You're not my first rodeo Llama - Battle for 2-B 5th Top 5 Strongest.

[TheGreatJedi13]

Arceus Vs Captain​

2-B Keys
Access to everything​

Round 1
Speed Equal
SBA

Captain -

Arceus -

Zoro solos -

Round 2
Speed Unequal
SBA

Captain -

Arceus -

Luffy Solos -

 

[Sniper670]

Arceus gave humans psychic powers, and they were able to seal Hoopa's powers and block him from being able to access his hyperspace (4D) rings

Round 1
Arceus does the same thing. Takes their powers, makes a plate out of it and negate every power that comes from it , because that's what the plates do. That's what happened with mythological giants powers iirc.

Round 2
I don't know. Same as above, but quicker, since Arceus is faster now

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

Round 1
Arceus does the same thing. Takes their powers, makes a plate out of it and negate every power that comes from it , because that's what the plates do. That's what happened with mythological giants powers iirc.

5D Fate and Causality Negs that work against Type 4 acausal. Captain choose not to believe in those outcomes and they will be negated. She can also use this even if erased across all of time

also, the negs can also EE someone conceptually

 

[Sniper670]

Well damn.

Immortality Type 9?

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

Well damn.

Immortality Type 9?

5D range covers that his fate affects the entire Astral Realm structure. He can also summon and have fought Ultimate Bahamut who treats all of the creations and reality in Granblue as mere paintings with Crimson Horizon as Canvass

 

[Aether2734]

Did she can do anything to all arceus physiology? (Like nep stuff and TD)

 

[Sniper670]

5D range covers that his fate affects the entire Astral Realm structure. He can also summon Ultimate Bahamut who treats all of creations and reality in Granblue as mere paintings with Crimson Horizon as Canvass

5D range won't allow you to affect something you can't interact with (NEP2) tho

Well, I don't really see the point of the last comment. But the Pokémon multiverse exists within the Consciousness of the Spirit. Treat all creation as paintings? Original Spirit treats them as mental objects. Which would include Arceus(Avatar) realm which transcends the multiverse

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

5D range won't allow you to affect something you can't interact with (NEP2) tho

She can. she defeated Otherworldly Beings and this guy which is neither creation nor destruction in Granblue fantasy and exists outside Providence.

Well, I don't really see the point of the last comment. But the Pokémon multiverse exists within the Consciousness of the Spirit. Treat all creation as paintings? Original Spirit treats them as mental objects. Which would include Arceus(Avatar) realm which transcends the multiverse

Arceus Realm isn't treated as 5D yet and the reality of pokemon is part of Arceus's true being. else he would have 5D hax so Astral Realm will be superior by nature. Bahamut has superiority over Astral Realm and is unbound by it as their nature is above Providence. at the very least Arceus by dimensionality is comparable to Astral Realm's structure and Bahamut has superiority over that but to an unknown degree.

If the enemy cannot be killed they will become a thing of the past where in they cannot exist in the present or future. and Fissionism allows him to separate Avatars from their true form as he did with Akasha and other primal beasts allowing them to pass away and no longer be tied to the true form that makes them immortal

 

[Sniper670]

She can. she defeated Otherworldly Beings and this guy which is neither creation nor destruction in Granblue fantasy and exists outside Providence.

The Original Spirit exists as mind that isn't mind.

With Arceus (Avatar) drawing a duality between Primordial Chaos and His existence (Creation Story ) which gave birth to the concept of nonexistence that Giratina embodies.

Abstract Existence + Nonexistence Type 2 devoid of Aspects Type 1,2, 3 and 5


Completely absent from the Duality of the multiverse and that Primordial Chaos. If you paid attention to the Spirit Story, the undivided state of the multiverse where everything blended and humans and Pokémon were the same existence existed within itself, it's independent of even that Chaos and rather contains it within himself in a state of being in everything as well as absent from anything. Paradoxical existence to everything in the Pokémon reality

Arceus Realm isn't treated as 5D yet and the reality of pokemon is part of Arceus's true being. else he would have 5D hax so Astral Realm will be superior by nature. Bahamut has superiority over Astral Realm and is unbound by it as their nature is above Providence.

Arceus Realm is 5D. Arceus hax doesn't scale to it beyond 5D creation. Which DT analysed and disagreed

This is irrelevant to the Original Spirit. He's just containing the multiverse in his mind

If the enemy cannot be killed they will become a thing of the past where in they cannot exist in the present or future. and Fissionism allows him to separate Avatars from their true form as he did with Akasha and other primal beasts allowing them to pass away and no longer be tied to the true form that makes them immortal

Funny. The OS created Arceus when there was nothing. Primordial Undifferentiated Emptiness beyond anything except himself . Not even the concept of nonexistence. What makes you think removing him from the past, present and future will do anything to it when they didn't even exist when he thought Arceus into existence.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

The Original Spirit exists as mind that isn't mind.

With Arceus (Avatar) drawing a duality between Primordial Chaos and His existence (Creation Story ) which gave birth to the concept of nonexistence that Giratina embodies.

Abstract Existence + Nonexistence Type 2 devoid of Aspects Type 1,2, 3 and 5


Completely absent from the Duality of the multiverse and that Primordial Chaos. If you paid attention to the Spirit Story, the undivided state of the multiverse where everything blended and humans and Pokémon were the same existence existed within itself, it's independent of even that Chaos and rather contains it within himself in a state of being in everything as well as absent from anything. Paradoxical existence to everything in the Pokémon reality

Again that only scales to the entire multiverse of pokemon and not within the Arceus Realm. so despite that transduality and NEP it would be on a 4D plane. because none in the Arceus Realm exist to actually prove his nonexistence nor those duality extends up to that level. only his creation by creating it

Arceus Realm is 5D. Arceus hax doesn't scale to it beyond 5D creation. Which DT analysed and disagreed

fair point I probably misunderstood it then

This is irrelevant to the Original Spirit. He's just containing the multiverse in his mind

yes the 4D multiverse not the Arceus realm

Funny. The OS created Arceus when there was nothing. Primordial Undifferentiated Emptiness beyond anything except himself . Not even the concept of nonexistence. What makes you think removing him from the past, present and future will do anything to it when they didn't even exist when he thought Arceus into existence.

That's the thing. Cosmos exist beyond the Space-time of Sky-realm and treats it as mere ripples in the dimension of precipice which she has created and chronicled. Hence only her avatar manifested as her will was part of the History that was shown with Lucifer. yet Captain was able to make her a thing of the past likely due to the fact that despite her being unbound from Sky-realm's multiverse past present and future, she is still bound within Astral Realm's Past present, and future which exists as a 5D universe with a higher history. Similarly to what you said Otherworld and the entirety of Chaos is also a 5D structure from which the painting (Sky-realm Astral Realm).

and guess what. Bahamut's Godly power is neither Providence which defines conventional existence and non-existence, otherworldly which is beyond the conventional existence of Providence and was confirmed twice. Etemenanki is a Structure beyond Astral Realm, Crimson Horizon/Otherworld and Sky-realm and exist unbound by it

 

[Sniper670]

Could you send me the Arceus image in full?

It looks neat

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

Could you send me the Arceus image in full?

It looks neat

its too massive i have to use shrunk down in this thread. here it is (pixiv btw just a warning)

 

[Sniper670]

Again that only scales to the entire multiverse of pokemon and not within the Arceus Realm. so despite that transduality and NEP it would be on a 4D plane. because none in the Arceus Realm exist to actually prove his nonexistence nor those duality extends up to that level. only his creation by creating it

Everything exists within the Spirit. There's nothing outside of it. If chaos is inside of it, then why should Arceus dimension be outside of it. It's literally why the multiverse expands as it grows/enriches
He literally thought Arceus into existence within himself

This should make the OS 6D

yes the 4D multiverse not the Arceus realm

Explained as above

That's the thing. Cosmos exist beyond the Space-time of Sky-realm and treats it as mere ripples in the dimension of precipice which she has created and chronicled. Hence only her avatar manifested as her will was part of the History that was shown with Lucifer. yet Captain was able to make her a thing of the past likely due to the fact that despite her being unbound from Sky-realm's multiverse past present and future, she is still bound within Astral Realm's Past present, and future which exists as a 5D universe with a higher history. Similarly to what you said Otherworld and the entirety of Chaos is also a 5D structure from which the painting (Sky-realm Astral Realm).

So it's not going to affect the Original Spirit then. Since there's no history outside of him. Theres no time nor space outside of him

What matters here, is in whats state the multiverse was when the OS created Arceus. And it was Chaos. Nothing at all.

and guess what. Bahamut's Godly power is neither Providence which defines conventional existence and non-existence, otherworldly which is beyond the conventional existence of Providence and was confirmed twice. Etemenanki is a Structure beyond Astral Realm , Crimson Horizon/Otherworld and Sky-realm and exist unbound by it

None of this speaks of Nonexistence Physiology on a level even deeper than chaos. The closest thing was the Etenemanki , and it was more of a location rather than an existence. The OS is paradoxical to everything and lacks all aspects except 4

If you can't affect the Spirit, how do you want to stop him from recreating Arceus?

 

[theultimate5105]

5D Fate and Causality Negs that work against Type 4 acausal. Captain choose not to believe in those outcomes and they will be negated. She can also use this even if erased across all of time

also, the negs can also EE someone conceptually

Arceus is beyond baseline type 4 acasuality
Also Arceus’s dimension is actually 5-D
And Spirit as of right now is beyond baseline 5-D

 

[Sniper670]

The Original Spirit should be 6D.

Prior to the existence of all things, the Heart was the Primordial Consciousness which contained within itself everything in an undivided state. Everything exists within the Spirit, and the world only expands as it enriches. This will include, at the very least the infinite sized multiverse, Distortion World and Arceus realm. The Pokémon Reality is a result of cognition manifesting from inside the Heart, thus, the multiverse remains a product of cognition

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

And Spirit as of right now is beyond baseline 5-D

any CRT or explanation page where this was accepted? idk what the spirit is tbh

None of this speaks of Nonexistence Physiology on a level even deeper than chaos. The closest thing was the Etenemanki , and it was more of a location rather than an existence. The OS is paradoxical to everything and lacks all aspects except 4

Etemenanki is the Structure that Omnipotent created that exist beyond Otherworld where Astral and Sky God came from
Bahamut is the Sky-God.
Beelzebub used chaos to reformed himself and became NEP Type 2 nature
as for the xplanation
AStrals power of creation is turning nonexistence to existence
zero to one. that creation also allowed them to create this thing

We have one primal beast Avatar who specifically has this power. which Beelzebub referred to as the power of the void after he absorbed his essence and shade after his core was split in half and was destroyed by Bahamut's power.

Creation and Destruction are the fundamental concepts that create everything in the Verse. Often referred to as Sky-Realm's Core and Astral Power. It is neither zero nor one nor nothing or something. Astral Power holds no sway over it and it is incompatible or even weakens Astral Powers if not outright counters it unlike Sky-realm's Core or Sky Essence which are the state of nonexistence after it was destroyed or reduced to nothing by Destruction which is the 0 that Astral can turn to 1. thus I believe they are Nature Type 2

Chaos is often used interchangeably as Otherworldly power as Chaos originated from Otherworldly creatures who possess those properties that create chaos. it was even stated that Chaos and its material form that Beelzebub manage to procure are created from the thoughts of otherworldly being congealed into a crystal coating Beelzebub's spear. but the properties of chaos are also present within Otherworldly beings. it is the power to overturn Providence that holds sway over everything that the Omnipotent has Created capable of eroding it and returning it into a form of nonexistent that is different from the nothingness that the destruction half of Omnipotent has created

Otherworld has no soul, here is why

Otherworldly beings do not possess any form of the soul as they are already dead or do not exist as otherworldly beings are merely taking the form of the memories and data of those who perished and moved on to the afterlife and tries to capture those who border between life and death. thus they lack soul

they have no information

Aside from that. They do not contain any form of information to make up their reality that ellis even with Hyperdimensional perception cannot see any information about them and they do not function on any preexisting framework of reality thus they lack information furthermore Ellis hyperdimensional perception is being able to perceive T axis which is the time dimension seeing how he also wasn't able to see any form of history or time from the target they are most likely nonexistent in history or do not possess any form of Spatial or Temporal properties

EDIT:
Furthermore. Wardant, a being who claimed to be the one who brought chaos to Crimson Horizon, cannot be analyzed by Kenji, and any attempt to do so not only invaded Kenji but also almost killed him and his Circuit despite it being unaffected even if the space it occupies is interfered with physically.
Furthermore in Spaghetti Syndrome, The Scalpel which Grace used to repeatedly cut off Otherworldly flesh started coating it with chaos similar to Beelzebub's Spear. and Isaac further added that this chaos even against beings who runs under information and data

and mindless

They also do not have any form of mind in their purest form but because they are mostly utilized by entities with consciousness unless created as a tool like Otherworldly river who needs someone to utilize its ability else it will only freely rampage. Otherworldly beings who possess a mind of their own possess a core to make it up similar to primal beast. but unlike primal beast, they are unnecessary for them to exist and fight. and for them to completely kill it Lyria needed to summon Bahamut.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

The Original Spirit should be 6D.

tbh Etemenanki should be 6D too. but I don't wanna push a CRT that relies in vagueness.

Arceus is beyond baseline type 4 acasuality

so is Cosmos or captain.
Baseline Acausality is Primal Beast
Then Otherworldly being
Then Captain
Then The Speakers
Then Sky-god (Bahamut) and Astral God

But Bahamut can still affect Captain's Fate and Causality.


will reply to rebuttal some other time I have to go

 

[theultimate5105]

any CRT or explanation page where this was accepted? idk what the spirit is tbh

Etemenanki is the Structure that Omnipotent created that exist beyond Otherworld where Astral and Sky God came from
Bahamut is the Sky-God.
Beelzebub used chaos to reformed himself and became NEP Type 2 nature
as for the xplanation
AStrals power of creation is turning nonexistence to existence
zero to one. that creation also allowed them to create this thing



Otherworld has no soul, here is why

they have no information

and mindless

Arceus’s dimension exists as a thought in the spirits mind and It is beyond his range (so needs to be beyond baseline)

also even Giratina has no mind or soul, those aren’t even close to being relevant

Also for Acasuality Captain seems more on the level of Layers of The distortion world/True Giratina

 

[Sniper670]

any CRT or explanation page where this was accepted? idk what the spirit is tbh

That's the True Form of Arceus.

Heart /Spirit

Etemenanki is the Structure that Omnipotent created that exist beyond Otherworld where Astral and Sky God came from
Bahamut is the Sky-God.
Beelzebub used chaos to reformed himself and became NEP Type 2 nature
as for the xplanation
AStrals power of creation is turning nonexistence to existence
zero to one. that creation also allowed them to create this thing

Arceus is Omnipotent as well. Nothing new
I don't understand the cosmology. Sorry.

None of the things you're saying speaks of Nonexistence, except for Belzebub. So I'm not sure where you're getting at
The Etenemanki isn't nonexistent. It's just located elsewhere

Otherworld has no soul, here is why

they have no information

and mindless

And how would this affect the Original Spirit?

Nep 2 on a deeper level than chaos?

These guys aren't even NEP 2

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

That's the True Form of Arceus.

Heart /Spirit

Arceus is Omnipotent as well. Nothing new
I don't understand the cosmology. Sorry.

None of the things you're saying speaks of Nonexistence, except for Belzebub. So I'm not sure where you're getting at
The Etenemanki isn't nonexistent. It's just located elsewhere


And how would this affect the Original Spirit?

Nep 2 on a deeper level than chaos?

These guys aren't even NEP 2

They are beelzebub got nep 2 from them.
And like it states Etemenanki isnt non existent but is neither otherworldly (nep2 ) nor worldly that both do not affect it at all yet can affect both. He also encompasses both.

Omnipotent is a name.

Arceus’s dimension exists as a thought in the spirits mind and It is beyond his range (so needs to be beyond baseline)

also even Giratina has no mind or soul, those aren’t even close to being relevant

Also for Acasuality Captain seems more on the level of Layers of The distortion world/True Giratina

Distortion world isn't 5D. Captain Acausality is 5D because he is an irregular even to Astral Realm.
Chaos/Otherworld are irregular to astral Realm because even Astral powers of creation and origination are ineffective.

Can't really understand the arceus dimension being inside the spirits mind nor the scans for it so i cannot comment further than that. But since this is a battle against his avatar.
Can the avatar travel dimensionally outside a 5D realm? If not BFR to Crimson Horizon or a dimensionless realm without substance via Bahamut should work. 10:00 timestamp.

 

[theultimate5105]

They are beelzebub got nep 2 from them.
And like it states Etemenanki isnt non existent but is neither otherworldly (nep2 ) nor worldly that both do not affect it at all yet can affect both. He also encompasses both.

Omnipotent is a name.

Distortion world isn't 5D. Captain Acausality is 5D because he is an irregular even to Astral Realm.
Chaos/Otherworld are irregular to astral Realm because even Astral powers of creation and origination are ineffective.

Can't really understand the arceus dimension being inside the spirits mind nor the scans for it so i cannot comment further than that. But since this is a battle against his avatar.
Can the avatar travel dimensionally outside a 5D realm? If not BFR to Crimson Horizon or a dimensionless realm without substance via Bahamut should work. 10:00 timestamp.

Basically the metaphysics of Pokemon make it give layers in type 4 for 5-D anyways
Yeah the Avatar travels between his 5-D realm and the rest of the Pokemon world

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

Basically the metaphysics of Pokemon make it give layers in type 4 for 5-D anyways
Yeah the Avatar travels between his 5-D realm and the rest of the Pokemon world

Isn't it only creation scales to 5D. Where is this metaphysics being 5D accepted. You keep moving the goal post from distortion world to suddenly 5D metaphysics

 

[theultimate5105]

Isn't it only creation scales to 5D. Where is this metaphysics being 5D accepted. You keep moving the goal post from distortion world to suddenly 5D metaphysics

No more then that scales to 5-D, Physiologies scale to 5-D for the true form and Acasuality type 4 is 5-D for Arceus (Spirit has a higher degree)
Honestly this should have been made later since Arceus is currently undergoing 2 Major CRTs for upgrades

 

[Sniper670]

They are beelzebub got nep 2 from them.
And like it states Etemenanki isnt non existent but is neither otherworldly (nep2 ) nor worldly that both do not affect it at all yet can affect both. He also encompasses both.

That's not nonexistent physiology. From DT

Nature Type 2 does not explicitely require such, but that is because not just any non-dual state is required, but specifically a nondual state of nothingness. We are talking about characters that do not exist, not even in the ordinary binary state of nonexistence, but instead in an even deeper sense. As the page notes such characters would of course often have transduality. After all, affecting an aspect of a character that behaves nonexistent will usually be impossible by regular means. However, those aren't random nondual characters. They need specific showings of a nature of nothingness for this, which go beyond basic nonexistence. Not all nondual characters have showings of such nature. (not even all transdual characters would have NEP Nature Type 2)

Key Nondual state of Nonexistence. I'm yet to see Nonexistent physiology on a deeper level than NEP 2

 

[Sniper670]

In fact this puts the entire nep of Granblue verse into question. The ONLY nonexistent being with a statement of nonexistence is chaos. And Primordial chaos doesn't give nep 2 by default. You need to prove that it is a deeper nothingness than conventional Nonexistence

In Pokemon case. From chaos arose Arceus who split the concept of nonexistence from himself. So we know that, chaos is deeper than nonexistence

 

[Chianli]

wtf happened here?

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

wtf happened here?

pokemon fans derailed the thread

 

[Chianli]

pokemon fans derailed the thread

Considerinh what I read, seems likely so.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

That's not nonexistent physiology. From DT

As I said the power is not. but it can affect things with NEP Type 2 for example Beelzebub and his Chaos or the Otherworlders which it also encompasses but is unbound to.

Key Nondual state of Nonexistence. I'm yet to see Nonexistent physiology on a deeper level than NEP 2

Refer to my response above. the power isn't the one that is nonexistent but Beelzebub and the Otherworldly powers. Godly powers from The Speakers and Gods simply encompass even those and yet unbound by it and can affect it and also use it.
and yes it does exist. Graham from Maou exists which has some weird recursion of deeper NEP 2

In fact this puts the entire nep of Granblue verse into question. The ONLY nonexistent being with a statement of nonexistence is chaos. And Primordial chaos doesn't give nep 2 by default. You need to prove that it is a deeper nothingness than conventional Nonexistence

In Pokemon case. From chaos arose Arceus who split the concept of nonexistence from himself. So we know that, chaos is deeper than nonexistence

It exists deeper and more untouchable than the Destruction that exists in Providence which is 0 in the binary of existence while the Astral power of Creation/Origination is 1. and with Avatar being the concept of the void or nothingness in Providence and yet chaos exist beyond and deeper than that as it can also reduce Avatar to nothingness and said nothingness of Avatar is still a product of Astral Power and Sky-realm's core.

No more then that scales to 5-D, Physiologies scale to 5-D for the true form and Acasuality type 4 is 5-D for Arceus (Spirit has a higher degree)
Honestly this should have been made later since Arceus is currently undergoing 2 Major CRTs for upgrades

I'd be willing to wait. but tbh those CRTs are just going in circles.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

Seems like Arceus will remain low 1-C. As for his hax being 5D im not really sure since i lost track of that

 

[Sniper670]

I concede. There's not much Arceus can do here. Granblue stomps.

You can update Arceus position no problem.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

Granblue 2-B rating is being downgraded to 2-C and low 2-C with the new branching timeline standard. So nothing happens

 

[Sniper670]

Oh alright. I just arrived so I didnt know about Granblue situation

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

Basically tier 2 with branching timeline will get gooned unless they can prove timeline independence for each branch

 

[Sniper670]

Interesting. Link to thread?

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

Interesting. Link to thread?

https://vsbattles.com/threads/tier-2-requirements-and-examples-part-2.145939/

 

[Sniper670]

Thanks