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Everything in U7 IIRC. Zen'o isn't part of U7 by itself.
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Zeno Resistances
- Thread starter Yobo_Blue
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- dragon ball zen'ō
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are you guys sure zeno erased time? goku and trunks were moving, and the time machine was working, so time and oxygen were still there. only the physycal matter got erased.
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We've had many, many, many debates about this and no, it's the Timeline. We have a literal rule on how you're not allowed to discuss this without further evidence.Bonus Person said:
Also just because Goku and Trunks were moving doesn't mean that the feat is any less valid. Trunks also said "This was the last coordinates in the Time Machine", meaning that the Time Machine was using coordinates that would work regardless if there was actually a timeline there or not.
Dragon Ball Characters being able to breathe and such are inconsistent as all hell already, you want to discuss this again?
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We've had many, many, many debates about this and no, it's the Timeline. We have a literal rule on how you're not allowed to discuss this without further evidence.
Also just because Goku and Trunks were moving doesn't mean that the feat is any less valid. Trunks also said "This was the last coordinates in the Time Machine", meaning that the Time Machine was using coordinates that would work regardless if there was actually a timeline there or not.
Dragon Ball Characters being able to breathe and such are inconsistent as all hell already, you want to discuss this again?
@akreious
Check your message wall
Also just because Goku and Trunks were moving doesn't mean that the feat is any less valid. Trunks also said "This was the last coordinates in the Time Machine", meaning that the Time Machine was using coordinates that would work regardless if there was actually a timeline there or not.
Dragon Ball Characters being able to breathe and such are inconsistent as all hell already, you want to discuss this again?
@akreious
Check your message wall
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when i mentioned the oxygen, i was refering to the time machine, not the characters, the machine was using fire, fire needs oxygen. and you didn't really answer my question, you just debunked some things i said.Akreious said:
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I think it's at best only reasonable to grant him resistances to abilities that harm in nature. Time stop in itself doesn't really harm anyone; you don't need to resist time stop to be immune to a time stopper's attacks. And it's debatable that Super Shenron could cause the death of Zeno.
Also, while I could see him resisting some abilities, I don't get to see them demonstrated on Zeno. And yes, hax in Dragon Ball has always been something inconsistent on whether it wants to reverse the power-scaling or become basic hax that only works on characters weaker than them. There's a debate in which we either treat all hax as something that only works on characters weaker than you (Which would be downplaying and there have been times were a weaker character's hax worked on a stronger character) or assume stronger characters resist all hax shown in Dragon Ball done by weaker characters. Neither of which options sound good, so we generally treat it like other verses and only grant resistances to those who demonstrate resisting certain haxes.
Also, while I could see him resisting some abilities, I don't get to see them demonstrated on Zeno. And yes, hax in Dragon Ball has always been something inconsistent on whether it wants to reverse the power-scaling or become basic hax that only works on characters weaker than them. There's a debate in which we either treat all hax as something that only works on characters weaker than you (Which would be downplaying and there have been times were a weaker character's hax worked on a stronger character) or assume stronger characters resist all hax shown in Dragon Ball done by weaker characters. Neither of which options sound good, so we generally treat it like other verses and only grant resistances to those who demonstrate resisting certain haxes.
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I mean, Vegito still got transmuted, it's just he didn't become inanimate or have durability lowered to 10-C. It's not technically full on transmutation resistance, but for some weird reason it didn't weaken him. And yeah, Candy Beam can be deflected with strong Ki blowing it back by stronger characters, but said character does need to be active.
And yeah, General Blue and Chiaotzu's paralysis have worked on Goku despite him being much stronger than both of them, but Tao resisted Blue's paralysis. And Devil Mite Beam is definitely durability negation, but it only works on characters who don't have pure hearts.
And yeah, General Blue and Chiaotzu's paralysis have worked on Goku despite him being much stronger than both of them, but Tao resisted Blue's paralysis. And Devil Mite Beam is definitely durability negation, but it only works on characters who don't have pure hearts.
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I think it's reasonable to give him resistance to what harm in nature and what could take him out permanently (cause sealing him forever isn't all that different from just killing him)
The thing with 'we wait for him to demonstrate his resistance' doesn't really work with Zen'o since doing ANYTHING against him is considered as both suicide and condamning your universe / the whole timeline to be erased and since all the characters best placed to know about it say nothing can take him out, why would anyone try it ? it would litteraly take a character in-univers having an ability, not believing the angels when told 'your ability can't do shit' and then avoiding being erased by his GoD AND Zen'o's bodyguard before he can even try his ability and thus have Zen'o demonstrate resistance to anything, see how many hoop it take ?
The thing with 'we wait for him to demonstrate his resistance' doesn't really work with Zen'o since doing ANYTHING against him is considered as both suicide and condamning your universe / the whole timeline to be erased and since all the characters best placed to know about it say nothing can take him out, why would anyone try it ? it would litteraly take a character in-univers having an ability, not believing the angels when told 'your ability can't do shit' and then avoiding being erased by his GoD AND Zen'o's bodyguard before he can even try his ability and thus have Zen'o demonstrate resistance to anything, see how many hoop it take ?
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Pretty sure even if Zeno was sealed, he could destroy whatever was containing him from the inside out. I agree and doubt nothing could contain Zeno.
Udlmaster
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https://youtu.be/J1IAz4JA4YM?t=165ZERO7772 said:
Not really. When he forms he's already in Blue and the aura firing out of the Bottle is Blue to match.
Do you want to provide counter evidence to prove he powered up after he came out?
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I mean, Zeno could have resistence to time stop as he was able to see the entire fight between goku and hit during the uni 6 VS 7 arc. And during the ToP he never commented about hit using his time abilities or anything stopping him from seeing him fight.
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https://youtu.be/J1IAz4JA4YM?t=165
Not really. When he forms he's already in Blue and the aura firing out of the Bottle is Blue to match.
Do you want to provide counter evidence to prove he powered up after he came out?
The Aura used to cover his his shade is different than the usual Blue Aura. Not that it matters since the glow and aura only shown when Roshi broke the bottle
Not really. When he forms he's already in Blue and the aura firing out of the Bottle is Blue to match.
Do you want to provide counter evidence to prove he powered up after he came out?
The Aura used to cover his his shade is different than the usual Blue Aura. Not that it matters since the glow and aura only shown when Roshi broke the bottle
Udlmaster
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The Aura used to cover his his shade is different than the usual Blue Aura. Not that it matters since the glow and aura only shown when Roshi broke the bottleZERO7772 said:
And? He hadn't even taken physical form yet, unless you're implying that Vegeta and subsequently everyone in Dragon Ball are conscious while reduced to energy?
Udlmaster
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>You turn into energy with Mfuba? I don't remember such thing every being stated.
Yes, it turns you into energy, unless you're saying Bottle is bigger than Vegeta, Kind Piccolo and numerous other beings.
Like, of course it turns you into energy, you have to fit into a container.
>Doesn't matter if Vegeta was super sayian blue or green, he was helpless the moment he was put into the sealing.
This relates to him being concious while sealed, how?
Yes, it turns you into energy, unless you're saying Bottle is bigger than Vegeta, Kind Piccolo and numerous other beings.
Like, of course it turns you into energy, you have to fit into a container.
>Doesn't matter if Vegeta was super sayian blue or green, he was helpless the moment he was put into the sealing.
This relates to him being concious while sealed, how?
Udlmaster
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>Doesn't he just get smaller?
>Why does it matter if he's concious or not?
Because that was the point of the discussion...? Did you read the thread before posting your opinion on an argument you don't know about?
I'll turn that against you, I have observation on my side showing he's turned to energy, do you have any counter-evidence?ZERO7772 said:
>Why does it matter if he's concious or not?
Because that was the point of the discussion...? Did you read the thread before posting your opinion on an argument you don't know about?
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So you just wanna use visual effect as your evidence? I mean, you claim isn't really any different than mine like this. One could totally argue he just became similar in same sense.
I don't really care about giving Zeno resistance, the Vegeta point just caught my attention because I had this believe for a long time
I don't really care about giving Zeno resistance, the Vegeta point just caught my attention because I had this believe for a long time
Udlmaster
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>So you just wanna use visual effect as your evidence?
This is not a good counter point, let me give you an example:
"So you want to use visual effects as your evidence for Frieza destroying Planet Vegeta?"
"You what to use visual means as evidence a nuclear bomb is dangerous?"
Observation is the first point of the scientific theory, and is totally valid to use.
This is not a good counter point, let me give you an example:
"So you want to use visual effects as your evidence for Frieza destroying Planet Vegeta?"
"You what to use visual means as evidence a nuclear bomb is dangerous?"
Observation is the first point of the scientific theory, and is totally valid to use.
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This actually makes sense.
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The blue color could just be the default effect whenever the bottle is broken and someone comes out. All we see is Vegeta's silhouette until he powers up and then we see SSB.
An argument can also be made that he transformed right when the bottle was broken instead of transforming while the bottle was intact.
There is no real reason to assume he can actively transform while sealed because we don't know if the sealed entity is even capable of doing any activity. No need to make wild assumptions about something which we don't have any significant knowledge.
An argument can also be made that he transformed right when the bottle was broken instead of transforming while the bottle was intact.
There is no real reason to assume he can actively transform while sealed because we don't know if the sealed entity is even capable of doing any activity. No need to make wild assumptions about something which we don't have any significant knowledge.
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So any argument against Zeno getting resistance to the hax that harm in nature or can permanently take him out like sealing (that we saw in DB obviously) ? just asking in case i missed something
And how many hax fall under those categories in DB ? (since it obviously only apply to hax that have appeared in DB / that Whis know of)
And how many hax fall under those categories in DB ? (since it obviously only apply to hax that have appeared in DB / that Whis know of)
Udlmaster
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>The blue color could just be the default effect whenever the bottle is broken and someone comes out.
Has there been another case where a person has escaped from Master Roshi's bottles during the ToP? Because you're implying there's a rule here and that requires evidence.
>All we see is Vegeta's silhouette until he powers up and then we see SSB.
Not quite, before he powers up we actually see him briefly and he's already in Blue, he then summons his aura by powering up.
>An argument can also be made that he transformed right when the bottle was broken instead of transforming while the bottle was intact.
Then you have the make the argument Vegeta and subsequently everyone else in DB are conscious while they are reduced to energy, and that is another thing which would require counter evidence.
>There is no real reason to assume he can actively transform while sealed because we don't know if the sealed entity is even capable of doing any activity.
We do, because when he breaks the Bottle the Aura is blue and before he powers up he is in Blue, so we know he'd have to do it while in the bottle.
Has there been another case where a person has escaped from Master Roshi's bottles during the ToP? Because you're implying there's a rule here and that requires evidence.
>All we see is Vegeta's silhouette until he powers up and then we see SSB.
Not quite, before he powers up we actually see him briefly and he's already in Blue, he then summons his aura by powering up.
>An argument can also be made that he transformed right when the bottle was broken instead of transforming while the bottle was intact.
Then you have the make the argument Vegeta and subsequently everyone else in DB are conscious while they are reduced to energy, and that is another thing which would require counter evidence.
>There is no real reason to assume he can actively transform while sealed because we don't know if the sealed entity is even capable of doing any activity.
We do, because when he breaks the Bottle the Aura is blue and before he powers up he is in Blue, so we know he'd have to do it while in the bottle.
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I agree with AKM Sama
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I don't think it's a default colour. Zamasu had a slight green glow then a puff of green smoke.
https://youtu.be/8t9Fzkh155c
https://youtu.be/8t9Fzkh155c
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If Zen'o is impossible to kill by any means within the setting, should he get Invulnerability instead?
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