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Zen'ō VS Shadow

Robo432343

Robo432343

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Zen'ō

Zen'ō (全ぜん王おう?, lit. "Omni-King") is the king of all of the twelve universes in the Dragon Ball multiverse. Although child-like in appearance and personality, his power is feared by even the Angels and the Gods of Destruction, having destroyed six of the original eighteen universes in a fit of...
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VS

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Shadow (Shadow Fight)

Shadow is the eponymous protagonist of Shadow Fight 2 and a major character of Shadow Fight 3. He was a powerful and arrogant warrior who foolishly opened the Gates of Shadows in his pursuit of a worthy battle, thus unleashing the Shadow Energy into the world, its emission being so great that it...
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SBA
Speed =

Shadow:
Zeno:
Incon: 3
 
Last edited:
It's as if Zeno apparently has no way to dissuade Shadow from wanting to defeat him, so it would be an incon fight... again.
 
ShionAH said:
Question would immortality stop the fate hax?
Click to expand...
Hmmmm this is a tricky one since you could interpret it in multiple ways:

1. Shadow wants to defeat his opponent who lets say has Type 4 Immortality, so they can ressurect after death. That character dies by fate, but you can interpret Shadow is certain that killing his opponent once, well, kills them for good (as anyone would normally expect that to happen). So fate bends to what Shadow thinks / expects is going to happen. If he kills the oppoent, they are dead and shouldn't come back, since fate is bent on Shadow thinking the opponent shouldn't come back to life once they are killed. If the opponent resurects after death by their own accord then the fate hax will make them not want to resurrect anymore (since fate hax has been shown to change how people think in the game). If the opponent is resurrected by some other being, like for example Bloodborne's Hunter being brought back to life by Moon Presence, then the fate hax will cause Moon Presence to stop wanting to resurrect the Hunter after they are killed. And if the opponent is ressurected by some (mindless) concept they embody, then I guess fate just predetermines the fact that the opponent will not come back to life.

2. Shadow wants to defeat an opponent with Type 4 Immortality, but because he wants to just do that - defeat them - then fate will cause them to be defeated / killed, but they will still come back since Shadow "didn't specify" that they have to stay dead. Although if Shadow has prior knowledge that the enemy can come back to life after being killed, he would most likely wish for them to stay dead after he kills them, so fate should keep them from coming back.
 
Dashio_Tessai said:
Hmmmm this is a tricky one since you could interpret it in multiple ways:

1. Shadow wants to defeat his opponent who lets say has Type 4 Immortality, so they can ressurect after death. That character dies by fate, but you can interpret Shadow is certain that killing his opponent once, well, kills them for good (as anyone would normally expect that to happen). So fate bends to what Shadow thinks / expects is going to happen. If he kills the oppoent, they are dead and shouldn't come back, since fate is bent on Shadow thinking the opponent shouldn't come back to life once they are killed. If the opponent resurects after death by their own accord then the fate hax will make them not want to resurrect anymore (since fate hax has been shown to change how people think in the game). If the opponent is resurrected by some other being, like for example Bloodborne's Hunter being brought back to life by Moon Presence, then the fate hax will cause Moon Presence to stop wanting to resurrect the Hunter after they are killed. And if the opponent is ressurected by some (mindless) concept they embody, then I guess fate just predetermines the fact that the opponent will not come back to life.

2. Shadow wants to defeat an opponent with Type 4 Immortality, but because he wants to just do that - defeat them - then fate will cause them to be defeated / killed, but they will still come back since Shadow "didn't specify" that they have to stay dead. Although if Shadow has prior knowledge that the enemy can come back to life after being killed, he would most likely wish for them to stay dead after he kills them, so fate should keep them from coming back.
Click to expand...
Maxwell has type 5 hmm he would probably still incon since maxwell doesnt have knowledge but I wanted to know would it work?
 
ShionAH said:
Maxwell has type 5 hmm he would probably still incon since maxwell doesnt have knowledge but I wanted to know would it work?
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His profile claims that he can become immortal if he wants to be immortal. Does that mean he doesn't have such immortalities by default and first has to give them to himself? And him becoming drepressed after killing Shadow should make him not want to be immortal anymore, before doing away with himself.
 
Dashio_Tessai said:
His profile claims that he can become immortal if he wants to be immortal. Does that mean he doesn't have such immortalities by default and first has to give them to himself?
Click to expand...
He can do it by giving HIMSELF the adjectives if that makes sense
Dashio_Tessai said:
And him becoming drepressed after killing Shadow should make him not want to be immortal anymore, before doing away with himself.
Click to expand...
Probably its best to stay as incon but hey first match of shadow!
 
ShionAH said:
Probably its best to stay as incon but hey first match of shadow!
Click to expand...
It was an interesting fight for sure. And the first time in a long while I participated at a match, since I'm more of a character indexing / profile-maker type of supporter.
ShionAH said:
He can do it by giving HIMSELF the adjectives if that makes sense
Click to expand...
Yep it's like I expected. The immortalities in question are self-inflicted adjectives.
 
The fight is 4km away
is shadow just gonna use hand to hand combat?? i thought surely he would use some magic ability
 
Robo said:
The fight is 4km away
is shadow just gonna use hand to hand combat?? i thought surely he would use some magic ability
Click to expand...
Not that it would matter since the EE is immediately casted by Zeno. But just for the sake of the argument in SF2 Shadow never starts with his Magic fully charged, and so he first has to land some attacks and/or be hit by the opponent to charge it in order to cast the Magic in question. Although SF2 Shadow still has the Plasma Rifle which arguably has an even better range than 99% of his Magics, and it lacks any visible ammo system (so he can spam it) and can apply Enchantments just like his Magic can. SF3 Main Plane Shadow has "infinite" Shadow Energy so he can start with Shadow Abilities too. Itu's Plane Shadow in his final moments in the story also has "infinite" Shadow Energy, so it is the same case as his Main Plane self.
 
Dashio_Tessai said:
Not that it would matter since the EE is immediately casted by Zeno. But just for the sake of the argument in SF2 Shadow never starts with his Magic fully charged, and so he first has to land some attacks and/or be hit by the opponent to charge it in order to cast the Magic in question. Although SF2 Shadow still has the Plasma Rifle which arguably has an even better range than 99% of his Magics, and it lacks any visible ammo system (so he can spam it) and can apply Enchantments just like his Magic can. SF3 Main Plane Shadow has "infinite" Shadow Energy so he can start with Shadow Abilities too. Itu's Plane Shadow in his final moments in the story also has "infinite" Shadow Energy, so it is the same case as his Main Plane self.
Click to expand...
Oh and unironically even with a 8-C vs 2-C ap gap if Zeno were to stay still and let Shadow just hit him, then Shadow could kill Zeno with around 3-4 Time Bombs and Bleeding with Poisoning Enchantments, since they deal fixed % damage and Shadow can defeat enemies in the game with incredily strong Armors and Helms with a few lucky procs of the mentioned Enchantments, even though his own weapon attacks don't move their health bar even one pixel.

Oh course, Zeno would never want to let Shadow touch him, but the 8-C can still harm and potentially kill the 2-A with lucky Dura Neg procs.
 
Dashio_Tessai said:
Oh and unironically even with a 8-C vs 2-C ap gap if Zeno were to stay still and let Shadow just hit him, then Shadow could kill Zeno with around 3-4 Time Bombs and Bleeding with Poisoning Enchantments, since they deal fixed % damage and Shadow can defeat enemies in the game with incredily strong Armors and Helms with a few lucky procs of the mentioned Enchantments, even though his own weapon attacks don't move their health bar even one pixel.

Oh course, Zeno would never want to let Shadow touch him, but the 8-C can still harm and potentially kill the 2-A with lucky Dura Neg procs.
Click to expand...
Hmm ok
what would a bloodlusted shadow do if both were 10m apart?
 
Robo said:
Hmm ok
what would a bloodlusted shadow do if both were 10m apart?
Click to expand...
SF2 would still hack at Zeno with whatever equipment he has, just in a more ruthless way. Outside of his equipment, Echantments and Perks he doesn't have a standalone power that he uses outside of gameplay outside of his Eclipse, which forces him to fight an even more ferocious Zeno and can send him back in time. Shadow defeats characters with haxes in his verse because he simply resists their haxes. And then he proceeds to beat them in hand-to-hand combat. I should also note that 98% of characters in Shadow Fight are proficient in hand-to-hand combat and do not back down from a melee fight. So Shadow very rarely faces the Gandalf type of characters in the game, who prefer to stay at a distance and cast spells instead of pulling off stunts and breakdancing on the floor while fighting. The only time he supposedly fought such character was probably against Shadow Mind, and that fight is never once visualised in the game or given great detail on.

If we are talking Main Plane Shadow with Shadow Mind fusion these two should be affected by SBA and so they are no longer in an inner conflict with each other and are willing to work together (or not) to stop their opposition. And so bloodlusted Shadow Mind / Shadow should stop clowning around with Weapon Creations and Energy Projections and actually BFR, turn Zen'o into a Shadow Beast, Time Stop, Mind Control or rip his soul out of him, along with some other stuff.
 
Dashio_Tessai said:
If we are talking Main Plane Shadow with Shadow Mind fusion these two should be affected by SBA and so they are no longer in an inner conflict with each other and are willing to work together (or not) to stop their opposition. And so bloodlusted Shadow Mind / Shadow should stop clowning around with Weapon Creations and Energy Projections and actually BFR, turn Zen'o into a Shadow Beast, Time Stop, Mind Control or rip his soul out of him, along with some other stuff.
Click to expand...
So if i use main plane shadow, he can actually win??
 
Robo said:
So if i use main plane shadow, he can actually win??
Click to expand...
Only if like, he's heavily bloodlusted. Time Stop is thought-based, BFR in the story is implied to happen so fast the characters do not have time to react to it, Mind Control is based on Shadow Mind spawning Shadow Energy in Zeno's head / mind, which is also thought-based. The Shadow Beast technique in the story works in a similar way to how Mind Control does (spawn a Shadow Beast inside Zeno's body and mind), only that now Zeno would be turned into an animalistic beast instead of keeping his appearances and intelligence like in Mind Control's case. Soul rip in the gameplay works by throwing a ball of Shadow Energy at the enemy, and if it hits them Shadow Mind can use that SE to "grip" and rip the soul out of Zeno's body. It is a bit slower than Zeni's EE, but with Time Stop it should give SM plenty of time to land that ability.

But again, this would happen from the beginning of a fight only if they are bloodlusted. Otherwise it would likely take some time before they would decide to use the mentioned hax. Instant fate hax still stands in both scenarios, though.
 
ok i thought we were assuming shadows fate hax takes time to activate
just like that shadow vs maxwell thread
 
Robo said:
ok i thought we were assuming shadows fate hax takes time to activate
just like that shadow vs maxwell thread
Click to expand...
It is thought-based. Shadow wants to do something, and the fate hax activates. By SBA the moment the fight starts Shadow's first thought is to want to defeat Zeno.
 
Dashio_Tessai said:
It is thought-based. Shadow wants to do something, and the fate hax activates. By SBA the moment the fight starts Shadow's first thought is to want to defeat Zeno.
Click to expand...
then why did we think that shadows fate hax takes time to active in the last match
 
ShionAH said:
we didn't thats the reason it was not a stomp.
Click to expand...
remember. there was 2 options. option 1 was that shadows fate hax is instant and 2 was that the hax would take time to activate while hes alive and be instant when hes abt to die
 
ShionAH said:
its instant so its not a stomp. It doesnt insta kill though
Click to expand...
nah look. shadow wants character x to die/be defeated right? his wish would be granted. that means character x can die by literally any outcome possible even its in the beginning of the match. whether it be choking himself in the beginning of the fight, stabbing himself, or just run away.
any outcome possible
 
Robo said:
nah look. shadow wants character x to die/be defeated right? his wish would be granted. that means character x can die by literally any outcome possible even its in the beginning of the match. whether it be choking himself in the beginning of the fight, stabbing himself, or just run away.
any outcome possible
Click to expand...
that is true but theres also large variety chance of it NOT working like that. Its unknown so its a incon
 
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