Yogiri, 1-A possibly high 1-A

[Reiner04]

Well, you say that the worlds mentioned are mathematical worlds. but why do you say that, what is the context for this in the novel, it has to provide me with something from the novel for me to believe that there is a tegmark multiverse that claims that everything is mathematics. anyway the "possible worlds" comment may be used for ultimate seth, the only thing that supports it in my eyes

? I think you didn't understood what I am saying. All kind of structures are mathematical as long as they comes under physical reality. Type 1, 2, 3, 4 all of them. So it's unnecessary.

 

[Reiner04]

I've seen he's usually very occupied. I wouldn't mind seeing his thoughts, tho. However, I believe he requested not to be called to thread like this? Can be corrected on that.

As far as I am aware, it's more about if we can allow this answer of author as per what has been established in the series or not. Not really Ultima thing.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Maybe it's already proven that universes are mathematical universes and fit the ultimate set or that universes already have mathematical structures, but I'm not a follower of the series so I don't know.

Eh?


This is why I am afraid of derailment because this post is just telling me that he does not know anything about mathematical elements.

 

[AKUTO123]

This type of request is really negative, you need an evidence for dimension or space being mathematical?

This becomes really derailing right now.

The universes of each series are different, the way they handle multiverses and such things is different. In tegmark multiverse theories, the universe is everything but everything consists of mathematics, but according to an author who does not write accordingly, I am just saying that multiverses may not be mathematical universes. because for someone who doesn't read the series, it looks like this crt "ultimate seth passes then mathematical type 4", it doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Ovy7]

You guys are literally handwaving how Type 4 actually works, but whatever, I won't bother anymore. You can make the verse tier 0 for all I care.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Eh? I don't get this man response at all.

 

[AKUTO123]

Eh? I don't get this man response at all.

Actually, I don't understand how I'm doing it. I'm talking about what should or shouldn't be the requirement of being a mathematical type 4 multiverse, which is our topic. if that's not the point of course it's my fault

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Actually, I don't understand how I'm doing it. I'm talking about what should or shouldn't be the requirement of being a mathematical type 4 multiverse, which is our topic. if that's not the point of course it's my fault

Nah, don't worry mate. Dread is just stressed cuz of the length of the discussion.

 

[Antvasima]

I still think that Ovy7 makes the best sense here.

@DontTalkDT @Ultima_Reality

Your input would be appreciated here.

 

[Reiner04]

The universes of each series are different, the way they handle multiverses and such things is different. In tegmark multiverse theories, the universe is everything but everything consists of mathematics, but according to an author who does not write accordingly, I am just saying that multiverses may not be mathematical universes. because for someone who doesn't read the series, it looks like this crt "ultimate seth passes then mathematical type 4", it doesn't make sense to me.

At this point, I would say that this is kinda derailing when it fails to see what is being argued and what needs to be tackled. Every structure is a mathematical structure, it doesn't need to be proven or need a rocket science. I'll suggest to create a QnA for specific queries about types of multiverse or what is mathematical structures but whatever, my point is:

My point is not that it follows Type 4 multiverse "accurately", we have Type 3 multiverse being followed by many fictional stories but yet not give them High 1B for that, my point is, the answer by author definitely match the context of the verse, has been supported and so, shouldn't be disregarded or ignore it, he is not spouting anything by himself without it being supported in the novel. The structure to have no property of Dimensions and lacks Dimensions entirely (a kind of structure that is one of reason for type 4 multiverse to scale so high), has been stated to exist by author, so it should if novel allows the establishment for them to exist (Type 4).

 

[PrinceofPein]

Eh? I don't get this man response at all.

His response is that you claim the verse is a type 4 multoverse, and type 4 is a tier 0 rating, so this is not 1-A but rather tier 0 upgrade

I think that scan rather states about how ultimate ensemble have a group of worlds that is convenient for God's to have such characteristics that is of few in those particular worlds and observe them, not that they're world themselves. Given description by that author to have worlds with entire different property that is common sense to us (space with no property of Dimensions) is indeed present in novel.

I really do not get this, but send the chapter number

 

[Darksmash]

I agree with Ovy7

 

[Fixxed]

Well i read the previous thread, the author use the higher dimensional for the hierarchy of the sea not for universe or each universe or parallel world

And with that QnA, author says dimension is only specific element of one universe, so i dont think the dimension that the author mention in QnA is same dimension in what the novel mention

What the context of "dimension" in here that author mention in QnA?

Well i still not get answer of my question. The context of dimension in novel and in QnA is different i think

Also the author pretty strict for answer the simple question

Yeah i'm leaning to ovy7 and pein for now

 

[Reiner04]

I really do not get this, but send the chapter number

V14, good morning oni chan.

His response is that you claim the verse is a type 4 multoverse, and type 4 is a tier 0 rating, so this is not 1-A but rather tier 0 upgrade

Imo, establishing the possibilities of variation in structures that goes as far as to different set of laws (Not "exactly" following type 4 multiverse) and author adding up the structure to these possibility that is tier 1A should be fine.

 

[ImmortalDread]

His response is that you claim the verse is a type 4 multoverse, and type 4 is a tier 0 rating, so this is not 1-A but rather tier 0 upgrade


I really do not get this, but send the chapter number

I am hearing this for the first time. Type 4 is not absolute tier 0, it could be all way to tier 0 but not necessarily

 

[Ovy7]

It technically should be 0, but we are only giving that if inaccessible cardinals and other set theory stuff are present in the verse.

 

[denisnic55]

Although I am not knowledgeable at all in tier 1 what Ovy7 said makes sense just as much as everyone else. So how about you guys meet in the middle with a "possibly" rating.

 

[Reiner04]

I do think Ovy point is good but can still see 1A or possibly 1A being fine given the scans and elizhaa point.

 

[Wardokman69]

Nice, the possibly 1-A is probably a viable option.

 

[Planck69]

Reading Ovy7s issues more, A "Possibly 1-A" rating could work.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

So, after rereading everything, either of these two should be good:
1-B, possibly 1-A
or
Possibly 1-A

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

So, after rereading everything, either of these two should be good:
1-B, possibly 1-A
or
Possibly 1-A

Last key should 1-B,Possibly 1-A since it involves the cosmology and him being beyond it. No need to create a new one tbh.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Shouldn't UEG and Yogiri's first 1-B key get a possibly low 1-A if the Ultimate Ensemble is fine to use?

 

[Abstractly_a_Protagonist]

Shouldn't UEG and Yogiri's first 1-B key get a possibly low 1-A if the Ultimate Ensemble is fine to use?

UEG, yes.
Yogiri, I don't see why his power wouldn't scale to true form which is 1-A.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Um based on the profile itself Yogiri uses his True Form's power in both keys, so he'd still be 1-A

 

[Likelytierzero]

So where is the place for HRE if UEG is possible low 1A .

 

[Rose_of_Ragnarok]

Does Yogiri get any additional hax if this is accepted, or just his AP gets upgraded?

 

[ImmortalDread]

As far as I am aware, his death manipulation is equalivent to his AP.

 

[Abstractly_a_Protagonist]

Does Yogiri get any additional hax if this is accepted, or just his AP gets upgraded?

This is just about AP.

So where is the place for HRE if UEG is possible low 1A .

Still 2-B. Those fishes is fodder to Higher Gods, especially to UEG.

 

[Elizhaa]

Infinite dimensions have 0 to do with the Type 4 multiverse. Even a Type 1 multiverse can have infinite dimensions. A Type 4 Multiverse is where everything in it is based on mathematics, and every mathematical principle and possibility can be mapped on a cosmological scale. You need concrete evidence that the multiverse is based on mathematics and all its possibilities (like how The Downstreamers' multiverse is, to continue with the example provided by Elizhaa) for it to qualify for Type 4.

A type 1 multiverse won't get higher than tier 2; if it has valid infinite dimensions, then it isn't a type I multiverse, by definition.

• https://www.space.com/31465-is-our-universe-just-one-of-many-in-a-multiverse.html

The series mentions Ultimate Ensemble twice in the exact raws, not once; the OP should have clarified this point; as stated before, Ultimate Set is basically a synonym, so one could say from the evidence that it is mentioned multiple times.

「……ミツキ様！　あの男の言葉は事実です！　あれは究極集合世界における“例外”の一つです！」

• https://ncode.syosetu.com/n5691dd/293/
• 究極集合世界 (究極集合 - Ultimate Ensemble): https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/数学的宇宙仮説

The raws basically seems to no alternative definitions for 究極集合 besides Ultimate Ensemble; I believe this case isn't one where the japanese raws have multiple contexts, like three or more, and thus require more scrutiny.
Like stated before, if it has more contexts, the ultimate ensemble can reach Tier 0 with higher mathematics. At worst, Ultimate Ensemble would be Low 1-A since it is basically a powerset of infinite (aleph 0) higher-dimensions (type III multiverse), which would have aleph 1 dimensions.

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

Ultimate Ensemble would be Low 1-A since it is basically a powerset of infinite (aleph 0) higher-dimensions (type III multiverse), which would have aleph 1 dimensions.

I agree to this.

 

[NHTkenshin2]

since it is basically a powerset of infinite (aleph 0) higher-dimensions (type III multiverse)

How are Type 3 Multiverses High 1-B?

 

[Fixxed]

How are Type 3 Multiverses High 1-B?

Well... if we take wikipedia as example then...

Tegmark argues that a Level III multiverse does not contain more possibilities in the Hubble volume than a Level I or Level II multiverse. In effect, all the different "worlds" created by "splits" in a Level III multiverse with the same physical constants can be found in some Hubble volume in a Level I multiverse. Tegmark writes that, "The only difference between Level I and Level III is where your doppelgängers reside. In Level I they live elsewhere in good old three-dimensional space. In Level III they live on another quantum branch in infinite-dimensional Hilbert space."

Well in my mind, everything must follow context of the verse

 

[NHTkenshin2]

Well in my mind, everything must follow context of the verse

Thought we already accepted that Hilbert space dimensions are abstract values?

 

[Fixxed]

Thought we already accepted that Hilbert space dimensions are abstract values?

We still use that for get High 1B rating

 

[NHTkenshin2]

Its uhh...abstract?

 

[ImmortalDread]

Do you guys love to derail?

 

[Ovy7]

Yes

 

[Rose_of_Ragnarok]

Yogiri haters are trying to derail so he would stay 1-B

 

[Ren1999]

Bump