Zeno Resistances

[Antvasima]

I am fine with if you revert the edits.

 

[Yellowpig10]

More people seem to agree with it right now

 

[Antvasima]

Yes.

 

[Eficiente]

I disagree with this as well, and am very much disappointed that it got through.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, it is easily undone.

 

[Dragomer]

Meh, more people agreed that it should be added than there has been a sudden influx of people against it, i don't see why it should suddenly be rejected just because a few people who disagree appeared in a row, especialy since most people in favor of the upgrade won't participate anymore because as far they knew, the thread was closed, it would be pretty unfair.

If the anti (or against ? don't know which work better) side really, really want to relaunch the discussion, it should be done in a new thread and this one should stay closed, because once again, most people who participated in the discussion previously think it's over, hell i almost missed it myself and just saw it by chance when i checked for new matches.

Also the thread existed since October, the discussion lasted more than 'a day'.

 

[Inverted_Tempest]

Unless they unfollowed, they would still get the notifs from the thread. I doubt people were that quick to unfollow, but someone could ask them all to come back to thread if that's a concern.

 

[Yellowpig10]

the thread was actually closed until cal reopened it

 

[Antvasima]

@Cal

Why do you think that these edits should be reverted?

 

[Damage3245]

Giving Zeno resistances to all different kinds of hax just based on a handful of statements feels like edging towards NLF territory.

I'd definitely be in favour of undoing it.

 

[Udlmaster]

Giving Zeno resistances to all different kinds of hax just based on a handful of statements feels like edging towards NLF territory.
I'd definitely be in favour of undoing it.

You mean Hasty Generalisation, not NLF.

 

[Damage3245]

You mean Hasty Generalisation, not NLF.

It can be both.

 

[GojiBoyForever]

How the heck is it a NLF? The premiere authority on the Universe says nothing can harm or otherwise kill Zeno and Whis repeatedly reinforces how undefeatable Zeno is. If something as readily available as Mafuuba (Which Goku, Vegeta, and Trunks knows) or Whis/Beerus' Sealing (Which is even better than Mafuuba) is able to seal Zeno, why would he be a threat?

Also Stone Spit falls under Transmutation (Petrification is a sub-power of it) and that's resisted via Buu. Again if something as readily available as Buu's Transmutation is able to defeat Zeno, there's absolutely 0 reason why Whis wouldn't bring that up.

Magic Touch has shown to be resisted so no.

Super Shenron is literally the only being in the verse even POSSIBLY able to be near Zeno in terms of power, which means absolutely nothing since all that means is Super Shenron would overpower Zeno's resistance. It will still not change the fact that Zeno resists literally every other Eternal Dragon's best powers.

Does this make sense?

 

[Yobo_Blue]

It can be both.

Not to be rude, but it really isn't. NLF would imply that it's being used to say that Zeno can resist anything in fiction for example. This is not that, as there's a clearly defined limit, namely "powers in DB that are used as instant kill or instant win buttons". Whether or not that is a hasty generalization is something else.

 

[Udlmaster]

Yeah, I cannot see it being a NLF, only a Hasty generalisation but even then, it's not like there is little evidence to support it.

Though do not mistake me saying this for support on either side.

 

[Yellowpig10]

i say we keep it

 

[Yobo_Blue]

i say we keep it

at least give a reaso

 

[Yellowpig10]

for reasons above

 

[Yobo_Blue]

for reasons above

you do realize CRTs rarely let FRAs count right

 

[Yellowpig10]

well what am i meant to say? just copy and paste the other people's replies?

 

[Yobo_Blue]

ƒñÀƒÅ¢ÔÇìÔÖé´©Å

Just restate what you agree with or give another reason, or explain why you think the reasons above are reasonable I guess

 

[Damage3245]

Not to be rude, but it really isn't. NLF would imply that it's being used to say that Zeno can resist anything in fiction for example. This is not that, as there's a clearly defined limit, namely "powers in DB that are used as instant kill or instant win buttons". Whether or not that is a hasty generalization is something else.

The NLF comes from assuming the statement applies to all powers in DB that are used as instant kill / instant win, even though the statement doesn't actually specify those abilities.

To give an example, it would be like someone saying the Hulk is indestructible, so we give the Hulk resistance to every power in the Marvel Universe. That's an NLF even if we just focus on Marvel for it.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

That's kind of stretching the idea of NLF, because it's a limit. It doesn't mean it isn't unreasonable, but that's by definition not a NLF, because there is a defined limit.

 

[Udlmaster]

That's a false comparison.

Because, for example, Whis stated Zeno was immune to all abilities/nothing would work on him.

This only applies to DBZ abilities, we know this because Whis monitors the Universe as well and knows about the abilities that others beings in the Universe.

We have the limitation, that it only applies to the abilities shown in Dragon Ball.

Your comparison doesn't work because you didn't give a limitation, which would mean that's it's not a NLF example anymore.

 

[Damage3245]

That's kind of stretching the idea of NLF, because it's a limit. It doesn't mean it isn't unreasonable, but that's by definition not a NLF, because there is a defined limit.

That's why I said it was edging towards being an NLF, instead of outright calling it one.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

That's why I said it was edging towards being an NLF, instead of outright calling it one.

It can't really edge towards it if it conflicts with the definition either, but ƒñÀƒÅ¢ÔÇìÔÖé´©Å

 

[DontTalkDT]

I disagree with this as well. It's pretty extreme extrapolation.

Nothing working on someone in practice and in theory are also two very different things.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

for the record I put this in Fun and Games originally

 

[Ionliosite]

I'm honestly seriously concerned regarding our staff if this CRT that lasted for months based on Dragon Ball, one of the most important series on the wiki, only came to being rejected AFTER the changes were already applied.

 

[Antvasima]

I will undo the changes. Sorry about messing up. I have to juggle a lot of simultaneous tasks.

 

[Antvasima]

I have done so.

 

[Yellowpig10]

This has got to be one of the strangest CRTs ever. Added right away and removed right away

 

[Damage3245]

To be honest the reason I didn't originally comment on it is because I never would have thought it would pass.

 

[Antvasima]

So should we close this thread?

 

[Udlmaster]

To be honest the reason I didn't originally comment on it is because I never would have thought it would pass.

"First they ignore, then they mock you, Then they fight you. Then you win."

 

[Antvasima]

I will close this then.