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7-A Brackets Finale

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Dargoo_Faust

Dargoo_Faust

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Pretty badass rendition of siegfried and fafnir from the new 348601861447613f0f2fc29b67182e31
It's time.
Current Standings (A "-1" indicates a fighter was disqualified for whatever reasons)

The combatants for this round are Archer (EMIYA Alter), submitted by Iapitus the Impaler, and Lucario, submitted by The real cal howard.

Base Lucario is used. Speed is equal. Battle takes place at Final Destinatio, assume there are plenty of identical platforms flying along it for EMIYA to use ranged attacks from.

This is playing in the background
Lucario scales well above 531 megatons, EMIYA scales well above 385 Megatons.

Lucario - 4 (Cal, Dragonpentling, Glacion, Bambu)

Archer (EMIYA Alter) - 12 (Iapitus, Zrk, Overlord, Paul, Stoned Orc, Tdtd, Fate, Schnee, Monarch, Pixel, Lorenzo, Ed)

Incon -

EMIYA vs. Lucario
 
Lucario's Danmaku matches Archers, his AP is also vastly above him as he fodderdizes 531 characters, and Archer can't copy any of his stuff as it's equipment.

Waiting for others
 
Emiya should win almost due to range alone. Lucario is fast so he can cross the distance, but EMIYA is gonna fire spam Durability bypassing spatial nukes from a distance as soon as the fight starts. It probably won't kill, but it will severely maim. At this point he can projectile spam even harder. Once he get severly spammed, he will open up with his NP at some point. However, this does give Lucario something useful. Justified and Endure will majorly amp him (I don't think anyone would disagree that his Noble Phantasm is a dark type move). Each sword will amp Lucario further. His best chance of winning is to use that to take EMIYA down in one hit with the enhancements. However, I think a few more Hrunting will suffice. Lucario can use his power copying to try and fire projectiles back, but EMIYA can deal with that shit like he did with Gil, but reversed. Power Copying would be the only way to match EMIYA's range, since his own projectiles lack it. Also, EMIYA has his conceptual shield against projectiles anyway, so in a bout of danmaku spam EMIYA takes it every time. Parry can only save Lucario from a few projectiles.

For these reasons, I vote for EMIYA
 
Lucario's danmaku gets bloked by EMIYAa's anti-prejctile skill

Meanwhile he has durability negation via space hax (Caladborg 2) and much higher skill.

also if EMIYA decides to use Gae Bolg it's an ista GG

and then there's ULW's body screw, which will also be a GG if it lands

so i vote for Enrico EMIYA
 
Reminder that this takes place on Final Destination, which is like 30 meters long. With Extremespeed, Lucario gets in h2h distance instantly.
 
The real cal howard said:
Reminder that this takes place on Final Destination, which is like 30 meters long. With Extremespeed, Lucario gets in h2h distance instantly.
Click to expand...
-With Gintoki voice- Disagree!! EMIYA Alter h2h is also great as his original counterpart!
 
@Dargoo

I'm pretty sure this stage overly favors Lucario. EMIYA is largely a range fighter, so confining them to low space is gonna be a problem. Also, Final Destination gonna get gone real fast lol. He probably still wins, but still

nvm I just read there are many other platforms around it as well, so it should be fine
 
Anyway, to address some of the points, bit by bit.

With the arena, Archer's in range of Lucario's projectiles, and even then, Lucario's got kilometer range anyway.

Lucario's going to duplicate himself with Double Team, making him incredibly hard to hit as Emiya's not going to know which one to aim for. Danmaku in general has to deal with Lucario's forcefields.

Lucario has Me First. Which would really screw over Emiya if he uses his GG moves. Gae Bolg and ULW become severe problems if Lucario uses them first.

Lucario's got 1000 years of honing its skills, so skill surprisingly doesn't go to Archer.

Heal Pulse heals Lucario back for half of its health, and with Lucario's notable stat advantage, Archer's gonna be hard-pressed to do notable damage to the jackal.

According to its Pokemon Ranger entry, Lucario can use its aura as a cloak. If that works like armor, it's gonna be another severe boon in Lucario's favor, as Archer has to break through that too.

Lucario resists swords and guns via its steel typing. Alongside that, Lucario's defensive buffs are insane. Iron Defense doubles it, and Lucario can spam it.

Lucario uses Laser Focus, its next attack is probably gonna kill, as Lucario's next attack will be a critical one. Mind Reader also allows Lucario to get a really strong hit in, like Close Combat or Blaze Kick.

Mind reading, instinctive reaction, and precog only add onto Lucario's hard to hit status.

Lucario has Blaze Kick and Force Palm. If Archer gets burned or paralyzed, or even both, it's game over. Constant damage + AP drop or the inability to move + speed drop.
 
Danmaku is useless dou to EMIYA projectile deflecting passive skill

Me First doesn't work on items, which all of EMIYA's abilities are based from, and no saying he can just copy ULW is a massive NLF

That is a specific Lucario who got 1000 years of skill, who is also high 6-A. The lucario used in this match is a regular one.

Spacial hax ignores durability and so does Gae Bolg

and EMIYA regularly deals with opponents with much better instinctive reaction and precog than Lucario
 
It does though, as it copies Gear Grind, which involves gears, an item. It can also copy Leaf Blade. Not to mention Lucario's shown to be able to make weapons.

That shows how old a Lucario can get. By SBA, Lucario'd be at its peak experience.

Cadabolg is a free hit due to spatial hax, but did it ignore durability? I wasn't sure. Even then, Lucario can recover from it. Gae Bolg, I already knew. Does it keep its auto-hit function though? And would it bypass forcefields? Lucario sees it coming, so Lucario can take countermeasures.

Such as whom? Even then, just because he's seen it before doesn't make it not effective. Lucario's beaten fire types before. Doesn't make fire any less dangerous to it.
 
The real cal howard said:
Anyway, to address some of the points, bit by bit.
With the arena, Archer's in range of Lucario's projectiles, and even then, Lucario's got kilometer range anyway.

Lucario's going to duplicate himself with Double Team, making him incredibly hard to hit as Emiya's not going to know which one to aim for. Danmaku in general has to deal with Lucario's forcefields.

Lucario has Me First. Which would really screw over Emiya if he uses his GG moves. Gae Bolg and ULW become severe problems if Lucario uses them first.

Lucario's got 1000 years of honing its skills, so skill surprisingly doesn't go to Archer.

Heal Pulse heals Lucario back for half of its health, and with Lucario's notable stat advantage, Archer's gonna be hard-pressed to do notable damage to the jackal.

According to its Pokemon Ranger entry, Lucario can use its aura as a cloak. If that works like armor, it's gonna be another severe boon in Lucario's favor, as Archer has to break through that too.

Lucario resists swords and guns via its steel typing. Alongside that, Lucario's defensive buffs are insane. Iron Defense doubles it, and Lucario can spam it.

Lucario uses Laser Focus, its next attack is probably gonna kill, as Lucario's next attack will be a critical one.

Mind reading, instinctive reaction, and precog only add onto Lucario's hard to hit status.
Click to expand...
The stages are lined to give EMIYA a chance to fire from a distance. He can fire from a city over, and it is completely in character to spirit form away to a distance

Giant AoE spatial manip that bypassed Godhand deals with both force fields and clones

EMIYA deals with that the way he deals with Gil. ULW is EMIYA's origin, so it won't effect him with origin bullets the same way Kiritsugu isn't effected by his own origin bullets. Gae Bolg gets countered by his own

Archer is a counter guardian with a literal eternity of fighting exerpiance of fighting the best fighters in history and countering threats to humanity. Skill definitely goes to him

Heal Pulse only works on others, not yourself. He has Harpe anyway. AoE durability bypassing spatial manip deals with the stat difference. Also black keys

His spatial manip bypasses armor and aura-like defenses like that.

Durability doesn't matter since he'll be spamming shit that bypasses it. Also, iirc spatial manip is dragon type anyway. Explosions like he uses from charged NP would be fire type as well, so that is actually gonna do more

For laser focus to work, he would have to be in melee range anyway. Any projectiles get negated several times over

All of these are pretty run of the mill for Servants, which EMIYA deals with every day and lands projectiles on. Hercules, Saber Alter, and Artoria are all examples
 
Gear Grind is via a body based skill, no items included.

Also EMYA has fought being with being much more skilled than any non-legendary pokemon.

Caladbolg rips apart space, it of course bypasses durabiliy, and Shirou was able to use Nine Life's by coping Berserker's weapon, Alter EMIYA >>> Shirou in everything, so he can of course use the ability of the spear.

Artoria thanks to her intincs and Berserker via his Eyes of the Mind (false) just to name a few
 
Emiya doesn't have teleportation and Lucario can both see and hit ghosts. Emiya spiriting away against an opponent who can easily catch up to him is detrimental at best.

Problem is, Emiya's in range to get hit by his own nuke. He doesn't start far enough and Lucario's not going to let him get too far, especially with Agility and Extremespeed.

Elaborate on the Counter Guardian stuff.

Heal Pulse has worked on oneself in the anime. Harpe doesn't ignore durability so it gets no-sold by Lucario's stats, defense buffs, and typing.

But...Lucario resists Dragon Type... Also, Explosions are Normal Type given that Self-Destruct and well...Explosion is Normal type.
 
Servants can also hit too intangible beings, but they can't hurt other servants in spirit mode
 
The real cal howard said:
It does though, as it copies Gear Grind, which involves gears, an item. It can also copy Leaf Blade. Not to mention Lucario's shown to be able to make weapons.
That shows how old a Lucario can get. By SBA, Lucario'd be at its peak experience.

Cadabolg is a free hit due to spatial hax, but did it ignore durability? I wasn't sure. Even then, Lucario can recover from it. Gae Bolg, I already knew. Does it keep its auto-hit function though? And would it bypass forcefields? Lucario sees it coming, so Lucario can take countermeasures.

Such as whom? Even then, just because he's seen it before doesn't make it not effective. Lucario's beaten fire types before. Doesn't make fire any less dangerous to it.
Click to expand...
EMIYA's projectiles get countered by his own stuff, and his origin attacks don't work on himself

EMIYA has eons more of experience against the best fighters in human history and threats to humanity

Yes, Spiral Sword bypasses dura. Gae Bolg does not keep its causality hax as far as i know. His spatial manip will bypass shields and armor

Hercules and Saber Alter. The point is that he can land these attacks on these people all the time.
 
Overlord775 said:
Gear Grind is via a body based skill, no items included.

Also EMYA has fought being with being much more skilled than any non-legendary pokemon.

Caladbolg rips apart space, it of course bypasses durabiliy, and Shirou was able to use Nine Life's by coping Berserker's weapon, Alter EMIYA >>> Shirou in everything, so he can of course use the ability of the spear.

Artoria thanks to her intincs and Berserker via his Eyes of the Mind (false) just to name a few
Click to expand...
Gear Grind: The user attacks by throwing two steel gears at its target.

I mean, Lucario's constantly fought beings that have mastered every martial art on the planet (Machamp).

I'm uncertain on how good Artoria's instincts are. How do they compare to actual animals?
 
Overlord775 said:
Servants can also hit too intangible beings, but they can't hurt other servants in spirit mode
Click to expand...
I don't see NPI or "Can hit ghosts" on any of their profiles...
 
"EMIYA's projectiles get countered by his own stuff, and his origin attacks don't work on himself"

Origin attacks, fair enough, but the other projectiles are boosted 1.5x their base, stacked onto Lucario's already superior stats. They can't be countered by EMIYA's own stuff because they lack the power to do so.
 
The real cal howard said:
Gear Grind: The user attacks by throwing two steel gears at its target.
Click to expand...
That being the signature move of the pokemon made of gears, who's literally just using his body to attack

and that is at best it's basic metal manipulation, so you can't just assume he's able to copy more complex weapons
 
The real cal howard said:
Emiya doesn't have teleportation and Lucario can both see and hit ghosts. Emiya spiriting away against an opponent who can easily catch up to him is detrimental at best.
Problem is, Emiya's in range to get hit by his own nuke. He doesn't start far enough and Lucario's not going to let him get too far, especially with Agility and Extremespeed.

Elaborate on the Counter Guardian stuff.

Heal Pulse has worked on oneself in the anime. Harpe doesn't ignore durability so it gets no-sold by Lucario's stats, defense buffs, and typing.

But...Lucario resists Dragon Type... Also, Explosions are Normal Type given that Self-Destruct and well...Explosion is Normal type.
Click to expand...
Servants can also see and hit ghost and spirits, but they cannot hit eachother in spirit form.

EMIYA is protected from his own projectile attacks and explosions. They start at max range which is allowed.

A counter guardian is someone who has sold their soul and become a heroic spirit. They are deployed by the world to counter act any threats to humanity. They are literally spawned over and over for eternity on various missions for all time. Grail Wars aside, they still end up fighting the best fighters in history

Being damaged by the sword negates healing. He just needs to blow it up in his face once and he is golden.

Cool, still bypasses durability. Some are normal type, some are fire type. Blast Burn and Flame Burst are 2 examples. Guess its a toss up
 
The real cal howard said:
I don't see NPI or "Can hit ghosts" on any of their profiles...
Click to expand...
Its implied. Ghost of various types are some of the most basic enemies in Grand Order, and Servants themselves are spirits even while not in spirit form
 
@Iap It's also because we don't tend to put NPI on spirit/ghost profiles despite them being able to interact with other spirits/ghosts by nature.
 
Dargoo Faust said:
@Iap It's also because we don't tend to put NPI on spirit/ghost profiles despite them being able to interact with other spirits/ghosts by nature.
Click to expand...
Yee. Same reason we don't put it on every stand users profile lol
 
The real cal howard said:
Elaborate on the Counter Guardian stuff.
Click to expand...
Counter guardians are heroic spirit that is sent from past, present and future to fight of calamities that would end mankind.
 
Alright, so how does that equal infinite experience? Sure they're doomed to combat this stuff for eternity, but unless there were infinite mankind ending threats, it shouldn't grant the experience being alluded to by a long shot.

Don't get me wrong, Emiya's got experience that eclipses the likes of even Goku, but still.
 
I started to write something for this before I realized I have no clue how the heck Archer works and fights.
 
"Being damaged by the sword negates healing. He just needs to blow it up in his face once and he is golden."

The profile and the imgur link in the profile states that wounds created by Herpe can't be healed. Nothing about it negating Regenerationn for everything else. And given that Lucario's not immortal, that other bit's not kicking in.
 
That being the signature move of the pokemon made of gears, who's literally just using his body to attack

and that is at best it's basic metal manipulation, so you can't just assume he's able to copy more complex weapons

For one, the fact that Emiya has copied these abilities shows that they're capable of being copied in the first place.

Furthermore, Me First and especially Copycat have copied such complex things. They're capable of copying mindhax, reality warping, probability manipulation, magic, dream manipulation, precog, death hax, etc.
 
I don't think being doomed to fight forever means you start your fight with an infinite amount of experience. Tuska the Daemon-Killa will be fighting until something happens to Khorne, but it wouldn't be assumed to have an infinite amount of combat experience in a thread.
 
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