Sans vs Kamijou Touma

[FantaRin_The_First]

I missed you Fanta

I never left, lel. Just been a busybody cuz of life and gacha games, tbh.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Oh. Crud. There is "sorta" another win-con for Sans.

Talking, ie, social influencing Touma to frick off. This sort of thing is a viable win-con thanks to the existence of profiles with wins due to SI like Courier Six, for example.

More importantly, though... Sans was able to convince Frisk/Chara to put down their weapon and stop fight despite them being a cold-blooded murder that killed their way through an entire kingdom with no regard for whatever was in their way-be it a child, a merciful skeleton or a true hero. So if he tries to SI Touma to stop fighting, it might work.

... Also, he could possibly force a incon by choosing to do nothing-trapping Touma and him in-place until the latter gives up or starves to death. After all, IB's power nullification hasn't shown the ability to negate a combat-applicable forth wall break, kek.

 

[CrackerVolley]

Mostly cuz verse equalization makes this topic really confusing for a dumbass ******* like me

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Sans most certainly would convince Touma, I will keep my vote on Sans for Fanta's reasoning

Touma is not a battle junkie and i believe he prefers peace, So i will keep my vote

 

[CrackerVolley]

I'm reminded about a match where I got chastised for trying argue in a match that someone's decent enough SI was enough to make it inconclusive. Then again, I don't really remember most of it so I'm petty enough to shut it down here.

Anyways, I do have a question I want answered out of curiosity before I make a vote.

A few of Sans's abilities seem like they would have weird interactions with Imagine Breaker. I'm mostly thinking about stuff like Time Stop and Gravity Manipulation since those might(?) be able to affect Touma's whole body excluding the arm. Is there any scenarios that give us a bit more insight on how that works?

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

I'm reminded about a match where I got chastised for trying argue in a match that someone's decent enough SI was enough to make it inconclusive. Then again, I don't really remember most of it so I'm petty enough to shut it down here.

Anyways, I do have a question I want answered out of curiosity before I make a vote.

A few of Sans's abilities seem like they would have weird interactions with Imagine Breaker. I'm mostly thinking about stuff like Time Stop and Gravity Manipulation since those might(?) be able to affect Touma's whole body excluding the arm. Is there any scenarios that give us a bit more insight on how that works?

Kek.

Well... Touma has "encountered" a time stop a few times, IIRC. Although, if my memory serves me right, IB didn't really negate it moreso allowed Touma to retain the ability to think and speak but not much else. Isn't too useful. Honestly on the topic of Sans' Gravity Manip, I am not entirely sure.

Honestly, the big issue is Touma legit only has one method of killing/defeating Sans, which is touching him with his right hand... Which is pretty hard considering Sans is over a hundred times stronger in AP and Dura, retains greater reaction speed, IA that allowed him to dodge attacks while he is asleep and a skill advantage.

Like... Touma mainly just fights unskilled street thugs and squishy magicians with no H2H skills and immediately gets folded by any skilled martial artist in-verse (and only "keeps up" via sheer endurance more than anything else). Sure, he is good at dealing with danmaku, but anything other than that is pretty lacking.

Meanwhile, Sans can fight the likes of Chara/Frisk-whom can defeat Undyne, who is a trained knight that has been personally trained by Asgore who survived the Human-Monster War-and can keep dodging their attacks even after they have perfectly memorized his attack patterns and can only be tagged by them breaking the rules of their verse.

... Also, if all else fails, Sans can still pull a Deadpool and break the forth wall as a viable in-con or win-con, if needs be.

 

[XDragnoir]

If Sans can do all that and absolutely nothing Touma can do will even work then just close this thread and don't make another Touma vs Undertale, thanks.

 

[CrackerVolley]

I mean, it's not like all the Monsters are as cracked as Sans. And they all posess the same weakness against Touma since they're made of magic.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

If Sans can do all that and absolutely nothing Touma can do will even work then just close this thread and don't make another Touma vs Undertale, thanks.

I mean, it's not like all the Monsters are as cracked as Sans. And they all posess the same weakness against Touma since they're made of magic.

Yeah, Sans is just weirdly powerful in VBW due to how he works and how the rules works here. Like Touma would fare much better against literally everyone else in UT ('sides Asriel and Chara/Frisk) because only Sans is this cracked up.

 

[Greatsage13th]

Yeah, Sans is just weirdly powerful in VBW due to how he works and how the rules works here. Like Touma would fare much better against literally everyone else in UT ('sides Asriel and Chara/Frisk) because only Sans is this cracked up.

Yep, it either takes a character with a moveset of haxes that dwarfs Sans' own or just a character with an unusually quirky combination of abilities.

 

[RanaProGamer]

So should I count the votes or is this a stomp?

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

So should I count the votes or is this a stomp?

It's a stomp.

 

[RanaProGamer]

It's a stomp.

Ah shucks, and it was getting very interesting. Oh well

 

[Churronzon]

If Touma either had the option to repeat the fight via a save & load mechanic or had info of 10k+ fights/losses, he would clear effortlessly. As it stands, in a random encounter, the opposite would happen.

Now for a hypothetical story.

Say there was someone with the wonderful power to save and load as much as he wanted
like in a video game. Say that person became a detective and tried to stop an unavoidable
plan to exterminate humanity that would begin in exactly one week.

Who has the advantage there? The detective or the criminal?

Normally, one would think the detective has an overwhelming advantage due to his
strange power. No matter how many times he fails, he can always try again, so it will never
end until he wins.

But that is not necessarily how it would end.

After all, after making countless attempts, the detective’s mental exhaustion would be on
an entirely different level. Even if each attempt is only a week long, four tries is about a
month and twelve sets of four is a year.

What if he continued for years or even centuries and was never able to stop the
destruction?

The direct competition between the detective and criminal would not matter.

After choosing to rush into the cage of time, wouldn’t the detective’s heart break and be
crushed?

Yes.

The detective with the power to save and load would have another option.
When faced by too great a challenge, he could switch off the game and give up.

♦

In the end, Kamijou Touma’s battle was the exact same thing.

“All that’s left is a test of endurance. Let’s repeat this billions or even trillions of times.
I’m returning to the original world. I won’t move on to the next world. The original world
I’m talking about might be different from the original world you’re thinking of, but I’m
going to force this through regardless. Do you understand, Othinus? I’m saying I’ll make
my dream come true even if it crushes yours!!”

“Even if I’d lose to someone else, I will defeat you. Our specs no longer matter, Othinus.
My experience has surpassed a certain point. Even if I was blindfolded and I held the
controller behind my back, I could try for a no miss clear.”