Zeus is up against another Godslayer... | Hearts (SDBH) Vs. Zeus (GOW) | (5-1-6)

[Spicy78]

Spoiler: BATTLE CONTEXT YAPPING

As Hearts was watching from the battle taking place in Universe 6 from the shadows between Oran and Kamin and Vegeta, Hit, Kale and Caulifla; he noticed what was happening in another universe.

In it, the gods of the so-called "Olympus" ruled supreme over mortals. These gods were mean-spirited by nature, being a bunch of power-hungry fools and warmongers who demanded tribute from mortals and treated them with disdain, as if they were nothing more than cattle.

Therefore, Hearts considered freeing this realm from divine oppresion as a priority before finishing off the Zenos. Hearts appeared in Zeus' Throne Room announcing himself as the mortal who would put an end to the tyranny of the gods. Zeus, already expecting him and prepared to fight, stands up from his throne; and so, the battle that will decide the fate of the Greek world will begin!

• Hearts is in his Ultimate Godslayer form.
• Zeus is in his base form and has prior knowledge.
• Battle takes place at Zeus' Throne Room.
• SBA for the rest.
• Speed is equalized.

Olympus will NOT prevail: @Killerdrone123, @CryoTheMayo, @AwkguyDB, @TiltedFN, @ReaperAndBlues




Bro thinks he's Kratos : @BrackishBrineBroth




Doomguy shows up but returns to his verse as he realizes there are no demons in there: @Quantu, @Planck69, @Spicy78, @omegabronic, @Pepsimanslover_69, @Lloydblitzed

 

[Planck69]

Can Hearts even interact with Zeus? He's a Type 1 concept in this form.

 

[Spicy78]

• Non-Physical Interaction (Ghost, Spirit, Soul - Illusion - Energy - Invisibility, Intangibility - Incorporeality - Space-Time - Abstract Wills, Thoughts, Emotions, Void, Nonexistent [Nature Type 1]): In Heroes multiverse, Ki can interact with ghosts, spirits, souls, illusions, pure energy beings, invisible & intangible ki blasts, abstract wills, thoughts, emotions,the fabric of space-time, and even void itself

this is in ki manipulation, so i think that is the case

 

[Planck69]

Something just being an abstraction doesn't make it a Type 1 concept though.

 

[Robo432343]

Can Hearts even interact with Zeus?

(no)

 

[Spicy78]

Something just being an abstraction doesn't make it a Type 1 concept though.

oh. then he can't interact with zeus. i'll switch him to base

also, care to explain the difference between an abstraction and a concept?

 

[Planck69]

oh. then he can't interact with zeus. i'll switch him to base

also, care to explain the difference between an abstraction and a concept?

Not all abstractions are concepts (in a wiki tierable/indexable way). Concepts are abstractions. Beyond that, a Type 1 concept isn't the same as any mundane abstraction like willpower.

Base Zeus oneshots with any attack and if he dies, just becomes Fear Zeus anyways.

 

[Spicy78]

Base Zeus oneshots with any attack and if he dies, just becomes Fear Zeus anyways.

does he tho? afaik, hearts seems the one to have the upper hand in terms of ap. a huge upper hand at that. low 1-c SDBH characters are infinitely into low 1-c as they're able to effect the entire cosmology, which is composed of an infinite amount of 5d timelines

also, hearts' gravity manip is passive and he can just erase him from history, so there's that

 

[Planck69]

does he tho? afaik, hearts seems the one to have the upper hand in terms of ap. a huge upper hand at that. low 1-c SDBH characters are infinitely into low 1-c as they're able to effect the entire cosmology, which is composed of an infinite amount of 5d timelines

also, hearts' gravity manip is passive and he can just erase him from history, so there's that

All of Zeus' attacks are innately CM Type 1, to clarify, hence the oneshot. I wasn't referring to AP.

Hearts can't erase Type 1 concepts to my knowledge so if the gravity does somehow crush him, we're back at square 1.

Edit: Actually wait, lemme check how history EE works with concepts.

 

[Spicy78]

All of Zeus' attacks are innately CM Type 1, to clarify, hence the oneshot. I wasn't referring to AP.

WHAT??? EVEN SOME BARE PUNCHES??? damn, GOW is cracked even after all these downgrades...

Hearts can't erase Type 1 concepts to my knowledge so if the gravity does somehow crush him, we're back at square 1.

tbf his gravity doesn't work like passively applying LS so an opponent so that they die crushed like an ant, it's more like a gravity-based paralysis inducement. hearts already has telekinesis for that matter

 

[Spicy78]

WHAT??? EVEN SOME BARE PUNCHES??? damn, GOW is cracked even after all these downgrades...

nvm, this got accepted recently. now not every attack inherently effects the soul directly

 

[Planck69]

nvm, this got accepted recently. now not every attack inherently effects the soul directly

Not even sure what that really changed. Mortal characters (all 2 of them) no longer have that but Zeus can destroy souls with his lightning anyways so it doesn't change much.

Edit: And Divine Magic still has mind/soul/concept manipulation lol.

 

[Planck69]

WHAT??? EVEN SOME BARE PUNCHES??? damn, GOW is cracked even after all these downgrades...


tbf his gravity doesn't work like passively applying LS so an opponent so that they die crushed like an ant, it's more like a gravity-based paralysis inducement. hearts already has telekinesis for that matter

So it's just paralysis Inducement? Can't Zeus just teleport away from its range with a thought?

 

[Spicy78]

So it's just paralysis Inducement? Can't Zeus just teleport away from its range with a thought?

while he can, hearts has bfr and teleportation of his own, so he can just follow zeus wherever he goes.

he can also passively decrease zeus' stats, crush zeus via gravity cages or TK, EE him from history and one shot him via sheer ap (using either melee combat, standard ki blasts, danmaku, using his green orbs or summoning a huge meteor that is bigger than earth).

furthermore, he can know what zeus will do/is planning to do via mind reading and analytical prediction

Not even sure what that really changed. Mortal characters (all 2 of them) no longer have that but Zeus can destroy souls with his lightning anyways so it doesn't change much.

what changed is that now all magic attacks don't inherently attack the soul anymore, only the attacks that are stated and/or shown to directly attack the soul (like hades', who can literally tear apart souls and absorb them). so now zeus' lightning or any other magic-based attack, unless stated/shown to do so, doesn't destroy souls

it's not like it matters though, as he also has death manipulation, deconstruction, can transmutate hearts into an animal, and can interact with souls on his own

both can oneshot each other and know what the opponent will do next (hearts via mind reading/analytical prediction and zeus via precog) so this comes down to who attacks first, but zeus is an at disadvantage as he's paralyzed by gravity

 

[ShionAH]

Not even sure what that really changed

It made it so the characters in GoW have to activate/use special abilities to affect soul stuff, so they can no longer just kick and do that.

 

[Planck69]

It made it so the characters in GoW have to activate/use special abilities to affect soul stuff, so they can no longer just kick and do that.

Yeah but Zeus can interact with souls anyways.

 

[ShionAH]

Yeah but Zeus can interact with souls anyways.

Okay but unless another CRT is made to revert that, you should stop with the "everything nukes cm 1" since thats wrong now

 

[Planck69]

Okay but unless another CRT is made to revert that, you should stop with the "everything nukes cm 1" since thats wrong now

I mean, aite. Zeus is one of the few that has Type 1 feats of his own anyways, independently of magic.

God I have a lot to fix for this verse.

 

[Spicy78]

Yeah but Zeus can interact with souls anyways.

i know lol, i literally listed it as one of his wincons

 

[Spicy78]

anyways, i'll make the starting distance 40 meters so that zeus doesn't get instantly paralyzed by hearts' passive gravity paralysis, as it seems like hearts' passive gravity exertion only has standard melee range. if it is unfair, i can switch up back to standard melee range

 

[Planck69]

anyways, i'll make the starting distance 40 meters so that zeus doesn't get instantly paralyzed by hearts' passive gravity paralysis, as it seems like hearts' passive gravity exertion only has standard melee range. if it is unfair, i can switch up back to standard melee range

SBA would put them at 4 kilometers away anyways though?

Though, regardless, Zeus strips people of their powers with his lightning bolts so this would be a big issue if any landed on Hearts, on top of his whole concept manipulation.

 

[Quantu]

Hearts in this form starts off with Paralysis/Telekinesis into Matter/History EE iirc

 

[Spicy78]

SBA would put them at 4 kilometers away anyways though?

oh shit you're right LOL, switching it up to SBA

Though, regardless, Zeus strips people of their powers with his lightning bolts so this would be a big issue if any landed on Hearts, on top of his whole concept manipulation.

hearts could just mind read and avoid the lightning bolts

 

[Planck69]

Hearts in this form starts off with Paralysis/Telekinesis into Matter/History EE iirc

Would that work on Fear Zeus, what with him being a Type 1 Abstract of a Type 1 concept?

oh shit you're right LOL, switching it up to SBA

hearts could just mind read and avoid the lightning bolts

Would he immediately? That and Zeus has area-of-effect lightning blasts as well.

 

[Spicy78]

Would that work on Fear Zeus, what with him being a Type 1 Abstract of a Type 1 concept?

is he a type 1 concept even in base? if not, ki can interact with AE1 beings; it scales from goku and vegeta being able to interact with infinite zamasu with ki blasts

Would he immediately? That and Zeus has area-of-effect lightning blasts as well.

i mean, he dodged hit's time-skips on his first attempt, so dodging a lightning is no issue for him

 

[Planck69]

is he a type 1 concept even in base? if not, ki can interact with AE1 beings; it scales from goku and vegeta being able to interact with infinite zamasu with ki blasts


i mean, he dodged hit's time-skips on his first attempt, so dodging a lightning is no issue for him

His soul is a Type 1 concept and he becomes completely abstract upon death.

 

[Spicy78]

His soul is a Type 1 concept and he becomes completely abstract upon death.

afaik, no GOW character has shown any feat of regenerating their body after they were completely vanished from existence, so even if hearts couldn't erase zeus' soul, he'd still be gone forever

 

[Planck69]

afaik, no GOW character has shown any feat of regenerating their bodies after they were completely vanished from existence, so even if hearts couldn't erase zeus' soul, he'd still be gone forever

You misunderstand. Upon death, he just becomes Fear, a full Type 1 Abstract of a Type 1 concept. Same as what happened when Kratos killed him initially. He doesn't have to regenerate there.

It's kind of like an Infinite Zamasu situation, only as a full on Type 1 concept.

 

[Spicy78]

You misunderstand. Upon death, he just becomes Fear, a full Type 1 Abstract of a Type 1 concept. Same as what happened when Kratos killed him initially. He doesn't have to regenerate there.

i didn't misunderstood. if hearts erases zeus from history, he doesn't die, he completely disappears from existence, as if he was never born in the first place. zeus only showed to turn into a AE1 of a type 1 concept after he dies. he's not dying here, he's being erased from existence

 

[Quantu]

You misunderstand. Upon death, he just becomes Fear, a full Type 1 Abstract of a Type 1 concept. Same as what happened when Kratos killed him initially. He doesn't have to regenerate there.

It's kind of like an Infinite Zamasu situation, only as a full on Type 1 concept.

He needs feats of doing that upon having his body, mind and soul being erased from past, present and future.

Pretty sure that's how it works.

 

[Planck69]

i didn't misunderstood. if hearts erases zeus from history, he doesn't die, he completely disappears from existence, as if he was never born in the first place. zeus only showed to turn into a AE1 of a type 1 concept after he dies, he'd not dying here, he's being erased from existence

Which is why I asked if history EE would work on a Type 1 concept. Fear itself is still present, imbued in Zeus's soul, which is already Type 1, at all times.

If it works then this is a stomp for Hearts. If not then Zeus stomps.

 

[Spicy78]

Which is why I asked if history EE would work on a Type 1 concept. Fear itself is still present, imbued in Zeus's soul, which is already Type 1, at all times.

zeus didn't show to regenerate from body, sould and mine erasure, and he would be gone before he turns into fear itself, so yes, EE would work

If it works then this is a stomp for Hearts. If not then Zeus stomps.

how is this a stomp though? history EE works but it isn't a stomp for hearts. as i said, zeus can has multiple wincons himself (some of them require a single gesture such as soul manip or even none, like summoning death and madness manip via summoning sirens), has precog and the starting range is 4 kms

 

[Planck69]

zeus didn't show to regenerate from body, sould and mine erasure, and he would be gone before he turns into fear itself, so yes, EE would work

how is this a stomp though? history EE works but it isn't a stomp for hearts. as i said, zeus can has multiple wincons himself (some of them require a single gesture such as soul manip or even none, like summoning death and madness manip via summoning sirens), has precog and the starting range is 4 kms

Doesn't Hearts open with that? From what I've heard at least.

 

[Spicy78]

Doesn't Hearts open with that? From what I've heard at least.

he starts with gravity-based paralysis/telekinesis. what does zeus start with?

 

[Spicy78]

funnily enough, zeus can shrug off the effects of gravity-based paralysis and TK by turning into lightning. afaik, DB characters don't have elemental NPI, and the effects of gravity are barely negligible to electrons, so there's that

 

[Planck69]

funnily enough, zeus can shrug off the effects of gravity-based paralysis and TK by turning into lightning. afaik, DB characters don't have elemental NPI, and the effects of gravity are barely negligible to electrons, so there's that

Hmmm. Ig it comes down to how likely he is to use it in a fight. If he tries close quarters, it'd suck for him cause Zeus can cloak himself in his lightning as a forcefield and that would null his powers.

Zeus can also do physical damage to Hearts via psychic attacks.

 

[Vietthai96]

funnily enough, zeus can shrug off the effects of gravity-based paralysis and TK by turning into lightning. afaik, DB characters don't have elemental NPI, and the effects of gravity are barely negligible to electrons, so there's that

DB interract with lighting, electricity, fire, poison, and energy, ligh(Super Sheron can turn into light). Hearts gravity can also interact with these thing,

Also, isn't Zeus lighting is magical lighting?, is there any proofs that it is actual real scientific lighting??

Hmm, anyway hearts start with gravity-based TK which restrain peoples like how he did with Fusion Zamasu and erase him, around him has a passive gravity field

Hmm, anyway i will argue this way: Hearts can History EE Zeus

Scenario 1 is like what Quantu said, he need feat of becoming Fear Zeus after his body, soul, mind get erased historically (actually Hearts erased Zamasu so hard that he can't turn into IZ, made him a complete gonner)

Scenario 2 is, in case we ignore Quantu, Zeus can potentially become Fear Zeus upon getting erased, but since Hearts EE is History, he erases Zeus across all points in time, there is a period of Zeus became infected with Evil thus created Fear Zeus, so by erased him causally, he also erased the flow of events leading to the creation of Fear Zeus, thus completely neg Zeus and Fear Zeus at the same time, his EE can neg people with Aca 1 like Zamasu

 

[Killerdrone123]

Iirc Ultimate god slayer hearts will start with tk and ee since Zeus is a god not to mention he literally did the first thing to zamasu when he achieved that form

 

[Spicy78]

DB interract with lighting, electricity, fire, poison, and energy, ligh(Super Sheron can turn into light). Hearts gravity can also interact with these thing,

DB characters can't interact with elements on their own, ki does, its not the same. the only way that hearts could interact with electricity is if he just throws a ki blast at him. that out of the way, his supergravity isn't a ki attack, hearts just increases earth's gravity several times fold

Also, isn't Zeus lighting is magical lighting?, is there any proofs that it is actual real scientific lighting??

zeus' lightning is magical in the sense that he transforms/summons it using magic. it's not made out of magical particles nor things like that, it's made out of electrons and protons like any other lightning does. the magic page says that elemental magic enables the manipulation of elements, not that the elements themselves are made from magic

 

[Vietthai96]

DB characters can't interact with elements on their own, ki does, its not the same. the only way that hearts could interact with electricity is if he just throws a ki blast at him. that out of the way,

His gravity can literally did this

hearts just increases earth's gravity several times fold

Idk where you get this informations, but literally his gravity isn't just increases gravity cause this:

zeus' lightning is magical in the sense that he transforms/summons it using magic. it's not made out of magical particles nor things like that, it's made out of electrons and protons like any other lightning does. the magic page says that elemental magic enables the manipulation of elements, not that the elements themselves are made from magic

So it is just assumption, no proofs, because you know what, natural lighting can't blast people soul, mind and concept out of existence, so if it is natural lighting then Zeus isn't one shot, if it is lighting that can blast these metaphysical things out of existence then it isn't natural lighting

Edit:

DB characters can't interact with elements on their own, ki does, its not the same

This is misconception, they can use Ki to enhance their body, so allow the them to interact with these things barehand