• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Won't this make Sans vs Galactus a stomp then? (I think you participated in it)
Pretty sure that applies only to his slamming as it's the only attack he had without KR, however KR based attacks not really as they kill ya if you're constantly hit for enough time.

But this going off topic.

Would Touma be able to counter that slam, btw? If you have scans showing him countering TK ofc.
 
Your quote seems more about him redirecting a single dagger so that it caused a chain reaction which made a wide space for him to get in.

Clearly not the same as laser-shooting flying giant skulls that Sans can freely control.

Any scans on how he dodged that lightning, by the way? The profile seems to say that's through aim dodging rather than actual reaction speed, and that if attacks are simply too fast for him to even react, then he likely wouldn't be able to.
Might be helpful in a match against Undyne or smth, though. Idk for sure.

Adding onto this, the blaser fire a continuous beam of energy, ye? Touma's power null fares rather terrible against attacks like that in the sense that he would only block the beam and won't be able to fully nullify it outright unless he somehow touches the flying giant skull with his right hand.

He just reacted and moved after the lightning was fired to nullify it. This is even shown in a few manga panels, so there are visuals for it.... still need the calcs for it to be approved, tho. oof.

... Anyways. Is everybody ignoring the elephant in the room? Sans will get the first move due to his kit and the fact that Touma is just a h2h merchant. He can't resist Sans' slam due to the fact that IB does jack shit to things that aren't affect Touma's right hand. He'll either get turned to paste via the slam or any of Sans' attacks grazing him thanks to Sans being 130x stronger than Touma.
 
Any scans on how he dodged that lightning, by the way? The profile seems to say that's through aim dodging rather than actual reaction speed, and that if attacks are simply too fast for him to even react, then he likely wouldn't be able to.
He has bizarrely insane instincts/analytical prediction against supernatural stuff, it has nothing to do with his reaction speed, reason why I said "dealt with" and not "reacted to", mind you.


^here you will find Touma doing it while talking with another guy (speed feat for the other guy, precog only for Touma, as a heads up) and this is just one of the examples (you can find more if you search Touma vs Mikoto on youtube) and the arrows feat provided earlier are accepted as MFTL+ on the wiki.


Your quote seems more about him redirecting a single dagger so that it caused a chain reaction which made a wide space for him to get in.

Clearly not the same as laser-shooting flying giant skulls that Sans can freely control.
Anyway, I think you're not getting the point overall, regardless of what Sans is doing, if it's a laser, skulls or whatever else, Touma has dealt with way crazier stuff and still found a way around them.

Like, what do you think these lasers would be effectively doing? The feats that were provided already show that Touma can deal with heavy danmaku, blitzing attacks and lots other stuff, what makes these lasers an actual threat?
 
Like, what do you think these lasers would be effectively doing? The feats that were provided already show that Touma can deal with heavy danmaku, blitzing attacks and lots other stuff, what makes these lasers an actual threat?
The fact that while Touma blocks 1, 3 or 5 will show up and attack him from his sides and behind him
 
Anyway, I think you're not getting the point overall, regardless of what Sans is doing, if it's a laser, skulls or whatever else, Touma has dealt with way crazier stuff and still found a way around them.

Like, what do you think these lasers would be effectively doing? The feats that were provided already show that Touma can deal with heavy danmaku, blitzing attacks and lots other stuff, what makes these lasers an actual threat?
Dude, you're unironically using a "he deflected a dagger to create an opening between many daggers" to "he can deal with fuckloads of flying energy blasters", this is genuinely just blind faith tbh.

Plus about the lightning stuff, cool ig?

Regardless you didn't counter the slamming part yet, so.
 
The fact that while Touma blocks 1, 3 or 5 will show up and attack him from his sides and behind him
He can deal with that, as shown with Othinus danmaku of arrows with MFTL+ speed and not only that, there are arrows comes from another dimension between that. Like Dragnoir said, even he can only blocks 1, 3, or 5, with his instinct he can find safe space no matter what. It's not NLF because Othinus feats far better than what Sans has.
 
His telekinesis works by controlling Touma itself or no? Because Touma can negate supernatural effect if it's have direct contact with his whole body.

When Himegami affected by Death Manipulation of Ars Magna and near-death, Touma can negate it's effect. Telepathy can't reach Touma. Healing spell can't cure Touma when he has that right hand. So if the telekinesis works by controlling his whole body, he can negate it.
 
His telekinesis works by controlling Touma itself or no? Because Touma can negate supernatural effect if it's have direct contact with his whole body.
It works by controlling Touma's soul to indirectly move him to which ever direction that Sans wants to throw him. Touma can't really touch his "soul" and in main canon Itsuwa has shown that any supernatural effect can affect Touma as long as it doesn't his right hand-or like when Misaki used Mental Out on him without issue and he could only dispel it by touching his head.

IMO, Sans' magic shouldn't have any issue in affecting him.
 
It works by controlling Touma's soul to indirectly move him to which ever direction that Sans wants to throw him. Touma can't really touch his "soul" and in main canon Itsuwa has shown that any supernatural effect can affect Touma as long as it doesn't his right hand-or like when Misaki used Mental Out on him without issue and he could only dispel it by touching his head.

IMO, Sans' magic shouldn't have any issue in affecting him.
What? Touma's soul can't be interacted with due to IB, that's why he wasn't affected by Angel Fall, also the same reason St. Germain had to create magic with the lifeforce from other parts of his soul/body that didn't flow through his right hand.

The fact that while Touma blocks 1, 3 or 5 will show up and attack him from his sides and behind him
Did you read his other feats? MFTL+ attacks spawning from his sides or from behind him didn't stop him from nulling or evading all of them, Sans is nowhere close to the speed or amount of projectiles needed to deal with Touma's precog.

Dude, you're unironically using a "he deflected a dagger to create an opening between many daggers" to "he can deal with fuckloads of flying energy blasters", this is genuinely just blind faith tbh.

Plus about the lightning stuff, cool ig?

Regardless you didn't counter the slamming part yet, so.
Are you being for real? He didn't just "deflect" a dagger, he used his power null to create a chain reaction where not even 1 among literally hundreds of thousands of daggers coming from everywhere could hit him.

We provided feats where he deals with MFTL+ arrows from different directions (which he could avoid some without IB and null/redirect others with it), MHS+ lightning he wasn't even looking at while distracted, thousands of daggers coming from everywhere specifically to take advantage of his power null range limit, meanwhile all y'all have said is "sans will spawn a 2 lasers behind him" and I am the one arguing in bad faith?

You're straight up ignoring feats and I am the one arguing in bad faith? Nice

If the slamming part has to do with TK then I answered it above.
 
Last edited:
Yea, forgot about this.
Honestly, same.
Did you read his other feats? MFTL+ attacks spawning from his sides or from behind him didn't stop him from nulling or evading all of them, Sans is nowhere close to the speed or amount of projectiles needed to deal with Touma's precog.


Are you being for real? He didn't just "deflect" a dagger, he used his power null to create a chain reaction where not even 1 among literally hundreds of thousands of daggers coming from everywhere could hit him.

We provided feats where he deals with MFTL+ arrows from different directions (which he could avoid some without IB and null/redirect others with it), MHS+ lightning he wasn't even looking at while distracted, thousands of daggers coming from everywhere specifically to take advantage of his power null range limit, meanwhile all y'all have said is "sans will spawn a 2 lasers behind him" and I am the one arguing in bad faith?

You're straight up ignoring feats and I am the one arguing in bad faith? Nice

If the slamming part has to do with TK then I answered it above.
Sadly, these parts can't be used since it isn't on the profile. As it stands, Touma's precog in his speed section, which doesn't suit the current format for speed in profiles ngl, only makes it so he can react to things that are 'higher' than peak human speeds, if I am not wrong.

... Before you ask, Noir, we are only the CRT limit for the verse, if I am not mistaken, so can't make a CRT rn to fix it. And ye, before you ask, I am also pestering a few mods to look at the CRTs in question, so I can do the speed fixes for Touma.
 
I'd like to point out that Touma was able to dodge and negate 100 of Accelerator's 100 meter black wings.
 
Last edited:
Sadly, these parts can't be used since it isn't on the profile. As it stands, Touma's precog in his speed section, which doesn't suit the current format for speed in profiles ngl, only makes it so he can react to things that are 'higher' than peak human speeds, if I am not wrong.
That's not how it works, his precog isn't part of his reaction speed nor his perception speed so what you're saying simply doesn't apply to it, other characters have the same kind of ability as Touma and they also don't have it listed as a separate speed category like "ftl" or whatever, precog doesn't need that.
 
That's not how it works, his precog isn't part of his reaction speed nor his perception speed so what you're saying simply doesn't apply to it, other characters have the same kind of ability as Touma and they also don't have it listed as a separate speed category like "ftl" or whatever, precog doesn't need that.
I'd like to point out that Touma was able to dodge and negate 100 of Accelerator's 100 meter black wings.
Ignoring the fact that Rensa flat-out stated his "precog" gives a massive increase to his reactions, Touma's weirdly consistent ability to slow down his preception to aid in his reacting and the simple fact Touma's precog isn't actually true precog but more so him looking at a person's unconscious movements + utilizing his past experiences in order to guesstimate attacks in order to dodge/react...

Sans has the advantage of having reaction speed that allows them to consistently evade Frisk's attacks despite amp-ing their speed and having complete knowledge of what Sans is going due to RESET with his blasters having speed greater than even that with all of this still remaining despite speed equal due to its weird rules-thus, Sans' will always having greater speed than Touma with attacks that can move even more faster than him.

Basically, Sans has a shit-ton of advantages that will remain even if the distance between Touma and him were reduced to a single meter. And again this is also ignoring the fact Sans can vaporize Touma with a finger poke due to the skeleton being 130x more stronger.

TLDR: VBW!Sans is an unholy beast with tricks that a lot of characters in the site can't beat.
 
Ignoring the fact that Rensa flat-out stated his "precog" gives a massive increase to his reactions, Touma's weirdly consistent ability to slow down his preception to aid in his reacting and the simple fact Touma's precog isn't actually true precog but more so him looking at a person's unconscious movements + utilizing his past experiences in order to guesstimate attacks in order to dodge/react...
Yes, because he can effectively react to things, but it's not what the wiki defines as speed reaction, same word doesn't always means the same thing. Also, the "slow down his perception" bit isn't that consistent iirc, I only recall that happening in the fight with Trismegisto, not sure how many times it happened before that but I can think of quite a few times where his precog didn't do that, talking about "precog":

Why are you bringing the name here now? I know it's not "actual precognition", which isn't true going by the wiki definition of precognition anyway, as he has Analytical Prediction (which is a category of Precognition in the wiki) and he also has Instinctive Action/Reaction anyway, there was no need for you to bring this up at all.
Sans has the advantage of having reaction speed that allows them to consistently evade Frisk's attacks despite amp-ing their speed and having complete knowledge of what Sans is going due to RESET with his blasters having speed greater than even that with all of this still remaining despite speed equal due to its weird rules-thus, Sans' will always having greater speed than Touma with attacks that can move even more faster than him.
What? Like, why are you still discussing speed? It doesn't matter if Sans lasers are twice, thrice or how many times faster than Touma's combat speed, literally doesn't matter, his precog has dealt with way worse stuff already, Mikoto's lightning is already accepted as MHS+ and he has dealt with it dozens of times already, why are we still wasting time on this same point?

Basically, Sans has a shit-ton of advantages that will remain even if the distance between Touma and him were reduced to a single meter. And again this is also ignoring the fact Sans can vaporize Touma with a finger poke due to the skeleton being 130x more stronger.
And Touma can just straight up kill him, erase him for good, with a single touch as well, so what's your point? Indeed, Sans simply doesn't have any meaningful advantage here so far, all of his hax/stats advantages that were brought up so far were already shown to be ineffective against Touma.
 
Dude, you're unironically using a "he deflected a dagger to create an opening between many daggers" to "he can deal with fuckloads of flying energy blasters", this is genuinely just blind faith tbh.
The many in question here amounts to hundreds of thousands of water daggers aimed specifically at him
 
Back
Top