shana keeps uses the fire to attack Touma until she figures out he's only using his right hand and manages to cut it off, what happens after that is easy to guess, or she goes back to close combat and then gets knocked out after Touam dodges alot. So I vote Touma
 
Everything12 said:
Correct me if wrong, but as someone who has watched all the anime of Shakugan no Shana isn't her range solely because of the MAGIC fire. As previously stated, Shana is someone who primarily fights close quarters, even when she isn't having her fire nullified, and she primarily uses here fire to coat her sword in flames and rarely uses it for projectiles.
What likely to happen is Shana starts by attacking Touma up close, but Touma uses his precognition to dodge all of these attacks, and either Touma manages to knock her out or Shana tries with a wave of fire which Touma nullifies, what I see happening is either Shana keeps uses the fire to attack Touma until she figures out he's only using his right hand and manages to cut it off, what happens after that is easy to guess, or she goes back to close combat and then gets knocked out after Touam dodges alot. So I vote Touma
Click to expand...
Nice to hear from someone else who also watched all three seasons and the S episodes. Yea, I figured myself that's how the fight would likely go down. Also, in-character, Shana isn't actually as intelligent as opponents that Touma has fought before, so it would take her quite some time to figure out that her stuff ain't working until it's too late.
 
Would this mean Fuzetsu is raised and Shana would immediately realize that Touma can negate any sort of supernatural attack? At least not fully initially, but conclude it.


On the other hand she does use a blade and using any blade to cut off Touma's arms never ever goes well. Gonna vote Touma here. I thought the flight range would be an issue but if you think about it Shana can't really hurt Touma from the sky either unless she purposely drops a building.

And sick match. Two fave characters of mine, and more spotlight for Shana.
 
Wait... do correct me if wrong Drago, but aren't both her sword and the pendant where Alastor is magical? At least I remember Nietono being a Treasure Tool, and if he touches the pendant...

As for flight, it's a big pain in the ass but it's not insurmountable even if she decides to use it. They would be in academy city, and Touma is no stranger to running the hell away to find something to abuse or a better area where to battle, like a building with a certain ceiling height or baiting her somewhere he could abuse to reach.
 
^ So everyone except me is saying this is female Metal Man versus male Gibril that male Gibril need simply one touch to end things while female Metal Man has almost no means to possibly damage the male Gibril except environmental damage (which ironically makes this match not a stomp)?
 
I am merely confirming. Touma has no way to know this sword is magical and is more likely to be evading around unless forced, and she still has the skill to likely cut him where it'll hurt. Just trying to check with Drago to be sure.
 
Won't his precog make him know to block the sword? That does become an issue if nothing Shana can do hurts Touma.
 
No? He's able to read movements and know the best move to do in accordance, he doesn't just see the future or know that this or that is a magical artifact. He's likely to come to the conclusion at some point as Touma became so used to magicians he didn't need Index's help deciphering the details of their magic methods in later arcs, but it shouldn't be ouright evident.
 
Even if he doesn't know about the properties of the sword, his precog will most likely help him dodge it, and you'd have to think he'd be always reaching with his right hand, so if Shana does swing her sword, she's definitely slicing off the right hand first......and then Big Ol Dragons or the Invisible Thing comes out and we pretty much know what happens from there.
 
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