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No Limits Fallacy, Prove she can delete something several infinities stronger than her entire verse.
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Yukari vs Ahzek the redo
- Thread starter FateAlbane
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If the warp is an existing thing she can delete it,it's not a fallacy,it's how they created the character.
"Other than that, since there is a boundary on the water surface so to speak, as there is definitely a distinction between water and atmosphere, and since there is the boundary called the horizon that separates the sky from the earth, as was said, she can freely manipulate the boundary of all existent things at will. "
There is no implicated limitation of her manipulation limits,the only limit that is been sorta clear is her phyisical strenght that was made clear during one of the incidents. But so far that's what is known. As long as it exists in any reality she can manipulate it or delete it,only her "rival" can manipulate and destroy things that doesn't exist (what? but yeah it's like that).
"Other than that, since there is a boundary on the water surface so to speak, as there is definitely a distinction between water and atmosphere, and since there is the boundary called the horizon that separates the sky from the earth, as was said, she can freely manipulate the boundary of all existent things at will. "
There is no implicated limitation of her manipulation limits,the only limit that is been sorta clear is her phyisical strenght that was made clear during one of the incidents. But so far that's what is known. As long as it exists in any reality she can manipulate it or delete it,only her "rival" can manipulate and destroy things that doesn't exist (what? but yeah it's like that).
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Again, No Limits Fallacy. Prove she can effect a 1-A realm.
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This is NLF at its finest though.
Feats >>>>> Author intent. Even going by the highest tierings of Touhou possible (Higher Dimensional Touhou) it would still be not enough featwise to erase the entire Warp, that possess so many higher dimensions that the mortal language cant even count it.
Just because there is no implication of a limit dosnt mean that it dosnt have a limit. Shes not some kind of omnipotent god figure, shes not even the god tier of the verse.
Feats >>>>> Author intent. Even going by the highest tierings of Touhou possible (Higher Dimensional Touhou) it would still be not enough featwise to erase the entire Warp, that possess so many higher dimensions that the mortal language cant even count it.
Just because there is no implication of a limit dosnt mean that it dosnt have a limit. Shes not some kind of omnipotent god figure, shes not even the god tier of the verse.
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16. No Limits Fallacy (NLF)
This is when someone states that because something has not demonstrated any limits (or only certain limits) then it has none (or only the ones demonstrated).
This is when someone states that because something has not demonstrated any limits (or only certain limits) then it has none (or only the ones demonstrated).
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It's written right there. She can affect anything she wants at will. If you are not willing to read or listen i do not bother to answer again. Sorry.
I'll only say that i'm 100% sure that if this was any of the other characters or another chaos character ,there would be no fallacy,no limits. I would be right.
But since apparently when something is disliked and not biased,even a fact that is canon and literally written in any of the touhou databases is denied then it proves my point. She can affect the 1-A realm just by the fact it exists,if it was only a conceptual being and not existing i would argue that she can't do anything about it. But since it exists she can manipulate and destroy it. Period. It doesn't matter how powerful it is,how big it is.
It's the author's fault for making her limitless,"so just because it's limitless we don't count it because it harms our favorite characters and we don't want our favorite characters to lose."
I'll only say that i'm 100% sure that if this was any of the other characters or another chaos character ,there would be no fallacy,no limits. I would be right.
But since apparently when something is disliked and not biased,even a fact that is canon and literally written in any of the touhou databases is denied then it proves my point. She can affect the 1-A realm just by the fact it exists,if it was only a conceptual being and not existing i would argue that she can't do anything about it. But since it exists she can manipulate and destroy it. Period. It doesn't matter how powerful it is,how big it is.
It's the author's fault for making her limitless,"so just because it's limitless we don't count it because it harms our favorite characters and we don't want our favorite characters to lose."
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So basically, you use a statement of her claiming that she can affect EVERYTHING that exist to proof that she can erase a realm far beyond reality by its sheer size and nature.
With absolutly no proofs or feats, while ignoring the no limit fallacy.
And then accuse us of bias. A really weird kind of bias where apperently only Ahzek would make it NLF. You do realise that every other Chaos God would stomp the living crap out of Yukari right?
With absolutly no proofs or feats, while ignoring the no limit fallacy.
And then accuse us of bias. A really weird kind of bias where apperently only Ahzek would make it NLF. You do realise that every other Chaos God would stomp the living crap out of Yukari right?
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Give feats of her affecting something that's 1-A or leave.
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With speed unequal as well considering that it's apparently fair unequalUdlmaster said:
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You are the one who should leave.
If you want to do a vs then do it right and seriously and don't change feats in favor to one side (bias) and decide what power is right and wrong if ZUN created her that way it should stay that way. If you want to nerf her then at least mention that her power has been decreased or removed for balancing issues.
Instead what i see is a costant looking down and mock Not even god level" "trash" and always exaggerating saying basically she is so low it's not funny "it's one billion infinite times stronger.
I honestly think you have no clue of what you saying,you just like to see your favorite win,that's all. And this is just further proof but since you are so stubborn on insisting i'll try to give you another "pat" on the back to at least try to convince that you are wrong.
When i'll use " " means it's from a source.
1)Let's assume she can't erase the warp (which can be debated given on how big and strong the warp is) she can still pull him out of it since her space bounding can grab and teleport anyone everywhere.
"The most common application of Yukari's boundary manipulation abilities is opening "gaps" (ÒüÖÒüìÒü¥ sukima) which act as portals between two places,ÒÇÇwhere she's able to hold, sit on or emerge from such gaps. By manipulating borders in space and creating a chasm, she is able to link together separate places. According to this, she's able to show up in unexpected places from time to time, but the aforementioned suspiciousness has been refined. Although this gap is a kind of sub-space, within Yukari's gap, one can see a lot of eyes. These eyes are a manifestation of what one can say is the image of "how desires are swirling around" that Yukari sees in the outside the world. The description of Yukari's Magic Eye "Laplace's Demon" spell card implies that Yukari can see using the eyes, as well. Also, although sign posts and other flotsam also drift about, these things also come from Yukari's image of "things that have come to be of no use in the outside world".
2)Let's assume she can erase the warp as i already said.
2a - "Ultimately, since the existence of anything consists of having a boundary, for anything to lose its boundary is a very big thing, as it would then not be able to have its own individual existence. As the rules that govern boundaries would govern this, it is said that to make a new boundary is to create a new existence, and to destroy a boundary is to negate an existence"
2b - "Other than that, since there is a boundary on the water surface so to speak, as there is definitely a distinction between water and atmosphere, and since there is the boundary called the horizon that separates the sky from the earth, as was said, she can freely manipulate the boundary of all existent things at will. "
2c - "With the word "boundary" in its name, Yukari is capable of pretty much anything put under the influence of this ability. In her monologue during A Beautiful Flower Blooming Violet Every Sixty Years, she explains that this power allows her to control the boundaries "between any and all things", like Gensokyo and the outside world, the worlds of the living and the dead, humans and youkai, and even the day and the night."
2d - "It's shown that Yukari can also control the boundaries and bend them to her will as seen in Immaterial and Missing power when she adjusted the sky by manipulating the border between the daylight and moonlight to unite the day and the night. According to Marisa Kirisame, Yukari can even control the boundary between "a danmaku for play and a danmaku for battle". (Last sentence is almost a 4th wall breaker)
3)Ahzek can't simply defeat her in any way since:
3a- "Yukari states in her own win quotes in Immaterial and Missing power that she has no weaknesses, and even shooting, cutting, stabbing, hitting, or killing her is useless. In Perfect Memento in strick sense, her ability is yet again described as being "without weaknesses", and as one of the most dangerous that youkai are known to possess. Her Imperishable Night profile also states that "she easily has enough power to annihilate all of Gensokyo if she so desires", while the manual says that "the danger and potency of her ability is beyond imagination"."
3b- (Just trivia) In Japan (and many other countries) "purple" or "violet" had been thought as a noble color, and used occasionally as a color for high ranks. In fact, ZUN mentioned in some of his interviews, that he was aware of this fact and uses the color on certain character designs to show levels of power and nobility, thus in this sense using both "violet" as her name and in dress shows that Yukari was designed to be powerful and high ranking.
If you want to do a vs then do it right and seriously and don't change feats in favor to one side (bias) and decide what power is right and wrong if ZUN created her that way it should stay that way. If you want to nerf her then at least mention that her power has been decreased or removed for balancing issues.
Instead what i see is a costant looking down and mock Not even god level" "trash" and always exaggerating saying basically she is so low it's not funny "it's one billion infinite times stronger.
I honestly think you have no clue of what you saying,you just like to see your favorite win,that's all. And this is just further proof but since you are so stubborn on insisting i'll try to give you another "pat" on the back to at least try to convince that you are wrong.
When i'll use " " means it's from a source.
1)Let's assume she can't erase the warp (which can be debated given on how big and strong the warp is) she can still pull him out of it since her space bounding can grab and teleport anyone everywhere.
"The most common application of Yukari's boundary manipulation abilities is opening "gaps" (ÒüÖÒüìÒü¥ sukima) which act as portals between two places,ÒÇÇwhere she's able to hold, sit on or emerge from such gaps. By manipulating borders in space and creating a chasm, she is able to link together separate places. According to this, she's able to show up in unexpected places from time to time, but the aforementioned suspiciousness has been refined. Although this gap is a kind of sub-space, within Yukari's gap, one can see a lot of eyes. These eyes are a manifestation of what one can say is the image of "how desires are swirling around" that Yukari sees in the outside the world. The description of Yukari's Magic Eye "Laplace's Demon" spell card implies that Yukari can see using the eyes, as well. Also, although sign posts and other flotsam also drift about, these things also come from Yukari's image of "things that have come to be of no use in the outside world".
2)Let's assume she can erase the warp as i already said.
2a - "Ultimately, since the existence of anything consists of having a boundary, for anything to lose its boundary is a very big thing, as it would then not be able to have its own individual existence. As the rules that govern boundaries would govern this, it is said that to make a new boundary is to create a new existence, and to destroy a boundary is to negate an existence"
2b - "Other than that, since there is a boundary on the water surface so to speak, as there is definitely a distinction between water and atmosphere, and since there is the boundary called the horizon that separates the sky from the earth, as was said, she can freely manipulate the boundary of all existent things at will. "
2c - "With the word "boundary" in its name, Yukari is capable of pretty much anything put under the influence of this ability. In her monologue during A Beautiful Flower Blooming Violet Every Sixty Years, she explains that this power allows her to control the boundaries "between any and all things", like Gensokyo and the outside world, the worlds of the living and the dead, humans and youkai, and even the day and the night."
2d - "It's shown that Yukari can also control the boundaries and bend them to her will as seen in Immaterial and Missing power when she adjusted the sky by manipulating the border between the daylight and moonlight to unite the day and the night. According to Marisa Kirisame, Yukari can even control the boundary between "a danmaku for play and a danmaku for battle". (Last sentence is almost a 4th wall breaker)
3)Ahzek can't simply defeat her in any way since:
3a- "Yukari states in her own win quotes in Immaterial and Missing power that she has no weaknesses, and even shooting, cutting, stabbing, hitting, or killing her is useless. In Perfect Memento in strick sense, her ability is yet again described as being "without weaknesses", and as one of the most dangerous that youkai are known to possess. Her Imperishable Night profile also states that "she easily has enough power to annihilate all of Gensokyo if she so desires", while the manual says that "the danger and potency of her ability is beyond imagination"."
3b- (Just trivia) In Japan (and many other countries) "purple" or "violet" had been thought as a noble color, and used occasionally as a color for high ranks. In fact, ZUN mentioned in some of his interviews, that he was aware of this fact and uses the color on certain character designs to show levels of power and nobility, thus in this sense using both "violet" as her name and in dress shows that Yukari was designed to be powerful and high ranking.
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Something tells me you also think Saitama can solo fiction.
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It's not my fault she is designed that way. They wrote she has no limits what can it be done about it? So you just say screw you ZUN and Yukari we are right,you are wrong? Also this is Yukari vs Ahzek not Yukari vs Khorne or Slaanesh. Because then i can easily say then let's make Toyohime vs Khorne then. Since Toyohime is far stronger than Yukari and she can manipulate everything literally everything even things that doesn't exist.First Witch said:
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Cool, give feats she can effect something that's 1-A or leave.
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16. No Limits Fallacy (NLF)
This is when someone states that because something has not demonstrated any limits (or only certain limits) then it has none (or only the ones demonstrated).
Example: "Itachi said that no one without a Mangekyou Sharingan can defeat him. Therefore he can beat all of DC, Marvel, DBZ, and Tenchi Muyo."
The person in this argument holds Itachi's statement to be absolute truth, ignoring the possibility that Itachi has no knowledge of certain enemies, or never expected to encounter them. The same can be said of Kishimoto: He never intended for his characters to be pitted in battle against characters from other works of fiction, so therefore statements like this do not hold true to other works of fiction necessarily. Furthermore, there is the possibility that in - universe, Itachi was lying, bluffing, misinformed, or deluded.
This is when someone states that because something has not demonstrated any limits (or only certain limits) then it has none (or only the ones demonstrated).
Example: "Itachi said that no one without a Mangekyou Sharingan can defeat him. Therefore he can beat all of DC, Marvel, DBZ, and Tenchi Muyo."
The person in this argument holds Itachi's statement to be absolute truth, ignoring the possibility that Itachi has no knowledge of certain enemies, or never expected to encounter them. The same can be said of Kishimoto: He never intended for his characters to be pitted in battle against characters from other works of fiction, so therefore statements like this do not hold true to other works of fiction necessarily. Furthermore, there is the possibility that in - universe, Itachi was lying, bluffing, misinformed, or deluded.
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Okay you are trolling. I literally wrote it. I'm leaving yea. No point on discussing.The Wright Way said:
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Kouohime'd get destroyed by the Chaos Gods too.
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@ChocoStellar Im not getting involved in this thread but make a content revision if you are not happy with the profile.
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>1-A Touhou in 2019
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Yes i could try i guess? But i'm so pissed off at these people right now,i don't really want to contribute in anything.Read this post said:
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Not me fault you don't understand No Limits Fallacy.ChocoStellar said:
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I literally said the opposite.Sadistic Sleuth said:>1-A Touhou in 2019
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Well too bad. If you can't prove 1-A Touhou because you're "too mad", it's not happening. And it's not relevent to this thread anyway.
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Sure all funny but look this apparently applies only to Yukari right? Ahzek definetly encountered Yukari powers before. Show feats that he can defeat Yukari or leave. She can't be killed,destroyed,stabbed. Anything. So he can't "One shot her" like i read above.The Wright Way said:
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Yukari's "unable to be killed" is a NLF too. She only has shown youkai-level of regen, which is something that Azhek can bypass.
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May i introduce you to a concept , that is vital when trying to gauge the power of a character? This in conjunction to the No Limit Fallacy explains why the stuff you say cant work.ChocoStellar said:
You: "Also this is Yukari vs Ahzek not Yukari vs Khorne or Slaanesh."
Also You:"I'll only say that i'm 100% sure that if this was any of the other characters or another chaos character ,there would be no fallacy,no limits. I would be right."
I simply explained that your accusation of bias is stupid because im not even a Warhammer fan.
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Regarding the matchup itself, what happened since last time that changed anything? Ahzek still precogs his death, then timestops and kills Yukari. Easy win, if not a stomp for him.
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He's a Solar System Buster against a Large Star level character. He's one-shotting her easily.
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I myself disagree with the ratings for touhou (though 1-A is overhyped) and the nonsensicle way the verse is treated and scaled in general, however this is completely unnecesarry. If you dont like the way they treat authors intent then make a revision. If you dont want to then dont comment at all. Can we close this before it gets out of hand? It seems concluded.
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It was completed years ago, it should've been closed already.
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