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Yu-Gi-Oh!: fixing Yubel Scaling + some additions

Zencha

  1. I mean sure, although Zorc comparing the source of his power (infinite darkness) to Exodia's (Shimon's Ba) seems to really seems to suggest this (19:42). Especially since it started with Exodia easily ripping out Zorc's arm but ends with Exodia geting completely destroyed- it is an extreme fluctuation in power unless you want to leave the profiles as glass cannons.
  2. Him being sealed matters as it was to keep Exodia's spirit as the defender of the city (17:16, 18:36 same video as before), so it does matter.
    And like I said, occam's razor. If he appears in GX from an alt. dimension, then chances are he also originates from it.
We've already separated 4kids dub from the anime canon. I'm not sure if using 4kids dialogue, even if it is relatively close, is okay. 4Kids actively altering the content makes it little better than fandubs or an abridged series on YT tbh.
 
1-he was talking about his immorality and how his source of power is infinite. in the end of the day he tanked multiple hits from Zorc without much trouble before getting one shotted by one his more powerful attacks and couldn't reform due to his user dying i don't see any problem with exodia scaling to zorc's regular attacks
It also clears the whole "exodia didn't use his full power" headcanon
2- literally doesn't matter Because shimon sealed exodia due to his massive power and in the end of the day he relesaed exodia and is now unsealed pegasus painted it and now the spirit can be summoned from the card . Also exodia (the cards) existed before season 3 started now give me evidence that says exodia orginated from that dimension or anything that says that yubel took the exodia cards from that dimension

Also okay let's assume for some reason that exodia originate from that dimension why would he not scale when spirits are always the same in their card form you need evidence that says that exodia is different from the other spirits otherwise occam's razor doesn't work
 
  1. Yes, and what do power sources do exactly? What happens when your source gets weaker?
    Shimon only died after Exodia got one shot. Exodia used his own more powerful attacks within the fight with 0 effects. Despite earlier ripping off Zorc's entire arm without any special attacks. If you can't see an obvious decline in power, I don't what to say other than asking a third party here.
  2. Exodia's seals only wear off when the city is attacked though, they aren't in ancient Egypt so Shimon's seal still applies. Idk if Exodia had been summoned as a spirit pre-Season 5 since he hadn't participated in a Shadow Duel.
    Again that's now how the burden of proof works. We literally see GX Exodia come from the third alternative dimension, you have to prove that it has the same origins as DM Exodia.
Site rules, we don't immediately scale alt. versions of characters to one another.
 
1-If exodia's source of power becomes weaker then goes to base but at the end of the day there is no statment of shimon being weakened nor was he shown to be weakened. Im pretty sure that Physical attacks were shown to hurt Zorc more than energy blasts Because most of the time he tanks energy blasts
Also how was he weakened but was able to use exodia's most powerful attack?
2-prove it. Season 5 is in the past and a shadow game isn't needed to know how a spirit gets summoned. Exodia existed before the season started they didn't refer to him as an alternate exodia they were refering to him as the same legendary exodia and just Because he gets summoned in an alternate dimension doesn't mean he orginated from that said dimension it wasn't stated that he was from that dimension simple as that
Otherwise all monster that are summoned in S3 are alternate versions of themselfs. Like neos and you know that's not true
Pretty sure the rule varies from verse to verse otherwise it wouldn't make much sense in this case
 
  1. Considering that Shimon is an old man (Ba = life force and age would clearly weaken that) and the fact that he is coiling in pain throughout the battle, it seems pretty evident.
    Seems kinda like headcanon to just counter the point.
    Exodia's most powerful attack... which couldn't do anything to Zorc. I mean, this is also after Zorc talks about how Exodia's power is limited by Shimon's ba, it's not hard to put one and one together.
  2. Prove it? 18:35 forward, Shimon states that he sealed Exodia and set it to be the city's guardian since he feared his power. Pretty sure I already linked this. The cards of Exodia existed, but I don't believe his spirit was ever summoned in a shadow game.
    You're using the biggest technicality here to try to disprove the point: "Sure DM Exodia is explicitly sealed to protect a city and sure the GX Exodia came from an alternative dimension, but it never specifically states that it was born in the alternative dimension and not the same Exodia."
    As for the idea that there can't be alternative counterparts, Kaibaman says hello. Even the Spirit World in DM is different from the one(s) in GX (Check GX episode 160, if I remember correctly, Honest stated it). And if we want to go even further, Arc-V also tackles this topic.
There are reasons to scale in other franchises (For example, most DB games consider the anime/movies canon to them), but you haven't proved that here.
 
1-you kinda forgot that he just got the millennium key and that millennium items fully restore Ba so he's at his strongest. All Ka users get exausted when their Ka gets hurt (like yugi bakura and mahado ) but they are never treated as being weakened
2-ok i know he was sealed for a period of time due to being strong but where does it state that he is always sealed?.
You're saying that exodia is still sealed even tho you have no proof up of such a thing also Why does appearing in a shadow game matters?. Show where it says that copies are from an alternate dimension and i'll consede immediately also kaibaman is not the only one who can summon a copy of himself not sure why you mentioned only him. Checked the episode and honest doesn't say that the spirit world in GX is diffrent than the one in DM where did you get that from?. Grr not ARC-V again they touch on alternate versions of characters not sure if it talks about monsters
You need me prove that alternate monster are the same? Sure Season 5 takes place in an alternate world inside the puzzle and small yugi & kaiba were able to summon monsters from their cards and the monsters they summoned were not only as strong as the Kas that were in the puzzle but were same monsters Because dark magician recognizing mana and mana recognizing him as the same "master" and yugi being able to summon the gods with his cards they get summoned from their corpses
 
  1. He had to use the item just to summon Exodia- that's not a good sign.
    I'm not sure I remember many cases where the Ka was destroyed and the users were fine (other than the pain ofc), though I might just be misremembering. Either way, weren't you arguing at one point that a portion of Ba is lost whenever a Ka is destroyed? That would weaken them.
  2. We both acknowledge that Exodia was sealed, however, it is your burden of proof to state the seal broke somewhere between season 5 and the rest of DM. However, the fact that Pegasus got all his monsters from their tablets and Exodia's tablets were part of the seal, show that Exodia was sealed since then.
    Just checked it myself, it's at 5:50. DM's Spirit World was destroyed by the darkness, but GX's (multiple) Spirit Worlds still exist.
    Most of the monsters in Arc-V are alt. versions of the main monsters, like the Scarlight Red Dragon Archfiend.
    I was going to bring up Dark Magician as a counterargument, though I see your interpretation. However, the fact that there exists a DM Dark Magican and a Season 5 Dark Magician (His origins are shown there) at the same time goes against you. It also helps that there exists the White Dragon (Kisara's ver) and the Blue-Eyes White Dragon (Kaiba's card ver) at the same time.
 
1-Yeah he restored ia Ba and summoned exodia. It Actually happens alot when a ka gets damages and you see the user panting etc. Not really i was arguing for a while that losing Ba doesn't weaken monsters from their base
2-im pretty sure that the seal is shimon sealing his tablet away in earth Because he's too powerful and thus no one can summon him not a non - corporeal seal that seals exodia Forever also all of this happened in the past exodia's seal is broken otherwise it doesn't make sense to why pegasus was able to paint him as a card . The fact that pegsaus was able to paint exodia means that the seal is broken. Honest says that there are various worlds in the spirit world he doesn't say that there are various spirit worlds that doesn't make much sense he also later refers to the various worlds as the spirit world and it makes more sense that there are more worlds in the spirit world Because it is said in various normal monsters text that there are various worlds like the dark ocean dark etc. I mean the dimension split casued alot of irregularities like the backstories of the previous characters are not really the same in Arc-v so i don't think it makes sense to use them. 2 Dark magician didn't appear at the same time it goes like this dark magician dies (S5) small yugi summons him back he says that he is back and recognizes mana and she recognizes him back . It Actually helps my case Because when Kaiba wanted summon blue-eyes ultimate dragon he summoned kisara and P seto's blue-eyes
 
  1. So while a Ka may grow stronger from it user's ba, is fueled by its user's ba, and reflects the user's ba- it doesn't grow weaker when the user's ba is weaker too? Seems a bit lacking, occam's razor (not to mention, Exodia going from having the upper hand [literally] to being one-shot) would suggest this to be the case.
  2. It doesn't seal the spirit forever- it just limits him to the city it's defending.
    Pegasus painting Exodia means the seal is still active- as it was connected to the tablets (so no seal no tablet and vice versa). Where other Kas can be summoned from their temples anywhere, Exodia was explicitly for the city.
    I mean, potato potatoe, if multiple worlds compose the Spirit world, it doesn't take away the fact that there are multiple versions of the monsters.
    That's why I'm using Arc-V, since it explicitly shows that alternative (thus with different backstories) versions can occur.
    Let me specify, when I mentioned DM Dark Magician I also meant Arkana's Dark Magician. There are two different Dark Magicians.
    That doesn't help your case at all, the fact that there are 3 White Dragons show alternative versions of the monster can exist.
 
Im gonna respond in a big post later but i want to ask you what makes you think that exodia seal is reletaed to the city is it
Is it the "i set you as this city's protector" ?
 
can you link me an episode where he says it more than once ? (other than when fought zorc because i've seen it already)
because i'm suspicious that it's a mistranslation
 
yeah set the phrase "i set you as this city's protector" is clearly false shimon says that he is too powerfull so he sealed him into 5 stones and swore to never use him again
i'm using the wiki (yeah i'm using the wiki LUL . but i used it because crunchyroll's translation is iffy at best )and another site that translated the same phrase if you don't trust me then feel free to call a translator
 
The 5 stones were around the city, so it works still.
What's wrong with CR's translator?
 
from what i get the "protector of the city" is not really in the original and he doesn't really mention how the seal works in the CR translation meanwhile in the wiki and other translation he mentions that he sealed exodia into 5 tablets
it also makes alot more sense given that millenum item users are able to seal other monsters into the tablets
it makes more sense than shimon having a wierd unexplained ability that makes exodia unable to be summoned outside the city
 
The 5 tablets statement also happens in the CR translation, its just after the protector of the city part.

Wasn't that supposed to be for P Seto only? Regardless, Exodia's tablets work pretty different from the rest. Even if we ignore that it's split among five, it also has telekinesis, manifests from the Earth, has a seal connecting them, and are pretty massive.

He does say its so Exodia is used to only protect the city since his power is too great. I think its just slightly better sealing, not much else to it.
 
the "protector of the city" thingy is shimon saying that he sealed exodia away to protect the city because he was too powerful
aknadin does the exact same thing shimon does so it's not really an exodia thing. the tablets being massive has nothing to do with either shimon nor exodia's abilities
it's still wierd for shimon to have a better unexplained sealing than the rest
 
If the translation is considered not sufficiently reliable in this instance, then we should consult the dialogue; It can be heard, not just read. I think we should ask a user who is fluent in Japanese to transcribe &/or translate Shimon's dialogue, so that the precise meaning is clearer. Is he saying he set Exodia as the city's protector? Or is he saying something else?
 
Imaginym - If you want- I still don't see any reason not to trust CR's translations.

Zencha - Protector the city means Exodia protects the city, if sealing Exodia protected the city as you interpret it, then Exodia wouldn't be the 'protector' (Although either interpretation still has Exodia sealed there). Aknadin's sealing is inferior (Couldn't seal Diabound who should be < Exodia / Zorc) and limited to one smaller tablet at a time, so the differences show quite a lot about the gap in their abilities. All the Millennium Items have a couple of unique abilities, so it's not really weird.
 
SomebodyData said:
Imaginym - If you want- I still don't see any reason not to trust CR's translations.

Zencha - Protector the city means Exodia protects the city, if sealing Exodia protected the city as you interpret it, then Exodia wouldn't be the 'protector' (Although either interpretation still has Exodia sealed there). Aknadin's sealing is inferior (Couldn't seal Diabound who should be < Exodia / Zorc) and limited to one smaller tablet at a time, so the differences show quite a lot about the gap in their abilities. All the Millennium Items have a couple of unique abilities, so it's not really weird.
Click to expand...
he would still be"the protector" because he protected the city from the thousands of bandits so yeah he would still be the protector but it doesn't matter because it doesn't exist .
daibound resists sealing are are you saying that 1st form diabound is stronger than the gods ?
 
Might be a translation issue, but Exodia protected the kingdom from an army (guessing that is where you got your thousands of bandits from), prior to this. He was also set as the protector after this feat.
No, my scaling still puts Diabound far below.
 
yes he would be called the protector after the feat i didn't say otherwise
ok then that debunk the fact that sealing is based on power
 
Not called, but set by Shimon as the protector.
I never said it isn't? If anything, that proves that Shimon (Sealed Exodia) > P Seto (Can't seal Diabound)
 
Yeah, I think I remember something like that, though that raises the question on why diabound has resistance on the page then.
 
SomebodyData said:
Not called, but set by Shimon as the protector.
I never said it isn't? If anything, that proves that Shimon (Sealed Exodia) > P Seto (Can't seal Diabound)
Click to expand...
he is literally called a preotector by kaiba in the translation you're okay with
he has resistance to sealing because he got out of the tablet when far stronger monsters couldn't .also it doesn't even make sense in the story for P Seto to be inferior to shimon a dying old man that isn't even a magician like mahado
 
SomebodyData said:
Imaginym - If you want- I still don't see any reason not to trust CR's translations.

Zencha - Protector the city means Exodia protects the city, if sealing Exodia protected the city as you interpret it, then Exodia wouldn't be the 'protector' (Although either interpretation still has Exodia sealed there). Aknadin's sealing is inferior (Couldn't seal Diabound who should be < Exodia / Zorc) and limited to one smaller tablet at a time, so the differences show quite a lot about the gap in their abilities. All the Millennium Items have a couple of unique abilities, so it's not really weird.
Click to expand...
Right then. Who do we have who's Fluent in Japanese as well as active? Looking at the Multilingual Members List, it looks like most of them are Limited, which may not be what we need to transcribe & translate with precision & by ear.
 
Zencha

I'm talking about Shimon setting Exodia as a protector, Kaiba calling Exodia the protector only adds to my point.
Shimon, who's ka is Exodia and was the predecessor to Shada, is just a dying old man? The guy naturally had a ka superior to all of P Seto's Kas until Blue-Eyes, to even remotely imply Shimon isn't that strong compared to P Seto is absurd.

Also Overlord contradicts your statement about the sealing resistance.
 
SomebodyData said:
Zencha

I'm talking about Shimon setting Exodia as a protector, Kaiba calling Exodia the protector only adds to my point.
Shimon, who's ka is Exodia and was the predecessor to Shada, is just a dying old man? The guy naturally had a ka superior to all of P Seto's Kas until Blue-Eyes, to even remotely imply Shimon isn't that strong compared to P Seto is absurd.

Also Overlord contradicts your statement about the sealing resistance.
Click to expand...
whatever when the translation comes out it won't matter
yes he is a dying old man the only reason he could summon exodia is because of the key
it doesn't matter if he has a tablet or not he was sealed and he reisted it to say otherwise is literally denying the events of the story
 
I mean, you still haven't explained the issue with the translations...
He only started dying after taking several hits from Zorc indirectly, before that his Ka (and his Ka alone) was considered far above any of the other guardians. Safe to say he's far above most of them.
I don't think Overlord or I are denying the events of the story, just pointing out that he was already sealed so there isn't any 'resistance' to speak of.
 
the fact the CR translations have spread misinformation ?like the aknadin translation
i'm not talking about the the zorc fight i'm talking about him normally he's not a magician he wasn't stated to have big amount of BA he's not noteworthy just a regular guy why should he be above the P seto
what are you talkng about ? he wasn't sealed when he fought the sacred palace (the preists& yugi etc)
 
Zencha
Aknadin misinformation?
Exodia is his natural Ka, the idea that he's somehow inferior to Seto is hard to believe.
Are you trying to say Diabound was sealed later?

Same

Overlord
Well in, for example, a vs thread, the site makes the battlefield a neutral place (basically there would be no tablet). Not to mention, most sealing doesn't work the same way so there wouldn't be any resistance.
 
the "the white dragon is her BA" thing it's literally misinformation
prove it
no i am saying how is is he already sealed ?
 
BRUH

this is an indexing site Somebody, not a character fighting one, so SBA don't matter at all

Besides, the stone tablet would count more as equipment

Also, we equalize abilities for a reason, and read the "Unconventional" part
 
Zencha
Just because you disagree with it, doesn't make it a mistranslation.
...Prove that Exodia is Shimon's ka?
As Overlord pointed out, it was already sealed. I also vaguely remember it being sealed underneath the village in some plot twist regarding Yugi's father, but only really remember the manga version. I think Overlord was talking about the anime ver, though.

Overlord
As much as I wish we were a purely index site, we do still include the vs thread material.
...Standard equipment is for things you have on hand, the tablet is definitely not on hand.
...That's also not how equalization works, we make stuff like Dragon Ball Chi count as the same as HxH Nen for example, but don't change the mechanics of Chi or Nen.
 
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1-it's not about me disagreeing with it because it it's pretty blatant in the original it says "maybe the white dragon is her BA" but the CR translation just says it's her BA how is that not mistranslation WTF ?
2-yes
3-even if he has a tablet when diabound was sealed by P seto his portrait was on the tablet meaing that a KA can have more than one tablet but guess what diabound resisted it and broke free from it bakura even says that tablets are useless on diabound
fc98f4c5a0b8e6c39d4f87e8f5798f18.jpg
b28d362b3ec94c7b4282c906864d53db.jpg
 
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Zencha
1.Yes, he says osoraku but it was in the sentences before (6:15) when talking about how strong the White Dragon was in comparison to Diabound, not if it was her ba or not. It's more likely that the words were rearranged due to the Jap to Eng translation, similar to how most adjectives in Spanish are ahead of the nouns in contrast to English.
2. It's repeatedly stated that Exodia belongs to Shimon and Shimon had been using Exodia before he sealed him to fight off an army.
3. That, or Kas can't have two tablets and because of that, Diabound couldn't be sealed by Kaiba. This seems significantly more reasonable, given Diabound as we know, was sealed successfully underneath the village.
 
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