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Yogiri can take a 5th spot ?

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I don't understand how you can argue she's within his range and outside of it at the same time.
 
The argument is that she's omnipresent on a larger scale than Yogiri so while she can affect all of him he can't affect all of her.
 
The argument is that she's omnipresent on a larger scale than Yogiri so while she can affect all of him he can't affect all of her.
I don't get how that makes sense though.

I mean, if someone is the size of a planet, does that mean death hax with 100 kilometer range wouldn't kill them in SBA?

Of course not.
 
I don't see "Yogiri also has high fate value" anywhere in the first.
Seems like I'll have to give some context for you


Takatou Yogiri’s like him, you can’t kill an existence whose destiny value is high. (Aoi) -V2
“Yes. In order to kill the existence that is protected by fate, we must use destiny. Just trying to kill him in a blatant way is no good. That is, if he dies here, the surroundings will get more dramatic and rouse up. Fate prefers more interesting situations. I will create a situation where his death is more interesting. (Aoi) -V2
 
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The only reason he can't effect her is because she's too far away. If her law IS her, then she's within his range and can therefore be hit by ID.
ID can, at best, delayed the effects even if just for a moment. Madoka Law will eventually overcome ID with sheer potency. ID trying to prevent Madoka's Law is like a car trying to overpower a train. You gotta affects Madoka entirely to fully negate her Law, which ID cannot do.
 
I just don't agree, and don't see a reason to.

Large size doesn't protect you from hax all of a sudden. It's never worked like that.
 
It isn't what the quote says tho, it says "For example, Oda Nobunaga, an existence with high fate value like him is hard to kill", and it continues talking about Nobunaga until the end, it never compares Nobunaga to Yog.
With added context; Aoi is talking about Yogiri being an existence of high fate value and how she could get rid of him. Which turns out to be wrong as his fate is beyond what she thought it was.
 
I mean, the name Yogiri isn't there, there is no explicit mention to him in the entire thing, how i would know "an opponent with high fate value" means "Yogiri" and not just "an opponent with high fate value" when i never read that story?
 
Because the manga for some reason decided to omit his name and just used the part where Aoi referred to him as "he" or "him

The novel's quotes are better for this part tbh.
 
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I just don't agree, and don't see a reason to.

Large size doesn't protect you from hax all of a sudden. It's never worked like that.
Neither do I agree with ID protecting Yogiri from something far more powerful than what he has faced before. Especially when a mere side effect from Ultimate Kriemhild Gretchen can gives birth to a Multiversal threat like Avatar of Calamity when the actual effect is just to corrupt Wraith (Puella Magi Madoka Magica), beings tailor made by Madoka herself to take on the negative emotions, that it left unchecked could destroy the universe.

When it comes to Abstract Existence the size of Multiverse or bigger, large size will indeed protect you from some degree of hax though. This is how it works ever since even before the forum move.
 
Also, the Madoka profiles are out of date. Gretchen's still uses "physical" and "complete" to describe her NEP and her Acausality type isn't specified but should likely be the same as Madoka's.
 
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Concept type 2 working on type 5 acasuals is very dubious. Just because it transcends reality and Acasality type 5 transcends cause and effect. That just means concept works on stuff it transcends.

Not really relevant here though.
 
Iirc Yogiri 4D feats is only vs Heavenly Record.
Actually not the case. 2-A comes from statements of Instant Death being capable of destroying everything. Including infinite Heavenly Records.

Heavenly Records themselves being capable of containing multiple timelines.
 
Homura is even worse since her Law manip outclassed Madoka in potency. And I don't need to remind you about mindhax.
Yeah. Since this is for the strongest I already suggested Homura who has clear feats against acausal type 5. But Madoka works too i guess.
 
Actually not the case. 2-A comes from statements of Instant Death being capable of destroying everything. Including infinite Heavenly Records.

Heavenly Records themselves being capable of containing multiple timelines.
Basically featless?
 
Featless; as-in Yogiri hasn't destroyed the entire Instant Death cosmology? Yes.

It's quite clear that he could if he wanted to though.
 
I mean, change it for Homura then, if type 2 concepts can't interact with type 5 acausals, i don't see how Yogiri can kill Madoka, no matter if he has range or not.
 
I mean, change it for Homura then, if type 2 concepts can't interact with type 5 acausals, i don't see how Yogiri can kill Madoka, no matter if he has range or not.
The argument was never whether or not Madoka could affect Yogiri tho.
 
Hmm, i don't know much about range. But it seems like the reason yogiri lose is because range. I just found something interisting in instant death's CRT. Quota from @Gemstic :

Are you all right with raising the tier of the verse itself to Low 1-C though? (as the 'Sea' is clearly more than infinite times greater than a single (4D) universe: it contains an infinite number of them, and there's also enough gap in between each and every universe in the form of 'void' which is used by beings like HRE to travel through the 'Sea' [->It is to be noted that just the mouth of an HRE alone is big enough to swallow a universe at least, and its body size is big enough to store multiple universes inside. This means that there's at least a gap of multiple universes in between each heavenly record (universe) = a universe is already infinitesimal in size compared to the 'Sea', but the overall size of the 'Sea' is big enough to accomodate even more sets of infinity = The size of a universe is 'at the least' smaller by multiple degrees of 'infinity' in comparison to the 'Sea' = at least Infinitely, Infinitely, Infinitely, Infinitely, Infinitely, Infinitely smaller than 'infinitesimal']) That would affect the 'Range' parameter, even if the AP remains as 2-A (since Yogiri's True Form is omnipresent and exists even in the entire 'Sea' outside the infinite universes).
Well, i just want to ask the expert. Does that affect range or not?
 
Is this " at least Infinitely, Infinitely, Infinitely, Infinitely, Infinitely, Infinitely smaller than 'infinitesimal" something from the novel itself?
 
s this " at least Infinitely, Infinitely, Infinitely, Infinitely, Infinitely, Infinitely smaller than 'infinitesimal" something from the novel itself?
No, but it's more like deduction with how cosmology work in the verse. Just like it was explained, the sea contain infinite heavenly records, where there is gap for being like HRE to wandering around the sea. Not to mention that HRE size mouth alone can devour the entire heavenly record (The universe) And he can contain multiple unvireses with it. Since HRE can wandering around the 'sea' there's is at least gap multiple universes within heavenly records. Hence why the range should be much higher than what it seems. (Well, at least that's what i get from reading the @Gemstic quota, i am not really expert so i ask someone else with more experience).
 
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