Yikes! I suppose even Fuji May Cry after looking at this upgrade CRT

[Random-Helper323]

The "Infinity" seems to be referring to it's an endless time loop. Also just going on the name alone is too vague.

I'm just naming it, but the item description does reference a space-time continuum, it is its own dimension that clearly has a different time flow from everywhere around it, and it is called the Infinity Nirvana.

...Yeah this is all way too weak as far as low 2-C evidence is concerned. It having a unique flow of time isn't enough to establish it as a separate space-time, especially since the DW already has a warped flow of time that could accommodate something like that.

It is a dimension with its own unique and constantly looping time flow, referred to as a space-time continuum.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

I'm just naming it, but the item description does reference a space-time continuum, it is its own dimension that clearly has a different time flow from everywhere around it, and it is called the Infinity Nirvana.

It is a dimension with its own unique and constantly looping time flow, referred to as a space-time continuum.

The item literally just symbolizes the space-time continuum, though... that means literally nothing as far as low 2-C goes. The dimension itself is also never referred to as a space-time continuum

 

[Random-Helper323]

The great tower sank to the depths of the earth and time stopped for the demons and their world.
In some places, the time passes awkwardly around here.
The time of DW has stopped, still time passes differently. I guess this is so called temporal axis. And separate timelines are DW and HW.
And he said "I cannnot stay here very long, for I know my sanity will leave me." I gotta go.

Apologies, I didn't mean to bury your post by turning the page on it.

 

[CurrySenpai]

The item literally just symbolizes the space-time continuum, though... that means literally nothing as far as low 2-C goes. The dimension itself is also never referred to as a space-time continuum

Wouldn't it naturally have to BE a space-time continuum? I feel that's what the scan and video implies and pretending it doesn't is kind of weird.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Wouldn't it naturally have to BE a space-time continuum? I feel that's what the scan and video implies and pretending it doesn't is kind of weird.

No, it would just be an area with a warped flow of time, something which is noted to be quite common in the Demon World. Time is all kinds of ****** up over there, that's hardly a justification for there being entire low 2-C realms embedded inside a bigger universe. The sculpture is also just, totally irrelevant. It merely represents something, as statues tend to do. Doesn't indicate anything about the nature of where the sculpture is found.

 

[Deagonx]

Here's two hastily made MS Paint drawings that give a visual:

• Different temporal directions
• Seperate multiversal existences

The example given in the OP is neither.

This is Da Vinci-esque.

Anyways, @Planck69, do you have any thoughts on this? If the disagreement is over what the evidence is telling us, that's one thing, but if we still have a disagreement about what the standard even is, then we should probably create a staff thread to resolve it.

The great tower sank to the depths of the earth and time stopped for the demons and their world.
In some places, the time passes awkwardly around here.
The time of DW has stopped, still time passes differently. I guess this is so called temporal axis. And separate timelines are DW and HW.
And he said "I cannnot stay here very long, for I know my sanity will leave me." I gotta go.

This is clarified in the Tiering System FAQ:

Things like timelines having time that passes at different rates would not qualify, as even the theory of general relativity already establishes that with just one regular time dimension time can flow at different rates in different places. Time flowing backwards in another universe would also not qualify it to have an additional time dimension, as it would still use the same directions of past and future as regular time, just with events playing out in reverse. For the same reasons, statements about independent time streams or of separate kinds of time, which could flow parallel to the original time, would not qualify.
Neither would dimensions that are timeless voids or are described as beyond spacetime in general qualify.

We require different direction of time entirely, not simply two realms with different flows of time, but which still have the same orientation/are parallel to each other.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Well I am back again, free and currently downloading RDR2, so why not give this thread a go since I was told to look at it. I was going to type a reply but everything was already covered.
And like the oppositions have said, I agree with them. So I disagree with this thread premise surrounding tier 2 as it does not work like that.

 

[Qawsedf234]

We require different direction of time entirely, not simply two realms with different flows of time, but which still have the same orientation/are parallel to each other.

If the two realms occupy the same physical space and time still flows irregularly or it's erased on one are but not the other, it could be an indication of two temporal axis.

Like how technically a R>F cosmology would require at least two temporal axis to function.

 

[Deagonx]

If the two realms occupy the same physical space and time still flows irregularly or it's erased on one are but not the other, it could be an indication of two temporal axis.

They are physically separate, but within the same cosmology. Time was stopped for one but not the other with magic.

 

[Qawsedf234]

They are physically separate, but within the same cosmology. Time was stopped for one but not the other with magic.

Yeah that wouldn't count then.

 

[SuperSonicTL]

"Fuji, who would win between you and the DMC supporters?"
---
"If they brought out the hypertimeline arguments, they might give me a bit of trouble."
---
"But would you lose?"
---

Including this is very odd, since it is both not particularly relevant to the thread and also seems to contradict it at points; The Human World being the reflection of the Demon World would kill any notion of one world being infinitely superior to the other. Still, the OP seems to recognize this point is irrelevant, so let's move on.

Sorry for pointing this out but Its really hilarious how you just assumed it would be talking regarding the size instead of nature but its your schtick in every thread you've ever been soo i can't blame you for such mindset.

Ah, this old scan again. My worst enemy. Thankfully, no new arguments have been presented since last time, so this won't take very long. Allow me to copy/paste my original debunk from the downgrade thread, which was mostly reliant on quoting the standards from our current (as of 6/5/2024, anyways) tiering FAQ:

Now now lets stop right there!​

This, right here, tells me you didn't even bothered to read the blog i posted below... But since you didn't, let me make it do it for you but before that first lets see the context of me posting that statement on the CRT:

But don't let this fool you into thinking that both realms are comparable to eachother.

For clarity sake (that you didn't followed just recently), i made it clear that the realms are not compared due to their size but rather their nature, the duality of the primordial reality as we know it.

Demon World is the very product of the primordial universe which gave birth to Human World as one of its aspects in the the first place. Yeah that's right, the whole space-time continuum of the Human World is basically a part of Demon World before Pluto decided to be a lil bitch about it and yeet the thing out of the whole reality for stability's sake.

Now... Here I'm going to start the real argumentation for my vision.

The reason why i brought "Ray of Light" in an "Infinite/Endless Darkness" is to give an idea that Demon World is the original Darkness (The primordial universe) in which a very unique realm suddenly was born which we call Human World. With how different the nature of these two (inner and outer) realms were in comparison to eachother, the very border of the primordial world (Demon World) was in a state of constant chaos and to end this chaos, the Demon King of that time, Pluto, decided to separate the thing away from Demon Realm.

Now Human World is no different then any other inner realm when it comes to being a space-time continuum. But why is it soo special and considered a totally different realm in comparison to all other inner realms of Demon World and the multiversal structure itself is due to it having a different flow of time and laws in comparison to any other inner realm which suggests that this is indeed spatially and temporally different then any other realms of Demon World and thus would be its own structure that opposes other sibling universal structures. This is further proven correct by Peak of Mid when Lily was explaining the nature of realms within Demon World in comparison to Human World by having different rules of space and time alike.

Heck lets even ignore this one. I wanna bring in Nirvana dimensions as a way of convincing you and everyone who is reading this CRT discussions.

Among all other Nirvana realms we seen throughout DMC3, one of the Nirvana dimension was stated to be Infinite/Endless as well as being a space-time continuum that aren't effected by the temporal resetting of another Nirvana dimension and you need portals to traverse among all these Nirvana realms.

So to conclude this part, lets have a list of all the requirements we need:

• Infinite sized Dimensions
• Being a space-time continuum
• Spatially and Temporally different
• Needs portals to traverse through them
• Different laws in comparison to one another
• Part of the Demon World
• Demon World in its totality being infinite

Soo all in all, we have all the basic needs to assume the space that doesn't allow these infinitely sized realms with different flow of time to connect with eachother in any way possible should be fifth dimensional which would be the Darkness, the primordial universe, Demon World itself.

Therefore:

This is fine. If this was the only paragraph describing low 1-C, DMC would qualify if you buy the ray of light thing. But the requirements for tier 1 don’t stop there:

That’s where we run into qualitative superiority, which has a few interesting caveats to it:

Right off the bat, it’s made clear that being countably infinitely greater than a low 2-C space is not enough; Rather, you need to go one step beyond that. The DW has no statements or implications that’d place it above countable infinity in terms of its size difference when compared to the HW.

Here, it’s yet again stated that an infinite difference is not enough to qualify for qualitative superiority; Instead, the difference is reliant on things such as R > F difference (not relevant here), and a difference in dimensionality. Now the obvious issue is that the ray of light statement doesn’t really go into too much detail, which makes it impossible for us to go “yeah sure it’s talking about higher dimensions”.

And then we wrap right back around to most statements of superiority, even those referring to infinite gaps above infinity, are simply not enough to qualify.

As you can plainly see, just being vaguely infinitely greater than a low 2-C space is not in fact sufficient to reach low 1-C levels of power. We have blatant rules in place to prevent a vague “infinitely larger than” statement from upgrading an entire verse to low 1-C. Take the ray of light statement as you will, it’s way too vague to assume it’s referring to dimensionality and not just size (or literally any other metric of measurement that people tend to think of before higher dimensions). The nature of this superiority is simply not elaborated on in any other DMC content; Taking it as qualitative superiority by default is a massive reach, especially since it’s just one statement.

Is reusing an argument from a months-old thread lazy? Sure, but then again, the OP didn't bother updating their arguments to account for the previous thread, so why should I?

Furthermore, I'd like to quote Ultima's assessment on the matter:

He is 100% correct here; The "ray of light" analogy does not concretely establish a size difference between the light and darkness, let alone a difference so extreme that it could only be accounted for using higher spatial dimensions.

The last scan is used to justify that the Human World is but a mere fraction of the Demon World. I... think this might be a case of a mislabeled scan? Because all that's said is the following:

Needless to say, this makes no mention of the HW's status relative to the DW.

My genuine, unadulterated, sophisticated, chadpilled reaction to all this yapping right here:

Despite having "many scans", none of these scans are particularly compelling when it comes to explaining why low 2-C realms are embedded in the DW. First scan is easy; It's just a mention of the Demon World having "realms" with no elaboration as to their size, whether or not they're separate space-times, or anything that'd support low 2-C. Is them being in the east supposed to be notable? The second album is a collection of screenshots from PoC showing various locations with space-like skies, with Dante offhandedly mentioning a "room" with a starry sky. Again, no context; These realms would be 4-A at best, and miss the benchmark requirement of 3-A size or higher needed for a realm to qualify as low 2-C. They also miss the other benchmark requirement for low 2-C, that being the establishment of a separate flow of time; Nothing says or shows that these realms are spatio-temporally separate from the Demon World. The "infinite in size" thing is questionable, because nothing says this realm is in the Demon World. It's just referred to as a "special pocket dimension" with no elaboration on where it comes from, where it lies in the greater cosmology, or anything at all, really.

I answered most of these questions already but lemme make some corrections here:

• My first scan tells that Underworld contains all the realms within it aka every realm we seen throughout the series is a part of Underworld.
• My second scan showcases some of many realms of Underworld we gone through in the main story mode let alone the side stories.
• The Void (or pocket dimension as you interpreted it) has to be talking about one of the many realms within Underworld coz the director of the franchise, Itsuno, made it clear that the entire cosmology (The Timeline) of the DMC only includes two worlds which are Human World and Demon World.

That being said, Demon World clearly by logical standards acts as a Multiverse for these smaller worlds so it should be at the very very VERY least be insignificant 5D space which shouldn't be a problem later down the line as I'm gonna explain the reason in the upcoming section.

The 6D point is where any sense of cohesion this thread once had begins to break down. Let's start with the more simple problem; This isn't how math works. A universe is made up of 4 dimensions, as per our own definition of the term - 3 dimensions are spatial and one is temporal. The OP is suggesting that the Demon World has an additional spatial axis that contains countless realms, so we add that extra dimension onto our hypothetical total to get 4 spatial dimensions, and one temporal dimension, making for 5 dimensions overall (3 + 1 + 1 = 5 [citation needed]). And then we add the Demon World's temporal dimension to get 6 dimensions.... hey, wait a second. An astute observer would notice that we already accounted for the Demon World's temporal dimension in our initial tally (the one that gave us 5 dimensions). So where's this new, 6th dimension coming from? Moving onto the actual justifications, the first scan used to defend this claims to be about Sparda sealing the flow of time, but that doesn't mean there's a second time dimension on the DW; Just that there was one that Sparda froze. Being called a timeline doesn't mean much, either. Time exists there, sure, but I'm confused at how this is supposed to mean there are two separate time dimensions.

I'm going on this highlighted part here since this is where the justification actually comes. Now, i do admit one thing here Fuji, throughout all the fransico madness, this part was really bothersome for me to find further supporting evidences for it but i digress... Why? Coz this on its own already proves that the Demon World should have its own temporal axis that engulfs everything within it. As we know, Sparda throughout the entire lore of DMC was the one that sealed off the Underworld from Human World.

Him sealing Underworld had one more effect over the outer realm which was sealing its flow of time. The scan i provided says:

The great tower sank to the depths of the earth and time stopped for the demons and their world.

"Their world" implying the singular realm, Demon World, had its time stopped by Sparda as a side effect of its sealing soo you're correct here. There was indeed one which was Demon World's temporal dimension in totality that engulfs all the temporal dimensions that are hilariously different from one another. Whereas Peak of Mid just supports it by outright calling it a Chaos Timeline as another synonym of Demon World especially given throughout the gameplay, there was no mention of Demon World or Underworld through the talks. Just Chaos Timeline... That's all.

Oh, and let's not forget that "countless" dimensions is completely made up. That number is not stated or implied anywhere, so I don't know why the OP included it.

Well the general idea was everytime we go into Underworld, new to new realms spawns out of nowhere. So much so that i lost the count of how many are there so i just assume there are countless realms here.

Not that it matters coz what I'm arguing here has to do 0% with the amount of dimensions in the Underworld so take that with a grain of salt.

Ooh, this one is nice and easy. Thanks! The first statement is wrong on two fronts. First of all, the scan doesn't say Hellfilth transcends time and space; Rather, that she "wanders beyond" them. Simply leaving space-time doesn't prove that one is higher-dimensional, or that there is the existence of a higher dimension out there somewhere. Even if the scan said she "transcended" space-time, that still wouldn't be usable! To quote our old friend the tiering FAQ again:

Wow, that's a lot of words! But they all basically boil down to "transcending space-time isn't low 1-C unless you have an imperial fuckton of extra context". And remember, this is all assuming Hellfilth does transcend space-time, when the scan doesn't even say that.

The context is there Fuji... You just didn't bothered to look at it... Soo lets take another look on what the scan says here:

The spirit wandering beyond time and space

The spirit (Helfilth) in this case scenario, is in a space that transcends space and time in comparison to all other weird realms we went through but this realm alone was considered special due to its specific nature aka the Nightmares. "Nightmares" did something rang? Yeah the nightmares which are stated to be metaphysical in nature as well as even blatantly stated to be transcendental by DMC5 game description and DMC3 guidebook respectively. This nature of dreams (nightmares) had dream version of Lady keeping up with Helfilth herself and even defeated her.

That being said, the part where you said that it means she would be simply leaving the space-time but where exactly may i ask?

Yup the Demon World itself which roundabout ends up supporting the fifth spatial axis for her to wander beyond space and time while being within one in the first place (which, again, isn't true given she is usually in her domain/realm most of the time but you get the idea).

The Mundus stuff is in a similar position; Simply being outside of time and space is nowhere near enough for an extra dimension, though I'd like to call attention to another facet of those scans; The OP claims two scans solidify his realm as being infinite, when the actual quotes say it is merely infinitely/endlessly expanding. This implies it is merely growing without an upper limit, not that it is already infinite.

Its just another perspective of looking at the statement. Outside of time can be taken as being outside of your usual temporal reaches and inside Demon World at that so at the end, it would just be another case for 5D realm.

Also since you touched on the infinite part, the infinitely expending universe also from another perspective would be just that it is infinite no matter how far you go through it. But again, its just one of the two examples i gave soo meh.

Now i wanna bring one more 5D realm which would be Mirror World itself. This world was obviously stated to reflect our world but things are more complicated then you think it would be.

Not only does the realm is stated to transcend space-time but it has its own flow of time as well on top of that soo you will get another 5D inner realms by the end of the day. Furthermore, the God of Time and Space who is stated to know all about the past and is omniscient who is also stated to both be the watcher of time and to have the power to control time has no power within the mirror world and is viewed as nothing more than an illusion.

Ah, now this one is interesting. I'll avoid evaluating this as a legitimate hypertimeline and whether or not it fits out standards for one for reasons that will soon become clear. To summarize what the OP is speaking of here, they are insistent that in the DMC 2 novelization, Dante visits an alternate timeline. This timeline contains the Human and Demon Worlds simultaneously, despite their established spatio-temporal separation. In other words, there is a timeline with other timelines embedded within it, with those timelines never intersecting in any way.

In other words, the proposed "hypertimeline" would look something like this (pardon my lack of artistic skills):

Now, let's examine this proposed model with a more scrutinizing eye. These events occur during the Devil May Cry Volume 2 novel. As stated by the OP, the novel takes place in an alternate timeline where Mundus was successful in his war against the humans, causing the Demon World to subsume the Human World. This is equated to merging the two worlds together. Even outside of the novelization and Mundus' plan, the consequences of such an event are made apparent. Numerous characters make reference to or have the ability to merge the DW and HW together; It's practically the central conflict of the series at this point. So why does the OP insist that the two realms are separate, when the novel goes through great pains to explain that they were successfully merged together?

This becomes even stranger when looking deeper at DMC's current cosmology and profiles. The main basis of 2-C scaling stems from beings merging these two realms together; In order for this to be a 2-C feat at all, they must be merged on a temporal level as well, not just spatial. The natural consequence of that is that the two would share the same flow of time, and would be considered the same timeline by extension. And if they're the same timeline, then the OP's entire point falls apart. No higher-dimensional time flow is needed to compensate for the two realms sharing the same timeline. It is very strange to me that, after years of pushing for these feats to get accepted, DMC supporters are now insistent that they aren't valid at all, simply because their validity would outright debunk the notion of a higher-dimensional timeline. But enough about that. What would this more accurate model look like?

So what does this all mean? If the Human World and Demon World are merged, then they would by definition share the same timeline. There is no "greater timeline" embedding both; They are only in this interconnected state because Mundus basically glued them together. The existence of a hypertimeline is not needed to explain this chain of events, because the novel already explains it in a way that is not only consistent with the 2-C scaling, but is in fact integral to it.

In case I didn't get it across clearly enough earlier, allow me to recap: Mundus' plan is to merge the HW and DW together. The Volume 2 novel presents us with an alt timeline where Mundus' plan is successful. Ergo, the alt timeline is just a fusion of the HW and DW.

TL;DR: The entire basis of this point - that the alt timeline Human and Demon Worlds are separate timelines - is explicitly contradicted by the original source and additional context from across the rest of the series.

Ahh my favorite part of the entire argument after the spatial axis of Demon World. So i guess its time to humble you a bit here as well.

First of all, why Human World and Demon World being merged has to do anything here? Them merging or not has to do nothing as they are closer to eachother just separated by literal space-times and the space between them that carries even the entirety of Demon World itself.

That said space is contained by a temporal dimension that branches infinitely and makes up the actual multiverse and lemme clear this point again that Itsuno says there is only Human and Demon World in the entire cosmology, the said cosmology would be the overarching timeline.

Not convinced? Here is one more funny thing... Mundus and his palace exist outside of the flow of time and yet have his alternate versions across the multiverse which suggests that there is indeed another layer of temporal axis coz you can't have alternate versions of yourself across time while being outside of it soo it has to be another higher temporal axis which would be the overarching timeline itself.

Also you talk about merged timeline being a relavent argument when PoC hilariously debunks this notion as it is blatantly stated to be a canon alternate timeline where Human World and Demon World are already separated and has a temporal space between them which, again, would be the space between these worlds and still treated as a singular timeline.

But anyway i let my lawyer @Tony_di_bugalu handle this mess for me as how it was originally planned.

About as straightforward as you can get for 2-A, that's for sure. But what's confusing about this point is that it's being used to justify another dimension off of... basically nothing? There is no standard on the site that can vouch for infinite possibilities being any higher than 2-A. While there is the "infinite knowledge" statement, that's also baffling to me, because that does not require an additional dimension at all. This section makes a lot of dubious claims (impressive for how short it is) and then immediately concludes they must make the verse 10D without ever really explaining why.

Fuji, Fuji and Fuji. The 10D part was never supposed to come from the amount of dimensions but rather the dimension that houses these dimensions which we universally call a "multiverse". My original plan was to release this blog later down the line as from some inner sources i heard that later there will be a revision conducted by someone which would change tier 2 and the way we scale characters to spatial and temporal dimensions.

although i do think it's funny that you say you have "multiple scans" of there being infinite demons yet you only linked one

That's coz you didn't even bothered to check the blog once and went straight for the short listed, summarized version of the arguments thinking you hit a jackpot but you end up stepping on a lego block instead.

And... that's it. Funny, the thread looked a lot longer on my phone. Let's recap, shall we?

• The ray of light thing has been discussed and debunked so many times now that if I have to repeat it one more time I'm gonna [REDACTED].
• The Demon World does not embed any low 2-C realms within itself, and one of the realms cited isn't even part of the DW at all. A simple math error has somehow added an entire dimension to the cosmology because the OP forgot how to count, I guess?
• Being "beyond time and space" is not evidence of higher-dimensionality. Transcending space-time isn't good enough, either.
• The alt timeline in DMC 2 is not a hypertimeline, and is merely a fusion of the HW and DW. This does not require a higher time dimension, and is simply baseline 2-C.
• The multiverse is indeed infinite, but no explanation is given for how this causes the verse to leap up an entire extra dimension. The "infinite knowledge" statement has no correlation to the cosmology at all.

Here is the recap of your recaps:

• Ray of Light? What's that? That was nowhere near what i was actually arguing for lol?
• I didn't forgot to count. It's just that you lack the basic ability to process the simple task of looking into the blog. If you did, you could make a well-informed post with great detail regardless of how much time it would've taken. That would be a good start of the arguments here but instead you decided to rush it like you usually do and what happened? Nothing... Just waste of time and energy.
• Lets see... Being outside of time, metaphysical in nature, transcendental state and beyond space and time itself seems good enough for me to assume 5D realms within Underworld don't know about you.
• You simply just used the previous argument as a basis for this conclusion but for that you have to keep having your footings over the arguments you made beforehand and soo far... The situation doesn't seem good for you all things considered.
• The extra dimension was the space between timelines as we call it a multiverse in simple terms which acts as a range thing rather then a stats stuff given how unreasonable the standards feel for tier 2 personally speaking.

...Needless to say, I ain't convinced, and I certainly hope nobody else here is. In other words, I disagree. By the way, just so this doesn't end up as a 2-A upgrade thread either, even with a 2-A cosmology, there is nobody who scales to it. You'll just have to suffer in silence alongside us Touhou fans and our fuckoff huge cosmology that nobody scales to yet.

Ahh 2hoes. Its been quite a while since i last heard about it but since we are speaking over it, how about you tell me the amount of sequels you played regarding the franchise. I mean... You have time to bump all 5-6 GoW downgrade threads at once simultaneously soo you must be quite free i assume, no?

In case you forgot, Fuji never cries~​

I'm sorry for that part. I take that back actually. It has to be assumed you have pair of eye sockets to weep in the first place generously speaking ofc.

 

[Trigger]

Sorry for pointing this out but Its really hilarious how you just assumed it would be talking regarding the size instead of nature but its your schtick in every thread you've ever been soo i can't blame you for such mindset.

Now now lets stop right there!​

This, right here, tells me you didn't even bothered to read the blog i posted below... But since you didn't, let me make it do it for you but before that first lets see the context of me posting that statement on the CRT:



For clarity sake (that you didn't followed just recently), i made it clear that the realms are not compared due to their size but rather their nature, the duality of the primordial reality as we know it.



Now... Here I'm going to start the real argumentation for my vision.

The reason why i brought "Ray of Light" in an "Infinite/Endless Darkness" is to give an idea that Demon World is the original Darkness (The primordial universe) in which a very unique realm suddenly was born which we call Human World. With how different the nature of these two (inner and outer) realms were in comparison to eachother, the very border of the primordial world (Demon World) was in a state of constant chaos and to end this chaos, the Demon King of that time, Pluto, decided to separate the thing away from Demon Realm.

Now Human World is no different then any other inner realm when it comes to being a space-time continuum. But why is it soo special and considered a totally different realm in comparison to all other inner realms of Demon World and the multiversal structure itself is due to it having a different flow of time and laws in comparison to any other inner realm which suggests that this is indeed spatially and temporally different then any other realms of Demon World and thus would be its own structure that opposes other sibling universal structures. This is further proven correct by Peak of Mid when Lily was explaining the nature of realms within Demon World in comparison to Human World by having different rules of space and time alike.

Heck lets even ignore this one. I wanna bring in Nirvana dimensions as a way of convincing you and everyone who is reading this CRT discussions.

Among all other Nirvana realms we seen throughout DMC3, one of the Nirvana dimension was stated to be Infinite/Endless as well as being a space-time continuum that aren't effected by the temporal resetting of another Nirvana dimension and you need portals to traverse among all these Nirvana realms.

So to conclude this part, lets have a list of all the requirements we need:

• Infinite sized Dimensions
• Being a space-time continuum
• Spatially and Temporally different
• Needs portals to traverse through them
• Different laws in comparison to one another
• Part of the Demon World
• Demon World in its totality being infinite

Soo all in all, we have all the basic needs to assume the space that doesn't allow these infinitely sized realms with different flow of time to connect with eachother in any way possible should be fifth dimensional which would be the Darkness, the primordial universe, Demon World itself.

Therefore:


My genuine, unadulterated, sophisticated, chadpilled reaction to all this yapping right here:



I answered most of these questions already but lemme make some corrections here:

• My first scan tells that Underworld contains all the realms within it aka every realm we seen throughout the series is a part of Underworld.
• My second scan showcases some of many realms of Underworld we gone through in the main story mode let alone the side stories.
• The Void (or pocket dimension as you interpreted it) has to be talking about one of the many realms within Underworld coz the director of the franchise, Itsuno, made it clear that the entire cosmology (The Timeline) of the DMC only includes two worlds which are Human World and Demon World.

That being said, Demon World clearly by logical standards acts as a Multiverse for these smaller worlds so it should be at the very very VERY least be insignificant 5D space which shouldn't be a problem later down the line as I'm gonna explain the reason in the upcoming section.



I'm going on this highlighted part here since this is where the justification actually comes. Now, i do admit one thing here Fuji, throughout all the fransico madness, this part was really bothersome for me to find further supporting evidences for it but i digress... Why? Coz this on its own already proves that the Demon World should have its own temporal axis that engulfs everything within it. As we know, Sparda throughout the entire lore of DMC was the one that sealed off the Underworld from Human World.

Him sealing Underworld had one more effect over the outer realm which was sealing its flow of time. The scan i provided says:



"Their world" implying the singular realm, Demon World, had its time stopped by Sparda as a side effect of its sealing soo you're correct here. There was indeed one which was Demon World's temporal dimension in totality that engulfs all the temporal dimensions that are hilariously different from one another. Whereas Peak of Mid just supports it by outright calling it a Chaos Timeline as another synonym of Demon World especially given throughout the gameplay, there was no mention of Demon World or Underworld through the talks. Just Chaos Timeline... That's all.



Well the general idea was everytime we go into Underworld, new to new realms spawns out of nowhere. So much so that i lost the count of how many are there so i just assume there are countless realms here.

Not that it matters coz what I'm arguing here has to do 0% with the amount of dimensions in the Underworld so take that with a grain of salt.



The context is there Fuji... You just didn't bothered to look at it... Soo lets take another look on what the scan says here:



The spirit (Helfilth) in this case scenario, is in a space that transcends space and time in comparison to all other weird realms we went through but this realm alone was considered special due to its specific nature aka the Nightmares. "Nightmares" did something rang? Yeah the nightmares which are stated to be metaphysical in nature as well as even blatantly stated to be transcendental by DMC5 game description and DMC3 guidebook respectively. This nature of dreams (nightmares) had dream version of Lady keeping up with Helfilth herself and even defeated her.

That being said, the part where you said that it means she would be simply leaving the space-time but where exactly may i ask?

Yup the Demon World itself which roundabout ends up supporting the fifth spatial axis for her to wander beyond space and time while being within one in the first place (which, again, isn't true given she is usually in her domain/realm most of the time but you get the idea).



Its just another perspective of looking at the statement. Outside of time can be taken as being outside of your usual temporal reaches and inside Demon World at that so at the end, it would just be another case for 5D realm.

Also since you touched on the infinite part, the infinitely expending universe also from another perspective would be just that it is infinite no matter how far you go through it. But again, its just one of the two examples i gave soo meh.

Now i wanna bring one more 5D realm which would be Mirror World itself. This world was obviously stated to reflect our world but things are more complicated then you think it would be.

Not only does the realm is stated to transcend space-time but it has its own flow of time as well on top of that soo you will get another 5D inner realms by the end of the day. Furthermore, the God of Time and Space who is stated to know all about the past and is omniscient who is also stated to both be the watcher of time and to have the power to control time has no power within the mirror world and is viewed as nothing more than an illusion.



Ahh my favorite part of the entire argument after the spatial axis of Demon World. So i guess its time to humble you a bit here as well.

First of all, why Human World and Demon World being merged has to do anything here? Them merging or not has to do nothing as they are closer to eachother just separated by literal space-times and the space between them that carries even the entirety of Demon World itself.

That said space is contained by a temporal dimension that branches infinitely and makes up the actual multiverse and lemme clear this point again that Itsuno says there is only Human and Demon World in the entire cosmology, the said cosmology would be the overarching timeline.

Not convinced? Here is one more funny thing... Mundus and his palace exist outside of the flow of time and yet have his alternate versions across the multiverse which suggests that there is indeed another layer of temporal axis coz you can't have alternate versions of yourself across time while being outside of it soo it has to be another higher temporal axis which would be the overarching timeline itself.

Also you talk about merged timeline being a relavent argument when PoC hilariously debunks this notion as it is blatantly stated to be a canon alternate timeline where Human World and Demon World are already separated and has a temporal space between them which, again, would be the space between these worlds and still treated as a singular timeline.

But anyway i let my lawyer @Tony_di_bugalu handle this mess for me as how it was originally planned.



Fuji, Fuji and Fuji. The 10D part was never supposed to come from the amount of dimensions but rather the dimension that houses these dimensions which we universally call a "multiverse". My original plan was to release this blog later down the line as from some inner sources i heard that later there will be a revision conducted by someone which would change tier 2 and the way we scale characters to spatial and temporal dimensions.



That's coz you didn't even bothered to check the blog once and went straight for the short listed, summarized version of the arguments thinking you hit a jackpot but you end up stepping on a lego block instead.



Here is the recap of your recaps:

• Ray of Light? What's that? That was nowhere near what i was actually arguing for lol?
• I didn't forgot to count. It's just that you lack the basic ability to process the simple task of looking into the blog. If you did, you could make a well-informed post with great detail regardless of how much time it would've taken. That would be a good start of the arguments here but instead you decided to rush it like you usually do and what happened? Nothing... Just waste of time and energy.
• Lets see... Being outside of time, metaphysical in nature, transcendental state and beyond space and time itself seems good enough for me to assume 5D realms within Underworld don't know about you.
• You simply just used the previous argument as a basis for this conclusion but for that you have to keep having your footings over the arguments you made beforehand and soo far... The situation doesn't seem good for you all things considered.
• The extra dimension was the space between timelines as we call it a multiverse in simple terms which acts as a range thing rather then a stats stuff given how unreasonable the standards feel for tier 2 personally speaking.

Ahh 2hoes. Its been quite a while since i last heard about it but since we are speaking over it, how about you tell me the amount of sequels you played regarding the franchise. I mean... You have time to bump all 5-6 GoW downgrade threads at once simultaneously soo you must be quite free i assume, no?



I'm sorry for that part. I take that back actually. It has to be assumed you have pair of eye sockets to weep in the first place generously speaking ofc.

All that?

 

[SuperSonicTL]

Phew

That took alot outta me given the time restraints but yeah this will answer most of the questions. Also Fuji don't mind the jabs in there, i respect you lowkey so just chill and look through it in detail.

Anyway time to reply others

 

[SuperSonicTL]

All that?

 

[Woomica]

Holy yap neutral btw

 

[SuperSonicTL]

Sorry for pointing this out but Its really hilarious how you just assumed it would be talking regarding the size instead of nature but its your schtick in every thread you've ever been soo i can't blame you for such mindset.

Now now lets stop right there!​

This, right here, tells me you didn't even bothered to read the blog i posted below... But since you didn't, let me make it do it for you but before that first lets see the context of me posting that statement on the CRT:



For clarity sake (that you didn't followed just recently), i made it clear that the realms are not compared due to their size but rather their nature, the duality of the primordial reality as we know it.



Now... Here I'm going to start the real argumentation for my vision.

The reason why i brought "Ray of Light" in an "Infinite/Endless Darkness" is to give an idea that Demon World is the original Darkness (The primordial universe) in which a very unique realm suddenly was born which we call Human World. With how different the nature of these two (inner and outer) realms were in comparison to eachother, the very border of the primordial world (Demon World) was in a state of constant chaos and to end this chaos, the Demon King of that time, Pluto, decided to separate the thing away from Demon Realm.

Now Human World is no different then any other inner realm when it comes to being a space-time continuum. But why is it soo special and considered a totally different realm in comparison to all other inner realms of Demon World and the multiversal structure itself is due to it having a different flow of time and laws in comparison to any other inner realm which suggests that this is indeed spatially and temporally different then any other realms of Demon World and thus would be its own structure that opposes other sibling universal structures. This is further proven correct by Peak of Mid when Lily was explaining the nature of realms within Demon World in comparison to Human World by having different rules of space and time alike.

Heck lets even ignore this one. I wanna bring in Nirvana dimensions as a way of convincing you and everyone who is reading this CRT discussions.

Among all other Nirvana realms we seen throughout DMC3, one of the Nirvana dimension was stated to be Infinite/Endless as well as being a space-time continuum that aren't effected by the temporal resetting of another Nirvana dimension and you need portals to traverse among all these Nirvana realms.

So to conclude this part, lets have a list of all the requirements we need:

• Infinite sized Dimensions
• Being a space-time continuum
• Spatially and Temporally different
• Needs portals to traverse through them
• Different laws in comparison to one another
• Part of the Demon World
• Demon World in its totality being infinite

Soo all in all, we have all the basic needs to assume the space that doesn't allow these infinitely sized realms with different flow of time to connect with eachother in any way possible should be fifth dimensional which would be the Darkness, the primordial universe, Demon World itself.

Therefore:


My genuine, unadulterated, sophisticated, chadpilled reaction to all this yapping right here:



I answered most of these questions already but lemme make some corrections here:

• My first scan tells that Underworld contains all the realms within it aka every realm we seen throughout the series is a part of Underworld.
• My second scan showcases some of many realms of Underworld we gone through in the main story mode let alone the side stories.
• The Void (or pocket dimension as you interpreted it) has to be talking about one of the many realms within Underworld coz the director of the franchise, Itsuno, made it clear that the entire cosmology (The Timeline) of the DMC only includes two worlds which are Human World and Demon World.

That being said, Demon World clearly by logical standards acts as a Multiverse for these smaller worlds so it should be at the very very VERY least be insignificant 5D space which shouldn't be a problem later down the line as I'm gonna explain the reason in the upcoming section.



I'm going on this highlighted part here since this is where the justification actually comes. Now, i do admit one thing here Fuji, throughout all the fransico madness, this part was really bothersome for me to find further supporting evidences for it but i digress... Why? Coz this on its own already proves that the Demon World should have its own temporal axis that engulfs everything within it. As we know, Sparda throughout the entire lore of DMC was the one that sealed off the Underworld from Human World.

Him sealing Underworld had one more effect over the outer realm which was sealing its flow of time. The scan i provided says:



"Their world" implying the singular realm, Demon World, had its time stopped by Sparda as a side effect of its sealing soo you're correct here. There was indeed one which was Demon World's temporal dimension in totality that engulfs all the temporal dimensions that are hilariously different from one another. Whereas Peak of Mid just supports it by outright calling it a Chaos Timeline as another synonym of Demon World especially given throughout the gameplay, there was no mention of Demon World or Underworld through the talks. Just Chaos Timeline... That's all.



Well the general idea was everytime we go into Underworld, new to new realms spawns out of nowhere. So much so that i lost the count of how many are there so i just assume there are countless realms here.

Not that it matters coz what I'm arguing here has to do 0% with the amount of dimensions in the Underworld so take that with a grain of salt.



The context is there Fuji... You just didn't bothered to look at it... Soo lets take another look on what the scan says here:



The spirit (Helfilth) in this case scenario, is in a space that transcends space and time in comparison to all other weird realms we went through but this realm alone was considered special due to its specific nature aka the Nightmares. "Nightmares" did something rang? Yeah the nightmares which are stated to be metaphysical in nature as well as even blatantly stated to be transcendental by DMC5 game description and DMC3 guidebook respectively. This nature of dreams (nightmares) had dream version of Lady keeping up with Helfilth herself and even defeated her.

That being said, the part where you said that it means she would be simply leaving the space-time but where exactly may i ask?

Yup the Demon World itself which roundabout ends up supporting the fifth spatial axis for her to wander beyond space and time while being within one in the first place (which, again, isn't true given she is usually in her domain/realm most of the time but you get the idea).



Its just another perspective of looking at the statement. Outside of time can be taken as being outside of your usual temporal reaches and inside Demon World at that so at the end, it would just be another case for 5D realm.

Also since you touched on the infinite part, the infinitely expending universe also from another perspective would be just that it is infinite no matter how far you go through it. But again, its just one of the two examples i gave soo meh.

Now i wanna bring one more 5D realm which would be Mirror World itself. This world was obviously stated to reflect our world but things are more complicated then you think it would be.

Not only does the realm is stated to transcend space-time but it has its own flow of time as well on top of that soo you will get another 5D inner realms by the end of the day. Furthermore, the God of Time and Space who is stated to know all about the past and is omniscient who is also stated to both be the watcher of time and to have the power to control time has no power within the mirror world and is viewed as nothing more than an illusion.



Ahh my favorite part of the entire argument after the spatial axis of Demon World. So i guess its time to humble you a bit here as well.

First of all, why Human World and Demon World being merged has to do anything here? Them merging or not has to do nothing as they are closer to eachother just separated by literal space-times and the space between them that carries even the entirety of Demon World itself.

That said space is contained by a temporal dimension that branches infinitely and makes up the actual multiverse and lemme clear this point again that Itsuno says there is only Human and Demon World in the entire cosmology, the said cosmology would be the overarching timeline.

Not convinced? Here is one more funny thing... Mundus and his palace exist outside of the flow of time and yet have his alternate versions across the multiverse which suggests that there is indeed another layer of temporal axis coz you can't have alternate versions of yourself across time while being outside of it soo it has to be another higher temporal axis which would be the overarching timeline itself.

Also you talk about merged timeline being a relavent argument when PoC hilariously debunks this notion as it is blatantly stated to be a canon alternate timeline where Human World and Demon World are already separated and has a temporal space between them which, again, would be the space between these worlds and still treated as a singular timeline.

But anyway i let my lawyer @Tony_di_bugalu handle this mess for me as how it was originally planned.



Fuji, Fuji and Fuji. The 10D part was never supposed to come from the amount of dimensions but rather the dimension that houses these dimensions which we universally call a "multiverse". My original plan was to release this blog later down the line as from some inner sources i heard that later there will be a revision conducted by someone which would change tier 2 and the way we scale characters to spatial and temporal dimensions.



That's coz you didn't even bothered to check the blog once and went straight for the short listed, summarized version of the arguments thinking you hit a jackpot but you end up stepping on a lego block instead.



Here is the recap of your recaps:

• Ray of Light? What's that? That was nowhere near what i was actually arguing for lol?
• I didn't forgot to count. It's just that you lack the basic ability to process the simple task of looking into the blog. If you did, you could make a well-informed post with great detail regardless of how much time it would've taken. That would be a good start of the arguments here but instead you decided to rush it like you usually do and what happened? Nothing... Just waste of time and energy.
• Lets see... Being outside of time, metaphysical in nature, transcendental state and beyond space and time itself seems good enough for me to assume 5D realms within Underworld don't know about you.
• You simply just used the previous argument as a basis for this conclusion but for that you have to keep having your footings over the arguments you made beforehand and soo far... The situation doesn't seem good for you all things considered.
• The extra dimension was the space between timelines as we call it a multiverse in simple terms which acts as a range thing rather then a stats stuff given how unreasonable the standards feel for tier 2 personally speaking.

Ahh 2hoes. Its been quite a while since i last heard about it but since we are speaking over it, how about you tell me the amount of sequels you played regarding the franchise. I mean... You have time to bump all 5-6 GoW downgrade threads at once simultaneously soo you must be quite free i assume, no?



I'm sorry for that part. I take that back actually. It has to be assumed you have pair of eye sockets to weep in the first place generously speaking ofc.

Soo to summarize in a very clear way what I'm arguing here with this:

1. Human World -> 3+1D
2. Helfilth's Domain/Mundus' Palace/Mirror World -> 4+1D
3. Demon World containing all the realms within it with different some of it being infinite sized and separate flow of time from one another -> 5+1D
4. The temporal axis of Demon World -> 5+2D
5. The space (gaps) that engulfs even Demon World within it -> 6D+2D
6. The actual overarching timeline -> 6D+3D
7. The space between timelines aka multiverse -> 7D+3D (range only)

Take your time digesting it lads. I'm going for a little shleep.

 

[Deagonx]

So to conclude this part, lets have a list of all the requirements we need:

• Infinite sized Dimensions
• Being a space-time continuum
• Spatially and Temporally different
• Needs portals to traverse through them
• Different laws in comparison to one another
• Part of the Demon World
• Demon World in its totality being infinite

Soo all in all, we have all the basic needs to assume the space that doesn't allow these infinitely sized realms with different flow of time to connect with eachother in any way possible should be fifth dimensional which would be the Darkness, the primordial universe, Demon World itself.

Human World -> 3+1D
Helfilth's Domain/Mundus' Palace/Mirror World -> 4+1D
Demon World containing all the realms within it with different some of it being infinite sized and separate flow of time from one another -> 5+1D
The temporal axis of Demon World -> 5+2D
The space (gaps) that engulfs even Demon World within it -> 6D+2D
The actual overarching timeline -> 6D+3D
The space between timelines aka multiverse -> 7D+3D (range only)

This list sort of concerns me. We shouldn't let this snowball out of control if the issue is about what the actual standards are.

An infinite amount of infinitely sized spaces doesn't constitute a 5-D cosmology. Having different flows of time doesn't constitute a 5-D cosmology or an extra temporal dimension.

 

[SuperSonicTL]

This list sort of concerns me. We shouldn't let this snowball out of control if the issue is about what the actual standards are.

An infinite amount of infinitely sized spaces doesn't constitute a 5-D cosmology. Having different flows of time doesn't constitute a 5-D cosmology or an extra temporal dimension.

Then god knows at this point what qualifies for you if such plothora of evidences shouldn't be even considered 5D despite DBS got it with way less evidence whatsoever.

 

[Deagonx]

Then god knows at this point what qualifies for you if such plothora of evidences shouldn't be even considered 5D despite DBS got it with way less evidence whatsoever.

DBS probably shouldn't have gotten it, but I'd have to refresh my memory on why they got it.

Anyways, as to what does qualify: if the number of infinite spaces is considered uncountably infinite that could justify an additional spatial axis. Alternatively if it is stated that an infinitely large space is infinitesimal to the larger space it could be presumed that the larger space has an additional spatial axis. (This was the "ray of light" argument. That the word ray implies a line, which is infinitesimal relative to an infinite space. It was rejected.)

For timelines, Qawsedf provided some diagrams and explanations above.

The simple fact of the matter is that we don't really have any indications of that here. You tried to give the Demon world an extra spatial axis from a scan that said someone "wanders beyond space and time." That doesn't mean anything at all! And honestly, why would that correlate to a spatial dimension in the first place if she's beyond space?

I'm not trying to be difficult here, sincerely, but you provided an array of things -- none of which actually spoke to our standards -- and somehow stacked your way up to 10D range. It just doesn't work like that.

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

Verse X has gotten it with less evidence, so did verse Y

Can y'all stop bringing in unrelated verses? Unrelated verses = different evidences
and proof, it's all contextual. That ain't an argument, no offense meant.

 

[StrymULTRA]

DBS probably shouldn't have gotten it, but I'd have to refresh my memory on why they got it.

Here: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...inity/Hypertimelines_In_Dragon_Ball_Explained

 

[SuperSonicTL]

5-D Demon World makes sense then, but it would rather be limited.

This is the problem that i specifically have a way to deal with but if you take the entire structure of the Demon World as Infinite/Endless like the manga portrays then you basically have bypassed that requirement already but my main bet is on the extra temporal dimension soo far

In order to qualify for a Low 1-C rating, the extra-dimensional axis will have to be manifested as infinite significant in size and or the lower-dimensional structures will have to be depicted as infinitesimal. Simply containing infinite-sized Low 2-C structures isn't enough to qualify as Low 1-C; it implies a compactified dimension nonetheless. As for the Demon World having its own temporal axis, if it isn't shown to be able to affect the human world then it can't qualify as a "hypertimeline"; as 2 temporal axes would require the space-time contained within the larger space to be affected by the time-flow of the larger structure.

Why would it need to effect Human World when the entire plot revolves around it being detached from the Demon World and the reaches of its second temporal dimension itself? The realm just exists in an extra-dimensional space that would contain the entire structure of Demon World. Human World is just displaced there, far away from the reaches of the entirety of Demon World, that's all.

Was the spirit explicitly stated to transcend the space-time of the Demon World? Also, with the new tiering system intact I'm unsure how we'd rate the statement "transcending space and time", as that is something rather implying qualification rather than quantification. As for existing outside the flow of time claim, the statement "diverged from the flow of time" does not imply that Mundus's domain transcends time itself. Even if it is explicitly stated to transcend the flow of time, I doubt it would give any clarity on any dimensional quantification.

I proposed better context and reasons this time around which in my opinion should be good enough but I'll let the experts to look at it and give an answer on how to deal with it.

Also it was two of the three 5D realms i proposed in the blog with more detail but since I'm new into the wiki so i didn't knew that people take the arguments from the OP more seriously then the blog it worked on but i take this as an advice and will do better next time soo thanks

It could mean a Low Multiversal structure instead. And I have absolutely no idea where you even got 9-D from.

I presented the overall list of where all 9 to 10 higher dimensional structures coming from so take a look and answer it with the recent information i just gave.

The Many-Worlds Interpretation stems from the relationship between quantum mechanics and relation to our physical reality. Hence, it encompasses every quantum measurement and its core concept of it -- examples being wave functions, decoherence, branching universes precisely via quantum events, etc. The scans you have shown do not directly imply the MWI theory at all. Most logically, it implies multiple timelines that represent each possibility which can extend to countless up to infinite but not necessarily encompassing every quantum occurrence there is across an uncountable scope.

Well technically speaking the idea was not just one but multiple temporal dimensions stacked over each other with the higher one making uncountably infinite snapshots of the lower one which, inturn, is making uncountably infinite snapshots of an infinitely sized realm displaced away from one another soo it do kinda work like that at this point but you get the idea.

Everything we have got in our research is in there so whenever you feel like it, just read it.

 

[ProfectusInfinity]

Is anyone still keeping a solid tally? Griffin said he’s fine with whatever the majority of Tier 1 knowledgeable members decide, and right now we have 1 knowledgeable member agreeing (Planck), and 2 disagreeing (Princeofpein, Qawsedf) afaik, which would probably place Griffin in favor of disagreeing without further input from him.

 

[Deagonx]

Is anyone still keeping a solid tally? Griffin said he’s fine with whatever the majority of Tier 1 knowledgeable members decide, and right now we have 1 knowledgeable member agreeing (Planck), and 2 disagreeing (Princeofpein, Qawsedf) afaik, which would probably place Griffin in favor of disagreeing without further input from him.

Griffin said it's better if he moves himself to neural for now. Pein isn't a staff member so it's essentially 1-2? But Planck hasn't addressed what Qawsedf said so his view may change.

 

[SuperSonicTL]

I was asked to comment here on my thoughts regarding this. Though I've said this once, and I'll say it again, Tier 1 just isn't my thing, however i do think it's fine as I've already looked over this before (though "some" stuff regarding the higher dimensions was a bit off in my opinion).

Note though, I literally just got three teeth removed and I'm in pain so I won't be participating in this thread as I just don't feel up to it. However If the majority of staff/members knowledgeable on tier 1 say it isn't enough then so be it. I don't think my thoughts are worth much but take them as you will.

Also since i got the time to reply all the mods here.

First of all, greetings. I feel pretty sorry for you but remember that health and life always comes first. Heck, you shouldn't be here if you're not into tier 1. Idk who forced you like this even but anyway take a rest and reply over the matter however and whenever you feel like.

But anyway, thanks for taking on the burden of replying here. I'll appreciate it nonetheless.

 

[Theglassman12]

I can see the hypertimeline arguments with the Demon world containing smaller space times being legit, though neutral on the rest since that's a bit esoteric to my knowledge.

 

[Deagonx]

I can see the hypertimeline arguments with the Demon world containing smaller space times being legit, though neutral on the rest since that's a bit esoteric to my knowledge.

Timelines containing smaller spacetimes doesn't qualify as an additional temporal axis, based on the Tiering FAQ and what Qawsedf and DontTalk have said on the matter.

 

[CurrySenpai]

Yeah, I'm mainly in agreeance with the demon world hypertimeline stuff, but my mind is thoroughly convinced the rest doesn't make sense.

 

[Theglassman12]

@Deagonx yes it does, otherwise Dragon Ball wouldn't even have tier 1, it's the same argument and that qualified at the end of the day.

 

[Deagonx]

@Deagonx yes it does, otherwise Dragon Ball wouldn't even have tier 1, it's the same argument and that qualified at the end of the day.

That's not rational. I don't know whether the situations are actually comparable, but even if they were all that would mean is that DB is wrong too, not that this is passable.

We have explicit standards for matters like this, and the basic premise of CRTs is that things are added and removed, which means not everything that passes is actually justified, and what's currently on a profile somewhere on the wiki is not necessarily what our standards are. You shouldn't even be making an argument like this.

Our standards as written, and the two staff members who contributed the most to writing them, have explicitly stated that this is not sufficient. I don't know how you could respond to that with "well DB got it so it must be fine."

 

[SuperSonicTL]

Okay guyz! Listen. DB is DB and we can talk about that thing later but right now the focus is on DMC and its quirky cosmology soo kindly have the attention here.

I genuinely have no idea if this doesn't even qualify for 5D space then what even does at this point. But lemme see what Deagonx is trying to convey so the next time i reply, i cover those parts and soo some time is needed for that. Afterall, I'm alone working on this project soo far.

 

[CurrySenpai]

That's not rational. I don't know whether the situations are actually comparable, but even if they were all that would mean is that DB is wrong too, not that this is passable.

We have explicit standards for matters like this, and the basic premise of CRTs is that things are added and removed, which means not everything that passes is actually justified, and what's currently on a profile somewhere on the wiki is not necessarily what our standards are. You shouldn't even be making an argument like this.

Our standards as written, and the two staff members who contributed the most to writing them, have explicitly stated that this is not sufficient. I don't know how you could respond to that with "well DB got it so it must be fine."

This either means that your view of the standards is wrong, or DB somehow slipped by, which at this point, it's no longer about DMC it's about our standards and that doesn't belong in this thread as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Deagonx]

This either means that your view of the standards is wrong, or DB somehow slipped by, which at this point, it's no longer about DMC it's about our standards and that doesn't belong in this thread as far as I'm concerned.

I couldn't agree more! Which is why the counterargument "well DB got it so it's fine" shouldn't be brought up here. It's not only a definitively invalid argument, but it's also off-topic.

Discussing what the standards actually are definitely belongs here. That's a normal manner of argument for a CRT.

 

[CurrySenpai]

Discussing what the standards actually are definitely belongs here. That's a normal manner of argument for a CRT.

I don't know if it belongs HERE, but if that's what you think, then I don't really have a lot of qualms letting it continue.

 

[Deagonx]

I don't know if it belongs HERE, but if that's what you think, then I don't really have a lot of qualms letting it continue.

When someone proposes an upgrade, they're saying X information meets Y standards. It's a normal course of disagreement to say "X information may be true (or may not be true) but it doesn't fit Y standards."

I would agree that an argument about what the standards ought to be is out of place here, but that doesn't seem to be the scenario. There's some kind of misunderstanding about what the rules actually are.

 

[Theglassman12]

Our standards as written, and the two staff members who contributed the most to writing them, have explicitly stated that this is not sufficient. I don't know how you could respond to that with "well DB got it so it must be fine."

Then either the standards have changed or something else isn't right, which at that point you're gonna need to make a standard wise CRT or QnA to talk about what even qualifies for a hypertimeline. Bringing up the fact that other verses use the exact same argument and it qualifies isn't an invalid argument when they're also following the same standards. If you think it's not legit then by all means every other verse that uses hypertimelines should be downgraded, because the standards are relatively the same across them all.

 

[Fixxed]

As far as i remembered the standard

Hypertimeline require overeaching timeline, you need to prove other timeline are just a small part in that timeline's time structure. Make the timeline greater in it time structure than other timeline

 

[Deagonx]

Then either the standards have changed or something else isn't right, which at that point you're gonna need to make a standard wise CRT

Repeating once more that I do not know the specifics of this other verse's cosmology, the standards haven't changed. If what you're saying is true, then that revision was passed erroneously. The standards don't need to be revised.

Bringing up the fact that other verses use the exact same argument and it qualifies isn't an invalid argument when they're also following the same standards.

That's begging the question, you haven't established that they're following the standards, all you've established is that they passed at some point, which isn't an indication that they're aligned with the standards.

I don't know why you've centered your entire argument on whataboutism regarding Dragon Ball. We have explicit written standards for what qualifies and what doesn't here and I've used that to explain why they do not meet the criteria, in addition to Qawsedf's explanations here and DontTalk's explanation here.

We should be discussing the standards, not derailing this by talking about other verses which have 0 bearing on the validity of this CRT.

 

[SuperSonicTL]

As far as i remembered the standard

Hypertimeline require overeaching timeline, you need to prove other timeline are just a small part in that timeline's time structure. Make the timeline greater in it time structure than other timeline

Which i did actually. All the realms of Demon World alone are different from one another. Human World and Nirvana dimensions are the best example of this so idk what even is the problem here.

But I'm looking into the matter for now.

 

[Deagonx]

Which i did actually. All the realms of Demon World alone are different from one another. Human World and Nirvana dimensions are the best example of this so idk what even is the problem here.

The problem is that's not what the standard is. Timelines with smaller timelines within them are not part of the standard, nothing in the FAQ says that and the explanations from the staff members who wrote those standards have explicitly said that's not sufficient.