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Our lightspeed standards......

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The beam refracts in a new material, such as a liquid or... The beam reflects off a material that it can be expected to, such as a non-magical mirror. The beam is called lightspeed by credible scientific sources. It is stated to be made of photons or light itself, again by a credible scientific source. It has its origin at a realistic source of light, such as a camera. Furthermore, there are a few criteria which show a beam is NOT real light: It is shown at different speeds in the same material. It is tangible and can be interacted with physically by normal humans. They do not travel in straight lines (unless you can prove refraction/reflection, see above)
These are our standards so far, and I've kinda begun to think they aren't really as good as they could be. I'll explain my problems with them.

The beam refracts.

Great. Makes sense. No issue here.

The beam reflects.

Completely reasonable and logical. It's fair game.

The beam is stated to be lightspeed by a scientific source.

And here it really begins to go downhill. If a beam is really light, why does it become so necessary to prove its lightspeed? Light goes at lightspeed regardless except at really extreme environments, where it would be very obvious those things are affecting it, like a black hole. Even if we're assuming that this is for light that hasn't proved to be actual light, being called lightspeed can theoretically apply to anything outside of light as well, so it's redundant to list.

It is stated to be called light or photons by a scientific source.

Okay. I'm going to assume this ISN'T just bad wording, and I apologize if it was. With that in mind, let me say this: having to be a scientific source is just plain BS. Having to be scientific source really seems to exclude many different works of fiction, and only really works if no one who isn't a scientist or at least not a part of science or realistic fiction is considered unreliable. For example, for this to work, we'd need to assume a OUTERVERSE level being isn't knowledgeable on light because it's metaphysical instead of scientific.

It has a realistic source of light.

Realism isn't exactly a main priority in fiction. That whole idea of things reacting to light? Surpassing it even? It doesn't work under basic science. And yet we're using a "realistic source of light" as our basic qualification? That seems to be extremely restrictive of anything outside of certain genres being considered light. That's pretty close to a Argument from Disbelief.

They have to travel in straight lines.

This is the thing that really baffles me the most. If being able to control light is a character's ability, why does using that ability to, say, bend or redirect light suddenly make it not light. That really can only be a thing if we assume that being able to bend light is a impossible power to have, which is really silly with all the very varied abilities you'll see looking at fiction in general, or that manipulating light in anyway fundamentally changes its existence, which seems odd when refraction is a thing, but I'll be the first to admit I'm no scientist. It also seems weird when we have lots of characters who follow supposedly scientific rules, like in the case of Cole MacGrath. Technically it's a different element but it's a good example. His lightning works the way it should, being able to heal, cause people to spasm, short out devices, etc, etc, but electricity can't actually really be aimed in any capacity without a plasma channel or something.

TL;DR, our standards are a bit wacky and need updates, better wording, and possibly some removals. Sorry if I touched a nerve.
 
You should contact calc members and admins about this, as for me, I'm staying out of it, this is a sensitive and controversial discussion
 
Uh

Those aren't all requirements

It being stated to be lightspeed is just one way it could be proven to be such

You're misunderstanding, it doesn't have to do ALL of these

The more the merrier but really proving refraction and coming from a valid light source is generally enough unless contradicted
 
I kind of mentioned that. They don't really work as evidence the way they're worded now.
 
I don't really get the problem here then. All of these are good starts for supporting evidence and I don't think anything here isn't contradictory.
 
If light refracts the beam will break into multiple beams scattered in different locations.

For example, if someone holds a Crystal to a light ray and it splits apart then you have refraction.
 
Assaltwaffle said:
I don't really get the problem here then. All of these are good starts for supporting evidence and I don't think anything here isn't contradictory.
Could you perhaps go more in depth.
 
I guess the "must come from a scientific source" could be changed to "must come from a reliable source".
 
Premise: As others said, you don't need to meet every requirement, only some of them.

>The beam is stated to be lightspeed by a scientific source.

Yes, this should be changed to "reliable source"

>It has a realistic source of light.

This means more "The flash of a camera is more likely to be light speed than a mage's spell" than "the mage is unrealistic so no light speed".

>They have to travel in straight lines.

This is because it's a notable property of light. Unless a light beam is near to a black hole or something, it wouldn't deviate notably from its path.

Basically the idea is that light needs properties of irl light to ensure that the speed is the same
 
It's fair if it was just bad wording. I mentioned that.

I don't know if bending light is impossible if someone manipulates it though.
 
Kaltias said:
>The beam is stated to be lightspeed by a scientific source.

Yes, this should be changed to "reliable source"
I think that you can change this if you wish.
 
@Ant

I'll do it later

@Exodus

The main point is that in 99% of the cases, you can't prove that an attack is light speed.

What you can do is find all the evidence pointing towards it.

So the beam moving in a straight line is evidence towards "this is natural light". If it starts having multiple unnatural properties, how can you be sure that the speed is the same as irl light?
 
I think the issue is that we're looking at it in a way that doesn't really work. If it were, say, a cannon firing beams that bent it wouldn't make sense, but a character with light manipulation could very easily bend light. Hence light manipulation
 
Yes, but what you are trying to prove is that the light is as realistic as it gets.

If a character can make it move in a unnatural way, how can you be sure that they can't alter the speed as well?
 
I'm sure there are a lot of examples where they bend it in one scene and not another. If that were the case it wouldn't matter.
 
@Andy

Thanks.
 
I agree with Kaltias.
 
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