Yhwach Hax Downgrade (small)

[PaChi2]

Also, I dont understand the big deal about Yhwach having Acausality type 2 because he absorbed and gained the powers of an Acausal. Inconsistent with the story? We dont give a **** about that. He absorbed it, gained it, end of story. When absorbing powers you cant expect the author to portray every single effing power again to showcase "complete absorption".

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Also, I dont understand the big deal about Yhwach having Acausality type 2 because he absorbed and gained the powers of an Acausal. Inconsistent with the story? We dont give a **** about that. He absorbed it, gained it, end of story. When absorbing powers you cant expect the author to portray every single effing power again to showcase "complete absorption".

Not according to the thread I made Pachi. I was flat out given feedback about this.

If its inconsistent with the story, then Type 2 Acasuality is disqualified. Kaltias himself explained ths to be the case as using Madoka as an example, who is portrayed as having her past and future deleted which perfectly fits with the current qualifications.

Besides, absorbing someones acasuality is also wrong as Cal first pointed out. Acasuality is a state of being. You cant absorb that, just as you cant absorb someones omnipresence.

 

[Jvando]

@Jvando

This falls apart once you realize keeping the world in check is also a power the SK had just via existing, now guess what Yhwach does once he absorbed him as well? He keeps the balance of the world in check.

Keeping the world in check is not a state of existence, it's just his power. He does it by existing, yes, but that isn't his state of existence.

I'll try to explain it like this. Being omnipresent, for example, means you "Exist everywhere, whenever and nowhere at the same time. An unbounded presence". Type two Acausality is "Temporal Singularity: Not existing in either the past or the future, only the present"

I hope I've gotten the point I've wanted to reiterate across.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

@Kukui
I am not disagreeing with Yhwach not being acausal, I am disagreeing with your absolutely awful reasoning of using scans from previous chapters to Yhwach absorbing Mimi to argue it. That is what I take issue with.

And why are they awful? They are to prove that Yhwach absorbing Mimihagi didnt delete him across history, which is explictly needed to become an Acasual Type 2.

The only small thing i'll admit to is "Zangetsu being Yhwach's past self", which isnt dropping much since Zangetsu's existence would still prove Yhwach's past was never actually erased from history.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

And i'll repeat again, Soul King maintaining the existence of the worlds is a state of being power. Yhwach absorbed him and got it too. You can't argue this with a blanket answer as if all fiction follows your rules

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

So Yhwach is Acasual in what sense ?


Also please PLEASE, can you guys stop this insanity because it actually gave me a headache

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

And i'll repeat again, Soul King maintaining the existence of the worlds is a state of being power. Yhwach absorbed him and got it too. You can't argue this with a blanket answer as if all fiction follows your rules

Irrelevant. Has absolutely nothing to do with Acasuality period, let alone this type.

 

[Ghuttsu]

your excuse is that a state of being can't be trasferred, do you even know what your previous arguments were?

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Irrelevant. Has absolutely nothing to do with Acasuality period, let alone this type.

That's because once again you missed the point lol, my post wasn't about acasuality it was about "state of being". try and follow the conversation properly.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

That's because once again you missed the point lol, my post wasn't about acasuality it was about "state of being". try and follow the conversation properly.

Which is still wrong as the SK's feat of maintaining the worlds is simply done as he exists. Thats nothing but a very casual feat.

 

[Ghuttsu]

and a state of being can be transferred, alucard became omnipresent after absorbing shrodinger.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Good god is this dumb. Because your argument is using scans from chapters before Yhwach becomes Type 2 would remove him from panels of the manga chapters prior to that chapter.

>Lets say A shows up in chapter 100

>He absorbs B who is Type 2 in chapter 110

>Thus he should get erased from the history in the story

>But your argument that he isn't Type 2 is by using scans from chapter 105 when he isn't even Type 2 yet

How in gods name is this "logic" not freaking awful? Just cuz someone inverse is Type 2 does not mean he is gonna be erased from the actual ******* pages of the story.

 

[PaChi2]

Mimihagi is the arm that governs non-evolution.

It is the Soul King's arm.

Its acausality is tied to this power or else every piece of the Soul King would be the same (my boi Gerard, for example). By absorbing Mimihagi Yhwach gained its powers and "logically" its govern over non-evolution. Therefore, Yhwach should have the acausality tied to non-evolution.

And the whole "state of being" thing gets debunked by no other part of the Soul King having acausality.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

and a state of being can be transferred, alucard became omnipresent after absorbing shrodinger.

Alucards page shows no such evidence of this and I already pointed this out.

Besides, 2 wrongs dont make a right. If what you said checks out, that means Alucard also needs to have his omnipresence removed.

 

[Ghuttsu]

pretty much all your arguments are completely flawed, to me it looks like you're just trying to desprately downgrade yhwach.

 

[Ghuttsu]

and a state of being can be transferred, alucard became omnipresent after absorbing shrodinger.

Alucards page shows no such evidence of this and I already pointed this out.
Besides, 2 wrongs dont make a right. If what you said checks out, that means Alucard also needs to have his omnipresence removed.

No.

alucard is effectively omnipresent.

he became he both exists and doesn't exist, and is everywhere and nowhere at the same time.

nice try though.

 

[PaChi2]

Having said that Im leaving the thread because I have the feeling that this is some kind of vendetta or revenge or something. And I dont want to get involved in this.

Ari ari ari ari ari.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Using Mimihagi as your only counter argument is also not a wise move as his Acasuality is also being questioned in this thread along with Yhwach. Especially because of "non-evolution' =/= existing in only one point in time.

Also, "only this part granting this power" is starting to make it sound like Mimihagi can only actively become Acasual, which...is not how Acasuality actually works.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Lol it's only being questioned by you, you have no real argument.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Good god is this dumb. Because your argument is using scans from chapters before Yhwach becomes Type 2 would remove him from panels of the manga chapters prior to that chapter.
>Lets say A shows up in chapter 100

>He absorbs B who is Type 2 in chapter 110

>Thus he should get erased from the history in the story

>But your argument that he isn't Type 2 is by using scans from chapter 105 when he isn't even Type 2 yet

How in gods name is this "logic" not freaking awful? Just cuz someone inverse is Type 2 does not mean he is gonna be erased from the actual ******* pages of the story.

And once again, I introduce you to Madoka . Who explicitly did this. She got deleted across the histoy of her entire verse and remained to only exist in the present, which is how and why she currently has Acasuality Type 2. That is how it works and that is the feedback I got before making this thread.

It doesnt matter if Yhwach wasnt type 2 yet in previous chapters. The moment that he becomes Type 2 Acasual, his past is to be deleted and everything that associated with him is paradoxed out of history. And yet none of this happens in the slightest. Therefore it explicitly proves Yhwach's past remains in existence.

Unless you want to propose we change Acasuality Type 2 as a whole (which I wouldnt be against.)

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Stop trying to put other verse mechanics on Bleach, that isn't how it works unless you're arguing type 2 is something that relies wholely on requierments based off of that series.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

No.

alucard is effectively omnipresent.

he became he both exists and doesn't exist, and is everywhere and nowhere at the same time.

nice try though.

And where is this evidence that he became omnipresence via absorption? No where. He doesnt even have absorption on his page.

So again, if he has no actual justification for it, it should be removed too.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Stop trying to put other verse mechanics on Bleach, that isn't how it works unless you're arguing type 2 is something that relies wholely on requierments based off of that series.

If your trying to imply Bleach's laws of temporal paradoxing is suddenly something different, thats your burden of proof to prove.

Otherwise there is no reason to say its different, this is not a verse specific thing in the slightest. It's how paradoxes work in general. The past gets erased/changed, it effects history.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

@Kukui

You are still not understanding. Imagine you have a book and the main character becomes Type 2 halfway through. But since the story is still there when you flip to the previous pages, he isn't Type 2. That is your argument right now.

 

[PaChi2]

"And where is this evidence that he became omnipresence via absorption? No where. He doesnt even have absorption on his page.

So again, if he has no actual justification for it, it should be removed too."

Alucard (Hellsing)

Click in "Blood Absorption". And afterwards read this:

Bloodsucking: The ability to suck a person's blood and absorb their soul and, consequently, their knowledge and memories. (He learns more about Millennium after absorbing Tubalcain). He can also absorb blood through his clothes and skin, as he does with Luke Valentine's blood after his hellhound had eaten Luke's body. Alucard can also draw in blood from millions of people over vast distances (at least throughout the city of London).

Also, stop derailing this with Alucard please.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

@Kukui
You are still not understanding. Imagine you have a book and the main character becomes Type 2 halfway through. But since the story is still there when you flip to the previous pages, he isn't Type 2. That is your argument right now.

Yes I know this is the argument. And i'll say this again. This argument is exactly the case that I was told in the Acasuality thread I made before I made this downgrade thread for Yhwach. Again, before I made it. If you are not deleted throughout the past and future to only have your existence remain in the present, you cannot have Acasuality Type 2.

This isnt something im just making up, this is the feedback I was given. So unless we agree to go and revise the standards for Acasuality Type 2 as a whole, not being deleted throghout your story counts as a legitimate disquallification.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Go get Kal here then because he most certainly wasn't saying that the whatever chapters/episodes etc of the verse got erased in real life when the character became Type 2.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Wtf is going on here.

Almighty affecting Yhwach's future literally means he doesn't have Acausality Type 2. As explained many times.

All other arguments should be redundant until this is fully addressed.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Go get Kal here then because he most certainly wasn't saying that the whatever chapters/episodes etc of the verse got erased in real life when the character became Type 2.

Wait a minute...you're talking about the literal episodes/chapters?

I thought you were only talking about the events that happen in-verse (which was what Kal was referring to when he answered me).

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Yes the literal chapters, the same ones from before Yhwach absorbed Mimi that you were using as evidence to argue a point of him not having Type 2. As I said, I am not disagreeing with your conclusion, but this argument is pretty ....... something.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Yes the literal chapters, the same ones from before Yhwach absorbed Mimi that you were using as evidence to argue a point of him not having Type 2. As I said, I am not disagreeing with your conclusion, but this argument is pretty ....... something.

Dude no offense, but, come on.

By using the chapters as evidence, I was clearly talking about the in-verse canon events that happen throughout the storyline. Not the literal chapters or episodes of the series.

 

[Jvando]

Wtf is going on here.

Almighty affecting Yhwach's future literally means he doesn't have Acausality Type 2. As explained many times.

All other arguments should be redundant until this is fully addressed.

Basically this.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Just means Almighty > that. The ability description doesn't say immunity just really good resistance. Wiki is full of powers that don't make sense, due to all fiction being different.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

One would assume so but then you chose to use stuff that was from before he absorbed Mimi and wasn't even referenced after he absorbed Mimi as evidence. That is dumb and irrelevant.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

So the answer to all our problems is...wait for it...

because fiction!

Almighty is above Acausality which means he doesn't have a future or past but can influence his future whilst not having one. That is the power of Almighty.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Just means Almighty > that. The ability description doesn't say immunity just really good resistance. Wiki is full of powers that don't make sense, due to all fiction being different.

If we're talking about acausality, no. It does mean immunity.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

@Cal

Not type 2 (except for past I think based on wording).

Type 2: Temporal Singularity: Characters with this type of Acausality do not exist in either the past or the future, only the present. This means they cannot be affected by changes to the past, while also making them resistant to Precognition that works by viewing the future, as they do not exist within it, and Fate Manipulation, for the same reason. In essence, they are able to choose their own fates, but they remain just as vulnerable at the point in time in which they do exist.

The ones that give immunity straight up say immunity.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

It's bad wording then on the writer's part.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

One would assume so but then you chose to use stuff that was from before he absorbed Mimi and wasn't even referenced after he absorbed Mimi as evidence. That is dumb and irrelevant.

What do you mean by "wasn't even referenced"?

And again, im not talking about the actual chapters/episodes. Im talking about the in-verse canon events within the storyline.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

@Cal

Then a CRT has to be made if it's immunity to everything.