Golden Frieza vs. Ultra Instinct Goku.

Golden Frieza (Broly-arc) fights against Ultra Instinct -Sign- Son Goku (ToP-arc) . Both Low 2-C

Round 1: UIO2 Goku.

Round 2: UIO3 Goku (this is the important match and main focus).

Bonus Round: Can Golden Frieza survive enough against MUI Goku?

who wins?

Round 1

Well, SSB Goku is stronger than UIO1 Goku and SSBE Vegeta is comparable to that but times 20. It's generally agreed upon that Frieza could defeat Toppo pretty easily based on his novel feats and ability to tank Broly for over an hour (who he states no one in existence can defeat based on how Broly had beaten him). UIO is agreed to be a 40x multiplier as a minimum so it, overall, makes sense that SSBKKX20 Goku may be stronger than UIO2 Goku or comparable.

It has been suggested and agreed upon by some people that SSB Goku and Vegeta should be treated as if they were using SSBKKX20/SSBE/Their extensions of Blue due to the film depicting Blue as their strongest forms but this is a completely different topic to consider.

Goku broke his limits two more times with UIO3 and MUI which would have made him dozens, if not hundreds, of times stronger than he was after UIO2 so...if Frieza scales above him or comparable to him then I am very confident in stating that Frieza would outplay and ultimately defeat UIO2 Goku via superior physicals.

Round 2

UIO3 Goku is, at a minimum, 40x that of Post-UIO2 Goku or 2x SSBKKX20 Goku. As I stated above Frieza should be considered dozens of times or hundreds of times stronger than Post-UIO2 SSB Goku as a result of Frieza's feats surpassing Post-MUI SSB Goku.

I feel as if Frieza could defeat UIO3 Goku via an argument for him scaling to a much higher level of power but I think I will wait to see what other people have to say before I start making those arguments.

Bonus Round:

Hah funny story. While I think UIO3 is questionable for Frieza to defeat I do, in-fact, think a very strong argument could be made for Frieza defeating MUI Goku.

Frieza deemed Broly the strongest being in-existence, even above GoD Toppo, UIO Goku and arguably Beerus. He also arguably would have sensed LB Jiren's power (who was vastly above UIO3 Goku and could outplay MUI Goku) and could be argued to have stated that SS Broly > LB Jiren.

If this statement is truly including LB Jiren then Frieza, who tanked someone stronger than LB Jiren for over an hour, should be capable of easily tanking MUI Goku for the...I forget, minute or two? that Goku can stay in MUI for. Then Frieza could simply kill him.

An interesting and vital aspect to consider for this battle should be mentioned before I leave for a while.

Can Frieza freeze UIO2/UIO3 Goku with telekinesis? Can Goku somehow dodge a psychokinetic energy field? If Frieza has close enough physicals to match or outspeed Goku then I don't see how Goku is going to be countering telekinesis.

You just said that UIO3 could be argued

then said that Frieza could manhandle MUI Goku

wut

Anyways, Goku via likely superior stats, Instinctive Reaction, and better intel

Since it's unreasonable to assume that Post ToP Blue Goku and Vegeta individually could beat MUI Goku, unless you can prove that Goku and Vegeta became 40 times (possibly far, FAR higher) stronger than their ToP incarnations. Frieza still scales to these 2 saiyans

Even if you assume that Frieza > MUI Goku in stats, Goku's gonna keep getting stronger over time with Ultra Instinct (via adapting) as well as Zenkai Boosts, so it's likely that Goku could bridge and surpass the questionable gap between them and stomp Frieza.

The way I see it Goku'd need a massive stat advantage to defeat Freeza before he runs out of energy/loses the UIO/MUI. This Freeza can hold against characters as strong as Broly for an hour and Goku only lasts a few minutes at most.

That's all he needs here. Goku's Instinctive Reaction and RPL is good but I'm not sure he'd be able to create a gap larger between him and Freeza than the one that exists between Broly and Freeza.

Calaca Vs said:

The way I see it Goku'd need a massive stat advantage to defeat Freeza before he runs out of energy/loses the UIO/MUI. This Freeza can hold against characters as strong as Broly for an hour and Goku only lasts a few minutes at most.
That's all he needs here. Goku's Instinctive Reaction and RPL is good but I'm not sure he'd be able to create a gap larger between him and Freeza than the one that exists between Broly and Freeza.

Click to expand...

Frieza doesn't have a massive stat advantage against Goku,. Prove that normal SSGSS Goku in the movie is superior to ToP SSGSS Kaioken x20 Goku, SSGSS Evolved Vegeta, AND 17 at the same time. MUI Goku is far, FAR superior to all 3 combined. He'd have to become bare minimum 40 times stronger, and that's a massive understatement

also you still didn't address your "UIO3 = Golden Frieza > MUI" problem

I never argued about Freeza being even superior to Goku. What I said is that I doubt UIO3 Goku is as superior compared to Freeza as Broly is.

Mickey1940 said:

You just said that UIO3 could be argued
then said that Frieza could manhandle MUI Goku

wut

Anyways, Goku via likely superior stats, Instinctive Reaction, and better intel

Since it's unreasonable to assume that Post ToP Blue Goku and Vegeta individually could beat MUI Goku, unless you can prove that Goku and Vegeta became 40 times (possibly far, FAR higher) stronger than their ToP incarnations. Frieza still scales to these 2 saiyans

Even if you assume that Frieza > MUI Goku in stats, Goku's gonna keep getting stronger over time with Ultra Instinct (via adapting) as well as Zenkai Boosts, so it's likely that Goku could bridge and surpass the questionable gap between them and stomp Frieza.

Click to expand...

Uh, what? I didn't say Frieza could 'manhandle' MUI Goku. I said that if he could tank SS Broly for over an hour he might be capable of tanking MUI Goku for the minute or so before Goku gets hit by the drawback.

Frieza should scale above the two saiyans considering that the wiki is considering the novel as canon and with that in-mind he could tank Broly for over an hour and phase him with his punches, even forcing him to dodge, whereas Goku and Vegeta could barely do that with combination attacks.

The rationale that Frieza scales above UIO2 Goku is also very simple considering that Post-UIO2 Goku was stronger than UIO1 Goku and then proceded to break his limits two more times, once with UIO3 and once more with MUI. Logically speaking it makes sense to think that Post-ToP SSB Goku > UIO2 Goku and wouldn't be too far from the level of power displayed by UIO3 Goku.

Goku's growth in Ultra Instinct is arguably a result of him mastering the state and not actual reactive evolution (Like how he mastered Super Saiyan God's power by using it over time and adapted to the form's power) but that's a totally different argument.

Essentially the argument comes down to this:


Frieza is already stronger than UIO1 Goku by a great deal via him scaling above Post-ToP Goku who was already stronger than UIO1 Goku after going UIO2.

Goku should be considered above UIO2 as a result of him going UIO3...so Post-UIO3 Goku should, based on the scaling presented in the anime, surpass UIO2 Goku in Blue and then, finally, MUI Goku would have likely broken his limits further.

Based upon statements for the film itself we know Goku is 'approaching the level of the gods' and that Vegeta is struggling to catch up. With that in-mind, if they refer to the gods of destruction, then it is logical that Post-ToP Goku is near the level of UIO3 Goku (which was stated in a magazine scan to potentially surpass Beerus...albeit the legitimacy of such a scan is questionable at best).

We also have to consider that SSB Goku was stronger than UIO1 Goku when fighting with barely any stamina and heavily damaged and would have also gained numerous zenkai boosts after his feat of pushing Jiren harder.

Overall, I believe Post-ToP Goku scaling to or above UIO2 Goku to be reasonable and that Frieza scales above that level.

Legendary SSJ broly laid his hands on frieza for 1 hour and frieza was still fine after that , beaten up , but in no danger of dying.

frieza got this with sheer endurance and durability

@CryoTheMayo

you said that UIO3 is questionable for Frieza to defeat

gramatically speaking, this means that you thought that the idea of Frieza beating UIO3 is questionable

You went on to say that Frieza would definitely beat MUI Goku

Now do you see why I'm confused?


Also, Full Power SSJ Broly hasn't been confirmed to be superior to MUI Goku. Simply relying on Frieza's explanation of Broly being "the strongest being in existence" is not reliable, especially if you consider the fact that Frieza can't even sense Godly ki, so his ability to sense other beings is rather questionable.

Broly and MUI Goku can't be compared through scaling cause they don't have the same people to scale to. Broly is vastly superior to both Goku and Vegeta in the movie, but who knows how much of an amp Goku and Vegeta got after the ToP, and who knows if Goku and Vegeta have surpassed MUI Goku at this point.

Besides, Frieza is unquantifiably inferior to Broly, so it's not even possible to know how powerful Frieza is compared to Goku without using unreliable assumptions

Goku also has all of the abilities that Frieza has (with the exception of self-sustenance), plus far more, giving Goku a vast versatility edge as well. Even if you assume Frieza was stronger, Goku could still keep up with him with his instinctive dodging and attacking, teleportation, superior martial arts, and eventually close the gap with his reactive evolution AND zenkais

Remember, 2 minutes in Dragon Ball standards is a VERY long time, especially considering how both are massively ftl+. I'm confident in saying that Goku could close whatever gap between them within his transformation limit

2 minutes in DB is a thing.

Goku only beated Jiren with MUI with a power difference that came from a rage boost, not his own RPL.

I'll ask Peter about the scaling. He's the most knowledgeable member about the power scaling in DB I know.

I still saying that Freez WILL outlast Goku. 2 minutes is nothing tbf.

Calaca Vs said:

2 minutes in DB is a thing.
Goku only beated Jiren with MUI with a power difference that came from a rage boost, not his own RPL.

I'll ask Peter about the scaling. He's the most knowledgeable member about the power scaling in DB I know.

I still saying that Freez WILL outlast Goku. 2 minutes is nothing tbf.

Click to expand...

I thought could also boost his own power through using UI

But my point still stands until you ask Peter

So here we have Broly Saga Golden Frieza who's been stated to have gotten stronger and is now shown to be stronger than Broly Saga SSB Goku who is near the lvl of the gods such as Beerus who is comparable to the Third UIS. But it's also stated that Broly Saga Frieza is still weaker than Beerus.

So Third UIS Goku should have the AP advantage although it's probably not by thet much. Frieza has also shown that he can tank attacks from SS1 Broly who is at the very least GoD lvl since he managed to completely stomp Broly Saga SSB Goku who is near the gods. But if we go by the statement Frieza made in the light novel SS1 Broly would be stronger than Limit Break Jiren.

So Frieza is overall weaker than Third UIS Goku but he could win via outlasting Third UIS Goku's time limit. And if we accept Frieza's statement about SS1 Broly than it should also be possible for him to outlast MUI Goku until his drawbacks. But if we don't accept that statement than MUI Goku will probably just destroy him with a Kamehameha.

Beerus is comparable to Third UIS?

I'm not criticizing, just asking

https://mobile.twitter.com/Herms98/status/971664014601154560

IIRC we accept the novel as canon.

So my point stands, apparently. Freeza wins outlasting Goku.

The reasoning is simple. We know MUI can not last for much longer than a minute before Goku is completely destroyed by the drawback. Goku never left UIO3 via some form of limitation however. As such we can not actually discern how long he can use UIO3 at this point. If Goku can use UIO for, what was it? 2-3 minutes? and then transform into and handle MUI, which is practically transcendent of UIO, then how long can Goku actually stay in UIO? Presumably the period of time he can use UIO is much longer than MUI. So my rationale is that while Frieza can outlast MUI Goku there is no real evidence to state how long Goku can use UIO3 relative to his mastery with MUI.

Frieza can, in-fact, sense godly ki considering he outright compares his own energy level to SSB Goku in the RoF arc. Even ignoring that we have no reason to believe Jiren uses God Ki. As such Frieza could sense Jiren and we both know LB Jiren is far above Base Jiren who was comparable to UIO3 Goku in raw power.


It's not unquantifable how inferior Frieza is to Broly either. Where do you get that idea? It's agreed on the wiki that SS is 40-50x base and it is generally agreed that Broly was stacking Ikari and SS (so the SS Multiplier x Ikari Multiplier). With that in mind we know that Frieza should be, by all means over half of Broly's power to fight him and phase him for so long (relative to other fights where having 2x the power results in blitzed curbstomps).

So, overall. My argument is that Frieza might be capable of outlasting MUI Goku (as it is only a minute) but it is hard to discern whether or not he can defeat UIO3 Goku due to there being no actual timer or limit for the form. As such I have to treat UIO3 Goku as having no actual weaknesses regarding stamina.

Logically speaking if Frieza did, indeed, sense LB Jiren and still ascertained that Broly was too powerful to defeat then he is essentially claiming that LB Jiren can not defeat SS Broly. If this is, indeed, true then it seems that Frieza handled and phased somebody who is stronger than LB Jiren for over an hour straight.

We can not calculate the difference in power between LB Jiren and Base Jiren (same for MUI Goku and UIO3 Goku) and as such we must consider them purely as different levels of power entirely (as depicted in the show).

So if Base Jiren == UIO3 Goku and Broly > LB Jiren then Frieza, by all means, should be considered as far stronger than UIO3 Goku. Combine this with telekinetic prowess and it is reasonable to believe that Frieza can defeat UIO3 Goku.

Of course, whether or not Frieza is comparing Broly to LB Jiren is questionable. Regardless of the case we know he has to at least be comparing Broly to a Jiren that could curbstomp Post-UIO2 Goku and we know he can sense Goku's Blue form (based on RoF) so we can derive the understanding that SS Broly is, in-fact, impossible for SSB Goku to defeat. SSB Goku who surpassed UIO1 Goku considerably and is likely far stronger due to breaking his limits multiple times after.

So, overall. It depends on your interpretation of the novel statements.

Mickey1940 said:

Goku also has all of the abilities that Frieza has (with the exception of self-sustenance), plus far more, giving Goku a vast versatility edge as well. Even if you assume Frieza was stronger, Goku could still keep up with him with his instinctive dodging and attacking, teleportation, superior martial arts, and eventually close the gap with his reactive evolution AND zenkais
Remember, 2 minutes in Dragon Ball standards is a VERY long time, especially considering how both are massively ftl+. I'm confident in saying that Goku could close whatever gap between them within his transformation limit

Click to expand...

Frieza has vastly superior telekinetic abilities and specialises in the use of accuracy-based ki lasers. They might have the same abilities but Goku's own specialities are extremely different to Frieza's. Frieza would never match Goku in a battle of energy waves or straight up martial arts but he is far more advanced with his own brand of techniques (Energy blasts, Energy lasers and telekinesis).

It's absolutely worth noting that Frieza was capable of fighting Goku (suppressed to a similar level of power) with zero training and no ki sensing. Whereas Goku could sense Frieza's presence and had decades of martial arts training and experience. It would be accurate to claim that Frieza is an incredible prodigy at fighting in-general based on this.

Frieza is never going to match MUI Goku in martial arts but UIO Goku has weak offensive abilities due to the nature of the incompelete UIO...as a result he can only really use his auto-dodging and aim for a singular chance to defeat Frieza. Otherwise Frieza's durability and endurance will tank Goku for an eternity.

Apologies for the triple-posting but I felt that each reply needed its own post due to length.

Frieza can just create a cage of light and then prevent UI Goku from escaping moving or dodging. Slowly making it smaller until it Cuts Goku to pieces.

@CryoTheMayo

Frieza can't sense God ki. If he could he would not have taken Toppo as lightly as he did, and he would not have decided to tank his Hakai ball like an idiot

This wiki doesn't accept any SSJ multipliers last I checked, so that's why I said it's not quantifiable without assumptions

If what Peter said is correct (referring to the whole Frieza is still < Beerus thing), then Goku would stomp effortlessley

Frieza's telekinetic abilities literally translate to him throwing rocks at someone. Which would be useless against pretty much everyone he fights. The only time where telekinesis was useful was when he killed Krillin with it on Namek, but it's unlikely that he can use it on beings near to above his own power

Both fighters's ki blast-based abilities don't have to be compared since both can mimic each other's abilities fairly easily. Goku, however, still hilds a massive intel and skill edge on Frieza with his martial arts and fighting expierience.

I don't really care about Goku's UIO forms, since I don't disagree that Frieza could win. However, MUI doesn't have the same offensive problem as his previous forms do.

@InfiniteBlack123

Frieza's cage of light lasts for an even shorter time than MUIS does. After using the move, he's probably gonna be almost completely wiped. Also what's stopping Goku from Instant Transmissioning out of it

Frieza CAN sense God Ki. He outright measures his energy in Golden relative to Goku's Blue form in the RoF arc. There is absolutely no denying this simple event. Other non-god ki users like Hit have measured Goku's Blue form before as well.

They do in-fact accept that Super Saiyan is at least a 40x multiplier. https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/2462932

The only source for UIO3 Goku > Beerus is a singular magazine scan which has no bearing on canon so that can't be used. You could argue that a suppressed Jiren was already considered stronger than a GoD but we have no actual confirmation of how strong Beerus actually is. Goku outright states that Broly is 'probably' stronger than Beerus and Beerus in the manga is shown to be capable of taking on several other GoDs with UIO.

You summarising Frieza's telekinesis as 'throwing rocks at someone' is laughable. Did you forget Frieza creating telekinetic spheres that trap his opponent? I also have to point to Chiaotzu who could completely freeze Krillin (despite being weaker) until his concentration was broken all the way into the middle of Pre-Z Dragon Ball.

Frieza has completely analyzed Goku's fighting style and has 100% awareness of how Instant Transmission works. He knows all of Goku's techniques, barring perhaps the Mafuba which Frost could easily deflect and requires equipment that Goku lacks. Ultra Instinct causes Goku's fighting style to change to be completely different according to Gohan but Frieza still understands every ability Goku has access to. And, again, Frieza's martial arts prowess was enough to handle Goku without Ki sensing abilities and without decades of martial arts experience.

So, overall the only two advantages Goku has here is the auto-dodging and his fighting style altering heavily from using UI. You could also argue his reactive evolution but I'm not convinced that isn't Goku just mastering the movements of UI. His offense is garbage in all forms but MUI which is a huge hindrance when Frieza is basically always going to be aiming to torture and kill Goku in any in-character match up.

So, again based on basic scaling presented in the show Frieza should be at least UIO2+ levels of power and could be argued to be UIO3 level in terms of his physicals. With UIO3 Goku having terrible offensive abilities (which basically means Frieza is going to tank Goku for hours on end).

I don't think Frieza can stand that much of a chance against Jiren, and with that being said, I vote Goku.

TheMasculineMineta said:

I don't think Frieza can stand that much of a chance against Jiren, and with that being said, I vote Goku.

Click to expand...

But this Frieza during the BRoly saga, where he was far stronger than in the TOP.

I know. But I still don't think he could defeat Jiren.

Are you people serious?

MUI Goku is far, far above Broly.

Broly was stated by Goku to be around as strong as Beerus, when in the ToP, the GoD tier was already broken by Toppo and both Jiren and Goku, achieving a level of power far superior to the Gods of destruction, which includes Beerus.

And MUI would just dodge anything Frieza throws at him and just one shot.

I'm not claiming Frieza can defeat MUI Goku. I am claiming Frieza might be capable of tanking Goku until the MUI drawback hits him.

MUI Goku just stomps Frieza way before that.

Jiren is just way above Broly.

You're going to have to supply a source or form of reasoning for that belief.

CryoTheMayo said:

Frieza CAN sense God Ki. He outright measures his energy in Golden relative to Goku's Blue form in the RoF arc. There is absolutely no denying this simple event. Other non-god ki users like Hit have measured Goku's Blue form before as well.
They do in-fact accept that Super Saiyan is at least a 40x multiplier. https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/2462932

The only source for UIO3 Goku > Beerus is a singular magazine scan which has no bearing on canon so that can't be used. You could argue that a suppressed Jiren was already considered stronger than a GoD but we have no actual confirmation of how strong Beerus actually is. Goku outright states that Broly is 'probably' stronger than Beerus and Beerus in the manga is shown to be capable of taking on several other GoDs with UIO.

You summarising Frieza's telekinesis as 'throwing rocks at someone' is laughable. Did you forget Frieza creating telekinetic spheres that trap his opponent? I also have to point to Chiaotzu who could completely freeze Krillin (despite being weaker) until his concentration was broken all the way into the middle of Pre-Z Dragon Ball.

Frieza has completely analyzed Goku's fighting style and has 100% awareness of how Instant Transmission works. He knows all of Goku's techniques, barring perhaps the Mafuba which Frost could easily deflect and requires equipment that Goku lacks. Ultra Instinct causes Goku's fighting style to change to be completely different according to Gohan but Frieza still understands every ability Goku has access to. And, again, Frieza's martial arts prowess was enough to handle Goku without Ki sensing abilities and without decades of martial arts experience.

So, overall the only two advantages Goku has here is the auto-dodging and his fighting style altering heavily from using UI. You could also argue his reactive evolution but I'm not convinced that isn't Goku just mastering the movements of UI. His offense is garbage in all forms but MUI which is a huge hindrance when Frieza is basically always going to be aiming to torture and kill Goku in any in-character match up.

So, again based on basic scaling presented in the show Frieza should be at least UIO2+ levels of power and could be argued to be UIO3 level in terms of his physicals. With UIO3 Goku having terrible offensive abilities (which basically means Frieza is going to tank Goku for hours on end).

Click to expand...

1. Still doesn't explain how Frieza f*cked up so badly against Toppo. If he could truly sense God ki, he would have known to dodge the ball.

2. oh

3. Whis confirmed that the mortal stronger than a GoD was in fact Jiren, and this was when he measured his suppressed strength. MUI Goku and Limit Breaker Jiren are both far beyond that, thus MUI goku has surpassed Beerus. Once again, I DONT CARE about UIO, I'm only arguing on behalf of MUI Goku

4. the "This Time You Might Die" move (Imprisonment Ball) is not part of his telekinesis, it's labeled as Paralysis Inducement on his page, which can be countered with Goku's own.

5. Chiaotsu wasn't that much weaker than Krillin, otherwise his kicks would have done almost nothing. Also, Chiaotzu vs Krillin was 8B vs 8B, while Frieza vs Krillin was Low 4C vs like 5B. That's a massive difference.

6. Still doesn't change the fact that Goku has far more experience, skill, and techniques than Frieza. Besides, Goku knows everything Frieza can do as well.

7. Still don't care about UIO. MUI doesn't have a garbage offense.

"Still doesn't explain how Frieza f*cked up so badly against Toppo. If he could truly sense God ki, he would have known to dodge the ball."

Frieza controlled Destruction energy prior to the ToP and has always had an issue with his arrogance. It's also plausible that Toppo was suppressing his energy due to him fighting two 3-A fighters. To add further we have no actual reason to think that people can sense Destruction energy...seeing as Frieza and Goku were both fooled by the hidden Hakai sphere when Frieza fought Sidra's Agent of Destruction.

"Whis confirmed that the mortal stronger than a GoD was in fact Jiren, and this was when he measured his suppressed strength. MUI Goku and Limit Breaker Jiren are both far beyond that, thus MUI goku has surpassed Beerus. Once again, I DONT CARE about UIO, I'm only arguing on behalf of MUI Goku"

Whis would have been well aware that Jiren was restraining his power and was only shown as suspicious at the time over whether or not Jiren was that mortal. I don't think anyone is going to deny that UIO3 Goku and 100% Jiren are above GoDs but we don't really have conclusive evidence of them outright surpassing Beerus. The only source for this is a singular magazine scan where it quotes Beerus as saying Goku 'might be' or 'is probably' stronger. I'll bare in mind that you are arguing over MUI in the future.

"the "This Time You Might Die" move (Imprisonment Ball) is not part of his telekinesis, it's labeled as Paralysis Inducement on his page, which can be countered with Goku's own."

It has always been categorised and referred to as telekinesis in extended material but I suppose if we go based purely on its usage within the story itself we have no conclusive evidence that it is telekinesis. Even so Frieza was capable of tagging GoD Toppo with his Imprisonment Ball and it could restrain him for a few seconds...even though we both know Toppo vastly surpassed Frieza at this time.

"Chiaotsu wasn't that much weaker than Krillin, otherwise his kicks would have done almost nothing. Also, Chiaotzu vs Krillin was 8B vs 8B, while Frieza vs Krillin was Low 4C vs like 5B. That's a massive difference."

I'm not arguing over Frieza's telekinesis killing Krillin. I am arguing that Chiaotzu, another master of telekinesis, could completely freeze a fighter that was stronger than him which is objective fact. Based on scaling Frieza should be UIO2+ level...and if Goku can't dodge telekinetic energy it brings into question if Frieza can just freeze Goku in-place and kill him.

I'm not arguing this for MUI...that would be utterly ridiculous. I am arguing that Frieza, based on feats, may be capable of freezing UIO3 Goku and killing him.

"Still doesn't change the fact that Goku has far more experience, skill, and techniques than Frieza. Besides, Goku knows everything Frieza can do as well."

Uh...I think you are mistaken here. Goku has far more experience yes but he doesn't have more skill or techniques than Frieza (again, Frieza can fight on an equal level to Goku in raw skill and Frieza has displayed far more technical prowess than Goku ever has in terms of raw ki technique arsenal and complexity). Goku doesn't have Frieza's grasp over telekinesis, his homing death beams, his death wave, etc. Claiming Goku can do 'everything' that Frieza can do is just plain dishonest and is only true on a very technical level.

Goku can TECHNICALLY use telekinesis, finger lasers, homing lasers, etc. But he has never shown a skill over it that even remotely approaches Frieza nor does he use such techniqus in-character. The most Goku has ever done approaching this is a single use of a finger laser in the ToP and a paralysis technique that he never showed prior to the Broly film.

Goku's fighting style DOESN'T incorporate Frieza's techniques and it is the same vice versa. Frieza knows everything Goku can do (barring the Mafuba) and Goku knows everything Frieza can do. The difference is that Frieza has literally spent an entire year performing battle simulations against Goku and has effectively completely memorised him. UI heavily alters Goku's fighting style but Frieza knows how his core style works with extreme understanding and knows his every technique.

Seeing as you stated you are only arguing for MUI...we should be on the same page then.

I am stating that Frieza COULD win against MUI Goku IF he can tank Goku for a full minute. If he CAN'T tank MUI Goku for a MINUTE then he isn't going to win. That's literally all I am suggesting.

ok then

I doubt that Frieza could tank Goku for a minute(ish), though, cause other than Beerus and Belmod, no other GoD was stated to be stronger/weaker than another, at least not in the anime (the manga is a completely different story). So, their power in comparison should be around the same level for all the GoDs.

Pre-Limit Break Jiren was clearly implied to have already surpassed GoD Toppo, who should be comparable if not equal to any other GoD (as stated on every GoD page on this wiki), so this means that Jiren should be at LEAST on the level of a GoD, with hs Limit Breaker form being far greater than that. Goku has surpassed Limit-Breaker Jiren.

Seeing hiw Goku's gonna go for the kill in-character, I don't see how Frieza, someone who is inferior to a GoD, is going to be able to tank him for a full minute. Within that minute possibly quadrillions of blows will be raining down on both opponents, and Frieza would likely not survive that

Honestly with the amount of hype around Broly these days I wouldn't mind if someone says Frieza can solo the TOP

JackJoyce said:

Honestly with the amount of hype around Broly these days I wouldn't mind if someone says Frieza can solo the TOP

Click to expand...

he can't.....?

Of course not. Jiren exists.

But.. But.. they will give you logic like Frieza withstood hits from Broly who's 100 times more powerful than Limit Breaker Jiren

JackJoyce said:

But.. But.. they will give you logic like Frieza withstood hits from Broly who's 100 times more powerful than Limit Breaker Jire

Click to expand...

100 times more powerful?

Evidence?

Mickey1940 said:

ok then
I doubt that Frieza could tank Goku for a minute(ish), though, cause other than Beerus and Belmod, no other GoD was stated to be stronger/weaker than another, at least not in the anime (the manga is a completely different story). So, their power in comparison should be around the same level for all the GoDs.

Pre-Limit Break Jiren was clearly implied to have already surpassed GoD Toppo, who should be comparable if not equal to any other GoD (as stated on every GoD page on this wiki), so this means that Jiren should be at LEAST on the level of a GoD, with hs Limit Breaker form being far greater than that. Goku has surpassed Limit-Breaker Jiren.

Seeing hiw Goku's gonna go for the kill in-character, I don't see how Frieza, someone who is inferior to a GoD, is going to be able to tank him for a full minute. Within that minute possibly quadrillions of blows will be raining down on both opponents, and Frieza would likely not survive that

Click to expand...

That's a very flawed way of thought but let's say I go along with it. If all GoDs are around the same level of power, regardless of training or competence, then Frieza went from being stomped by Toppo, a GoD, in under a minute to fighting Broly, somebody Frieza personally deemed as impossible for anyone in 'existence' to defeat, for over an hour and being capable of phasing Broly and forcing him to dodge after fighting him for over half an hour.

For Broly to be so powerful that no one in 'existence' can stop him. Frieza would have to have judged SS Broly as somewhere around 2x the power of Toppo if not more. So if we go along with this logic we can judge that Frieza can tank someone far stronger than a GoD for over an hour straight...which incidentally would be someone equivalent to Jiren's full base power if not greater.

Now, pray tell. Why would Goku go for the kill 'in-character'? This is ToP Goku who is allies with Frieza. Goku has never 'gone for the kill' against Frieza outside of him having to do so to save the Earth. To add further, you must remember, UIO Goku struggles to utilize his offensive abilities due to the limitations of a incomplete UI. Goku struggled to even defeat Kefla...someone who is objectively far weaker than UIO2 Goku was (considering she was only comparable to the Universe 7 Spirit Bomb which even UIO1 Goku had to match or surpass to survive).

1. I mnever said that i believe that they are all equal, I'm saying there is no proof other than physical appearance (for example, Champa) saying that they AREN'T equal to each other, at least not in the anime

2. Can't say much for Broly cause idk if Beerus > Frieza is tru at this point or not

3. Frieza is trying his best to kill goku in this fight, so why would he hold himself back? Also, once again, I DON'T CARE ABOUT UIO.


Just to make sure you don't mention UIO again, I will cast my vote that Goku would lose in Round 1 and probably Round 2. I'm only arguing the bonus Round