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I have a bunch of stuff I want to add notes to which includes those two but I can't post them until later today
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Zelda tiering and scaling revisions
- Thread starter Theglassman12
- Start date
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I’ll wait for you to post them.
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lets start with demise.
New arguments in favor for either realm creation or warping the realm:
Creation:
“The creators did tell me a few times that they didn’t want to set any story points in stone, as that would restrict them in future games. I worked on three Zelda games screen text. Even when writing the text, it was funky because they were very picky about the wording so it wasn’t specific. It made it sound strange, but hey it was their game so I did the text the way they wanted.” - Dan Owsen
The argument here is as follows:
> Every time the Devs and writing team are always involved in the making of the games (or materials made to reflect the lore). Oracle of ages and oracle of seasons, Age of calamity (they allowed team ninja to do it and consider it Canon, because during the presentation they said that Team Ninja had proper understanding of their lore). Cadence of Hyrule was closely followed and supervised by the Devs (stated by the creator themselves) and it was considered to be ambiguously canon despite having no official placement in the timeline.
Under this notion, the english version of skyward sword says:
"I shall prepare a place for us".
The argument is that he created the realm to fight link in, which would include the sun in the background.
Right after the quote above demise says this:
In context this would either refer to the world you fight him in, or what he plans on doing to the world in general when he gets the triforce.
Warping
Here Demise warps the environment. All that can be scene in game is the clouds present and the color change to the background. Upon being knocked down, the clouds become thunderclouds:
Below is a statement that may support the notion the entire realm was warped, which would include the sun in the background.
"Link and Demise do battle in a hyperspace controlled by evil power"
The effects of the warp disappear upon demise's death.
Interesting note is the realm being called a hyperspace.
Fi also says this:
Would like input from everyone for either argument.
New arguments in favor for either realm creation or warping the realm:
Creation:
“The creators did tell me a few times that they didn’t want to set any story points in stone, as that would restrict them in future games. I worked on three Zelda games screen text. Even when writing the text, it was funky because they were very picky about the wording so it wasn’t specific. It made it sound strange, but hey it was their game so I did the text the way they wanted.” - Dan Owsen
The argument here is as follows:
> Every time the Devs and writing team are always involved in the making of the games (or materials made to reflect the lore). Oracle of ages and oracle of seasons, Age of calamity (they allowed team ninja to do it and consider it Canon, because during the presentation they said that Team Ninja had proper understanding of their lore). Cadence of Hyrule was closely followed and supervised by the Devs (stated by the creator themselves) and it was considered to be ambiguously canon despite having no official placement in the timeline.
Under this notion, the english version of skyward sword says:
"I shall prepare a place for us".
The argument is that he created the realm to fight link in, which would include the sun in the background.
Right after the quote above demise says this:
In context this would either refer to the world you fight him in, or what he plans on doing to the world in general when he gets the triforce.
Warping
Here Demise warps the environment. All that can be scene in game is the clouds present and the color change to the background. Upon being knocked down, the clouds become thunderclouds:
Below is a statement that may support the notion the entire realm was warped, which would include the sun in the background.
"Link and Demise do battle in a hyperspace controlled by evil power"
The effects of the warp disappear upon demise's death.
Interesting note is the realm being called a hyperspace.
Fi also says this:
Would like input from everyone for either argument.
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as for endless night:
If you try to do song of passing in ww during endless night, It directly says a curse has put a halt on time. It is not an ap feat
If you try to do song of passing in ww during endless night, It directly says a curse has put a halt on time. It is not an ap feat
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Alright, so
Current recalc of Faron and Levias forgot to square root for the calculation
Revising quickly using their measurements…
Revising this because it scaled off the map portion that was cut off:
https://www.narutoforums.org/xfa-blog-entry/hyrule-and-shit-legend-of-zelda.21698/#comment-234784
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_of_Marmara
Area: Surface area 11,350 km^2, calc said smallest sea, did not use such.
370px by 232px, 85840px^2
11350/85840 = 0.13222273998 km^2/px^2
Therefore square rooting
0.36362444909 km/px
Port thing: 45px or 16363.1002 meters
Port thing is at the lowest 40px (I'm this as generous I can be with the halfx2 method)
Map is 793px across or: 324398.461465 meters
Old map: 3732000 meters
https://www.narutoforums.org/xfa-blog-entry/faron-does-a-shit-job-legend-of-zelda.21703/
Ratio: (324398.461465/3732000)^4 = 0.00005708849x
Faron is now: 113.16 gigatons of TNT Large island level https://web.archive.org/web/2016050...ke-leviass-thunderhead-legend-of-zelda.21708/
Ratio: (324398.461465)^5 = 0.00000496233x
Levias is now: 37 gigatons of TNT Island level
Fairly consistent overall
Current recalc of Faron and Levias forgot to square root for the calculation
Revising quickly using their measurements…
Revising this because it scaled off the map portion that was cut off:
https://www.narutoforums.org/xfa-blog-entry/hyrule-and-shit-legend-of-zelda.21698/#comment-234784
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_of_Marmara
Area: Surface area 11,350 km^2, calc said smallest sea, did not use such.
370px by 232px, 85840px^2
11350/85840 = 0.13222273998 km^2/px^2
Therefore square rooting
0.36362444909 km/px
Port thing: 45px or 16363.1002 meters
Port thing is at the lowest 40px (I'm this as generous I can be with the halfx2 method)
Map is 793px across or: 324398.461465 meters
Old map: 3732000 meters
https://www.narutoforums.org/xfa-blog-entry/faron-does-a-shit-job-legend-of-zelda.21703/
Ratio: (324398.461465/3732000)^4 = 0.00005708849x
Faron is now: 113.16 gigatons of TNT Large island level https://web.archive.org/web/2016050...ke-leviass-thunderhead-legend-of-zelda.21708/
Ratio: (324398.461465)^5 = 0.00000496233x
Levias is now: 37 gigatons of TNT Island level
Fairly consistent overall
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Tbf Ganondorf causing the storm iirc is what makes it an endless night, which is still calculable. In fact
Given how big the great sea is in WW, comparing it to the Sea of Marmara seems like a good middle end imo. So, 11350 km^2
Cumulonimbus thickness bc rain and lightning, so 8km
Meaning: 90800 km^3 or 9.08e13 m^3
LWQ of 2 g/m^3
Mass = 1.816e14 grams
Condensation: 2465.087 j/g
Energy: 4.476598e17 joules, 107 megatons of TNT Large city level for Ganondorf, and iirc he was weakened at this point so not bad
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The demise line on “the world he would build” sounds like a triforce thing he was going to do, cause he said the line after “I’ve waited eons, I can spare a few more moments with you” so if he was talking about the dimension he’d supposedly make then it doesn’t make sense in context when he’s talking about getting the triforce to make everything in his image.
Well that is proof he’s warping the environment, though is it possible to calc the storm made in that fight or not?
controlled by evil power is a bit too vague to go off of besides the whole “it was his homeworld” line in the original text.
Fi’s description sounds like a power nullification feat to me since he’s nullifying Link’s way to use Skyward strike, hence why he has to use the thunderbolts to attack instead.
Well that is proof he’s warping the environment, though is it possible to calc the storm made in that fight or not?
controlled by evil power is a bit too vague to go off of besides the whole “it was his homeworld” line in the original text.
Fi’s description sounds like a power nullification feat to me since he’s nullifying Link’s way to use Skyward strike, hence why he has to use the thunderbolts to attack instead.
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dark world:
The dark world feat was the wish from ganondorf turning the sacred realm into the dark world:
When the Sacred Realm is introduced in A Link to the Past, it’s explained that when Ganon seized the Triforce his wish turned the Sacred Realm into the Dark World. This makes sense in the context of that game given the manual states that the Moon Pearl protects the user from the magic of the Triforce. It's also stated that the people who enter take on the form of their inner thoughts due to the Triforce's power in the Dark World.
Other material expands upon this alongside the game itself.
Continuity snarl
In Ocarina of Time, Ganondorf entered the Sacred Realm and it altered to become a Hell-like state because the realm changed due to Ganon’s heart. Then when he killed Link in the Downfall timeline, his wish on the Triforce changed the Sacred Realm fully into the Dark World. Instead of the Sacred Realm altering based on the hearts of those who entered it, it altered the people who entered based on their heart instead.
People entered the Sacred Realm prior to ALttP without having their forms changed (Link and Gandorf himself in ALTTP prologue manual). As well as the fact the triforce itself states what Ganon’s wish did in ALTTP and a lot of material directly references it’s power having influence over people. So when people say the Triforce altered the Sacred Realm they may be technically correct, even if a lot of the mechanics of the Sacred Realm are obtuse and indirect.
Link's wish however did undo the change, reverting the dark world back to the sacred realm, though as seen in the scan above, gradually.
Empowerment:
Size of the dark world
Dark world has a visible sun and main world.
With comparisons to the Light World, the arguments for it being a universe come from this blog to my understanding:
vsbattles.fandom.com
The dark world feat was the wish from ganondorf turning the sacred realm into the dark world:
When the Sacred Realm is introduced in A Link to the Past, it’s explained that when Ganon seized the Triforce his wish turned the Sacred Realm into the Dark World. This makes sense in the context of that game given the manual states that the Moon Pearl protects the user from the magic of the Triforce. It's also stated that the people who enter take on the form of their inner thoughts due to the Triforce's power in the Dark World.
Other material expands upon this alongside the game itself.
Continuity snarl
In Ocarina of Time, Ganondorf entered the Sacred Realm and it altered to become a Hell-like state because the realm changed due to Ganon’s heart. Then when he killed Link in the Downfall timeline, his wish on the Triforce changed the Sacred Realm fully into the Dark World. Instead of the Sacred Realm altering based on the hearts of those who entered it, it altered the people who entered based on their heart instead.
People entered the Sacred Realm prior to ALttP without having their forms changed (Link and Gandorf himself in ALTTP prologue manual). As well as the fact the triforce itself states what Ganon’s wish did in ALTTP and a lot of material directly references it’s power having influence over people. So when people say the Triforce altered the Sacred Realm they may be technically correct, even if a lot of the mechanics of the Sacred Realm are obtuse and indirect.
Link's wish however did undo the change, reverting the dark world back to the sacred realm, though as seen in the scan above, gradually.
Empowerment:
Size of the dark world
Dark world has a visible sun and main world.
With comparisons to the Light World, the arguments for it being a universe come from this blog to my understanding:
Explaining "Hyrule"
vsbattles.fandom.com
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in regards to the japanese statement here it is:
"Ware ga yo wo shihaisuru made no wazukana jikan wo ningenrashiku nakikuru ga ii...
Daga mazoku no yo ni aragau i ga aru to iunonara...
Ware no ato wo ottekoi. Sukoshi deareba matteiyarou..."
"I do not care if you value your life and run away. Go ahead and weep like a human during the little time left before I rule the world... But if you claim of having the courage to step into the Demon Tribe's world, then... Come after me. I shall wait for a little while."
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The Triforce can be Uni but no one should scale beyond having the Triforce.
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in regards to that, lets talk empowerment:
and two more quotes from the game itself:
Nintendo Player's Guide (SNES) The Legend of Zelda A Link to the Past (1992) : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
Nintendo Player's Guide (SNES) The Legend of Zelda A Link to the Past (1992)
archive.org
and two more quotes from the game itself:
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That's not how it works since specific people are given the ability or put in specific circumstances where they can challenge triforce users.
And that's really rare the most consistent are always Link and Ganondorf or people being powered posses by Ganon.
I'm sorry but there's no way we are all doing that same asinine argument of "No one should scale to the Triforce and if they do? Let's call it an outlier."
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Plus Breath of the wild Zelda via the Triforce in the opening scene of age of calamity created a new timeline.
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im not sure about that one:
it’s unlikely that Zelda has the full Triforce in BoTW/AoC. The Making a Champion book makes it clear that the sealing power she awakened to and used on Ganon is something her entire bloodline can do, including her mother when Zelda was a child. It also specifically points out that while the Triforce on her hand alludes to it, its connection to the triforce has not been confirmed as the same thing. It’s likely that the Triforce mark people have seen on her hand is similar to the mark of the hero on Link’s hand, which simply signifies his connection to the goddesses (and is distinct from the mark of actually having the Triforce). This makes sense given Zelda’s power was passed down via the goddess Hylia.
it’s unlikely that Zelda has the full Triforce in BoTW/AoC. The Making a Champion book makes it clear that the sealing power she awakened to and used on Ganon is something her entire bloodline can do, including her mother when Zelda was a child. It also specifically points out that while the Triforce on her hand alludes to it, its connection to the triforce has not been confirmed as the same thing. It’s likely that the Triforce mark people have seen on her hand is similar to the mark of the hero on Link’s hand, which simply signifies his connection to the goddesses (and is distinct from the mark of actually having the Triforce). This makes sense given Zelda’s power was passed down via the goddess Hylia.
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I wasn’t joking when I said this was ready
vsbattles.fandom.com
malladus feat that might be worth looking into
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This is literally debunked.
Also they don't know what is the triforce since they lost information about it.
They could have easily assumed that it was part of the royal bloodline but events in breath of the wild and AoC debunk that notion.
Since we literally see her pray to all 3 golden goddesses so that they can give her power (in BOTW) .
"-Regarding this power that has been handed down over time, prayer will awaken the power to Seal Ganon away.Or so I've been told, my whole life and yet grandmother heard them the voices from the spirit realm."-Zela
Literally this power has nothing to do with bloodline they just assumed because they didn't have actual information about it.
Zelda needs to pray to the golden goddesses to receive said power that turns out to be the Triforce.
If it was part of the bloodline why pray to other beings to give her powers?
And it dosent change the fact that Zelda still created a new-timeline.
Plus this the Triforce literally appears within her combos.
I'm sorry but to say that she doesn't have it is asinine.
The Triforce does not randomly mark people. Since Hylia's powers and the Triforce are 2 extremely different things.
They never get mixed up because when we talk about Zelda's actual powers they ALWAYS call it the Light Force and never mix the symbol of the Triforce in it.
Also need I remind you that Age of Calamity came out AFTER the masterwork material meaning they have already confirmed information heavily implied in the previous source material.
Also the Mark of the hero only involves Link it has literally nothing to do with Zelda.
Mark of the hero only appears on people who are from the bloodline of Link or is a reincarnation of Link.
Throughout the whole Zelda series she has never been said to have anything similar to the mark of the hero at the very least the Light force but never something like a triforce tattoo.
Also they don't know what is the triforce since they lost information about it.
They could have easily assumed that it was part of the royal bloodline but events in breath of the wild and AoC debunk that notion.
Since we literally see her pray to all 3 golden goddesses so that they can give her power (in BOTW) .
"-Regarding this power that has been handed down over time, prayer will awaken the power to Seal Ganon away.Or so I've been told, my whole life and yet grandmother heard them the voices from the spirit realm."-Zela
Literally this power has nothing to do with bloodline they just assumed because they didn't have actual information about it.
Zelda needs to pray to the golden goddesses to receive said power that turns out to be the Triforce.
If it was part of the bloodline why pray to other beings to give her powers?
And it dosent change the fact that Zelda still created a new-timeline.
Plus this the Triforce literally appears within her combos.
I'm sorry but to say that she doesn't have it is asinine.
The Triforce does not randomly mark people. Since Hylia's powers and the Triforce are 2 extremely different things.
They never get mixed up because when we talk about Zelda's actual powers they ALWAYS call it the Light Force and never mix the symbol of the Triforce in it.
Also need I remind you that Age of Calamity came out AFTER the masterwork material meaning they have already confirmed information heavily implied in the previous source material.
Also the Mark of the hero only involves Link it has literally nothing to do with Zelda.
Mark of the hero only appears on people who are from the bloodline of Link or is a reincarnation of Link.
Throughout the whole Zelda series she has never been said to have anything similar to the mark of the hero at the very least the Light force but never something like a triforce tattoo.
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Like stated in the interview with Owen somethings were purposely left Ambiguous because they sometimes want to avoid setting some story points in stones.
But once AoC came out they basically confirmed everything that happened especially at the end when the Triforce manifest itself again.
But once AoC came out they basically confirmed everything that happened especially at the end when the Triforce manifest itself again.
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add to op malladus stated to destroy the world
dark world malladus thing
zelda timeline
all three need to be discussed
dark world malladus thing
zelda timeline
all three need to be discussed
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@Cyberblader90 are there any other points you want to add or is this all you wanted to post?
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for the moment.
I can list feats/arguments i dont think abide to vsb standards, or are to vague
doesnt work/vague
Zant- realm merge and sols
Vaati- starry realm
light arrow planet flip argument
endless night
windfish
Neutral for now:
both malladus arguments
zelda timeline argument
agreement depends on site reality warp standards for ap:
dark world
I can list feats/arguments i dont think abide to vsb standards, or are to vague
doesnt work/vague
Zant- realm merge and sols
Vaati- starry realm
light arrow planet flip argument
endless night
windfish
Neutral for now:
both malladus arguments
zelda timeline argument
agreement depends on site reality warp standards for ap:
dark world
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0:55-2:00
The argument for new timeline creation
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Terrako was awakened and powered by Zelda (via triforce or light force more likely triforce) heard her wishes and traveled to the Past which created an entire timeline.
Ganon's malice saw the threat so he sent pieces of his malice in the past to stop what might happen.
No other guardians aside from terrako shows that kind of power since he was literally powered by Zelda (TF).
Later on during the game you meet another Terrako controlled by malice and he shows no time manipulation power.
Heroes from the Breath of the wild timeline are actively summoned in this alternate reality by terrako .
And at the end of the game it's stated when they get back home nothing would have changed since its not part of the same world anymore.
Ganon's malice saw the threat so he sent pieces of his malice in the past to stop what might happen.
No other guardians aside from terrako shows that kind of power since he was literally powered by Zelda (TF).
Later on during the game you meet another Terrako controlled by malice and he shows no time manipulation power.
Heroes from the Breath of the wild timeline are actively summoned in this alternate reality by terrako .
And at the end of the game it's stated when they get back home nothing would have changed since its not part of the same world anymore.
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lorule was briefly discussed in one of the prior threads. i can do a write up for it later
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How does a person traveling to the future/past whatever mean Zelda is the one who created the timeline? I'm sorry but I don't get that. He was empowered, sure, but the laws of causality and multiple worlds theory dictate that's a natural cause of action, not a product of her? Unless I'm missing the part where it's clearly shown she did it.
And also no, no one's ever fought someone with the full Triforce in canon. In Lttp Ganon didn't even use it to amp him iirc nor did he have it on person. It was in another room.
And also no, no one's ever fought someone with the full Triforce in canon. In Lttp Ganon didn't even use it to amp him iirc nor did he have it on person. It was in another room.
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Literally Ganondorf fought her twice one in BOTW and a Second time in AoC.
"No one ever fought a full triforce user" what a joke.
Like said above not only did he fight a full triforce Zelda twice there's also this that debunks your ridiculous notion of Ganondorf not being amped at all.
The Triforce dosent have to be on a person to Amp them lmao.
"Ganon used the power of the Triforce to attack the kingdom of Hyrule." - referring to ALTTP
"The power of the Triforce controlled their enemies and gave them INHUMAN STRENGTH".
You don't need to have the Triforce on you to be powered by it my guy. so please stop it with this ridiculous notions.
All these arguments have been debunked so many times its a surprise people are still using them.
I don’t even understand what you are trying to say there about Zelda. Yeah Zelda didn’t travel back in time. But Zeldas wish obviously is the catalyst.
Zelda makes a wish (you know cause the Triforce grants wishes) and constantly, we see this on screen, fate and time are tampered with to make sure that wish is seen to completion (as shown at the end of wind waker).
The wish wasn’t just Terrako jumping back but everything Terrako did was part of it. Because it had to make sure everyone was safe.
Terrako inherited Zelda's will via the wish she subconsciously made.
Also time travel in the zelda verse doesn't automatically mean a new timeline will form for example the oracle games.
Or literally Majora's mask.... Or literally Skyward sword.
"No one ever fought a full triforce user" what a joke.
Like said above not only did he fight a full triforce Zelda twice there's also this that debunks your ridiculous notion of Ganondorf not being amped at all.
The Triforce dosent have to be on a person to Amp them lmao.
"Ganon used the power of the Triforce to attack the kingdom of Hyrule." - referring to ALTTP
"The power of the Triforce controlled their enemies and gave them INHUMAN STRENGTH".
You don't need to have the Triforce on you to be powered by it my guy. so please stop it with this ridiculous notions.
All these arguments have been debunked so many times its a surprise people are still using them.
I don’t even understand what you are trying to say there about Zelda. Yeah Zelda didn’t travel back in time. But Zeldas wish obviously is the catalyst.
Zelda makes a wish (you know cause the Triforce grants wishes) and constantly, we see this on screen, fate and time are tampered with to make sure that wish is seen to completion (as shown at the end of wind waker).
The wish wasn’t just Terrako jumping back but everything Terrako did was part of it. Because it had to make sure everyone was safe.
Terrako inherited Zelda's will via the wish she subconsciously made.
Also time travel in the zelda verse doesn't automatically mean a new timeline will form for example the oracle games.
Or literally Majora's mask.... Or literally Skyward sword.
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Plus as shown in ALTTP the Triforce is an actual sentient being that is able to sense the desire of what people want.
This is further reinforced in skyward sword when Fi literally tells you that you just have to desire it and the Triforce will make it so.
Oh and let's not forget the fight against full triforce Cia iirc.
This is further reinforced in skyward sword when Fi literally tells you that you just have to desire it and the Triforce will make it so.
Oh and let's not forget the fight against full triforce Cia iirc.
Dust_Collector
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Ok am I misreading or is it actually being argued the power of the Triforce just popped a new timeline into existence due to Age of Calamity and that it wasn't the result of time travel?
Dust_Collector
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It looks to have the same issues as other pocket dimension related feats, nothing suggests Malladus actually created that realm, and there's nothing suggesting that the Demon trains destruction and everyone being tossed out into Hyrule means the entire dimension, like, imploded or something. Although the argument of Vaati being weakened in FSA and as such that version of Ganon (And by extension TOP Ganon) not scaling to Vaatis power from MC and the first Four Swords seems interesting.I wasn’t joking when I said this was ready
malladus feat that might be worth looking into
Or more likely the new timeline was created by Terrako time travelling and altering what happened in the great calamity.
How does Terrako having powers other guardians don't mean that he was powered by Zelda/the Triforce? He's get's awakened by her but all his powers use the blue shiekah energy and display the same shiekah runes that all their technology does. The other Terrako controlled by malice does show time powers, Astor specifically uses him to see visions of the great calamity from the original timeline.
Can you provide proof of any of this? The opening of Age of Calamity has Zelda awakening her powers while saying she must protect everyone and then Terrako deciding to travel back in time, but where is it shown or implied she made a wish that the Triforce granted? Even then what would any of this amount to besides... the Triforce making Terrako time travel?
Your right in that time travel in Zelda doesn't automatically cause new timelines to form, but it's still a fact that it can happen. Given that Age of Calamity only talks about a new world being born after Terrako arrives from the future, it just seems like it's working on OOT logic.
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Cause what happened in context was that Zelda didn't send Link back into the past but to a new timeline.
It was an already existing timeline parallel from the adult.
This is a completely new timeline made with, like you said, different past events than the original.
One prime example being link getting the master sword much MUCH later than he is supposed to (in the BOTW timeline he got it when he was still a young child.).
Age of Calamity already had different past events than the original botw when terrako just arrived to the new timeline. The final battle with calamity ganon kinda backs up the claim that zelda is at least enhancing his abilities.
It is literally shown her "making a wish" when she says "I want to protect everyone!" it does not matter if she consciously made a wish or not since the Triforce can act on just the desire of a user.
This is no different than the wind waker events when boat king made a wish for the kids to find a new land, defeat Ganondorf, let the place sink underwater and to let them come out alive from this fight.
During the battle Link is suddenly matching Ganondorf and not being curbstomped anymore, also you got Ganondorf actively attacking Zelda he lands in front of her but instead of outright killing her he suddenly SHEATH HIS SWORD and takes the time to back hand her in the face.
The Triforce is obviously influencing the outcome of this like just like the king desired.
After saying that line, a golden light literally powers terrako up. he gets a vision of the scene that literally just happened a moment ago (literally several miles away from the castle) and he proceededs to travel back in time.
How would he know about what's happening and what Zelda said if not for the TF giving him a vision/memory.
It would be ridiculous to assume he just "felt" like jumping through time, when context is given us in the opening scene.
Him showing blue sheikah symbols is literally irrelevant to this discussion, because in the entire game of BOTW and Age of Calamity terrako from the BOTW timeline is the only one that has actively shown any Time manipulation powers.
There's literally no mention of other sheikah techs with powers on that kind of scale.
Especially when it's hammered into our heads that Sheikah tech have clear limitations (like being unable to copy/recreate the master sword and all its abilities.)
"The other Terrako controlled by malice does show time powers, Astor specifically uses him to see visions of the great calamity from the original timeline."
I'm sorry but are you serious my guy? That terrako is only able to show visions from the future because he was infected by the Malice that travel within Terrako's portal.
And we know that ganon's malice is a conscious an extansion of his will.
He literally imprints pieces of himself (infect them) via malice.
Seeing flashes and small visions of the future is literally not enough to prove he actually have time manipulation. especially when evil Terrako is never shown to actively use his so called "time travel" abilities.
Its literally some basic memory manipulation (clairvoyance?)
Unlike BOTW Terrako who literally summons on screen the next generation of champions and make them appear in front of their predecessors with pin point accuracy and timing.
Showing visions of the future does not equal having time manip on that scale.
Especially when you don't even show actual time travel powers throughout whole game.
Terrako is heavily stated to be a unique guardian.
It was an already existing timeline parallel from the adult.
This is a completely new timeline made with, like you said, different past events than the original.
One prime example being link getting the master sword much MUCH later than he is supposed to (in the BOTW timeline he got it when he was still a young child.).
Age of Calamity already had different past events than the original botw when terrako just arrived to the new timeline. The final battle with calamity ganon kinda backs up the claim that zelda is at least enhancing his abilities.
It is literally shown her "making a wish" when she says "I want to protect everyone!" it does not matter if she consciously made a wish or not since the Triforce can act on just the desire of a user.
This is no different than the wind waker events when boat king made a wish for the kids to find a new land, defeat Ganondorf, let the place sink underwater and to let them come out alive from this fight.
During the battle Link is suddenly matching Ganondorf and not being curbstomped anymore, also you got Ganondorf actively attacking Zelda he lands in front of her but instead of outright killing her he suddenly SHEATH HIS SWORD and takes the time to back hand her in the face.
The Triforce is obviously influencing the outcome of this like just like the king desired.
After saying that line, a golden light literally powers terrako up. he gets a vision of the scene that literally just happened a moment ago (literally several miles away from the castle) and he proceededs to travel back in time.
How would he know about what's happening and what Zelda said if not for the TF giving him a vision/memory.
It would be ridiculous to assume he just "felt" like jumping through time, when context is given us in the opening scene.
Him showing blue sheikah symbols is literally irrelevant to this discussion, because in the entire game of BOTW and Age of Calamity terrako from the BOTW timeline is the only one that has actively shown any Time manipulation powers.
There's literally no mention of other sheikah techs with powers on that kind of scale.
Especially when it's hammered into our heads that Sheikah tech have clear limitations (like being unable to copy/recreate the master sword and all its abilities.)
"The other Terrako controlled by malice does show time powers, Astor specifically uses him to see visions of the great calamity from the original timeline."
I'm sorry but are you serious my guy? That terrako is only able to show visions from the future because he was infected by the Malice that travel within Terrako's portal.
And we know that ganon's malice is a conscious an extansion of his will.
He literally imprints pieces of himself (infect them) via malice.
Seeing flashes and small visions of the future is literally not enough to prove he actually have time manipulation. especially when evil Terrako is never shown to actively use his so called "time travel" abilities.
Its literally some basic memory manipulation (clairvoyance?)
Unlike BOTW Terrako who literally summons on screen the next generation of champions and make them appear in front of their predecessors with pin point accuracy and timing.
Showing visions of the future does not equal having time manip on that scale.
Especially when you don't even show actual time travel powers throughout whole game.
Terrako is heavily stated to be a unique guardian.
Dust_Collector
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And this means what exactly? What does any of this mean besides that there's time travel going on? I don't see what this has to do with any ratings for any character.
Ok so other Sheikah tech not having time travel someone means a more unique model can't have time travel? If it shows that his time based powers use the same blue energy and symbols as other Sheikah tech, than why should we not assume that the time travel powers are a result of said tech? The Sheikah slate has powers like stopping time or creating bombs that other sheikah tech doesn't do, some sheikah tech allows for teleportation while others don't, not every piece of their tech get a uniform set of abilities that they can all do, there's clearly Sheikah tech that has unique abilities from other pieces of their tech.
Also the tech having limitations means what exactly? Is there a statement that one of those limitations is time travel? Being unable to copy/recreate the Master Sword and it's abilities doesn't mean much since one of it's abilities isn't the power open portals that allow time travel on a whim, closest the Master Sword gets to that is needing a special pedestal to do anything like that. Zelda/the Triforce awakening Terrako yeah sure, that's explicitly happens, but also granting him time travel abilities that just so happens to use Shiekah energy? I don't buy it.
I'm still not sure what any of this has to do with the series ratings. You talking about people being empowered / fighting Triforce empowered beings was fine and dandy, but I'm not sure what all the time travel stuff has to do with anything besides a little robot having time travel abilities.
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timeline creation is something i think we should get mod support in, preferably someone who is an expert at our current standards for tier 2
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Wow! A lot of feats were debunked.
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Yeah the timeline feat looking into it I don't see that being an AP feat, that sounds like the OoT situation where Link time travelling caused a split in the timeline, by that logic Trunks in DBZ is Low 2-C for doing the same thing.
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don't give them ideas
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The Malladus feat, considering how he said he was gonna destroy the world with little time, I think could be used for a potential life wiping feat for the series. Not sure about his pocket dimension feat though, will have to wait for others to give their inputs on that.
@ArmorchompyImplying that this out of nowhere feat would get anywhere.
@Armorchompy
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Malladus' feat is probably better with a possibly, technically a 6-C character can destroy the world in a short amount of time if they're fast enough
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@Armorchompy damn you couldn't even give Spirit tracks High 6-A? After its numerous years of being ridiculed for having the dumbest Link title ever?
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but yeah i've noticed i'm being pretty harsh, hopefully that doesn't lead to people thinking i'm biased against zelda or anything, i promise i actually really like the games, most of them at least
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