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Yukari Yakumo vs Ganondorf

I am going to agree with Saikou's reasoning and give this round to Yukari, though I'll have to read over those arguments just to be sure, but for now, Yukari.
 
Boundary Manipulation is a bit similar and different to Reality Warping and if that was the case it would be unmatched then. The only thing I see on his Triforce of Power on his wiki is minor reality warping. That doesn't really mesh well with actual Reality Warping.

Then again I shouldn't be debating at midnight.
 
mid-day for me though, and I still agree with your point. I don't think dissolving the boundary between life and death, or building a brane world would count as minor RW.
 
I don't know how much ganon can do as I see him only in screw attack youtube and he don't look so powerful or have reality manipulation

even he have reality manipulation by triforce, Yukari's boundary's manipulation still have upper hand

in my option boundary manipulation is 1 step above(if use correctly user can cross boundary to tier0 for example) or same as reality manipulation user just need to use their brain to access to anything they want And we must know that some boundary is above reality itself that is why boundary manipulation look above reality manipulation

if Yukari can step in tier0 by cross boundary she absolutely win

or if yukari can swap triforce power's boundary from power to nopower she win

or if she swap ganon's boundary existant to non existant she win

or If she cross boundary from defeatable to undefeatable the she will win no matter what happen
 
Calm down! We could still salvage this thread if we could explain to him calmly.

Andykhang said:
She's used to deal with intangiable opponent though, so I guess she could deal with that.

And yeah, that would allow her to have all manipulation. Which is why I advise you to just mostly stick with her known application, at that is a NLF, steamy 50+ thread can of worm that you just opened.

Edit: The reason: 1. The profile, and even her said that she could manipulate any border, and could create or destroy one. But there's too much application for that that she end up having too few example for her word.

2. And she clearly have limit to that too. But the fact of the limit have more to do with her nature than the ability itself making it vague and superficial (And I can't seem to find evident about her being unable to manipulate Moriya shrine, like a certain someone said)
Click to expand...
At least that's my explanation. Like I said above, there would be a flame war if you said that. Already someone get triggered.
 
The problem with Yukari is that her powers are too vague, it is possible for her to one-shot Ganondorf or not, it depends really on how powerful she is and if she knows how to use the boundary manipulation perfectly she can become Omnipotent and even tough she doesn't outright becomes Omnipotent she can still control the boundary of Ganondorf existing or not.
 
when did ganondorf showcase gap manipulation? Just curious because I dont remember it. Not voting yet.
 
^ alright then. Seems like Yukari's powers' limits are not well defined while ganondorf has a lot of versability and a lower tier boundary thingy. Voting for him if NLF and speculation arent valid for her.
 
This might have been answered somewhere and I just didn't see it, but is Yukari allowed to use her Shikigami Ran and Chen? Since they are tied to Yukari so closely, I feel that Yukari should at least be able to use spells that require the Shikigami to cast. Chen might not be able to do much to change the battle, but Ran may have a significant influence with her magic.
 
It's a personal fight, so none of them I guess? And beside Ran, in her current state, wouldn't be helping her much at all.
 
Even tough their powers are not well defined, she is very scary and she is way smarter than Ganondorf, from all i know she might pull a 100 stage plan to defeat him if she was her usual self, and she doesn't have a real physcial weakness, in my opininion Yukari would win this even tough the extent of her power is Debatable mostly because her greatest weakness is the fact she doesn't take fights seriously and is often too lazy, but since this is a bloodlusted fight i don't know if Ganondorf would be able to win a real fight against Yukari because she is taking the fight seriously and another thing that might end up with Yukari winning is the fact that both of them is at their strongest, also i don't think Minor reality warping can deal with boundary manipulations since he never manipulated boundaries because if he could Link couldn't do shit against him because he would just get erased from existence and i don't think that ever happened, so even tough Ganondorf is overall physically stronger than Yukari at their peak if there is no way for him to counter Boundary Manipulation he's pretty much dead.
 
Also Reality Warping and boundary manipulation are two diferent powers they are similar but they are not the same thing, Ganon was able to open a gap to send Phantom ganon to another dimension because he basically did the same thing that Yukari does to open gaps, but Yukari's power doesn't just open gaps, everything is defined by a boundary this power is like a double edged sword to be honest because if the person tried to manipulate stuff randomly they would just erase their own existence, make paradoxes and ect, but the fact that Yukari is over 1500 years old and didn't wipe herself from existence it could mean she could use this power in a efficient manner, meaning if Ganon doesn't have protection against boundary manipulation he's pretty dead.
 
Ran and Chen are her weapons and shikigamis though so it doesn't seem like they should be off the list. Their her tools. And switching my vote to Yukari. Unless I already did. *shrugs*
 
That's true.. Well Apparently Yukari has even more advantages than Ganon because if i am not mistaken Ran can use Yukari's powers too since she is her Shikigami, but i'm not sure about that i could be wrong but i do remember someone saying that Ran can use Yukari's power on a youtube video.
 
Nah, that's just a misinterpreptation of what Yukari is saying: "By following my will, Ran can obtain power equal to my level. Therefore, if she properly follows my orders, it would be impossible for her to lose. If she acts on her own, her power will be weakened to a degree that could not compare in the least. Fighting in that state would be nothing more than foolishness." Equal to her level =/= using her ability.

https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Bohemian_Archive_in_Japanese_Red/Yukari

Edit: here's another, just for comparision: "Naturally; equations themselves are shikigami. Just as equations that neither diverge nor converge produce an infinite number of solid objects, so do the equations Lady Yukari uses to increase my power indefinitely. I therefore act as the equations command."

https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Bohemian_Archive_in_Japanese_Red/Ra
 
If these Shikigami aren't naturally created by her (as in she can create a Ran casually and instantly if need be) and is alive then that is definitely not allowed. Don't know what made people think that, but that's is an obvious case of outside help.
 
I see, that makes more sense now, but Yukari still wins for reasons i stated above, if you see on her profile she lost to two people who can negate her powers, if ganon doesn't have anything like that he's dead, but i admit if he had something to negate her powers, she was going to be stomped.
 
Well, to be fair, Medaka doesn't negate Yukari's powers. She just has abilities that can make them all moot. Ganon has abilities that can make a handful of her potent abilities moot.

Also, Saikou. An admin (I forgot whom) told me that the description of bloodlust you were using was incorrect, not because I asked them, but because they corrected me. It really is that they just want to see blood from their opponent, and I feel like that would be Yukari's undoing.
 
What abilities exactly? Reality warping won't work because they can't counter Boundary manipulation she also beat someone with stronger Reality warping than Ganon on another thread.
 
If you're talking about vs Griffith, several admins want to remove that one due to false information. Regardless, I'm talking about several things in her boundary NLF that Ganondorf already lolnoped, like BFR, 2D manipulation (which after looking at her powers, she's never used it to turn someone into 2-D), and type 2 immortality to offset screwing with his organs. Bottom line is, Ganon gets up close, and he will get up close, she's done for, especially considering in Keleekai combat, Ganon trumps her in everything, including experience.
 
The real cal howard said:
If you're talking about vs Griffith, several admins want to remove that one due to false information. Regardless, I'm talking about several things in her boundary NLF that Ganondorf already lolnoped, like BFR, 2D manipulation (which after looking at her powers, she's never used it to turn someone into 2-D), and type 2 immortality to offset screwing with his organs. Bottom line is, Ganon gets up close, and he will get up close, she's done for, especially considering in Keleekai combat, Ganon trumps her in everything, including experience.
Click to expand...
1. She's already BFR a ton of people, that's in her title.

2. Why do you think a spell card is a best representation of her power?

3. And you still didn't explained, like I pointed many time, how he gonna stop her from Gate-Of-Babyloning a ton of holy weapon, or personally connect him to heaven and fried him apart?
 
Firstly, As if she would know that. Secondly, Everyone said that her abilities is vague. If it hasn't been shown, then it cannot be assumed. Ever. Main rule of this site is shown statistics.
 
I don't know... The typical sort of dealing with demonic looking enemies would be to use holy attacks. That said I agree on that statistics are important, but her boundary manipulation has expressed the sufficient capabilities to do that.
 
Problem is, Ganondorf doesn't look like a demon. He looks like a person with a darker complexion. Now I don't know about you, but I'd be offended if someone assumed I was a demon for that.

Also, you mind telling me what she has done with her boundary manipulation? Honest to goodness question with no ill intent. Her profile doesn't have nearly the uses that have garnered her wins (except for Kaguya), so I was asking the experts.
 
Whoops my bad on that. I don't know but the long nose is kinda a.... well it's not Voldemort but still supernaturalesque. On one hand you also know that Yukari is very experienced since she is a wise and only 17 years old not 1200 year old maiden.

Alright, let me check some stuff.

After 30 minutes or so, I got this amount, I think


For a few things, Yukari's haxx is indeed vague. But that's coming from Touhou. It's our job to figure out what's legit or not. In any case she is stated to be able to interact with boundaries and can essentially perform dreamwalking by manipulating boundaries between dream and reality. That already speaks of how far her extent of her abilities are.


She can combine night and day at the same time somehow, which may actually be a pretty powerful thing considering uniting moonlight and daylight is not so easily overlooked.


In universe, there is no counter for it. But that's irrelevant if you only assume that. There are many beings in Gensokyo that have a plethora of powers. Sakuya's temporal prowess that allows her to interact with time, space, and paradoxes, Keine's ability to alter history, Remilia's fate (although it seems to be more of a precognition sort of thing), Flandre's ability to destroy anything, Yuyuko's ability to immediately kill someone, all of this are noted by Akyuu who keeps a track of all the information in Gensokyo, well mostly. But out of all the powers in Gensokyo it's the one that she labels the most fearsome and has no counters.


Even in in game profiles and manuals this ability is said to be feared. With this power alone she can destroy Gensokyo if she chooses to. Oh and she created Gensokyo too. But regardless, it says that if she doesn't participate in a danmaku fight, she will win. That's a big boast but it basically shows how her power isn't to be taken lightly.


She can also create new boundaries and delete other boundaries to negate an existence. That's… a bit vague but if you think about it it's pretty potent. This might be something more related to conceptual effects considering how she can apparently create a perpetual machine and use an infinite speed attack. The latter is less believable and the former would've been more so since she says the nuclear power of Okuu would be stronger than this…. However… recent comparisons states that Okuu might be much much stronger than she seems and might be Star level so that's just showing how Yukari's perpetual machine may just be lesser than star level in efficiency. Weird phrasing, I know, but either way, Yukari can interact with a lot of boundaries. Motion, Stillness, Darkness, Light, Dreams, Reality, Fantasy, Life, Death, Human, Youkai, 2D, 3D (which by the way is vague but is no reason to think that she can't do it considering her scope of power but let's leave it as that for now), Wave and Particle, Form and Emptiness, basically a lot of conceptual stuff she can interact with. I would explain more on these and the possibilities but studying for a midterm r

On the other hand she seems to have a slight bit of precognition and very useful information gathering system. Former might be another extension but this leads to another ability. Since she likes to perform spiriting away so much, there is a possibility that she can travel time. Since one of the similar people around, time travelled on a spiriting away. So, time travel is another vague but potential ability for her. I should probably make a thread about that soon.
 
Neither would affect his higher durability, considering his organs shouldn't be thousands of times weaker than him, and he has type 2 immortality, so that wouldn't incapacitate him anyway.
 
Both, yeah. But it has been agreed on that it shouldn't be tons upon tons of times weaker. Found that out in Luke vs Goku.
 
Huh. Forgot about that matchup. Fair enough. And considering Ganondorf's body... although I still think it would be annoying for him and could impede him enough to slow down his movement, and that could give the advantage of keep away to Yukari.
 
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