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Xenoverse and Heroes possible separation

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StrymULTRA said:
Tbh, we should even split the DBH continuities as they're contradicting to each other and they don't share the same "canon" like Pokémon or Mario which have an actual statement for such.

For example in UMX, the continuity which has the 2-A feat of Demigra contradicts the Arcade one, due of Goku there for example not being able to go beyond regular SSJ1 or Demigra dying there. UMX versions of the characters (aka Xeno Goku, Demigra, Chamel and Beat) should get 2-A only in their UMX version, while in the "main" DBH continuity they're all Low 2-C at best coz scaling from the DBS characters, with the only 2-As being Time Power Mechikabura and Keysword users.
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And toki toki I think, but for some reason he doesn't have a profile, and fuu/hearts too maybe
 
Dominodalek said:
I've been saying all this from the start, the discussion ban was made in response to these (not countered, obviously) points.
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Tbh, that obviously was wrong as it wasn't even brought up and rejected like the amount of times 2-C BoG Goku was. That ban was obviously wrong and kinda of power abuse if you ask me.
 
Yeah, the Heroes profiles should only follow the Arcade (with Manga and Anime adaptations being used as support when applicable).
 
StrymULTRA said:
No one is asking to make these much continuities, just separating UMX from Main One, Manga/Anime/Arcade still follow the same plot while UMX is completely unrelated to it.
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so what im seeing is that the heroes games will still have the abilities from the manga arcade ect. but for UMX it would be different right?

Also if this gets passed will the heroes profiles still have the 2-A rating?
 
You guys do realize that outside of abilities, scaling for Heroes has little to nothing to do with Xenoverse. We would essentially be doing what is already noted on the profiles if I’m not mistaking
 
I will only point out before I head to sleep that there's still Past Demigra's feat of absorbing Toki Toki and his power which would be bare minimum 2-C but for now I rest
 
AwkguyDB said:
You guys do realize that outside of abilities, scaling for Heroes has little to nothing to do with Xenoverse. We would essentially be doing what is already noted on the profiles if I’m not mistaking
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Despite several characters appearing in both, Dragon Ball Heroes and Dragon Ball Xenoverse do not share a continuity. However we do scale most Xenoverse feats and statements to Heroes, just not vice versa, due to the nature of Heroes incorporating virtually every part of Dragon ball media into itself, and treating the real world world like our own, where the various DB media exists as stories, games etc.
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Not only does Xenoverse's 2-A not scale to Heroes, but neither does Budokai Tenkaichi's "infinite parallel worlds statement", because neither of those games are connected to Heroes' story. While yes, the Heroes game does include characters from all across Dragon Ball's history (y'know, except for the Super manga), the Heroes story does not, and that's the part that matters. Neither of these 2-A cosmologies apply to Heroes' Story Mode, so unless they have 2-A statements of their own, they are going to be downgraded severely.
 
@Antvasima

This is non-canon extended lore, Hop is not knowledgeable in such material. Mainly because its game content. It's behind a hefty paywall and several dozen long hour story mode. Not worth it for Hop.
 
Not exactly sure why the Tier would change tbh

In Xenoverse, the crack of time is rated as a 2A structure and Heroes borrowed all elements and aspects of the Crack of Time and implemented it in Heroes
You'd have to prove the crack of time in heroes is fundamentally different from the one in Heroes and good luck with that because they are exactly the same

Also even if we are going to say that Xenoverse and Heroes don't share the same cosmology, again heroes borrows elements from elements from xenoverse and every other game
Nothing (cosmology wise) in Heroes is different from Xenoverse and vice verse TMK an that's because both cosmologies while not shared, do mirror each other.

The only way I can see a tier change happening is if someone proves their is a fundamental difference between the crack of time in both xenoverse and heroes
 
I agree with the separation of the profiles and the downgrade of Heroes to 2-B.

There is nothing that indicates that the events of Xenoverse happened in Heroes, or even that the two are connected in any way outside of the characters and some vague statements, so any cross scaling between the two shouldn't be applied in my opinion.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
Xenoverse's Crack of Time derives its 2-A structure from containing the already existing 2-A cosmology of Xenoverse.
So, question—how exactly would Heroes' Crack of Time be 2-A as well if there isn't an infinite amount of universes to contain in Heroes?
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Because TMK the statement about Xenoverse CoT containing all time periods that have, currently and ever will exist, Heroes CoT adheres to the same logic/ functions similarly to that logic and hasn't done anything to contradict it
 
Nullflowerblush said:
Again, I understand that the Crack of Time serves the same purpose across both games—contain all of history. But again, Heroes does not contain infinite history like Xenoverse does.
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My point was that the statement of Crack of Time containing all timelines that have, will, or do exist and the fact that all those timelines already exist means that the timelines are already there/present/formed hence 2A crack of time

So that is what ultimately decided that the crack of time is a 2A structure. Xenoverse's infinite history was ANOTHER SEPARATE REASON as to why Xenoverse is 2A but even before and After that the Crack of Time was decided to be a 2A structure because of that statement above in italic bold

So what I'm saying is if that statement alone made the Crack of Time 2A and the same statement applies to Heroes Crack of Time then why wouldn't Heroes crack of time be 2A as well?
 
Ss3micah said:
My point was that the statement of Crack of Time containing all timelines that have, will, or do exist and the fact that all those timelines already exist means that the timelines are already there/present/formed hence 2A crack of time
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Heroes does not have any statement of its Multiverse encompassing infinite possibilities like Xenoverse does. Unless a statement of infinite universes/timespaces/possibilities existing in Heroes is out there, all they have to work off of is the Crimson-Masked Saiyan claiming he visited countless timespaces, and Trunks in the original manga stating that every action creates a few future timeline, essentially causing an endless creation of timelines, but not an infinite one.
 
Pretty sure there’s multiple different versions of DBH lore. Hell I remember there was like a 3DS game where it was said Xeno Goku had God Ki. So i think it would probably be beneficial to standardize what should be used and not making Xeno Goku basically just composite Goku under a different name
 
Nullflowerblush said:
Yeah, the Heroes profiles should only follow the Arcade (with Manga and Anime adaptations being used as support when applicable).
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I don't really see any reason to have keys for the Ultimate Mission X titles, or World Mission, or Victory Mission for 99% of the Heroes characters (the exception being Beat, of course, but he isn't involved in the Story Mode anyway). The Arcade Story Mode, which is the plot being adapted currently, is the one that the profiles should be based off of—everything else is superfluous.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
Heroes does not have any statement of its Multiverse encompassing infinite possibilities like Xenoverse does. Unless a statement of infinite universes/timespaces/possibilities existing in Heroes is out there, all they have to work off of is the Crimson-Masked Saiyan claiming he visited countless timespaces, and Trunks in the original manga stating that every action creates a few future timeline, essentially causing an endless creation of timelines, but not an infinite one.
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And I have to admit you have a point right there
My point however is that the crack of time is a SEPARATE STRUCTURE FROM THE MULTIVERSE and the Statement of the Crack of Time contains all timelines that have, will, or do exist alone BY ITSELF is what made the CoT in XV a 2A Structure

In Heroes the CoT exists and the same statement applies to it. So even if Heroes doesn't have a 2A multiverse, what stops the CoT in heroes from being a 2A structure when the exact same statement is what lead XV crack of time to become a 2A structure

This isn't a question about the multiverse's structure but about the CoT structure
 
Nullflowerblush said:
Yeah, the Heroes profiles should only follow the Arcade (with Manga and Anime adaptations being used as support when applicable).
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Dark Demon Realm Saga -> Dark Empire Saga -> Dark King Mechikabura Saga -> Prison Planet Saga -> Universal Conflict Saga -> Universe Creation Saga -> New Space-Time War Saga
Arcade, Manga and Anime all follow them.

Domino said this is how heroes will work
 
Okay, look.

The Crack of Time contains all of history, all of the present, and all of the future. That is correct.

In Xenoverse, history branches off infinitely, there exist infinite parallel worlds, and there are an infinite amount of possibilities. Therefore, the Crack of Time in Xenoverse is 2-A. In Heroes, the cosmology takes after the Super anime, and as such, there are only a seemingly finite history, a seemingly finite amount of present timelines, and an uncountable amount of possibilities. All of that points towards 2-B, and even then, has a character ever threatened the Crack of Time before? The only character who has even come close to that was Dark King Mechikabura, but even then, he only absorbed the existing timelines—the Crack of Time was not brought up, to my knowledge.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
Okay, look.

The Crack of Time contains all of history, all of the present, and all of the future. That is correct.

In Xenoverse, history branches off infinitely, there exist infinite parallel worlds, and there are an infinite amount of possibilities. Therefore, the Crack of Time in Xenoverse is 2-A. In Heroes, the cosmology takes after the Super anime, and as such, there are only a seemingly finite history, a seemingly finite amount of present timelines, and an uncountable amount of possibilities. All of that points towards 2-B, and even then, has a character ever threatened the Crack of Time before? The only character who has even come close to that was Dark King Mechikabura, but even then, he only absorbed the existing timelines—the Crack of Time was not brought up, to my knowledge.
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Ohhhhh now I see what you were thinking

Alright let me be more clearer this time around

Even if XV had a 2B Infinitely Expanding multiverse, the crack of time would still be 2A for having all those infinitely expanding timelines/worlds already and presently exist in the crack of time

So given that, what do you have to say now
 
Nullflowerblush said:
Okay, look.

The Crack of Time contains all of history, all of the present, and all of the future. That is correct.

In Xenoverse, history branches off infinitely, there exist infinite parallel worlds, and there are an infinite amount of possibilities. Therefore, the Crack of Time in Xenoverse is 2-A. In Heroes, the cosmology takes after the Super anime, and as such, there are only a seemingly finite history, a seemingly finite amount of present timelines, and an uncountable amount of possibilities. All of that points towards 2-B, and even then, has a character ever threatened the Crack of Time before? The only character who has even come close to that was Dark King Mechikabura, but even then, he only absorbed the existing timelines—the Crack of Time was not brought up, to my knowledge.
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Also about this
The according to multiple characters, the world itself was absorbed and nothing existed anymore. The crack of time also doesn't exist because it contains all worlds and they said everything in world ceased to exist

Also anyone who scales to Mechi would be affected

TPU Mechi would 2A
SS4 Gohan would have 2A Durability
SS4 Vegito would be 2A
SSG Trunks would be 2A
Dark King Fu would be 2A
SSB Vegito would be 2A
Keysword 2A

Thats all I can think of at the moment
 
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