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Zeref Time Manipulation Resistance

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Zeref: Soul Absorption Resistance (because of Franmalth ), Pleasure and Soul Manipulation Resistance (because of Larcade's magic ),Telepathy (was able to communicate with larcade via telepathy, Water Manipulation and Limited Poison Manipulation Resistance (because of Torafuzar), Wind Resistance , Fire Resistance , Air Resistance and Lightning Resistance (because of Tempester's Weather Manipulation ), Magic Absorption (because he absorbed all of fairy heart away from mavis), Time Manipulation Resistance, Magic Nullification Resistance, Death Manipulation Resistance, Spatial Manipulation and it's Resistances.

Gray Fullbuster/Silver Fullbuster: Limited Existence Erasure Resistance (They're able to resist demonic Existence Erasure because of their devil slayer magic, but a normal Existence Erasure should be able to kill them)

I will post this one last time, so it doesn't get lost in the comments. I also add telepathy, because of when he was telling larcade to stop in which larcade replied.
 
Spatial, Time for Acnologia for a resisting a Time

https://www.**********.com/fairy-tail/530/11

https://www.**********.com/fairy-tail/530/12

https://www.**********.com/fairy-tail/530/13


Neo Eclipse is a Magic in which one can turn back time to re-live life again. According to Mavis Vermilio, the current world that the spell is cast in is simply erased, becoming obsolete as the new world takes its place. In order to conduct, the user must have both Fairy Heart and the Space Between Time in their possession to combine them to activate the spell.[1] ------> Would be Time Travel and Erasure Existence of the Previous World https://www.**********.com/fairy-tail/534/10
 
Again, Existance Erasure for Zeref points against it were refuted so it addition be would be accepted.

Disagrement is not enough in this case for removal.
 
It's not a void, we already talked about this. The ravines of time is filled with time magic, and people could exist there like acnologia,anna,ichiya,natsu and the other dragon slayers.

So no, acnologia won't get EE resistance. That's just too ridiclous.

Here is the thread where it was discussed. 1
 
I agree it not a void

Also, these guys escaped it

https://www.**********.com/fairy-tail/540/9

https://www.**********.com/fairy-tail/540/8
 
They didn't escape, acnologia threw them out since he only needs dragon slayers. They were useless to him, so he threw them back to the human world.

Edit: Anna herself says it here. 1
 
Alright, though. Acnolgia should still get his resistance to space and time. Zeref might scale from that too since he had the power of ravine of time
 
@Kaiser

>Him resisting via immortality is out of the picture, none of them were able to kill him. So him dying and coming back isn't the case here, and zeref already stated that they couldn't kill him.

They couldn't kill him because he is immortal. There is no evidence of resistance to those abilities. It means their abilities can't bypass immortality which makes sense.

@Nedge

Zeref doesn't have EE resistance, it hasn't be refuted. I don't know why you keep repeating this when everyone has gone against it and provided reasonings.
 
@iMadeThisOn

They didn't kill him, and zeref himself stated this. For him to resist via immortality he would need to die from the attack and come back because of his curse of immortality. But none of this happen as we can see from zeref statement, none of them were able to kill him.

Unless you have a proof that their abilities were able to kill him and he came back because of his curse of immortality, then i have no reason to assume it can. We have zeref's own statement > your assumption.
 
IMadeThisOne8-1-2017, I had argument debunking opposition to EE no completely debunked my point. So, by debating standard of CRT, it would be accepted.
 
@Anon

The way zeref and mavis died is different from normal way of dying, you can't compare it to a normal way of dying like getting your head cut or burned to death.

Zeref and mavis died dua to each of their curses, it has nothing to do with normal way of dying and it can't be compared with one.

Edit: When i say dying, i'm talking about the action done to him. If a normal person lost his head, that would be the death of that person, but zeref can come back from that because of his curse of immortality. It would still be considered a death, but zeref can come back from it because he was cursed with immortality.
 
Anyway, let's just finish the thread, guys.

Zeref: Soul Absorption Resistance (because of Franmalth ), Pleasure and Soul Manipulation Resistance (because of Larcade's magic ),Telepathy (was able to communicate with larcade via telepathy, Water Manipulation and Limited Poison Manipulation Resistance (because of Torafuzar), Wind Resistance , Fire Resistance , Air Resistance and Lightning Resistance (because of Tempester's Weather Manipulation ), Magic Absorption (because he absorbed all of fairy heart away from mavis), Time Manipulation Resistance, Magic Nullification Resistance, Death Manipulation Resistance, Spatial Manipulation and it's Resistances

Gray Fullbuster/Silver Fullbuster: Limited or just Existence Erasure Resistance (They're able to resist demonic Existence Erasure because of their devil slayer magic)

Spatial, Time resistance for Acnologia for a resisting a Time. This resistance should scaled to Zeref since had the same of the ravine of time via Fairy Heart -> see Neo Eclipse

https://www.mangapan -da.com/fairy-tail/530/11

https://www.**********.com/fairy-tail/530/12

https://www.**********.com/fairy-tail/530/13

Also, for zeref's

Neo Eclipse is a Magic in which one can turn back time to re-live life again. According to Mavis Vermilio, the current world that the spell is cast in is simply erased, becoming obsolete as the new world takes its place. In order to conduct, the user must have both Fairy Heart and the Space Between Time-[ravine of time] in their possession to combine them to activate the spell.[1] ------>[ Would be Time Travel and Erasure Existence of the Previous World]

https://www.**********.com/fairy-tail/534/10
 
I'm sure no one is agreeing with EE resistance for zeref, there no proof for it. If you think you have proof for it, then please create a another CRT for it.

Lets focus on abilities zeref showed and abilities he should get resistance from based on the nine demon gates and larcade.

There is also abilities he should get in his fairy heart mode, like spatial manipulation and time stop resistance. I'm not sure about spatial manipulation resistance, but i think he is getting it because of the same reason as his time-stop resistance.
 
If Acnologia get spacial resistance so would Zeref since they both the ravine of time power's
 
@Nedge

I don't agree with it, iMadeThisOn doesn't agree with it either, AnonymousBlank doesn't agree with it and DragonEmperor23 at first didn't agree with it, but i don't remember him saying anything that would agree with it.

The other guys haven't talked about, so to say that they're neutral about it is wrong.

So it's only You, DemonGodMitchAubin and 9TailAcno that seem to agree with this. But you guys don't have any real good evidence for it, and if you think that you indeed do have a good proof for then why not make a new CRT for it.

If we keep talk about EE back and forth, there will never be a conclusion for this thread. So lets talk about what we have for now, and talk about EE for a another time.
 
AnonymousBlank said:
@Kaiser
His curse doesn't let him die, period. It doesn't rez him or else he and Mavis would have come back after they double suicided.

His whole spree of ways to kill himself was to bypass his undying state.
Click to expand...
This is why he doesn't have resistance. Those abilities don't instill instant death nor bypass his cursed immortality. It's not a resistance, it's a fact of his immortality denying him to die by such abilities.

Zeref even said that cutting off their heads won't kill them, so why would a wind, fire or water attack do anything when it can't bypass the immortality? There's no reason for resistance that has a solid foundation.
 
@Demon didn't actually agree to EE. What he agreed to was a list of Resistances while EE was still up for debate. He may agree or he may not but as of right now he hasn't.

@9Tail's (and your) reasoning for EE is based on faulty information/reasoning that Zero used Black Arts (he doesn't), Zeref invented Genesis Zero (he didn't), Zeref was the creator of all the Black Magics (he isn't but that is irrelevant to the debate) and that somehow all three of these separate kinds of Magic are the same (they aren't).

@Dragon did switch to pro EE but it was also based on the faulty knowledge/reasoning mentioned above.
 
@iMadeThisOn

Zeref already stated that they can't kill him, for him to resist based on his immortality, the attacks need to put him in a dead state and because he is immortal he will come back from that. But this is contradicted by zeref's own statement.

If you cut someones head, that is considered dead. But zeref can come back from this, thanks to his curse of immortality.

fire can kill a person, so can wind attack, water attack and even air attacks. Just like a blade, all these attacks can physically kill someone. But none of these abilities were able to kill him, so he must have resisted them.

Edit: "When i say dying, i'm talking about the action done to him. If a normal person lost his head, that would be the death of that person, but zeref can come back from that because of his curse of immortality. It would still be considered a death, but zeref can come back from it because he was cursed with immortality."
 
@Kaiser

>Zeref already stated that they can't kill him, for him to resist based on his immortality, the attacks need to put him in a dead state and because he is immortal he will come back from that.

This is incorrect. Zeref's immortality wouldn't let him die to attacks, they have to bypass the immortality to kill him.

>If you cut someones head, that is considered dead. But zeref can come back from this, thanks to his curse of immortality.

Not to Zeref. Cutting his head off doesn't mean he is dead. I think this is where you are confused.

>fire can kill a person, so can wind attack, water attack and even air attacks. Just like a blade, all these attacks can physically kill someone. But none of these abilities were able to kill him, so he must have resisted them.

None of these kill him because of his cursed immortality. It doesn't mean he resisted them, it solely means that the attacks couldn't kill him because he is immortal.

That is not resistance, that is immortality.
 
IMadeThisOn8-1-2017 said:
AnonymousBlank said:
@Kaiser
His curse doesn't let him die, period. It doesn't rez him or else he and Mavis would have come back after they double suicided.

His whole spree of ways to kill himself was to bypass his undying state.
Click to expand...
This is why he doesn't have resistance. Those abilities don't instill instant death nor bypass his cursed immortality. It's not a resistance, it's a fact of his immortality denying him to die by such abilities.
Zeref even said that cutting off their heads won't kill them, so why would a wind, fire or water attack do anything when it can't bypass the immortality? There's no reason for resistance that has a solid foundation.
Click to expand...
Based your point your argument soud like your for Zeref also having Type 5 Immortality but no resistance. Note that it is supported by Mard Guer statement about Memento Mori is true as he belive that EE was the only way to defeat Zeref.

https://www.**********.com/fairy-tail/410/17

https://www.**********.com/fairy-tail/410/18

https://www.**********.com/fairy-tail/410/19

https://www.**********.com/fairy-tail/410/20

5: Deathless Immortality: Characters who exist unbound by conventional life or death, or do not exist at all, and thus cannot be traditionally killed. Typically, abilities such as Existence Erasure are needed to destroy them.
 
@iMadeThisOn

"This is incorrect. Zeref's immortality wouldn't let him die to attacks, they have to bypass the immortality to kill him."

If we're following your way of think, for him to resist these attacks with his immortality, these attacks need to leave him in a "dead state" and after come back from it with his immortality.

"Not to Zeref. Cutting his head off doesn't mean he is dead. I think this is where you are confused."

I think you misread what i'm actually talking about here. What i'm saying is that when someone's head is cut, that person would be considered dead. Same goes with zeref, when his head is cut, he will be in a "dead state" and few seconds later he will come back dua to his immortality. I'm not saying he will die forever, what i'm saying is that he will be in a state of death for few seconds until his immortality kicks in. Also you clearly missed this part "But zeref can come back from this, thanks to his curse of immortality.".

"None of these kill him because of his cursed immortality. It doesn't mean he resisted them, it solely means that the attacks couldn't kill him because he is immortal."

None of these can actually kill him, but they can leave him in a state of dead before his immortality kicks in and he comes back. If we're follow your way of thinking and saying that his immortality will resist these attack, for that to happen these abilities needs work on him and leave him a state of dead so that he can come back to life.

I think you're confusing 2 things, resistance via Regenerationn and resistance via immortality. The attack hits him and he regenerates, then that is resistance via Regenerationn. But if you say that the attack hits him and he is left in a state of dead, and he comes back because of his immortality then that would be resistance via immortality.

Zeref gets hit and he either resist the attack via Regenerationn or he resist the attack simply using his body and it won't have great effect on him. But the idea that he resist the attack via immortality, is simply contradicted by zeref own statement.
 
@Kaiser

>If we're following your way of think, for him to resist these attacks with his immortality, these attacks need to leave him in a "dead state" and after come back from it with his immortality.

No, they'd simply not kill him because he is immortal, why do you keep referencing a dead state and coming back from it? Immortality is not resurrection.

>I think you misread what i'm actually talking about here. What i'm saying is that when someone's head is cut, that person would be considered dead. Same goes with zeref, when his head is cut, he will be in a "dead state" and few seconds later he will come back dua to his immortality. I'm not saying he will die forever, what i'm saying is that he will be in a state of death for few seconds until his immortality kicks in.

Zeref does not have resurrection. He only has immortality. Why do you keep thinking he enters a dead state? This is fallacious.

Seriously, you need to drop this dead state argument, Zeref does not have resurrection. He only has immortality.

Due to his immortality, he can not die by conventional means. These attacks could not kill him either. He doesn't have resistance, he solely has immortality that make these attacks worthless since they can't bypass immortality.
 
IMadeThisOn8-1-2017, incidentally, Zeref should still some of the resistance to mind and pleasure hax since he is shown unaffected after facing them. Other durability ignoring abilities would be resistance too in this case.

(they can't kill him).

Don't forget that he was not fighting but try to die at that point, so he likely didn't resist.
 
IMadeThisOn8-1-2017, beside you, I think all of us, not counting the staffs weren't there long,. in agreements about the resistances

So, it is better to finish the thread right now.
 
@iMadeThisOn

"No, they'd simply not kill him because he is immortal, why do you keep referencing a dead state and coming back from it? Immortality is not resurrection."

A dead state is the state where a normal person would be considered dead, but because zeref is immortal he will come back from that state. Some immortal characters when they reach this state, they will lose consciousness and few seconds later wake up and say that they can't die because they're immortal.

"Zeref does not have resurrection. He only has immortality. Why do you keep thinking he enters a dead state? This is fallacious.'"

Where did i say that zeref has resurrection, i have been saying he has immortality none stop all this time so where are you getting this resurrection from. He enters a dead state because it's the state where a normal person would be considered dead, even immortals can enter this is state but because they're immortal they can come back.

"Seriously, you need to drop this dead state argument, Zeref does not have resurrection. He only has immortality."

Never said he has resurrection, i have no idea where you're getting this resurrection from. I'm not saying he doesn't have immortality, seriously are you even reading what i'm saying.

"Due to his immortality, he can not die by conventional means. These attacks could not kill him either. He doesn't have resistance, he solely has immortality that make these attacks worthless since they can't bypass immortality."

For him to resist via immortality, the attack needs to leave him in a state where one would be considered dead and after come back because of his immortality. This is resistance via immortality, i have no idea how you can't understand something this simple.

Edit: Your way of resistance via immortality sound a lot like durability resistance then a actually resistance via immortality, all your saying is that because his immortal he will resist it rather then explaining how.
 
He shouldn't have resistances to abilities that could be countered by immortality. I am inclined that agree but not is enough to change the accepted agreement. IMadeThisOn8-1-2017, it seems like in this case, you have to live with this conclusion for now.
 
KaiserReinhardt and IMadeThisOn8-1-2017, since you, guys, seem to argue over immortality resistance. in that case, It seems that in your case it best to add type 5 immortality to the list since it seems like the main point of your arguments. It is of the easier way to come to an agreement.

Zeref's does qualify for it, at least based on Mard Gueer's statement about MM. The only reason why I didn't argue initially argue for it that I believed that he could resist EE.
 
@Kaiser

By death like state, are you referring to what would typically be a fatal wound for a normal person bbut the immortal would be able to heal from? Example, do you believe that if Hidan (Naruto) got his head cut off but he is still able to keep talking (somehow), he is dead/in a death like state but is still able to have his head stitched on by Kakuzu (therefore heal come back)? Would that be an accurate example of a death like state?
 
No one is arguing for type 5 immortality or even for immortality resistance. iMadeThisOn over here is saying that zeref resisted Tempester's Weather Manipulation via his immortality and that he did not physically resist the attack.

But what i'm saying is that for that to happen, Tempester need to leave zeref in a state where one would be considered dead and zeref needs to come back using his immortality. This is what it means when zeref resist those attack using his immortality, but this is condradicted by zeref own statement.

He simply resisted those attacks using his body, and they were not able to do any great damage to him. This is the reason he is getting resistance for those attacks, and a lot of people already seem to agree with this.
 
@Anon

Yes, in a state like that were a immortal being loses his consciousness and everyone thinks they're dead but then sudenly they open their eyes and start talking from their severed head or starts regenerating.
 
So, anyway, is an agreement reach since we already have the agreement necessary to get this CRT accepted?
 
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