Zelda tiering and scaling revisions

[Dust_Collector]

So since we're gonna be waiting on calcs for AP, I wanna bring up the calc we use for the Massively FTL ratings.

Big issue with this is that it assumes the lightning bolt is moving at full speed when it gets frozen, but even if in flurry rush mode the lightning still appears on screen near instantly, only the impact is frozen.

 

[Chariot190]

So since we're gonna be waiting on calcs for AP, I wanna bring up the calc we use for the Massively FTL ratings.

Big issue with this is that it assumes the lightning bolt is moving at full speed when it gets frozen, but even if in flurry rush mode the lightning still appears on screen near instantly, only the impact is frozen.

speed issues.

Yeah let's save that for a thread by itself, in the meantime, looking for replacement feats or the next best thing would be best for whenever said thread gets created so we actually have something to go on.

 

[Armorchompy]

I think the rebound of a lightning lasts way longer than the actual lightning, for several seconds in fact. So that's probably wrong yes.

 

[Chariot190]

I think the rebound of a lightning lasts way longer than the actual lightning, for several seconds in fact. So that's probably wrong yes.

If what DDM says is true, it'd be a MHS+ feat using the impact length, but obviously MFTL+=/=MHS+.
"Lightning bolts last 30 microseconds or 0.00003 seconds according to google. So each sword he swings would be roughly 33333.3333333 m/s for each time he swings his sword. I've heard records being around 15 strikes, which would be around 500000 m/s or Mach 1457.72595. That's Massively Hypersonic+, "

To busy to fact check if it's legit though atm but that's what DDM posted.

I think there's Rel+/FTL feats elsewhere though, but scaling them to BOTW is gonna be a issue if it's even possible.

 

[Cyberblader90]

The Death Battles Thread

going off of this gif, it takes roughly 0.7 seconds for the timer to advance 0.03 seconds while using Rush. So Rush is a 23.3 times speed multiplier.

forums.spacebattles.com

"going off of this gif, it takes roughly 0.7 seconds for the timer to advance 0.03 seconds while using Rush.

So Rush is a 23.3 times speed multiplier."

thoughts?

 

[Dust_Collector]

I think there's Rel+/FTL feats elsewhere though, but scaling them to BOTW is gonna be a issue if it's even possible.

Well there's that FTL feat that was brought up in the other thread, plus there's a feat of the drones Vah Rudania deployed where they fly at somewhat comparable speeds to their searchlight. And there's plenty of feats we can calc that involve beamos beams (With the exception of the 2D games they seem to consistently showcase the properties of an actual light speed laser).

"going off of this gif, it takes roughly 0.7 seconds for the timer to advance 0.03 seconds while using Rush.

So Rush is a 23.3 times speed multiplier."

thoughts?

Could work, although I'm not sure how this site views multipliers that come from gameplay.

 

[Chariot190]

Well there's that FTL feat that was brought up in the other thread, plus there's a feat of the drones Vah Rudania deployed where they fly at somewhat comparable speeds to their searchlight. And there's plenty of feats we can calc that involve beamos beams (With the exception of the 2D games they seem to consistently showcase the properties of an actual light speed laser).

I was more thinking Beamos' and like, that one attack from Majora, which is why I said "idk if it's even possible to scale them to BOTW", well, at least till Ganon rolls up in BOTW2. But right now, it'd be kinda tough to scale them.
Beamos' are treated as light beams in verse iirc and called as much in a few guides. But idk our stance on Link cross scaling outside of them fighting the same Ganon.

Though if something of BOTW can be salvaged itself, that'd be optimal.

 

[Cyberblader90]

Zelda: Majora's Mask Feat - Majora's Moon Drop Revised - Naruto Forums

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Zelda: Majora's Mask Feats - The Four Giants and Majora | Naruto Forums

Published by ChaosTheory123 in the blog ChaosTheory123's blog. Views: 6

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The first calc assumes 10m/s instead of just using Link's in-game speed, the entire point is that the game is downscaled in terms of size.



Child link= 1.3m ish
Stride is: 0.4 height meaning 0,52m
Dude takes 1 second for at most 5 steps so speed is like 2,6m/s at most
Old speed is 10m/s
Ratio: x0,26

Zelda: Majora's Mask Feats - The Four Giants and Majora

Clock Town = 254 pixels Giant = 216 pixels Giant/Clock Town = 0.85 Clock Town = 20,053.523 meters Giant = 17,045.495 meters Ok, what's that give me? As described here, they cover the radius of termina in 100 steps How do I...

www.fanverse.org

Giant height: 4 483,8287m
Giant's stride: 1 727,1072m
Walk speed: 11501 kph or 3194.722 m/s or Mach 9,3119533
Run speed: 41929.6 kph or 11 647 m/s or Mach 34
New termina diameter: 353 221,44m

Ingame, the moon drop can kill you even while you are under ground, which may prove it also craters

Calculated Results

Energy required to crater Termina: 3.26e25 Joules or 7.79 Petatons of TNT

We seem to give planet to the moon drop from this statement:


Thoughts?

 

[Chariot190]

Feat is at minimum High 6-A, it didn't destroy just the country of Termina, but the whole world of that realm. Forget where exactly it was said, but it isn't that statement from in-game, it's from some guide or maybe the Historia, I'll look later.

 

[Armorchompy]

"Annihilating this world" is very vague, yes, especially since Termina is kinda weird.

 

[Cyberblader90]

keep in mind the 7 petaton recalc above assumes it craters termina

 

[Armorchompy]

I don't think it's illogical to assume that, although there's probably other explanations for it killing you even if underground.

 

[Theglassman12]

Isn’t the underground part a bit moot when we see Link on the surface seeing the destruction of Termina in front of him?

 

[Armorchompy]

... yeah i guess we do. baseline High 6-A, then?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

The gallery in the telescope room is has a piece of paper on the wall drawn in a way that shows Earth and Moon. The moon being small is likely do to pixel scaling limitations and thus simply moving the moon would be Moon level. And annihilated the world would still be High 6-A at minimum even if we disregarded the moon's size.

 

[Armorchompy]

I think the idea is that the moon Majora's moving is not the actual satellite orbiting Earth, but a different, much smaller one. It would make sense, considering it's fully erased at the end of the game.

 

[Cyberblader90]

The gallery in the telescope room is has a piece of paper on the wall drawn in a way that shows Earth and Moon. The moon being small is likely do to pixel scaling limitations and thus simply moving the moon would be Moon level. And annihilated the world would still be High 6-A at minimum even if we disregarded the moon's size.

im not contesting the moon size. im contesting the clock town size from this calc:

Clock Town size (Zelda)

One more silly calculation right? Well I just popped in my collecter's edition disk, and after messing around with the Oni Link glitches, I figured, hey, I can find out how big clock town is, I mean, I DID say I was going to do it. Yeah, I...

www.fanverse.org

 

[Chariot190]

Isn’t the underground part a bit moot when we see Link on the surface seeing the destruction of Termina in front of him?

No, if the whole of termina is destroyed, it'd effect the underground parts too by association, given they're apart of Termina, so either way.

Not that it would matter, it destroyed far beyond Termina, even assuming it didn't planet bust, which is fair obviously, I can think of a few reasons why it wouldn't have, it at least, surface wiped.

Termina is innately weird but it's still a world, we know this due to, well, a moon, "them" and also the existence of neighboring countries (where the garou come from).

If you really want to calc it, what about a surface sized fireball? Given the impact creates a giant burst of fire and a wave of flame that washes over everything as well as Majora emerging from flames after the destruction?

That or just go with standard surface wipe. I'm fine with either.

It would make sense, considering it's fully erased at the end of the game.

The whole world is deleted actually, **** the encyclopedia but, the world of Majora's mask ceases existing when Link leaves.
Also there's statements in game that imply Majora transformed the moon into what we see. Moon definitely suffers from size limitations, especially given every time we see it it's different in size.

Edit: Also on mobile ATM, excuse the wonky wording.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yeah, weird to consider it a Small country sized town; though backstories did say it used to be much larger. Example is Anju did say Stockpit Inn used to be a massive Inn for a lot of people, but some events happening to Clock Town and businesses either forcing to move or getting shut down resulted in it just being a tiny inn with two rooms. And that's basically Clocktown's entire history; the Clock Town we see in game really is not that big in canon.

But Chariot is otherwise correct to my knowledge as I just got notice of his post while writing this.

 

[Armorchompy]

The whole world is deleted actually, **** the encyclopedia but, the world of Majora's mask ceases existing when Link leaves.

It doesn't until he leaves though, while I might be mistaken I think the Moon just vanishes during the ending.

 

[Cyberblader90]

this is what the historia says:

 

[Chariot190]

It doesn't until he leaves though, while I might be mistaken I think the Moon just vanishes during the ending.

It does yeah. But that was indeed the actual moon, or well, used to be anyway.

Doesn't matter though that much, the moon could be the size of a planet, or a speck of sand, what matters is the result of the impact, not what caused it. Because either way, it's destruction can be quantified regardless of how big it is.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

We see like some kind of blue wave on what appears to be trying to pull it back, but shortly after it dissipates, it looks like the moon just poofs.

 

[Armorchompy]

Alright, seems like it's the real moon then. It's kinda weird considering even those illustrations show it as pretty small, but 5-C is probably fine.

 

[Cyberblader90]

any one got the ingame chart for the moon size?

 

[Armorchompy]

Looking through the profiles, Skull Kid's durability seems to scale from the Moon drop and I find that a bit weird- I mean, even if he knew he'd survive the impact, why would he ever hit himself with it? He's a prankster turned into a ****** by Majora's influence, but he's not a *********. Also, he does shrug off most of Link's attacks, but he's still inconvenienced by them a bit as you're able to knock the Ocarina away from him.

 

[Chariot190]

So we have a statement saying Termina is located on a earth (kinda).
And three world destroying statements.

If we wanna be lazy we could just do surface wiping and call it a day.

show it as pretty small

Tbh it probably is a bit small, but I'd wager that's because Skull Kid made it small. It's implied it used to be a normal moon till Majora went nah **** you and made it spooky.

So either way. Though this does actually imply something, instead of calcing the destruction, what about calcing the moon's KE given it takes 3 days to hit so we can easily get a speed. We know it's caused by Majora's TK too, we even see him accelerate it and power it up at the end of the game.

I'd say we could maybe take him potentially transforming it but that's definitely hax.

Though this is assuming he doesn't scale to tier 4 off the pocket dimension shit, because if he does this is kinda redundant.

Looking through the profiles, Skull Kid's durability seems to scale from the Moon drop and I find that a bit weird- I mean, even if he knew he'd survive the impact, why would he ever hit himself with it? He's a prankster turned into a ****** by Majora's influence, but he's not a *********. Also, he does shrug off most of Link's attacks, but he's still inconvenienced by them a bit as you're able to knock the Ocarina away from him.

Actually, I don't think he does survive, he's gone in the game over screen, only the Mask remains, Skull Kid probably no shit got ******* vaporized, F. It scales to Majora though as he's at the epicenter of his drop and is completely unharmed. And we can confirm it in a few bad endings.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I don't think Skull Kid really has any feats to think of; all his powers come from Majora. He should just scale from being immune to everything Link throws at him.

 

[Cyberblader90]

So we have a statement saying Termina is located on a earth (kinda).
And three world destroying statements.

If we wanna be lazy we could just do surface wiping and call it a day.



Tbh it probably is a bit small, but I'd wager that's because Skull Kid made it small. It's implied it used to be a normal moon till Majora went nah **** you and made it spooky.

So either way. Though this does actually imply something, instead of calcing the destruction, what about calcing the moon's KE given it takes 3 days to hit so we can easily get a speed. We know it's caused by Majora's TK too, we even see him accelerate it and power it up at the end of the game.

I'd say we could maybe take him potentially transforming it but that's definitely hax.

Though this is assuming he doesn't scale to tier 4 off the pocket dimension shit, because if he does this is kinda redundant.

Actually, I don't think he does survive, he's gone in the game over screen, only the Mask remains, Skull Kid probably no shit got ******* vaporized, F. It scales to Majora though as he's at the epicenter of his drop and is completely unharmed. And we can confirm it in a few bad endings.

when it drops at the end its on fire, so we can use ablation speed

 

[Armorchompy]

Though this is assuming he doesn't scale to tier 4 off the pocket dimension shit, because if he does this is kinda redundant.

It's not fully redundant, this would scale to Skull Kid and the four giants.

Actually, I don't think he does survive, he's gone in the game over screen, only the Mask remains, Skull Kid probably no shit got ******* vaporized, F. It scales to Majora though as he's at the epicenter of his drop and is completely unharmed. And we can confirm it in a few bad endings.

I mean this would end up scaling to Majora anyway, so that's consistent

 

[Armorchompy]

I don't think Skull Kid really has any feats to think of; all his powers come from Majora. He should just scale from being immune to everything Link throws at him.

Well he has some stuff in twilight princess ig. But considering Majora says he's more powerful or something like that after shaking him off, I think the implication is SK only can draw a certain level of power from it.

 

[Chariot190]

It's not fully redundant, this would scale to Skull Kid and the four giants.

Actually you're right, it would scale to the Giants, I forgot about them oops.
Yeah I guess this is worth doing, they need this as they scale to 1/4th.
Plus Skull Kid.

 

[Cyberblader90]

they already only scale to 1/4th on their profiles

 

[Chariot190]

they already only scale to 1/4th on their profiles

I know, I'm saying we need to figure it out precisely because they scale. Even if Majora scales higher, this feat in particular is important because other dudes rely on it.

Anyway KE is small planet level if we use actual moon mass. Though I'd prefer calcing the more concrete results like the collateral it did over using that.

 

[Cyberblader90]

so going through different shots, the moon is one of the most inconsistent things i ever scene for scale. Its ff7 Meteor bad.

Im going to propose this and see how it goes

High 6a from surface wipe option, possibly 5-c given its size is so inconsistent. The chart (havent seen it yet) seems to be the only one indicating a irl moon size. As such, I would propose "possibly 5-c"

 

[Cyberblader90]

found it

 

[Cyberblader90]

what is the context for this chart, such as where was it located?

 

[Chariot190]

what is the context for this chart, such as where was it located?

Either in the Astral observatory or the bomb shop (they were planning bomb fueled rocket project to get into space, a bit of a joke but eh).

One or the other, ik the latter has a moon pic beside it tho.
Though if it's the former it'd be trust worthy, the wizard dude spent his whole life studying astrology.

 

[Cyberblader90]

we need to find out for sure

 

[Dust_Collector]

Yeah it's on the wall in the astral observatory right next to the pots, so it should be trust worthy.