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Yujiro Hanma Downgrade
- Thread starter Skyggen
- Start date
- Status
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Well, it's by feats.
While I do agree it is incredibly weird, we must go by feats. And by feats, we haven't seen Pickle harm Yujiro or Baki with his Demon Back active, nor was it shown that he made Musashi be unrestricted.
By strict feats, we do know, however, that Kaku with Xiao Lee can hurt Yujiro and ignore his base form's blows.
Again, sorry for repeating myself, but while I do agree that Pickle (And imo, the likes of Yuichiro) should be above Kaku by how they are treated in the stry, we simply do not have the feats to affirm that.
While I do agree it is incredibly weird, we must go by feats. And by feats, we haven't seen Pickle harm Yujiro or Baki with his Demon Back active, nor was it shown that he made Musashi be unrestricted.
By strict feats, we do know, however, that Kaku with Xiao Lee can hurt Yujiro and ignore his base form's blows.
Again, sorry for repeating myself, but while I do agree that Pickle (And imo, the likes of Yuichiro) should be above Kaku by how they are treated in the stry, we simply do not have the feats to affirm that.
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Also kinda confused on where Oliva would lie on the scaling chart. He pretty much trounced Baki when they were fighting in the prison, but then Baki went Demon Back and "awoke" his Hanma blood and turned the tables.
But even then Oliva was able to withstand a bunch of blows from him (but was pushed back), and his hardened body technique straight up no sold hits from DB Baki and even manages to hurt him.
Musashi is another one that confuses me cause in almost every fight he was in, he took damage.
Against Shibukawa he was incapable of breaking out of his little handshake aiki thing and was basically paralyzed (even though he's shown that he can grapple with Pickle) and was hurt by his punches
Against Retsu he took notable damage from his blows
Same for his fight against Hanayama. He even admitted that his back was too hard for him to cut (even though he could slice through the skin and muscles of Yujiro, who's ridiculously stronger than Hanayama at this point), and his super punch nearly knocked him out.
Don't even get me started on his fight with Motobe
But it's also noted that he very rarely fights seriously, and if he's using a real sword instead of his imaginary aura swords, then he's not goon all out.
Ali Jr is another scaling headache
But even then Oliva was able to withstand a bunch of blows from him (but was pushed back), and his hardened body technique straight up no sold hits from DB Baki and even manages to hurt him.
Musashi is another one that confuses me cause in almost every fight he was in, he took damage.
Against Shibukawa he was incapable of breaking out of his little handshake aiki thing and was basically paralyzed (even though he's shown that he can grapple with Pickle) and was hurt by his punches
Against Retsu he took notable damage from his blows
Same for his fight against Hanayama. He even admitted that his back was too hard for him to cut (even though he could slice through the skin and muscles of Yujiro, who's ridiculously stronger than Hanayama at this point), and his super punch nearly knocked him out.
Don't even get me started on his fight with Motobe
But it's also noted that he very rarely fights seriously, and if he's using a real sword instead of his imaginary aura swords, then he's not goon all out.
Ali Jr is another scaling headache
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@BigDawgz
Oh no, Oliva isn't above Pickle. Pickle is pretty >>> Oliva. Even when Baki could overpower Oliva in brute strength, he couldn't do so to Pickle.
@PTSOX
I personally see it as Baki Demon's Back not being to its full potential in that specific occasion. I mean, base Yujiro was ridiculously stronger than Oliva, and later Baki with the Demon Back fought Demon Back Yujiro to a stalemate. I'd personally rank Oliva as "At least Large Building level, possible higher", for reasons I'll say later, when I make a Baki revision post.
Baki series tries to be "realistic" in some aspects, as in, even Baki can be hurt by bullets when he logically shouldn't, and the same applies to fights. Musashi is a pretty clear case of that, although I'd separate two keys for him: Restricted/Base (Whatever you guys want to call it), which should scale to people like Pickle and Xiao Lee Retsu, and Full Power/With the "Secret" Style, that should scale to Yujiro.
Plus, Aiki is a technique that is explicitly stated to ignore conventional force. The stronger the foe, the stronger is the redirection. Which is why Gouki could easily dislocate Oliva's hand.
Hanayama got stronger in Baki: Son of Ogre. It is a clear case of contradiction (Since in the beggining it was said that he didn't), but evidence points towards it. I mean, Hanayama managed to actually hold back Pickle for some moments through sheer strength and he did keep up with Miyamoto. And in any case, that is inconsistent.
Motobe is a weird case of being weak physically, but abnormally strong with weapons. I would personally rank him at "Large Building level physically, higher/City Block level with weapons".
Ali should be "Large Building level, possibly higher", imo. Despite losing to both a serious Doppo and serious Gouki, he did manage to beat them up when they weren't fully serious, and at his peak, Baki claimed that he could've KO'ed him with a single punch, although he was much slower than Baki.
Oh no, Oliva isn't above Pickle. Pickle is pretty >>> Oliva. Even when Baki could overpower Oliva in brute strength, he couldn't do so to Pickle.
@PTSOX
I personally see it as Baki Demon's Back not being to its full potential in that specific occasion. I mean, base Yujiro was ridiculously stronger than Oliva, and later Baki with the Demon Back fought Demon Back Yujiro to a stalemate. I'd personally rank Oliva as "At least Large Building level, possible higher", for reasons I'll say later, when I make a Baki revision post.
Baki series tries to be "realistic" in some aspects, as in, even Baki can be hurt by bullets when he logically shouldn't, and the same applies to fights. Musashi is a pretty clear case of that, although I'd separate two keys for him: Restricted/Base (Whatever you guys want to call it), which should scale to people like Pickle and Xiao Lee Retsu, and Full Power/With the "Secret" Style, that should scale to Yujiro.
Plus, Aiki is a technique that is explicitly stated to ignore conventional force. The stronger the foe, the stronger is the redirection. Which is why Gouki could easily dislocate Oliva's hand.
Hanayama got stronger in Baki: Son of Ogre. It is a clear case of contradiction (Since in the beggining it was said that he didn't), but evidence points towards it. I mean, Hanayama managed to actually hold back Pickle for some moments through sheer strength and he did keep up with Miyamoto. And in any case, that is inconsistent.
Motobe is a weird case of being weak physically, but abnormally strong with weapons. I would personally rank him at "Large Building level physically, higher/City Block level with weapons".
Ali should be "Large Building level, possibly higher", imo. Despite losing to both a serious Doppo and serious Gouki, he did manage to beat them up when they weren't fully serious, and at his peak, Baki claimed that he could've KO'ed him with a single punch, although he was much slower than Baki.
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Kaku Kaioh is below Pickle. When he saw.Pickle vs Orochi Katsumi, he said if he were in Katsumis place he would rather use his "ultimate technique" which is playing dead lol. He used that vs. Yujiro and according to his philosophy him "dying" means he wins.
Baki also couldn't imagine Pickles strength with his shadow boxing technique as well, when he can make giant pray mantises and Dinosaurs like a T rex which Pickle imagined Yujiro to be like.
Baki also couldn't imagine Pickles strength with his shadow boxing technique as well, when he can make giant pray mantises and Dinosaurs like a T rex which Pickle imagined Yujiro to be like.
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@Merchant
Xiao Lee has some big weaknesses that Pickle's method of attacking (Namely, tackling him down and biting) would exploit very greatly. WIthout Xiao Lee, Kaku is kind of... Weak, really. Its actually the entire concept of the character: Being really weak physically (At least when compared to other characters), but can do some very serious damage thanks to the mastery of martial arts.
I honestly think that is inconsistent. Miyamoto hurting Pickle with a headbutt, non-Demon Back Baki hurting him with his punches, plus how Yujiro is treated in-series... I don't know man, but I really don't think Pickle would scale directly from Yujiro.
Xiao Lee has some big weaknesses that Pickle's method of attacking (Namely, tackling him down and biting) would exploit very greatly. WIthout Xiao Lee, Kaku is kind of... Weak, really. Its actually the entire concept of the character: Being really weak physically (At least when compared to other characters), but can do some very serious damage thanks to the mastery of martial arts.
I honestly think that is inconsistent. Miyamoto hurting Pickle with a headbutt, non-Demon Back Baki hurting him with his punches, plus how Yujiro is treated in-series... I don't know man, but I really don't think Pickle would scale directly from Yujiro.
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Fair enough I suppose, though the reason I'm concerned with Ali Jr's scaling is because of how certain were presented/stated
Ali Jr won against Gouki in their first fight (he one shot him), but Gouki later revealed he wasn't serious, and in their second fight he beat Ali up relatively easy after getting serious (but Ali was still healing from the damage he received from his battle with Jack, where he took numerou serious blows)
In Ali's fight with Doppo, it starts off with Doppo being non-serious (Ali straight up busted his nose), but then it evolves to the point where Doppo says it's become a fight to the death, and he even takes his signature stance. But Ali still manages to dodge his attack from inches away (even Doppo was surprised), and proceeds to finish Doppo off with one punch. Doppo even compares the sensation from Ali's punch to when he was hit by Yujiro and Gouki. Later when they meet again, Doppo admits that Ali won that one and doesn't imply that he was holding back. Of course Doppo proceeds to destroy Ali's hands, but keep in mind that they were already damaged from when Gouki mangled them.
Ali straight up lost to Jack, cause Jack doesn't hold back, but he still managed to survive quite a few punches, and his hits did do some damage, but it was peanut damage at best, and he even earned a compliment from Jack, which is no easy feat. Ali arguably did better against Jack than Sikorsky did.
Ali also 2 shot two different kaio, who're supposedly the top tiers of the world of Chinese martial arts, but after reading the China vs USA/Japan tournament, I'm not sure if that means anything.
He also stomped some nameless Shaolin monk who trained under Retsu's master.
Ali Jr won against Gouki in their first fight (he one shot him), but Gouki later revealed he wasn't serious, and in their second fight he beat Ali up relatively easy after getting serious (but Ali was still healing from the damage he received from his battle with Jack, where he took numerou serious blows)
In Ali's fight with Doppo, it starts off with Doppo being non-serious (Ali straight up busted his nose), but then it evolves to the point where Doppo says it's become a fight to the death, and he even takes his signature stance. But Ali still manages to dodge his attack from inches away (even Doppo was surprised), and proceeds to finish Doppo off with one punch. Doppo even compares the sensation from Ali's punch to when he was hit by Yujiro and Gouki. Later when they meet again, Doppo admits that Ali won that one and doesn't imply that he was holding back. Of course Doppo proceeds to destroy Ali's hands, but keep in mind that they were already damaged from when Gouki mangled them.
Ali straight up lost to Jack, cause Jack doesn't hold back, but he still managed to survive quite a few punches, and his hits did do some damage, but it was peanut damage at best, and he even earned a compliment from Jack, which is no easy feat. Ali arguably did better against Jack than Sikorsky did.
Ali also 2 shot two different kaio, who're supposedly the top tiers of the world of Chinese martial arts, but after reading the China vs USA/Japan tournament, I'm not sure if that means anything.
He also stomped some nameless Shaolin monk who trained under Retsu's master.
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Ali Jr should also scale to the likes of Smoking Joe, since he's superior to his father who's regarded as the one if the best boxers in the series and has fought with Joe in the past.
Smoking Joe could seriously injure Post-Pickle battle Retsu (Joe hit Retsu so hard that his vision became all wonky and he even compared the power of the blow to something similar to how Baki and Pickle's pinches felt, despite the fact that Joe was wearing gloves). Joe could also keep up with Retsu in combat, and even manages to hit him in mid air when he started jumping around to mess with Joe's boxing rhythm. And Retsu had to use a secret technique from his Kung Fu just to temporarily knock Joe out
Smoking Joe could seriously injure Post-Pickle battle Retsu (Joe hit Retsu so hard that his vision became all wonky and he even compared the power of the blow to something similar to how Baki and Pickle's pinches felt, despite the fact that Joe was wearing gloves). Joe could also keep up with Retsu in combat, and even manages to hit him in mid air when he started jumping around to mess with Joe's boxing rhythm. And Retsu had to use a secret technique from his Kung Fu just to temporarily knock Joe out
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PTSOXMONKEY99 said:
This is all im going to say, it's not will power it has alwayd been stated to be imagination and realization. Musashi is one of the very few who are able to us this ability, pickle was talented enough to master it also during his fight with baki. It has always been stated to be his imagination hax making the non existent into reality. Thats a hack it's not will power by any means. It has always been stated to be imagination turned to reality. For however long the user sees fit Baki used this multiple times against retsu is on display the brst hr literally hurt himself shadow boxing and everyone else around was able to see someone there because of bakis hax. He has attacked like this before as well. Just saying theres a big difference. Will power isn't making the impossible fake, nor has yujiro ever been stated to also dawn this ability. After he punched the ground then flexed the earthquake stopped thats it. There's nothing elsr to suggest he didn't stop it using his own strength, as well as the general said yujiro has no than likely stopped more than just earthquakes with his crazy power before. So one could even assume he has done this more than once.
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Having a some trouble understanding you here, but if you're saying that Mushashi has hax and Yujiro punched the earthquake to stop it instead of willing it to stop, then yeah, thats been agreed upon forever now.
What happened with this thread btw? Was't there gonna be a downgrade to Small Town level or something? Or an upgrade to tier 6? Idk, haven't been here in awhile.
What happened with this thread btw? Was't there gonna be a downgrade to Small Town level or something? Or an upgrade to tier 6? Idk, haven't been here in awhile.
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Uhm in what world of utter down play would yujiro ever be small town level? I have no clue why this is egen a thing? other feats and statements prove and justify to why this would be a 7a feat likely higher honestly, it was stated
It alone. His power is stronger then a nuke a modern day nuke is like 2500 megatons of force. How in what way unless you don't count any statement or feat from him like defeating the entite usa bare handed by himself. I've been in seth the program discord for a while now, dicussing this very thing and almost everyone including him, have found reason and come to believe he could be tier6 likely higher.
It alone. His power is stronger then a nuke a modern day nuke is like 2500 megatons of force. How in what way unless you don't count any statement or feat from him like defeating the entite usa bare handed by himself. I've been in seth the program discord for a while now, dicussing this very thing and almost everyone including him, have found reason and come to believe he could be tier6 likely higher.
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Okay so lets compare earthquakes and we can also scale yujiro off his dad but here are a few calcs first yujiro wasdtayed stronger than a nuke a long time ago, after he defeated the usa actually as a 16 year old. So
The magnitude scale is logarithmic. That just means that if you add 1 to an earthquake's magnitude, you multiply the shaking by 10. ... For example, if the magnitude of one quake is 6 and another is 4, than the difference in magnitudes is 2, so the stronger earthquake shakes 10^2 or 100 times as hard as the milder one. Both the worlds largest nuled being the tsar bomb, and castle bravo. Tsar bomb and castle bravo right? By the way there from waht i resarched on google there is currently a nuke
27,000 kg (60,000 lb)
And Length of the diameter is below the first set of numbers. So 50 x 15 is 750 plus or times a hundred. With the range and weight being taken into consideration. Also if yoi dont believe yujiro got any stronger or his growth rate isn't big.
8 m (26 ft)
Stryder even explains to baki in detail that he grows stronger by the second his growth rate of power is insaine he was much weaker when he stopped the earthquake only 16 when he surpased a nuke, and weather anyone believes it or not he is stronger than his dad and is stronger than the entire usa combined military forces meaning branch and they're weapons. All that is much weaker than yujiro from new grapppler to the end of dou. He has many times stronger on a daily basis constantly.
The magnitude scale is logarithmic. That just means that if you add 1 to an earthquake's magnitude, you multiply the shaking by 10. ... For example, if the magnitude of one quake is 6 and another is 4, than the difference in magnitudes is 2, so the stronger earthquake shakes 10^2 or 100 times as hard as the milder one. Both the worlds largest nuled being the tsar bomb, and castle bravo. Tsar bomb and castle bravo right? By the way there from waht i resarched on google there is currently a nuke
Code:
The so far unnamed 2018 nuke bomb yields 100 megatons of TNT . , the tsar bomb is only 50 megatons but it would have had a maximum yield of 100 megatons if it had included in it a uranium-238 tamper, like this new bomb originally the tsar bomb was supposed to have this as well, but because it didn't it is only at 50 megatons and castle bravo is 15 megatons. So with a Of WeightAnd Length of the diameter is below the first set of numbers. So 50 x 15 is 750 plus or times a hundred. With the range and weight being taken into consideration. Also if yoi dont believe yujiro got any stronger or his growth rate isn't big.
8 m (26 ft)
Code:
2.1 m (6.9 ft)Stryder even explains to baki in detail that he grows stronger by the second his growth rate of power is insaine he was much weaker when he stopped the earthquake only 16 when he surpased a nuke, and weather anyone believes it or not he is stronger than his dad and is stronger than the entire usa combined military forces meaning branch and they're weapons. All that is much weaker than yujiro from new grapppler to the end of dou. He has many times stronger on a daily basis constantly.
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Also factor in the fact he stopped a manitude 6 six earthquake with a base level punch meaning at that state he is already excerting over 100 megatons of force or equal to that amount. Mo demon back Monday aura mo full power and his aura resembled an earthquake witch shook an entire skyscraper. So factor that in as well. Okay well I have a chart nutyregardless the tsar bomb was 50 megatons largest ever the second largest is 15 megatons stopping that earthquake in base, and having gotten many times stronger since then. As well as surpassing the strongest nuke everat 16 that would logically make him at least 100 plus megatons during the time he stopped the earthquake. Stay are not speculation even goki has compared hos power to earthquakes hurricane and even the world splitting in half. No speculation these are truths, also i was referring to the new bomb that is getting readu to get tested. It is 100 on the dot as i stated earlier because of the uranium 238. He should be above well far above 100 megatons as for getting much stronger at least close to 2. Regardless if he were to invade the usa, he would be able to shit on and take over the whole country they have nothing that can stop him if you read the rest of the chapter obama and trump both state that nules high grade tanks bombs airplanes any type of advanced weapon they have would not work on yujrio. And this is backed up by the numerous statements and showings of yujiro and about yujiro.
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I was confused because the OP stated how we couldn't scale to the 7A earthquake because of waves radiated at the time and stuff like that, but it never really got discussed.
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He is above 7-A at least, or at least high 7-A if people want to nitpick. through all his feats and scaling. That just doesn't make any sense and is utter down play, it is fictional. They stated he stopped the earthquake so he stopped it. If it was real life then yes he'd have an argument. But nowhere in the show or manga was it ever stated that the waves nor anything was a factor. That's debunked off the top, he stopped it entirely. The waves radiated at the time? To it'd be something if that was ever stated he didn't stop them it is fcition. He stopped the earthquake waves and all. There is no basis to that argument. If that's the case then how does bugs bunmy jump out of thr tv show and become author how does he actually get into the rral world. It is fictional there is no basis to that argument no matter how hard anyone tries to spit it. I even asked seth about that and many people in his server agree. You also have a friend working on calcs for yujiro and bakis fight it was stated to be equal or greater than entire nations going to war, if anyone would like to try and disprove my claims. Hit me up on discord and we will full on debate.
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Look, I am not even interested in this series, but you will not get anywhere with rambling accusations. We are not trying to downplay the character. We simply do not seem to have any higher feat than 7-A to scale from.
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Just gonna quote this so a reminder on why I'm confused on the earthquake thing. Also the logic of "its fiction, so science doesn't apply" basically means that all of the calcs on this site are invalid, and basically any calc that attempts to quantify a fictional feat is worthless (aka SethTheProgrammer). This is how we judge earthquake feats here. There was a discussion on this I believe.Skyggen said:
He should still be in the tier 7A range via nuke statements, though.
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I don't know about the series but I definitrly agree with PTSOMONKEY's points.
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I don't know the whole context but, is a statement like "No army stands a chance against him" enough to justify scaling someone to the strongest nukes in the world?
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Here are the two statements his page links to
https://imgur.com/tjoXn2s (Being stronger than a nuke)
https://imgur.com/a/pepWi (An entire military standing no chance against him)
https://imgur.com/tjoXn2s (Being stronger than a nuke)
https://imgur.com/a/pepWi (An entire military standing no chance against him)
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7-C also doesn't seem out of the question. Given all the other statements about his power being comparable to a military, that nuke statement doesn't seem like an exaggeration.
But then again I haven't read Baki so maybe someone more knowledgeable should give their opinion on this.
But then again I haven't read Baki so maybe someone more knowledgeable should give their opinion on this.
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@Ant Which one of the calc group members are knowledgeable on earthquakes and such?
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Okay I'll put it like this, so it was never inied at all in the series or manga that he did not stop the entir of the earthquake, nothing was stated about the waves or anything they stated the earthquake was stopped regardless. That's an appeal, ignorance fallcy. It is more akin to a magnitude six earthquake as someone sr on this forum said. Word for word i quote This looks like Magnitude 6. Magnitude 5 can only damage already structurally damaged buildings, while 6 can start to really do some damage. Magnitude 6 also has "violent shaking" in the epicenter, which the screen certainly indicates. And this wagreed uppn by three people, if there was some indecision that his stopping the earthquake in canon continuity wasn't legit something would've been ssid or pointed oit somehow. Stryder also said, the fact that yujiro has probably dtoped more than just earthquakes before. He has more statements about his powrr comparing it to hurrcaines tornados tsunamis and even earthquake. His aura generated what people felt to be an earthquake also, he did it in base and demon back plus hid aura offers a massive increase, so if he isn't 7-A in base he is at max. To have stopped it he must've had to equal or greater power than 100 megatons there is a new bomb that is said to be 100 megatons tsar bomb was 50 right? He surpased a nuke at 16 Baki and his fist wa ssaid to be equal or greater than two entire nations fighting against each other. Science can be used but not in this continuity because the statements back up the feat, and he has gotten at least 1000 times Stronger since then. Can't ignore his increase in power either.
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I gave you a calc already. Two of them bro. I also agree with PTSOXMONKEY99. I'm not saying it is pointless, but there is no way to assume nor, come to any logical reasoning of why he didn't actually stop the earthquake. Especially they're wss nothing contradicting this only influencing it further.
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Look, to make yourself understood you need to properly structure your sentences, and while you are visiting this wiki your will have to try to adapt to our scaling conveniences. We can only rate characters by very reliable feats and descriptions.
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I'm not speaking rocket science, bro i calcd this feat twice to make sure the numbers were right, and others agree. You're saying seth doesnt cqlc reliable feats? If we are being Goku should be at least low multiversal but that is a whole other argument, reliable feats and statements of sed feats? If the narrator never said anything about Goku destroying the universe we would've never known right? It's certain feats that have a certain lore to them, right? So eith stryder and everyone elsr confirming he actually stopped the entirety of it, after doing it. That should be pretty solid as to why the feat was legit.
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I am not trying to be that guy. Or anything of the sort, I am just trying to get my point across is all. No hate but yujiros dad has constant small island level durability feats. So another thing is er could scale him off of his dad witch he probably surpassed since he defeated the entire usa at 16. Things like these are what I am saying. That's all.
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