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Zatanna vs Miraak
- Thread starter DTG499
- Start date
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Miraak is far more intelligent and has apocrypha to his advantage,considering he has spen millenia on apocrypha,reading and searching through infinite knowledge
They are both masters in magic. They are pretty even in that catagory. But Miraak has the Thu'um,which can turn the battle in his way. The Thu'um/Shouts are very diversed,like the shout that resurrects the dead to do your biding,fire breath,unrelenting force,bend will etc. Miraak knows pretty much all of them,even a spell that kills dragons immediately and can also absorb dragon souls to heal himself.
Zatanna is no joke,but Miraak takes this by variety,intelligence and also more hax
They are both masters in magic. They are pretty even in that catagory. But Miraak has the Thu'um,which can turn the battle in his way. The Thu'um/Shouts are very diversed,like the shout that resurrects the dead to do your biding,fire breath,unrelenting force,bend will etc. Miraak knows pretty much all of them,even a spell that kills dragons immediately and can also absorb dragon souls to heal himself.
Zatanna is no joke,but Miraak takes this by variety,intelligence and also more hax
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Miraak FRA
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Miraak would probably be confused. But he can go through it...
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Zatanna's profile looks vastly out of date. Ignoring that; if she scales to literally any one of note in DC when it comes to hax she does literally anything and Miraak instantly dies.
But since her profile is so barebones I'm calling this a mismatch as you might as well thrown Miraak against a blank page with how vague and just bad Zatanna's profile looks. Either Zatanna scales to someone like Martian Manhunter and Miraak explodes from hax or Miraak says leave and Zatanna goes to fix his temple.
But since her profile is so barebones I'm calling this a mismatch as you might as well thrown Miraak against a blank page with how vague and just bad Zatanna's profile looks. Either Zatanna scales to someone like Martian Manhunter and Miraak explodes from hax or Miraak says leave and Zatanna goes to fix his temple.
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I said this was a mismatch because her profile is unusable not that this leans in her favor. It only leans in her favor if she scales to people like Martian Manhunter (Post-Crisis), but I have no clue if she does or not: if she does she stomps, if not Miraak stomps. Miraak only mind haxed an island while MM mindhaxed a planet, so if Zatanna even barely scales to MM she wins (I know she doesn't directly scale to MM, but even if she was a hundred times worse that's still vastly better than Miraak).
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Mind haxing a low 2-C means literally nothing and I believe the new dimension tier revision shot higher d hax in the foot (ignoring how bend will doesn't work on the only low 2-C dragon you find in the game). Considering the Dovahkiin has lost multiple matches because people had mind hax over a couple thousand; I don't see Miraak being higher than that.
Also if it truly is like that then not only do I need to remake some matches but that just makes this a definite stomp.
Also if it truly is like that then not only do I need to remake some matches but that just makes this a definite stomp.
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- Thread starter
- #14
I thought that's how it's always been. If you can use mind hax on the entire planet's population that just means you have planetary range mind hax not planetary potency. I don't think it's a stomp because Miraak doesn't have resistance against her time-space manipulationKeeweed said:
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I said if she did. I'm not sure, but her profile is incredibly vague so I'm just saying that if she does scale to MM she stomps. Also no mind haxing an entire planet is potency and range. It's only a range feat if you do it person by person, but Martian Manhunter did it all at once.
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That's not how that works at all. You can't get ap from mind hax and mind hax doesn't scale to ap. If you mind hax five people you have better mind hax than someone that can mind hax 2 people no matter what those people's ap is. It used to matter what dimension they were but dimensional revision shot that in the foot.
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- Thread starter
- #19
Ok so by what you are saying if character A is a 2-A and he's able to mind hax 5 other 2-A guys, character B is a low 7-C and he is able to mind hax 10 other low 7-C guys. So character B would be able to beat character A in mind hax just because he is shown to affect a greater number of people? That is nonsense.
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If that 2-A is 3D physically then yes the low 7-C will mind hax them. Ap doesn't matter and I don't think the dimensions matter either anymore (also they have to resist mind hax, just using mind hax doesn't grant them resistances, but both Zatanna and Miraak resist so just want to point that other for the analogy).
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Yes Miraak resist bend will but bend will at best mind haxed a thousand people (and that's being generous considering the island he mind haxed) vs MM who mind haxed the entire planet. Granted I'm not sure if Zatanna is anywhere close to that because her profile is terrible but if she is close to that Miraak gets mind haxed.
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Here's the thing about the bend will shout, you are not able to mind control a person with the first word of the shout because people in skyrim have solid mind manipulation resistance. The second word of the shout lets you mind control them. Your potency doesn't increase quantitatively (you are still only able to affect one thing at a time even with all three words) it increases qualitatively. Mind hax are dependent on the quality they have, not whether it can affect a large amount of people who have low or no resistance to it.
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Well since I really quickly checked this again. That's a weakness of bend will, not that everyone has mind control resistance (if it's not a gameplay mechanic that you fail to mind hax random people when Miraak mind haxed thousands with that same shout). Also even if they did mind control is determined by quantity and/or quality. When I wake up tomorrow I'll either go get scans or get someone to explain it better than I can because the amount of people you can mind hax matters.
Also now I'm going to bed I just knew there was going to be a new comment to respond to and that I'll probably need to before I go to sleep.
Also now I'm going to bed I just knew there was going to be a new comment to respond to and that I'll probably need to before I go to sleep.
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Babidi from dbz was able to mind control High 4-C dabura but was unable to mind control the 4-B vegeta, so vegeta has High 4-C mind hax resistance, another case of quality. So again, mind haxing 7.5 billion 10-Bs with 0 mind hax resisence does not make your mind hax planet level, no matter how you spin it quality or quantity. If he mind haxed 300 nonillion 10-Bs then yes I can see how that would be an arguement.
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DTG499 is wrong, tier means nothing when measuring the scale of Durability Negation.
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It only matters when you're talking about higher dimensional tiering.
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I should probably point out that this version of Zee did battle with a character who held control over the very fabric of the universe and whose mere will became reality.
And she was winning.
And she was winning.
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"whose mere will became reality"
That's literally how all Elder Scrolls reality works
Miraak's profile: "Magic brings changes into reality by accordance of the will of the user. The Thu'um allows one to add their voice to the underlying song of creation and alter it"
And people like the Jills repair universe's space and time after they get messed up from dragon breaks; however Miraak never fought them directly and just curpstomped The Dovahkii (who is on par with Alduin, who can kill 22 Jills in a single attack) so I could go ask Matt or Ultima (if neither are busy) to see if Jills could reality warp Miraak to death.
And if you meant that as ap Miraak curpstomps someone 22 times baseline.
Granted literally none of that matters if Zatanna has even half decent Mind Manipulation, but I'm just personally curious on if Miraak can be reality warped to death that easily since people like the Jills are inferior to him; but he never fought them directly.
That's literally how all Elder Scrolls reality works
Miraak's profile: "Magic brings changes into reality by accordance of the will of the user. The Thu'um allows one to add their voice to the underlying song of creation and alter it"
And people like the Jills repair universe's space and time after they get messed up from dragon breaks; however Miraak never fought them directly and just curpstomped The Dovahkii (who is on par with Alduin, who can kill 22 Jills in a single attack) so I could go ask Matt or Ultima (if neither are busy) to see if Jills could reality warp Miraak to death.
And if you meant that as ap Miraak curpstomps someone 22 times baseline.
Granted literally none of that matters if Zatanna has even half decent Mind Manipulation, but I'm just personally curious on if Miraak can be reality warped to death that easily since people like the Jills are inferior to him; but he never fought them directly.
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Well,Miraak can Control his own sanity and he can also resist Bend Will,which basically controls the enemy
I know that Bend Will doesnt work on everybody,but it works even on the strongest dragons that exist
But lets talk about a shout that i think Miraak knows simply because he spent millenia on apocrypha reading through infinite knowledge,Soul Tear. A spell that literally rips the soul out of someone's body
Im using this because it targets the soul,but somehow it doesnt ignore durability. Zatanna would need to be very tired to get her soul ripped out...hmm...maybe it can or cannot work,who knows
But,ill tell you something. The battle takes place in apocrypha,so her space-time manipulation,reality manipulation and time manipulation won't work because that IS Hermaeus Mora's realm. I bet if she tries tô use reality manipulation on apocrypha ,that she is gonna get insta-killed by Mora
So in this situation,no,Miraak cant be reality warped to death
I know that Bend Will doesnt work on everybody,but it works even on the strongest dragons that exist
But lets talk about a shout that i think Miraak knows simply because he spent millenia on apocrypha reading through infinite knowledge,Soul Tear. A spell that literally rips the soul out of someone's body
Im using this because it targets the soul,but somehow it doesnt ignore durability. Zatanna would need to be very tired to get her soul ripped out...hmm...maybe it can or cannot work,who knows
But,ill tell you something. The battle takes place in apocrypha,so her space-time manipulation,reality manipulation and time manipulation won't work because that IS Hermaeus Mora's realm. I bet if she tries tô use reality manipulation on apocrypha ,that she is gonna get insta-killed by Mora
So in this situation,no,Miraak cant be reality warped to death
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Last I checked mind manipulation resistance doesn't protect you from type 3 madness manipulation, and even if it did we run back into the same problem as before. Either she is anywhere within the same ball park as Martian Manhunter and mind haxs or she isn't and gets mind haxed herself. That also ignores that she may one shot with reality warping or it could completely fail if Miraak scales Jills, she may also one shot with the ap advantage since she scales to a inexperienced spectre or she may not since inexperienced could mean literally anything when it comes to DC. This match is the definition of a mismatch as it relies on so many things that both profiles are incredibly vague about.
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Pretty much I'm trying to say can this match please die and be forgotten about or closed as both Miraak and Zatanna's profiles suck.
I've already made clean up threads on the Elder Scrolls and was told they aren't going to go anywhere until Matt and Ultima gain a lot of free time, and DC was already going through a profile clean up so Zatanna's profile isn't going to be fixed in a long time so this fight isn't going to matter.
I've already made clean up threads on the Elder Scrolls and was told they aren't going to go anywhere until Matt and Ultima gain a lot of free time, and DC was already going through a profile clean up so Zatanna's profile isn't going to be fixed in a long time so this fight isn't going to matter.
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- Thread starter
- #40
Is it type 3? I thought it was type 2, can we get someone to confirm. Did Martian manhunter mind hax anyone with notably high mind hax resistance in that feat? Dragons can resist every form of mind manipulation in the game except for bend wind, so that's 5+ levels of mind resistance over the 0 that regular humans have. She only scales to spectre from the 2-C respect so it doesn't matter since they are both low 2-C. I was waiting for more people to get involved so they can bring information to the table that is not on the profiles.
