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Gin Ichimaru's Bankai Ability - Buto Renjin.

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IMadeThisOn8-1-2017

IMadeThisOn8-1-2017

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Per this thread, apparently the effects of Buto Renjin are not added on Gin Ichimaru's profile. So I have to make a CRT for it... which is a pain since it's a very small text entry.

Image:

From Databook 3, UNMASKED. We're looking at the second main text.
Buto Renjin
Kanji:
ÞÂàÚ½ÿÚǃÒüºÒÇî þäíÞ©ÅÒÇì ÒéƵö¥ÒüñµèÇÒÇé ÒÇî þäíÞ©ÅÒÇì Òü«µö╗µÆâÕèøÒü¿ÚǃÒüòÒüîÕÇìÕîûÒüòÒéîÒéïÒüƒÒéüÒÇü µíüÚüòÒüäÒü«Õ¿üÕèøÒéƵîüÒüúÒüƒµö╗µÆâÒü¿Òü¬ÒéïÒÇé

My Translation:
"A technique to fire Buto at ultra high speeds. Buto's offensive ability that purposefully doubles it's speed, it's an order of magnitude higher in power and must be held in one's hand to accomplish."

Proposition:
An order of magnitude means a factor of 10. So it should be doubled speed for this attack and an increase in AP for this attack.

Reminder: It applies only to this ability of Gin's Bankai. None of his other abilities scale. Doesn't scale to durability since Ichigo doesn't overpower it and then hit Gin, Ichigo just dodges it.
 
If the translation is good then I agree with the upgrade.
 
To respond to both your comments at once: I know what the tiers are, but I don't know the numbers behind them. I generally just post scans and argue about interactions of abilities. If High 7-A is an order of magnitude above just 7-A then so it is. I just want to make things more accurate and consistent.
 
Well assuming the linked calc is to the correct scaling

HE = 2.75E18J

LE = 1.8E17J

Multiplying it by 10 it gets 1.8e18 for the low end which is 7-A and 2.75e19 for the high end which is High 7-A. Going by Callsign the implication is that the site uses the high end result of the calc.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
Multiplying it by 10 it gets 1.8e18 for the low end which is 7-A and 2.75e19 for the high end which is High 7-A. Going by Callsign the implication is that the site uses the high end result of the calc.
Click to expand...
" Mountain level+ with Bankai (Showcased such power with Tensō Jürin)"

I think the high-end was used.

" Never mind. High end should be fine since that one is explicitly stated radius of effect (twice stated). "
 
We have discussed using Bankai multipliers time and again. It was decided not to use them.
 
It isn't the bankai statement though, but the databook saying the move increases Gin's power by an order of magnitude.
 
Yeah this isn't a Shikai to Bankai multiplier as Qawsed has said. This is an explicit description of one of Gin's Bankai abilities.
 
Depends on whether or not it'd be considered "calc stacking". If Ichimaru had his own 7-A feat, we could safely multiply that result by 10 and be done with it. But he is scaling from another character's feat here. A calc group member would have to address this issue.
 
I thought calc-stacking was when you use two user calcs ontop of each other to reach a conclusion? Thus, this wouldn't be a calc as it's a canon number. It's like denying the usage of Kaioken multipliers from Dragon Ball which we do use.
 
Soldier Blue said:
Depends on whether or not it'd be considered "calc stacking". If Ichimaru had his own 7-A feat, we could safely multiply that result by 10 and be done with it. But he is scaling from another character's feat here. A calc group member would have to address this issue.
Click to expand...
I see where you are coming from but, multipliers are used for other verses, no? But you still have a good point.
 
Calc stacking is only aplicable to non-canonical math.

Say kurama, who's tier comes from being twice as strong as his half form.

Only calcs made by fan's is fallacious
 
I agree with this. And as others have said, this is not calc stacking as the 10x is not a fan calc, it's a canon increase in AP.
 
Soldier Blue said:
We have discussed using Bankai multipliers time and again. It was decided not to use them.
Click to expand...
Have we though? I mean I know you go back many years soldier, but for us "newer" members I can't remember ever discussing the bankai multipliers. The staff just shoot it down without consideration.
 
As for the OP, if we're not going to use in canon multipliers (and this site tends to ignore all of the Bleach ones) then we sure as hell should not use non-canon ones. The Manga/canon>Databook.
 
Can we just talk about the Databook and not the Bankai multipliers please? The purpose of my CRT is about the databook, not the Bankai multiplier, save that discussion for another CRT for now.

@Dr.Fix

Databook isn't non-canon. Don't know why you said that.
 
Proposition:

An order of magnitude means a factor of 10. So it should be doubled speed for this attack and an increase in AP for this attack.
 
@Imade: the databooks are not canon.

Everyone else: The point is if we don't even take canon multipliers seriously there is no justification for using the databook's multiplier.
 
Callsign Castle said:
What canon multipliers don't we use, and why aren't they canon?
Click to expand...
Bankai: Specifically cited by yoruichi to be an increase 5-10 times depending on experience

Ressurection: cited by endorad to multiply an arrancars power 3 times over

Mask's Sajin punch: Specifically said to be 10x his previous AP

2xCaptain class reiatsu being a big deal (Aizen and Ichigo) . . . .

As for the databooks they're just something produced by shoenen jump to appease fans and get more revenue. They have more in them wrong than right:

According to the databook Shunsui and Jushiro have reiatsu exceeding "all that came before and after them." that would include the likes of Sosuke, Kisuke, Isshin, Unohana, Genryusai, & Ichibei

Acording to the databook Yamamoto is smarter than Aizen and Soifon is stronger than either of them . .

According to the databook Gin's blade is 13 Km and Mach 500 . . . Gin states in the manga itself that this is a lie and there's even a rulel about it on here preventing me from discusing it further.
 
>Bankai: Specifically cited by yoruichi to be an increase 5-10 times depending on experience

You could save that for another CRT.

>Ressurection: cited by endorad to multiply an arrancars power 3 times over

There isn't a character named Endorad. But there is a character named Edrad and he never says such a thing.

>Mask's Sajin punch: Specifically said to be 10x his previous AP

Mask Komamura? What does this even mean?

>2xCaptain class reiatsu being a big deal (Aizen and Ichigo) . . . .

It doesn't really mean much cause we are told "at least". Ichigo with less than half his Shihakusho was comparable in Reiatsu to a Captain by Unohana. Aizen stated you need at least twice the Reiryoku of a Captain to force the Hogyoku awake while he casually does it without any sign of strain.

>According to the databook Shunsui and Jushiro have reiatsu exceeding "all that came before and after them." that would include the likes of Sosuke, Kisuke, Isshin, Unohana, Genryusai, & Ichibei

Ichibei was never a Captain. Ichibei was part of the Royal Guard before the Gotei 13 was made. Having more than Kisuke, Isshin and Unohana is not that far off with the statements regarding how great Shunsui and Ukitake were. Also, according to Color Bleach+, Shunsui and Ukitake don't have more than Yama, Aizen nor Unohana. Where'd you get this?

>Acording to the databook Yamamoto is smarter than Aizen and Soifon is stronger than either of them . .

Color Bleach+ has Yama and Aizen both stronger than Sui-Feng and Yama isn't listed smarter than Aizen.

>According to the databook Gin's blade is 13 Km and Mach 500 . . . Gin states in the manga itself that this is a lie

That's for another CRT.

==
Where'd you get all that? But can we please get back to the matter at hand. We already accept Databook entries on VS Wiki except when it's clearly contradicted and incorrect like Naruto's Light Speed Light Fang.
 
Anyway, @Callsign, you asked a question and I answered. Don't accuse me of derailing when I'm just giving you what you asked for.
 
I agree with Imade's proposition.

I don't see why we can't use multiplier from databook, and it's not like it'll scale to other characters as Imade said in the OP, it only scale to Buto Renjin, so It won't messed the current scaling.
 
I don't see why we can't use databook info when it presents hard numbers instead of mere hyperbole.

Also...

If Gin's Bankai really is Mach 1000 and Ichigo dodged that shit from just several metres away, could we perhaps use that to get a proper speed rating for pre time skip characters?
 
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