Yeet type 5 Acausality or change it again

[Agnaa]

Dude. You asked me to reword it to make it easier to understand. That implies that the issue is with people's understanding of the ability, so I answered in a way that tried to clear that up. If everyone already understands it, why are you asking that?

As I already said, I barely know any verses that would have this sort of thing, so of course I don't know any examples myself.

And as I said above, if there are truly no characters who meet the definition, then it should be deleted.

Of course asking me a pointless question won't help the situation.

 

[Bobsican]

I know I'm not staff, but I'd also support just removing it.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Got permission from Agnaa to post here

Warhammer Acausality 5 is probably still fine, they've got feats of being unaffected by even Irregular flows of Causality and the only things that interact with anything from the warp in either 40K, AoS, or Fantasy, are magical/enchanted weapons or straight magic. Kinda like a NEP 2 being socking another NEP 2 being, it's using the same stuff they're made of on them.

And any possible anti-feats **** off and die when you realize that warp beings in the materium- Even the Gods Themselves- don't have ANY form of acausality.

 

[Dereck03]

You know that irregular flow of causality is textbook Type 4? And that's not even the justification I see for characters like Sigmar.

 

[Agnaa]

You know that irregular flow of causality is textbook Type 4? And that's not even the justification I see for characters like Sigmar.

DaReaper didn't just say "Irregular flow of causality". He said "Unaffected by irregular flows of causality".

If that's said to be the reason for them being unable to be interacted with, and there aren't anti-feats (as everything else either works on that higher level of causality, or is done through/to an avatar) then it seems fine.

 

[Dereck03]

My point still stand, irregular flow of causality still type 4 even if that were the case we have many characters that were brought to the evaluation thread where they had more solid evidence and according to the standards but were rejected for "No proof of uninteractable for being acausal".

 

[DaReaperMan]

You know that irregular flow of causality is textbook Type 4? And that's not even the justification I see for characters like Sigmar.

Yes, it's type 4, the Warp goes a step beyond that by having none of the systems or laws of the Materium- this means everything, Causality, time, physics, basically anything you can think of, This is the main scan for Acausality 5, it holds up becuase nothing but other warp beings, or individuals who can utilize warp stuff, effect them.

"Type 5: Causality Transcendence: Characters with this type of Acausality are completely independent of cause and effect, existing outside causality. Characters of this nature require evidence of being unable to be changed by any effect that relies on a system of causality, meaning that interacting with them normally is impossible.

Though the character is completely Independent of causality to the point of being unaffected by any outside change, this only extends to as far as evidence shows and not to things beyond it's feats.

Note: Being completely independent of time or laws; or similar forces, does not make you completely independent of causality without the relationship between these forces and causality being clarified, with it only being considered as evidence for an irregular relationship with causality otherwise."

Even the note holds true here, with the supporting feat of being completely unaffected by an irregular flow of Causality the warp and the beings that lay within it follow type 5 standards as they are right now, maybe giving it a rimjob, sure, but it has a good supporting feat(unnafected by type 4 Acausality) that backs up the main feat to barely make it.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Yes, it's type 4, the Warp goes a step beyond that by having none of the systems or laws of the Materium- this means everything, Causality, time, physics, basically anything you can think of, This is the main scan for Acausality 5, it holds up becuase nothing but other warp beings, or individuals who can utilize warp stuff, effect them.

"Type 5: Causality Transcendence: Characters with this type of Acausality are completely independent of cause and effect, existing outside causality. Characters of this nature require evidence of being unable to be changed by any effect that relies on a system of causality, meaning that interacting with them normally is impossible.

Though the character is completely Independent of causality to the point of being unaffected by any outside change, this only extends to as far as evidence shows and not to things beyond it's feats.

Note: Being completely independent of time or laws; or similar forces, does not make you completely independent of causality without the relationship between these forces and causality being clarified, with it only being considered as evidence for an irregular relationship with causality otherwise."

Even the note holds true here, with the supporting feat of being completely unaffected by an irregular flow of Causality the warp and the beings that lay within it follow type 5 standards as they are right now, maybe giving it a rimjob, sure, but it has a good supporting feat(unnafected by type 4 Acausality) that backs up the main feat to barely make it.

Sorry to say this. Graham & Anos has same statement and same kinda interaction feats but even they got nuked.

 

[Agnaa]

Dereck: Yes, irregular flow of causality is type 4.

But being uninteractible because of being outside of causality is type 5.

And being uninteractible because of being outside of irregular causality is type 5.

DaReaperMan: That scan is completely insufficient. "There are no physical laws akin to those that dominate the mortal world", "Gravity, shape, space, and reason are in flux and mutable". That doesn't relate to causality at all, and does not indicate that a lack of causality is the reason for them being difficult to effect.

You haven't posted scans for other statements, but on the surface, they don't sound sufficient.

 

[Dereck03]

But being uninteractible because of being outside of causality is type 5.

And being uninteractible because of being outside of irregular causality is type 5.

Anos was unaffected by the order/concept/duality of causality which governs all causality in the verse and got rejected. Just Type 4 and sure, Anos is only Aca 4 for his whole being and yet he was not affected by causality and his source is beyond causality and was not even affected either and did not qualify.

 

[Agnaa]

Anos was unaffected by the order/concept/duality of causality which governs all causality in the verse and got rejected. Just Type 4 and sure, Anos is only Aca 4 for his whole being and yet he was not affected by causality and his source is beyond causality and was not even affected either and did not qualify.

Yeah. Because that isn't being uninteractible because of being outside of causality. That's being unaffected by the "order/concept/duality of causality".

 

[ImmortalDread]

Yeah. Because that isn't being uninteractible because of being outside of causality. That's being unaffected by the "order/concept/duality of causality".

Which governs all causality in the verse

You forget this Agnaa.

 

[Dereck03]

Yeah. Because that isn't being uninteractible because of being outside of causality. That's being unaffected by the "order/concept/duality of causality".

Order of causality governs al the causality of the verse yet he's unaffected cos he's outside the world framework, order and reason. Meaning he's outside the causality of the verse. But let's not take into account his physical body as there are many anti feats despite being unaffected by causality. His source lacks and beyond all order (everything mentioned here, and still not enough) what more do they want for someone to qualify?

This is for every character now in wiki.

 

[Orioreeem]

No verse on the wiki has that specific ststement of being uniteractable because you are outside the causality

 

[Dereck03]

Anyway, we have characters that clearly qualify for the standards, but this is why everything is screwed up since no one has that proof.

 

[wwereymy235]

What about Self reference engine?

 

[ImmortalDread]

@Agnaa The major issue of new standards that despite there is no anti feats have shown, the none-interaction statement should be mentioned regardless. And through our investigation in all profiles, no character qualify for this as far due to lack of this requirement.
And this should be reworked or removed.

 

[Agnaa]

Which governs all causality in the verse

You forget this Agnaa.

I don't forget it, I realise its lack of relevance.

If the verse doesn't show that being outside of causality in the verse makes them invulnerable to attacks, we should not give that as an ability.

Order of causality governs al the causality of the verse yet he's unaffected cos he's outside the world framework, order and reason. Meaning he's outside the causality of the verse. But let's not take into account his physical body as there are many anti feats despite being unaffected by causality. His source lacks and beyond all order (everything mentioned here, and still not enough) what more do they want for someone to qualify?

Evidence that being outside of causality in the verse makes them invulnerable to attacks, rather than just letting them resist causality manip.

Practically statments don't count unless there is evidence that says you can't be interacted with, regardless of whether anyone has been able to interact with you. Whether they require evidence that you cannot be interacted with regardless of all kinds of statments that already established that you cannot be interacted with because you transcend, beyond all causality.

This is good. We want actual evidence, not guesswork.

We should not assume immunity to every ability just because no-one has interacted with them.

The major issue of new standards that despite there is no anti feats have shown, the none-interaction statement should be mentioned regardless. And through our investigation in all profiles, no character qualify for this as far due to lack of this requirement.
And this should be reworked or removed.

As I have already said multiple times now, if no-one qualifies, it should be removed.

 

[Fixxed]

As I have already said multiple times now, if no-one qualifies, it should be removed.

I dont like this idea

 

[ImmortalDread]

Alight @Agnaa I will take your vote as agreeing to removing the ability. Thanks for your input.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Dereck: Yes, irregular flow of causality is type 4.

But being uninteractible because of being outside of causality is type 5.

And being uninteractible because of being outside of irregular causality is type 5.

DaReaperMan: That scan is completely insufficient. "There are no physical laws akin to those that dominate the mortal world", "Gravity, shape, space, and reason are in flux and mutable". That doesn't relate to causality at all, and does not indicate that a lack of causality is the reason for them being difficult to effect.

You haven't posted scans for other statements, but on the surface, they don't sound sufficient.

"Cause need not follow effect" pertains to Causality in that scan, but if you need a little more evidence...

"That is how events are viewed from the chronology of the material universe. In the Warp, things are different, for the Immaterium is not bound by linear time, and events do not occur in a strict sequence of cause then effect. As his rival gods reckon it, Slaanesh has always existed in the Warp, and has yet never existed at all." - Codex Chaos Daemons 6th ED
"Veslyin the Anchorite said that time has no meaning in the Sea of Souls. The warp can give glimpses of the past, the future and the present because within it they are all one. According to him when dealing with its denizens trying to attribute events to a timeframe in terms of past, present or future, is pointless – they must be addressed in terms of absolute actions." - Path of the Dark Eldar; this one above specifically meets the criteria of being invulnerable due to acausality

There are many other scans that pertain to none of the Materium's anything being present in the warp(supporting) or more type 4 for materium stuff, which are below. Correct me if I'm wrong on any of them lol
"All secrets might be known within the warp,’ said Mortarion. ‘It is timeless and eternal. Everything that happens here is reflected there endlessly. Every moment can be accessed, every lie heard, every broken promise relived. I have been deep within, far from Nurgle’s garden, into realms where secrets flock like corpse flies. I found many interesting things there. Do you know why He made us?" - Dark Imperium Plauge Wars
"With the departure of the Ark Mechanicus, the infected wound of the translation point snapped shut as the tortured skein of what mortals blissfully accepted as reality reasserted its dominance. The aftershocks of so brutal a manipulation of the laws governing the physical properties of the universe would echo throughout the past and the future, for such concepts as linear time simply did not exist in the warp." - Priests of Mars
"In order to regain its form, a Daemon must remain in a sort of purgatorial state within its master’s realm. Legend has it that a Daemon banished in this way cannot return for a thousand years and a day, though it is of course impossible to prove such a belief through study, and the concept of time itself is meaningless within the warp. Ultimately, how long the process takes depends upon the power of the individual Daemon, the favour of its deity, and the current balance of power available to the god in question." - Codex Chaos Daemons 8th ED
"It is a roiling, howling maelstorm of force and energy, utterly unpredictable and not subject to the rational laws and linear flow of time in the way that physical reality is." - Horus Heresy Book I: Betrayal, pg 16
"within its bounds, not even the concept of time holds any meaning. A champion may battle within this twisted realm for long months and discover upon his return to reality that only a single day, or an entire century, has passed. " -Warriors of Chaos 8th edition
"The Realm of Chaos is anathema to the laws of physics and ships that navigate its depths do so by taking a skin or bubble of 'reality' with them when they enter." - Codex: Chaos Daemons, pg 7
"At the centre of the Eye of Terror, the powers of the Warp run strongest, meaning the laws of space, time and reality do not apply. Some worlds are flat, floating planes spinning in the ether, others are surrounded by fireballs, while tiered worlds rise up, supported by intertwining pillars. No one can say how these realities exist, save that the pure power of Chaos washes over them and has made them so. Those worlds most steeped in chaotic energy are the abodes of Daemons, and are considered outlying colonies of the Warp, while the outermost planets upon the fringes of the Eye of Terror cling to more of the physical laws of the galaxy. In the centre, time not only does not flow, but also does not exist as a concept, save for when such trivialities might please the Dark Gods themselves." - Index Chaotica

 

[DaReaperMan]

Thank this blog for all those scans lol

 

[Dereck03]

This is good. We want actual evidence, not guesswork.

Did everyone listen? Now all the evidence the characters have of never having been interacted with because transcending or being beyond causality is just guesswork.

Evidence that being outside of causality in the verse makes them invulnerable to attacks, rather than just letting them resist causality manip.

As I said previously, the physical body is only Type 4 and have many anti feats for type 5, but they resist practically everything in the verse and are often unaffected by the general mechanics of the verse as they do not follow the framework of the world, order or reason, but the source was not affected by causality because unbound and beyond all order, it has no causality to be affected to begin with.

Anyway just nuke type 5 and list it as higher degree of type 4 like i've done with Anos and Graham.

 

[Agnaa]

this one above specifically meets the criteria of being invulnerable due to acausality

I do not see how. It just seems like textbook irregular causality. It's just saying that time is fucky, that there's no definite past/present/future, not that they can't be interacted with because they're outside of cause and effect.

Every other quote is just more of the same.

I don't want to read 20 pages of useless information on a verse I don't care about, so if you, DaReaperMan, post any more walls of quotes purporting to be evidence for Type 5 Acausality, I'll stop as soon as I read a quote that does not qualify.

Did everyone listen? Now all the evidence the characters have of never having been interacted with because transcending or being beyond causality is just guesswork.

You didn't show that evidence for me, all the stuff you've shown has just been guesswork. That evidence may still exist, I just haven't seen it.

As I said previously, the physical body is only Type 4 and have many anti feats for type 5, but they resist practically everything in the verse and are often unaffected by the general mechanics of the verse as they do not follow the framework of the world, order or reason, but the source was not affected by causality because unbound and beyond all order, it has no causality to be affected to begin with.

Being unaffected by causality does not mean that you are immune to all attacks because you are outside of causality.

To prove that you are unaffected by Y because you're outside of X, you can't just show that you're unaffected by X.

That is not how logic works.

 

[Agnaa]

Gonna ping the other staff that weren't pinged in this post.

@Everything12 @GyroNutz @Andytrenom @Ultima_Reality

 

[Dereck03]

Being unaffected by causality does not mean that you are immune to all attacks because you are outside of causality.

To prove that you are unaffected by Y because you're outside of X, you can't just show that you're unaffected by X.

That is not how logic works.

In this case source is not unaffecte only by Y or X, it's unaffected by A, B, C, D, E, F.............................................................. Because order is practically the verse per se, and reason is above order and source unbound and beyond those 2. Anyway, count me on just Nuking Type 5.

 

[DaReaperMan]

"they must be addressed in terms of absolute actions"

"Apsolute actions" implies that one must go beyond cause and effect to do anything, absolute is a heavy word with a lot of implications, but saying "Apsolute Actions" is a very interesting statement here, sure, there's the past present and future part that implies time, but if it really meant only time, why would it say "Apsolute actions"? That sounds suspiciously like having to bypass Cause and effect entirely to effect them to me personally

we have repeated instances of type 4 and normal causality having no effect on the warp, the ones pertaining to time are supporting the whole thing of "none of the Materium's rules exist in the warp", which, as a by product, includes causality, that's why the rest of the scans are there Agnaa, they're supporting evidence.

 

[ImmortalDread]

"Cause need not follow effect" pertains to Causality in that scan, but if you need a little more evidence...

"That is how events are viewed from the chronology of the material universe. In the Warp, things are different, for the Immaterium is not bound by linear time, and events do not occur in a strict sequence of cause then effect. As his rival gods reckon it, Slaanesh has always existed in the Warp, and has yet never existed at all." - Codex Chaos Daemons 6th ED
"Veslyin the Anchorite said that time has no meaning in the Sea of Souls. The warp can give glimpses of the past, the future and the present because within it they are all one. According to him when dealing with its denizens trying to attribute events to a timeframe in terms of past, present or future, is pointless – they must be addressed in terms of absolute actions." - Path of the Dark Eldar; this one above specifically meets the criteria of being invulnerable due to acausality

There are many other scans that pertain to none of the Materium's anything being present in the warp(supporting) or more type 4 for materium stuff, which are below. Correct me if I'm wrong on any of them lol
"All secrets might be known within the warp,’ said Mortarion. ‘It is timeless and eternal. Everything that happens here is reflected there endlessly. Every moment can be accessed, every lie heard, every broken promise relived. I have been deep within, far from Nurgle’s garden, into realms where secrets flock like corpse flies. I found many interesting things there. Do you know why He made us?" - Dark Imperium Plauge Wars
"With the departure of the Ark Mechanicus, the infected wound of the translation point snapped shut as the tortured skein of what mortals blissfully accepted as reality reasserted its dominance. The aftershocks of so brutal a manipulation of the laws governing the physical properties of the universe would echo throughout the past and the future, for such concepts as linear time simply did not exist in the warp." - Priests of Mars
"To regain its form, a Daemon must remain in a purgatorial state within its master’s realm. Legend has it that a Daemon banished in this way cannot return for a thousand years and a day, though it is of course impossible to prove such a belief through study, and the concept of time itself is meaningless within the warp. Ultimately, how long the process takes depends upon the power of the individual Daemon, the favour of its deity, and the current balance of power available to the god in question." - Codex Chaos Daemons 8th ED
"It is a roiling, howling maelstorm of force and energy, utterly unpredictable and not subject to the rational laws and linear flow of time in the way that physical reality is." - Horus Heresy Book I: Betrayal, pg 16
"within its bounds, not even the concept of time holds any meaning. A champion may battle within this twisted realm for long months and discover upon his return to reality that only a single day, or an entire century, has passed. " -Warriors of Chaos 8th edition
"The Realm of Chaos is anathema to the laws of physics and ships that navigate its depths do so by taking a skin or bubble of 'reality' with them when they enter." - Codex: Chaos Daemons, pg 7
"At the centre of the Eye of Terror, the powers of the Warp run strongest, meaning the laws of space, time and reality do not apply. Some worlds are flat, floating planes spinning in the ether, others are surrounded by fireballs, while tiered worlds rise up, supported by intertwining pillars. No one can say how these realities exist, save that the pure power of Chaos washes over them and has made them so. Those worlds most steeped in chaotic energy are the abodes of Daemons, and are considered outlying colonies of the Warp, while the outermost planets upon the fringes of the Eye of Terror cling to more of the physical laws of the galaxy. In the centre, time not only does not flow, but also does not exist as a concept, save for when such trivialities might please the Dark Gods themselves." - Index Chaotica

Without offense, please don't paste a wall of text in the staff thread. Instead, use the “insert links” feature to reduce such a post, which makes it easy to follow.
Also, I still did not see any evidence of none interaction statement because of the lack of causality.

"they must be addressed in terms of absolute actions"

"Apsolute actions" implies that one must go beyond cause and effect to do anything, absolute is a heavy word with a lot of implications, but saying "Apsolute Actions" is a very interesting statement here, sure, there's the past present and future part that implies time, but if it really meant only time, why would it say "Apsolute actions"? That sounds suspiciously like having to bypass Cause and effect entirely to effect them to me personally

we have repeated instances of type 4 and normal causality having no effect on the warp, the ones pertaining to time are supporting the whole thing of "none of the Materium's rules exist in the warp", which, as a by product, includes causality, that's why the rest of the scans are there Agnaa, they're supporting evidence.

It has absolutely no relevance here since nothing here explicitly mentions the interaction statement.

@Agnaa Thanks for pinging the staff. I appreciate your input and assistance in this matter.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Without offense, please don't paste a wall of text in the staff thread. Instead, use the “insert links” feature to reduce such a post, which makes it easy to follow.
Also, I still did not see any evidence of none interaction statement because of the lack of causality.

It has absolutely no relevance here since nothing here explicitly mentions the interaction statement.

@Agnaa Thanks for pinging the staff. I appreciate your input and assistance in this matter.

Ah, sorry, forgot this was a staff thread for a moment there lol

It's Invulnerability because of the implications made by the various statements coming together, for instance the various "Materium laws don't exist in the warp" statements on their own is really only a layered acausality 4 seeing as normal causality doesn't effect the warp, however, backed up by the Priests of Mars quote means that the warp is completely immune to effects that exist in the materium because the laws that govern them just don't exist, and with the additional implications of the Path of the Dark Eldar statement implying what you do needs to be an "absolute action" implies that they're invulnerable because of a lack of causality, personally due to the fact it's an implication drawn from several statements coming into one answer I'd put it as possibly/likely type 5 as it is now.

But honestly, if Warhammer is the only verse to have it period then is Acausality 5 really worth keeping around in it's current state? I don't think so, not anymore at least. I will be honest and say I did have a bit of bias coming into this just so I could laugh and say "Warhammer is the only verse with type 5 acausality! **** yeah!" But TBH that's a stupid reason for keeping an ability that isn't verse-specific.

 

[Blackcurrant91]

For reference, the reason the warp has type 5 is because

Reality=regular causality
Reality/Warp overlaps=irregular causality (causality and physics are muteable to anyone with enough psychic power over their environment. Time flows backwards/causality functions backwards, rivers flow backwards etc and matter shifts wildly under different laws of physics.
Warp=transcendant of irregular causality, due to even irregular causality being unable to exist within it. There is no physics/time/causality etc.

Edit: Sorry didn't see this was staff only.

 

[ImmortalDread]

For reference, the reason the warp has type 5 is because

Reality=regular causality
Reality/Warp overlaps=irregular causality (causality and physics are muteable to anyone with enough psychic power over their environment. Time flows backwards/causality functions backwards, rivers flow backwards etc and matter shifts wildly under different laws of physics.
Warp=transcendant of irregular causality, due to even irregular causality being unable to exist within it. There is no physics/time/causality etc.

And where is none- interaction statement explicitly stated due to lack of causality?
Having no physics/time/causality is still insufficient to assume there is no interaction or the character is untouchable.

 

[Blackcurrant91]

And where is none- interaction statement explicitly stated due to lack of causality?
Having no physics/time/causality is still insufficient to assume there is no interaction or the character is untouchable.

Seeing as this is staff only im not gonna bother dealing with anos stans. I happy to address it in a different thread but Slaanesh wasn't even affected by the causality of it's 'Birth'

• "That is how events are viewed from the chronology of the material universe. In the Warp, things are different, for the Immaterium is not bound by linear time, and events do not occur in a strict sequence of cause then effect. As his rival gods reckon it, Slaanesh has always existed in the Warp, and has yet never existed at all." - Codex Chaos Daemons 6th ED

 

[Agnaa]

"they must be addressed in terms of absolute actions"

"Absolute actions" implies that one must go beyond cause and effect to do anything, absolute is a heavy word with a lot of implications, but saying "Absolute Actions" is a very interesting statement here, sure, there's the past present and future part that implies time, but if it really meant only time, why would it say "Absolute actions"? That sounds suspiciously like having to bypass Cause and effect entirely to effect them to me personally

To me, it sounds like it's saying "You can't talk about something happening now, having happened in the past, or happening in the future. You can only talk about an event in absolute terms; whether it happens or not." English isn't very suited for that sort of distinction, but I think that's what it's trying to say.

we have repeated instances of type 4 and normal causality having no effect on the warp, the ones pertaining to time are supporting the whole thing of "none of the Materium's rules exist in the warp", which, as a by product, includes causality, that's why the rest of the scans are there Agnaa, they're supporting evidence.

I don't feel great about that sort of linkage; I'll wait for others to weigh in on it. I'd prefer if it was much more closely linked, like, in the same paragraph, but other people may have different standards, so it may be fine, particularly for a likely/possibly.

And I think it is fine to have an ability that only one verse qualifies for; especially if it's just a type, since other verses may qualify in the future.

And where is none- interaction statement explicitly stated due to lack of causality?
Having no physics/time/causality is still insufficient to assume there is no interaction or the character is untouchable.

Well, the argument would be "Interaction is not possible because it lacks these laws", and then elsewhere saying that causality is one of the laws that doesn't apply.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Well, the argument would be "Interaction is not possible because it lacks these laws", and then elsewhere saying that causality is one of the laws that doesn't apply.

It could work, but the same argument was brought into Graham/Anos's true form, and it declined.
Regardless, even if Anos/Garham and this character qualify, the ability is still not enough to be listed in the wiki for only > 10 characters.
Whatever, let's wait for other opinions. I have counted your vote.

 

[Agnaa]

It could work, but the same argument was brought into Graham/Anos's true form, and it declined.
Regardless, even if Anos/Garham and this character qualify, the ability is still not enough to be listed in the wiki for only > 10 characters.
Whatever, let's wait for other opinions. I have counted your vote.

There is no rule that types of abilities need to have 10 characters qualify to be listed. That just ain't a thing.

 

[ImmortalDread]

There is no rule that types of abilities need to have 10 characters qualify to be listed. That just ain't a thing.

So it can be listed even if it was one character who possibly qualifies it? I somehow heard from members about this unwritten rule.
I can be mistaken.

 

[Agnaa]

It was recently found that four characters in one verse (BlazBlue) actually ended up qualifying for Type 1 Transduality, so it was kept.

I think it depends on the ability, really. If something's very difficult to qualify for, but still substantially different, it can stay even if it only has a few characters.

 

[DaReaperMan]

"they must be addressed in terms of absolute actions"

"Absolute actions" implies that one must go beyond cause and effect to do anything, absolute is a heavy word with a lot of implications, but saying "Absolute Actions" is a very interesting statement here, sure, there's the past present and future part that implies time, but if it really meant only time, why would it say "Absolute actions"? That sounds suspiciously like having to bypass Cause and effect entirely to effect them to me personally

To me, it sounds like it's saying "You can't talk about something happening now, having happened in the past, or happening in the future. You can only talk about an event in absolute terms; whether it happens or not." English isn't very suited for that sort of distinction, but I think that's what it's trying to say.

we have repeated instances of type 4 and normal causality having no effect on the warp, the ones pertaining to time are supporting the whole thing of "none of the Materium's rules exist in the warp", which, as a by product, includes causality, that's why the rest of the scans are there Agnaa, they're supporting evidence.

I don't feel great about that sort of linkage; I'll wait for others to weigh in on it. I'd prefer if it was much more closely linked, like, in the same paragraph, but other people may have different standards, so it may be fine, particularly for a likely/possibly.

And I think it is fine to have an ability that only one verse qualifies for; especially if it's just a type, since other verses may qualify in the future.

And where is none- interaction statement explicitly stated due to lack of causality?
Having no physics/time/causality is still insufficient to assume there is no interaction or the character is untouchable.

Well, the argument would be "Interaction is not possible because it lacks these laws", and then elsewhere saying that causality is one of the laws that doesn't apply.

You know both options are valid... ****, now I'm towards that statement only being possibly type 5 because it can go both ways... I feel both are possible TBH

Eh, when it comes to verses including things as fucky as transcending cause and effect its entirely unrealistic to expect immunity due to that in the same scan, let alone same paragraph, things as fucky as current Acausality 5 and NEP 2 and the like usually have multiple scans in order to make the abilities work, I can see where your coming from, but it's not really realistic.

Considering the Blazblue example, it should be fine, yeah.

Yeah, that's the jist of it

 

[DontTalkDT]

@DontTalkDT essentially, they transcend cause and effect to the point that they don't really have a physical form as a result, which ties to the whole point of them being hard to interact with. Merely having no physical form in of itself, or just being a concept or nonexistent being wouldn't be enough for type 5 if they don't elaborate on them being beyond cause and effect as a result.

So incorporeality via Acausality, which then gives basically just immunity to physical attacks? One could do that... only could equally well just list it as incorporeality + some other acausality type tbh.
Neutral on that, I guess.

 

[ImmortalDread]

So incorporeality via Acausality, which then gives basically just immunity to physical attacks? One could do that... only could equally well just list it as incorporeality + some other acausality type tbh.
Neutral on that, I guess.

I will add your vote as neutral. Thanks for your input