Yu-Gi-Oh!: fixing Yubel Scaling + some additions

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1st i would like to know why is amon's exodia considered to be not at full power when there's no indication of exodia being weakened

now to some yubel feats
  • while weakened yubel was able to subdue the sacred beasts with her will/spirit power




  • while heavily weakened yubel was able to block amon's attacks (empowered by exodia ) twice the 2nd time she overpowers and reflects the attack it back at amon









TLDR
  1. exodia not being at his strongest is nonsense because there's no indication of exodia being weakened
  2. yubel scales to full powered exodia
  3. yubel gainst the abilities of the sacred beasts because she has them
also for the people that don't know much about YGO yubel possess other characters that's why the scans shows different characters
 
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seems good

though she should be 3-A since she's he gentle darkness, with the universe having been created by the darkness, and can beat the light of destruction, which can erase the universe
 
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It feels a bit strange to assume this Exodia is the same Exodia or the same strength as The Exodia from Ancient Egypt, but I'm not entirely opposed to the notion.

Looking into it, the Exodia Cards involved were Yubel's (I haven't learned how she got them.), but she used them while possessing Marcel, then gave them to Adrian Gecko as part of a deal. Unsure of the details of this deal.
But the Exodia Spirit itself is freed in the third Alternate Dimension, by breaking a seal. How this seal is broken is by sacrificing the duel energy of someone close to you. For Adrien, that's Echo.
Also, the Exodia from Egypt would be dead, no, after the conflict with Zorc, thousands of years ago, so how could it be the same one? Do we have an explanation in canon?
& other than scaling to Yubel, it lacks feats, no? Unless we assume this Exodia Spirit that was sealed in another dimension is equally powerful as the one that fought Zorc because "The" Forbidden One is a Spirit or something?

Unsure if that's of any significance. Still, it is an Exodia from another dimension, & sealed & freed with a different method than the previous.
 
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Also, the Exodia from Egypt would be dead, no, after the conflict with Zorc, thousands of years ago, so how could it be the same one? Do we have an explanation in canon?
the exodia tablets weren't destroyed iirc, so it wasn't a permanent death

& other than scaling to Yubel, it lacks feats, no? Unless we assume this Exodia Spirit that was sealed in another dimension is equally powerful as the one that fought Zorc because "The" Forbidden One is a Spirit or something?
Unsure if that's of any significance. Still, it is an Exodia from another dimension, & sealed & freed with a different method than the previous.
There's no reason to assume it's any different, as gx is a direct sequel of Duel Monsters

also, the world of the Duel Spirits is a separate dimesion, so Exodia has always came from another dimension
 
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the exodia tablets weren't destroyed iirc, so it wasn't a permanent death
If you recall correctly? If Exodia dying in the Milennium World may be of consequence, shouldn't we verify that?
There's no reason to assume it's any different, as gx is a direct sequel of Duel Monsters
Being from a sequel series in the same continuity isn't 100% enough to make them entirely alike, & Exodia was often referred to as though it was a singular entity, no?
also, the world of the Duel Spirits is a separate dimesion, so Exodia has always came from another dimension
Just to be sure, where/how was this stated?

Pardon my probing. please.
 
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monsters in yugioh are always treated as the same why would exodia be any different ?
and even if exodia dies or his stone tablet gets destroyed he will just return to the afterlife like all other monsters and humans
diabound got killed and his tablet destroyed and was able to be summoned after all of that. and no says that he's different or anything like that all of the characters refer to him as the same diabound why would exodia be any different ?
and the shimon while using exodia was heavily weakened and didn't have enough BA to keep exopdia fighting zorc. meanwhile amon sacrificed his GF and had full control of exodia without showing any sgins of weakness unlike shimon
 
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monsters in yugioh are always treated as the same why would exodia be any different ?
Being called "The Forbidden One", & being Legendary to the point of being split up & sealed? & if they could call on monsters from the 3rd alternate dimension, then why did that Exodia end up sealed?
and even if exodia dies or his stone tablet gets destroyed he will just return to the afterlife like all other monsters and humans
The 3rd Duel Spirit Dimension, where losing a duel is death, is an afterlife?
diabound got killed and his tablet destroyed and was able to be summoned after all of that. and no says that he's different or anything like that all of the characters refer to him as the same diabound why would exodia be any different ?
Wasn't that Diabound summoned post-death via card in a Shadow Game?
and the shimon while using exodia was heavily weakened and didn't have enough BA to keep exopdia fighting zorc. meanwhile amon sacrificed his GF and had full control of exodia without showing any sgins of weakness unlike shimon
Agreed, but wasn't part of how Adrian/Amon obtained Exodia through a deal with Yubel?
 
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Being called "The Forbidden One", & being Legendary to the point of being split up & sealed? & if they could call on monsters from the 3rd alternate dimension, then why did that Exodia end up sealed?
that's an exodia thing when shimon summoned him he was sealed in the tablets same with amon he needed the exodia pieces in his hand against edo in order to realase the seal to summon the real exodia but couldn't do so because edo/aster had some card that makes him only have 4 cards or something like that so he sacrificed his GF by using the exodia spell in order to release exodia by using exodius
The 3rd Duel Spirit Dimension, where losing a duel is death, is an afterlife?
no the afterlife is the place where atem goes to in the end of DM the place where monsters and humans die (like atem's father)
and the place kaiba goes to in the end of DSOD
Wasn't that Diabound summoned post-death via card in a Shadow Game?
no he was summoned because the seal of the afterlife was being weakened
Agreed, but wasn't part of how Adrian/Amon obtained Exodia through a deal with Yubel?
no it was with aster/edo
 
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that's an exodia thing when shimon summoned him he was sealed in the tablets same with amon he needed the exodia pieces in his hand against edo in order to realase the seal to summon the real exodia but couldn't do so because edo/aster had some card that makes him only have 4 cards or something like that so he sacrificed his GF by using the exodia spell in order to release exodia by using exodius
Wasn't there physically a big, chained up door Exodia's spirit was locked behind that Aster was blocking the way to?
no the afterlife is the place where atem goes to in the end of DM the place where monsters and humans die (like atem's father)
and the place kaiba goes to in the end of DSOD
Then why did you say "and even if exodia dies or his stone tablet gets destroyed he will just return to the afterlife like all other monsters and humans"?
no he was summoned because the seal of the afterlife was being weakened
Diabound was in that same place? & so was Exodia, despite the seal that unlocked it in the 3rd alternate dimension?
no it was with aster/edo
From what I've read on the Yugioh Wiki, Adrian/Amon obtained Exodia through a deal with Yubel, & Marcel had used Exodia previously, when possessed by Yubel.
 
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Wasn't there physically a big, chained up door Exodia's spirit was locked behind that Aster was blocking the way to?
yep
Then why did you say "and even if exodia dies or his stone tablet gets destroyed he will just return to the afterlife like all other monsters and humans"?
because unlike humans monsters can be reborn from the afterlife like diabound
Diabound was in that same place? & so was Exodia, despite the seal that unlocked it in the 3rd alternate dimension?
yeah bakura and diabound died in and were reborn in front of the millenum Stone. not sure what you're talking about here
but exodia being 5 cards/tablets is the seal the difference between his GX and DM apperance is the gate that he was summoned from in GX and that was due to the ritual spell
From what I've read on the Yugioh Wiki, Adrian/Amon obtained Exodia through a deal with Yubel, & Marcel had used Exodia previously, when possessed by Yubel.
just checked and no amon when dueling marcel was using cloudians up til the sacred beasts came in and yeeted couldian eye of the typhoon with the passive soul manip yubel then suppress them as shown in the scans
 
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yep

because unlike humans monsters can be reborn from the afterlife like diabound

yeah bakura and diabound died in and were reborn in front of the millenum Stone. not sure what you're talking about here
My issue is Adrian's/Amon's Exodia was gotten from cards from Yubel & unsealed in what's supposedly the 3rd alternate dimension, not an afterlife. Or rather, sealed behind some big, chained up door that doesn't look much like the doorway Atem took to the afterlife. I'd question that Exodia was in an afterlife to begin with.
just checked and no amon when dueling marcel was using cloudians up til the sacred beasts came in and yeeted couldian eye of the typhoon with the passive soul manip yubel then suppress them as shown in the scans
I don't deny that Adrian/Amon was using Cloudians before Exodia. I was claiming he obtained Exodia from Yubel.
If you have scans (Of how Adrian/Amon obtained Exodia, in particular.), I'd appreciate it if you could link them. Thank you, & sorry for any bother.

Looking at what the Wikia said:
"Adrian later reappears in the third alternate dimension after the fall of The Supreme King with his left arm imbued with a portion of Yubel's power. Intending to become the dimension's king he sacrificed Echo, to free the spirit of "Exodia the Forbidden One" from imprisonment and make it his servant, defeating Aster Phoenix in the process."
 
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My issue is Adrian's/Amon's Exodia was gotten from cards from Yubel & unsealed in what's supposedly the 3rd alternate dimension, not an afterlife. Or rather, sealed behind some big, chained up door that doesn't look much like the doorway Atem took to the afterlife. I'd question that Exodia was in an afterlife to begin with.
yes he got it from yubel exodia appeared from the the door because that's the effect of the Ritual of the Ultimate Forbidden Lord he was going to summon exodia normally but edo/aster used force of four and said no
you also see exodia's head on the door after he uses the spell so it was not there up until he activated

I don't deny that Adrian/Amon was using Cloudians before Exodia. I was claiming he obtained Exodia from Yubel.
If you have scans (Of how Adrian/Amon obtained Exodia, in particular.), I'd appreciate it if you could link them. Thank you, & sorry for any bother.

Looking at what the Wikia said:
"Adrian later reappears in the third alternate dimension after the fall of The Supreme King with his left arm imbued with a portion of Yubel's power. Intending to become the dimension's king he sacrificed Echo, to free the spirit of "Exodia the Forbidden One" from imprisonment and make it his servant, defeating Aster Phoenix in the process."
yes he obtained it from yubel what's wrong with that ?
"After making his reappearance in the third alternate dimension after The Supreme King is defeated, Adrien plays an Exodia Deck, using the Exodia pieces he received from Yubel as part of their deal. "
 
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I feel like I should check the episode's content myself. No offense meant. I want to look at the lines, when the door appeared, how Exodia's head appeared, the context of how/why Yubel gave him the Exodia cards, etc.

Apologies if you mind my argumentativeness. I hope I haven't been unpleasant so far.
 
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i am also at fault if i made you think i'm annoyed by you or anything it's just how i debate
 
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i am also at fault if i made you think i'm annoyed by you or anything it's just how i debate
No problem. In my opinion, debate can sometimes SEEM a bit hostile, since it's in its nature to involve lots of speaking contrary to what other people said with certainty, for one. Not inherently bad, but it can be emotionally misinterpreted.
 

SomebodyData

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Exodia's power comes directly from the Ba of the user. Is there any point proving that they're equal to Shimon?
 

SamanPatou

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I'm not quite familiar with GX (mainly because I hate it) but Yubel should scale.
However, are we sure that counts as Yubel's AP and not mental power or similar?
Can we take in account the original rules of Ba etc... even if GX basically ignores what was established in the original series? (I mean, all the lore and rules about what monsters are and else are twisted and/or ignored in GX)
 

SamanPatou

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It's diffulicult to say what GX actually uses and what not, but all the lore and thing about the monsters being the manifestation of the user's spiritual energy and such are gone.
In GX monsters live in another dimension (but are independant spirits at the same time) and can play with the cards of themselves and a bunch of other weird stuff in different arcs, at least from what I remember.
Even the world building and the society are quite different, but that doesn't mean much.
 
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Exodia's power comes directly from the Ba of the user. Is there any point proving that they're equal to Shimon?
1-that's literally every KA in existance also KAs get powered up by the user's will/BA but don't get weakened by them and there's multiple instances of that
like the whole bakura fights everyone at some point had really low BA including atem but he managed to kill him also Dark magician was able to repel the spirits and fight diabound while atem was having existential crisis these are same spirits can tank multiple attacks from a fully powered dark magician that scales above diabound normally
2-the fact the it's the same exodia
@SamanPatou spirit world was already established in DM
 
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SamanPatou

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I missed it, then.
GX is still very different from DM, but I guess it works anyway.
 
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it's just some KA mechanics that are different than the other spirits otherwise it's still very consistent with GX and 5D's spirits
 
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some explainsions to not get confused
KA : is basically stands from jojo but powered up by BA
BA : is what powers up KA it's based off life energy and strong will

basically data thinks because exodia is powered up by BA we can't scale him definitively
i said that all KAs in existance are powered up by BA and that all KAs get powered up by BA but they don't get weakened if the user's will gets destroyed and i gave an example of that
example being : when yugi was having existential crisis dark magician(his KA/stand) was able to deflect the ghosts that were attacking him the same ghosts that tanked mutliple attacks from a fully powered dark magician later on
and i'm still waiting for data's response
 

SamanPatou

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KAs kind of depend on BA, like Exodia who couldn't fight Zorc for long because Athem's prime minister (the one who looks like Yugi's grandpa) was also taking damage.
I think that we have more examples in DM, but I'm unsure.

This and your example don't cancel each other, though, it's still valid, I just wanted to point that out.
 
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there wasn't any statment of shimon or his exodia being weakened tho
the only thing zorc notes is that he is fully immortal because his power is infinite meanwhile exodia is not fully immortal because he draws power from a single human
 
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Tbh, I'm not even seeing why Yubel scales to Exodia based on those scans. I do agree with the ability additions for them tho.
 

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SomebodyData

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5D's Spirit World is completely different from the og series- so I wouldn't really bring it up.
  1. Exodia was explicitly weakened because of it tho, hence why it lost against Zorc in the first place. Even if your argument is correct- all you've done is proven that all of them are dependent on the user's Ba.
  2. It's not the same Exodia. The Exodia in season 5 was sealed by Shimon afterwards into 5 different tablets. Exodia in GX is literally from an alternative dimension.
 
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1-watched the whole fight again no exodia was not weakened in power shimon just didn't have enough power to make it fully immortal
2- exodia wasn't originally from that dimension tho? If you are refering to why exodia came from the door then that was Because of Ritual of the Ultimate Forbidden Lord
 

SomebodyData

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  1. ...So it was inferior to what it should have been.
  2. How do you know it wasn't originally from the third alternate dimension?
 
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1-not really exodia was trading blows with zorc and was doing better than the gods until zorc used an attack that killed shimon and exodia in the process
2-umm Because it wasn't stated to be from that dimension? also amon was going to summon exodia without the door thingy it's just that edo used a spell that makes amon have 4 cards maximum in his hand so amon used what any man would do and kill his gf
 
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1-Umm shimon lost his Ba that's why exodia died if he had more Ba exodia would've survived that that was my point anyways he still scales due to beating up zorc so it doesn't really matter
2-okay then can you prove that the exodia is diffrent than the one in DM? Because that's a really weak reasoning for believeing that it's a diffrent exodia

just Because a spirit gets summoned from an alternate dimension doesn't mean that they originate from said dimension
 

SomebodyData

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  1. The fact that Exodia is affected by the Ba of the user shows why GX Exodia shouldn't be compared to Season 5 Exodia.
  2. No, if something is from an alternative dimension on this wiki we don't automatically scale it to its "main" counterpart.
Okay? The fact that it's not the same Exodia alone is enough- since Season 5 Exodia is sealed in tablets and GX Exodia is from an alt. dimension. Regardless, occam's razor also disagrees with you.
 
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I already said I didn't see why scaling, but Data's arguments are fairly solid to say that directly scaling the two alternate versions of Exodia to each other shouldn't be done.
 
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1-umm the regenration gets affected not the power i already said that KAs don't get weaker if there's less Ba but get more powerful if there's more Ba and there's multiple instances of that also if being affect by Ba means that they are unquantifiable to scale then almost all characters from DM to GX get the same treatment and basically the whole scaling gets fucked
2-but he wasn't originally tho can you prove that he originate from that dimension? also we had a discussion about how spirits are always the same

Prove that he's not the same. He's sealed in the cards what's your point or are you gonna go with the cards arent the same spirits as the ones in the tablets. Pretty sure it works against you Because spirits were always considered the same you need more evidence to assume otherwise
 
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Do we have an explanation blog or something for Ba & Ka?
I feel like a numbered list of rules (As in, the rules Ba & Ka appear to follow within canon, not rules for how we are to treat them.) with screenshots of the manga (&/or anime, if applicable.) showcasing &/or explaining those rules in canon.
 
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Im probably gonna make a Ba and Ka blog in the future along with other blogs explaining other yugioh stuff
 
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Im probably gonna make a Ba and Ka blog in the future along with other blogs explaining other yugioh stuff
I wish we had one right now. Would make these revisions much easier to understand, at least, for me, & thus, I currently feel it might be easier to come to a conclusion in the future.
 
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Yeah that's true but as of right now i can't acces my pc so i can't do much right now
 

Antvasima

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Okay. Are there any members that I should notify for input help?
 

SomebodyData

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Zencha
  1. The idea that Ka gets stronger with more Ba but not weaker with less is pushing it, even by your own arguments.
    Even you admit that Exodia was standing his ground against Zorc- but as Shimon's Ba got weaker- Exodia then gets his arm annihilated, regens, and then even gets one-shot.
    As for the scaling, pretty sure it already takes that into account. Especially since Ba is rarely even used in it in this manner.
  2. Occam's razor dictates if it came from the alt. dimension, then Exodia probably originates from it too. Especially since Season 5 Exodia, I have to repeat, had been sealed within 5 tablets.
Season 5 Exodia was sealed in the tablets, it was even shown in the video I linked if you watched it. GX Exodia explicitly wasn't. That's all there is to it.
 
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Season 5 Exodia is 5 thousand years before GX because of the time travel sheninigans, so the sealing could have just been changed

though again, we only see Exodia's seal as how it appears in the real world, so that could just be the form of the seal in the spirit world, as Exodia still requires the 5 cards to release just like in Duel Monsters

though, either way, that being a different Exodia wouldn't make sense, as Exodia is one of a kind monster just like the egyptian gods

btw, the alternate dimension is just a part of the spirit world, which you know, all duel monsters come from
 

SomebodyData

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It would be headcanon and against Occam's razor tho.

I don't think it's ever stated the monsters are also sealed in the Spirit World, especially since Season 4 and GX in general would contradict this.

I'm not sure about Exodia being one of a kind being stated.

DM and GX show that the Spirit World isn't the sole origin of monsters (Some kas are born from the evil of people's hearts in DM, GX has Neo Space orbiting Jupiter; for example)
 
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1-well the feats support that Kas get stronger with Ba but not weaker im not bulling this out of my ass y know if you want to debunk this give instances where it was stated/shown that Kas get weaker than their base if there's less Ba
When exodia got his arm cut it he was not weakened wasn't stated or shown
Also what are talking about it was used when karim gave shada Ba shada's Ka became more powerful and was one shotting some monsters that he was having trouble with
2- you're acting like exodia didn't exist until S3 which is clearly wrong and what does him being sealed have to do with anything? Most monsters are sealed what's your point?
Also amon used other ways to summon exodia not by his effect but by the Ritual and exodius
 
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1-well the feats support that Kas get stronger with Ba but not weaker im not bulling this out of my ass y know if you want to debunk this give instances where it was stated/shown that Kas get weaker than their base if there's less Ba
Isn't it possible for a Ka to become weakened from a powered-up state if there's Less Ba, even if it doesn't get weakened below base?
Ex: Ka has power of 100, Ba increases, so Ka power increases to 200. Ba decreases, Ka goes to 175. More than base, but still weakened, compared to the powered-up state, & the weakening is as a result of the decrease in Ba.
Of course, I'm not familiar with all this Ka & Ba stuff anyway.
Do you have scans as to what the evidence for Ba going up means Ka is strengthened & such?
When exodia got his arm cut it he was not weakened wasn't stated or shown
Also what are talking about it was used when karim gave shada Ba shada's Ka became more powerful and was one shotting some monsters that he was having trouble with
2- you're acting like exodia didn't exist until S3 which is clearly wrong and what does him being sealed have to do with anything? Most monsters are sealed what's your point?
Also amon used other ways to summon exodia not by his effect but by the Ritual and exodius
 
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@Imaginym i mean it is possible but it is kinda headcanonish Because Kas are not shown or stated to get weaker but it exhaust the user
Can't take screenshots right now
But it was stated and shown that Kas can get stronger via will and hatred it's somehow related to Ba
Now for the examples/statments at the start of the arc when atem asks about what Kas are shimon says that they are born from the heart and that they got powered up by hatred
When aknadin saw bakura and shit his pants he wanted a strong Ka so he tortured a couple of criminals the criminals became more powerful due to feeling scared and not wanting to die
When karim was dying he gave shada all of his Ba karim died and shada's Ka became more powerful and bigger and he was able to one shot the monster that he was having trouble with
 
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Ep 201 for shimon explaining how Kas work and how they grow with evil
Ep end of 207 and 208 is when aknadin tortures the criminals to get them more powerful
Ep 213 for karim giving shada Ba
 
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Ep 201 for shimon explaining how Kas work and how they grow with evil
Ep end of 207 and 208 is when aknadin tortures the criminals to get them more powerful
Ep 213 for karim giving shada Ba
I assume Sub should be consulted where possible? Is dub dialogue completely unacceptable to consult in all instances?
 
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Yep
Also im planning to separate 4kids dub from the original Because it changes so much
 

Antvasima

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Okay. That is fine. I will unsubscribe to this thread then.
 

SomebodyData

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Zencha

  1. I mean sure, although Zorc comparing the source of his power (infinite darkness) to Exodia's (Shimon's Ba) seems to really seems to suggest this (19:42). Especially since it started with Exodia easily ripping out Zorc's arm but ends with Exodia geting completely destroyed- it is an extreme fluctuation in power unless you want to leave the profiles as glass cannons.
  2. Him being sealed matters as it was to keep Exodia's spirit as the defender of the city (17:16, 18:36 same video as before), so it does matter.
    And like I said, occam's razor. If he appears in GX from an alt. dimension, then chances are he also originates from it.
We've already separated 4kids dub from the anime canon. I'm not sure if using 4kids dialogue, even if it is relatively close, is okay. 4Kids actively altering the content makes it little better than fandubs or an abridged series on YT tbh.
 
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1-he was talking about his immorality and how his source of power is infinite. in the end of the day he tanked multiple hits from Zorc without much trouble before getting one shotted by one his more powerful attacks and couldn't reform due to his user dying i don't see any problem with exodia scaling to zorc's regular attacks
It also clears the whole "exodia didn't use his full power" headcanon
2- literally doesn't matter Because shimon sealed exodia due to his massive power and in the end of the day he relesaed exodia and is now unsealed pegasus painted it and now the spirit can be summoned from the card . Also exodia (the cards) existed before season 3 started now give me evidence that says exodia orginated from that dimension or anything that says that yubel took the exodia cards from that dimension

Also okay let's assume for some reason that exodia originate from that dimension why would he not scale when spirits are always the same in their card form you need evidence that says that exodia is different from the other spirits otherwise occam's razor doesn't work
 

SomebodyData

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  1. Yes, and what do power sources do exactly? What happens when your source gets weaker?
    Shimon only died after Exodia got one shot. Exodia used his own more powerful attacks within the fight with 0 effects. Despite earlier ripping off Zorc's entire arm without any special attacks. If you can't see an obvious decline in power, I don't what to say other than asking a third party here.
  2. Exodia's seals only wear off when the city is attacked though, they aren't in ancient Egypt so Shimon's seal still applies. Idk if Exodia had been summoned as a spirit pre-Season 5 since he hadn't participated in a Shadow Duel.
    Again that's now how the burden of proof works. We literally see GX Exodia come from the third alternative dimension, you have to prove that it has the same origins as DM Exodia.
Site rules, we don't immediately scale alt. versions of characters to one another.
 
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1-If exodia's source of power becomes weaker then goes to base but at the end of the day there is no statment of shimon being weakened nor was he shown to be weakened. Im pretty sure that Physical attacks were shown to hurt Zorc more than energy blasts Because most of the time he tanks energy blasts
Also how was he weakened but was able to use exodia's most powerful attack?
2-prove it. Season 5 is in the past and a shadow game isn't needed to know how a spirit gets summoned. Exodia existed before the season started they didn't refer to him as an alternate exodia they were refering to him as the same legendary exodia and just Because he gets summoned in an alternate dimension doesn't mean he orginated from that said dimension it wasn't stated that he was from that dimension simple as that
Otherwise all monster that are summoned in S3 are alternate versions of themselfs. Like neos and you know that's not true
Pretty sure the rule varies from verse to verse otherwise it wouldn't make much sense in this case
 

SomebodyData

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  1. Considering that Shimon is an old man (Ba = life force and age would clearly weaken that) and the fact that he is coiling in pain throughout the battle, it seems pretty evident.
    Seems kinda like headcanon to just counter the point.
    Exodia's most powerful attack... which couldn't do anything to Zorc. I mean, this is also after Zorc talks about how Exodia's power is limited by Shimon's ba, it's not hard to put one and one together.
  2. Prove it? 18:35 forward, Shimon states that he sealed Exodia and set it to be the city's guardian since he feared his power. Pretty sure I already linked this. The cards of Exodia existed, but I don't believe his spirit was ever summoned in a shadow game.
    You're using the biggest technicality here to try to disprove the point: "Sure DM Exodia is explicitly sealed to protect a city and sure the GX Exodia came from an alternative dimension, but it never specifically states that it was born in the alternative dimension and not the same Exodia."
    As for the idea that there can't be alternative counterparts, Kaibaman says hello. Even the Spirit World in DM is different from the one(s) in GX (Check GX episode 160, if I remember correctly, Honest stated it). And if we want to go even further, Arc-V also tackles this topic.
There are reasons to scale in other franchises (For example, most DB games consider the anime/movies canon to them), but you haven't proved that here.
 
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1-you kinda forgot that he just got the millennium key and that millennium items fully restore Ba so he's at his strongest. All Ka users get exausted when their Ka gets hurt (like yugi bakura and mahado ) but they are never treated as being weakened
2-ok i know he was sealed for a period of time due to being strong but where does it state that he is always sealed?.
You're saying that exodia is still sealed even tho you have no proof up of such a thing also Why does appearing in a shadow game matters?. Show where it says that copies are from an alternate dimension and i'll consede immediately also kaibaman is not the only one who can summon a copy of himself not sure why you mentioned only him. Checked the episode and honest doesn't say that the spirit world in GX is diffrent than the one in DM where did you get that from?. Grr not ARC-V again they touch on alternate versions of characters not sure if it talks about monsters
You need me prove that alternate monster are the same? Sure Season 5 takes place in an alternate world inside the puzzle and small yugi & kaiba were able to summon monsters from their cards and the monsters they summoned were not only as strong as the Kas that were in the puzzle but were same monsters Because dark magician recognizing mana and mana recognizing him as the same "master" and yugi being able to summon the gods with his cards they get summoned from their corpses
 

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  1. He had to use the item just to summon Exodia- that's not a good sign.
    I'm not sure I remember many cases where the Ka was destroyed and the users were fine (other than the pain ofc), though I might just be misremembering. Either way, weren't you arguing at one point that a portion of Ba is lost whenever a Ka is destroyed? That would weaken them.
  2. We both acknowledge that Exodia was sealed, however, it is your burden of proof to state the seal broke somewhere between season 5 and the rest of DM. However, the fact that Pegasus got all his monsters from their tablets and Exodia's tablets were part of the seal, show that Exodia was sealed since then.
    Just checked it myself, it's at 5:50. DM's Spirit World was destroyed by the darkness, but GX's (multiple) Spirit Worlds still exist.
    Most of the monsters in Arc-V are alt. versions of the main monsters, like the Scarlight Red Dragon Archfiend.
    I was going to bring up Dark Magician as a counterargument, though I see your interpretation. However, the fact that there exists a DM Dark Magican and a Season 5 Dark Magician (His origins are shown there) at the same time goes against you. It also helps that there exists the White Dragon (Kisara's ver) and the Blue-Eyes White Dragon (Kaiba's card ver) at the same time.
 
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1-Yeah he restored ia Ba and summoned exodia. It Actually happens alot when a ka gets damages and you see the user panting etc. Not really i was arguing for a while that losing Ba doesn't weaken monsters from their base
2-im pretty sure that the seal is shimon sealing his tablet away in earth Because he's too powerful and thus no one can summon him not a non - corporeal seal that seals exodia Forever also all of this happened in the past exodia's seal is broken otherwise it doesn't make sense to why pegasus was able to paint him as a card . The fact that pegsaus was able to paint exodia means that the seal is broken. Honest says that there are various worlds in the spirit world he doesn't say that there are various spirit worlds that doesn't make much sense he also later refers to the various worlds as the spirit world and it makes more sense that there are more worlds in the spirit world Because it is said in various normal monsters text that there are various worlds like the dark ocean dark etc. I mean the dimension split casued alot of irregularities like the backstories of the previous characters are not really the same in Arc-v so i don't think it makes sense to use them. 2 Dark magician didn't appear at the same time it goes like this dark magician dies (S5) small yugi summons him back he says that he is back and recognizes mana and she recognizes him back . It Actually helps my case Because when Kaiba wanted summon blue-eyes ultimate dragon he summoned kisara and P seto's blue-eyes
 

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  1. So while a Ka may grow stronger from it user's ba, is fueled by its user's ba, and reflects the user's ba- it doesn't grow weaker when the user's ba is weaker too? Seems a bit lacking, occam's razor (not to mention, Exodia going from having the upper hand [literally] to being one-shot) would suggest this to be the case.
  2. It doesn't seal the spirit forever- it just limits him to the city it's defending.
    Pegasus painting Exodia means the seal is still active- as it was connected to the tablets (so no seal no tablet and vice versa). Where other Kas can be summoned from their temples anywhere, Exodia was explicitly for the city.
    I mean, potato potatoe, if multiple worlds compose the Spirit world, it doesn't take away the fact that there are multiple versions of the monsters.
    That's why I'm using Arc-V, since it explicitly shows that alternative (thus with different backstories) versions can occur.
    Let me specify, when I mentioned DM Dark Magician I also meant Arkana's Dark Magician. There are two different Dark Magicians.
    That doesn't help your case at all, the fact that there are 3 White Dragons show alternative versions of the monster can exist.
 
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Im gonna respond in a big post later but i want to ask you what makes you think that exodia seal is reletaed to the city is it
Is it the "i set you as this city's protector" ?
 
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can you link me an episode where he says it more than once ? (other than when fought zorc because i've seen it already)
because i'm suspicious that it's a mistranslation
 
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yeah set the phrase "i set you as this city's protector" is clearly false shimon says that he is too powerfull so he sealed him into 5 stones and swore to never use him again
i'm using the wiki (yeah i'm using the wiki LUL . but i used it because crunchyroll's translation is iffy at best )and another site that translated the same phrase if you don't trust me then feel free to call a translator
 

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The 5 stones were around the city, so it works still.
What's wrong with CR's translator?
 
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from what i get the "protector of the city" is not really in the original and he doesn't really mention how the seal works in the CR translation meanwhile in the wiki and other translation he mentions that he sealed exodia into 5 tablets
it also makes alot more sense given that millenum item users are able to seal other monsters into the tablets
it makes more sense than shimon having a wierd unexplained ability that makes exodia unable to be summoned outside the city
 

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The 5 tablets statement also happens in the CR translation, its just after the protector of the city part.

Wasn't that supposed to be for P Seto only? Regardless, Exodia's tablets work pretty different from the rest. Even if we ignore that it's split among five, it also has telekinesis, manifests from the Earth, has a seal connecting them, and are pretty massive.

He does say its so Exodia is used to only protect the city since his power is too great. I think its just slightly better sealing, not much else to it.
 
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the "protector of the city" thingy is shimon saying that he sealed exodia away to protect the city because he was too powerful
aknadin does the exact same thing shimon does so it's not really an exodia thing. the tablets being massive has nothing to do with either shimon nor exodia's abilities
it's still wierd for shimon to have a better unexplained sealing than the rest
 
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If the translation is considered not sufficiently reliable in this instance, then we should consult the dialogue; It can be heard, not just read. I think we should ask a user who is fluent in Japanese to transcribe &/or translate Shimon's dialogue, so that the precise meaning is clearer. Is he saying he set Exodia as the city's protector? Or is he saying something else?
 

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Imaginym - If you want- I still don't see any reason not to trust CR's translations.

Zencha - Protector the city means Exodia protects the city, if sealing Exodia protected the city as you interpret it, then Exodia wouldn't be the 'protector' (Although either interpretation still has Exodia sealed there). Aknadin's sealing is inferior (Couldn't seal Diabound who should be < Exodia / Zorc) and limited to one smaller tablet at a time, so the differences show quite a lot about the gap in their abilities. All the Millennium Items have a couple of unique abilities, so it's not really weird.
 
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