• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Xenoblade downgrade

Status
Not open for further replies.
@Glassman

Don't have much time but I'd like to give ya piece of information we got recently that actually helps DDM's case. We find out in the new Xenoblade DE trailer that Alvis is Ontos. The same Ontos that triggered the event.
 
I'll do ya one better. Here's the image, basically Alvis got redesigned to have a core crystal on his chest (The only redesign so far). This core crystal is the same design as Malos's and Pyra's which only Aegises have so its would be only logical for him to be Ontos going by not only the Crystal but the lore as well.

CoreCrystal
 
soooooo they removed his key and replaced it with a core crystal............ What was the key even for anyway?
 
Alright then, so the Conduit and the Zohar actually share similar abilities through the fact that they both act as the main source of ether in the multiverse. Then, there's also the fact that Siren from XC2 and Gears in Xenogears both run on slave generators that draw power from the Conduit/Zohar.
 
Not sure, I remember reading about it being a metaphor for Alvis being/having the "key" to everything. Funny enough Ontos itself means "Existence" so I guess that makes sense.
 
Except you didn't have to be so assumptive or profane about it. But okay, enough of that. There were in depth explanations about many worlds interpretation being made literal at least in regards to Xenogears/Xenosaga. We're not ignorant, I'm actually extremely open-minded and considerate. And have a well diverse variety of knowledge. But we already gave better examples below.

It was the Conduit who transformed Klaus and Galea into gods via the Space-Time transition event. And it's implied all their godly powers comes from their Monados. And the Monados are all parts of Alvis. And actually, the new trailer (Pause the video at 1:37) does showcase having an Aegis core crystal on his chest. Which actually would explain him being Ontos. Also, Alvis is shaped like a Golden Cross much like the Conduit during the ending scene. Alvis being the Monado or a Sword, is consistent with all Core Crystals and the Aegises being "Blades". Also it was common knowledge for Alvis to be viewed as the true creator of said Universe.

Really? Is it that big of a reach? I've seen people push for 1-A or Tier 0 upgrades based on far more vague or hyperbolic descriptions, this is hardly reaching. Anyway, it wasn't just the dictionary definition. But look at the words Process of selecting. The literally definition of process of selection is two or more possibility choices. And after those three words, it says phenomena. Meaning each phenomena is a possibility and it's also a universe. Florida already showed you the thing in that other page.

It's still a back up detail. The infinite paths thing. "Changing the future" is still used symbolically or metaphorically rather than literally. There's an explanation in this video that there's no difference between illusion and reality. Just visions of alternate realities and coming in contact with the present reality is the difference. And it's another one of those verses where each and every single persons Dream is an alternate Universe. Or each and every existing imagination is an alternate universe. This is further explained in the Collective Unconscious and/or the Imaginary Numbers Domain. But going to get to that stuff later. But rather, the past, present, and future, and an infinite number of all of those always exist within the multiverse. So rather than infinite number of ways to change the future, it's more so there's already and infinite number of futures that those can enter. And that's what is meant by Infinite paths.

Actually, the have the exact same abilities of you look at other details. They're both stated to be "Infinite energy engines", and in the Conduit's case, it's what every single Artifice draws its power from in the same case every single Gear draws power from Zohar. Especially Artifice Aion and Deus respectively. The Zohar also serves as a door way between alternate realities and alternate paths much like the Conduit description. And it's what happens in the end of Xenosaga Episode III about Kos-Mos getting teleported/drifting through the interdimensional gateway to an unknown alternate reality.

As mentioned above, there is a very specific "Far Flung Dimension" that not even those with Multiverse wide Cosmic Awareness are able to see. And that's where it's energy draws from. You may not see the statement alone as a plane of higher infinity, but the all the side connections are literally there. And the Conduit would naturally drain energy from other universes and not just that far flung dimension if that far flung dimension was just a generic Universe. Not to mention, either parallel universes would need to be infinite in size, or there need to be an infinite number of universes for there to be an infinite amount of energy. Also, Kos-Mos's weapons are designed to look just like the Zohar and has a Zohar shaped crystal on her chest. But in XB2, those weapons and her core crystal are Conduit shaped.
 
Sure, I'm willing to drop it as soon as DDM stops it with these accusations of me.
 
I still think 2-A should stay for other reasons I layed out. We finally found 100% concrete evidence for Xenogears and Xenosaga both having and Infinite number of timelines. And the last thing is connections that Xenosaga and Xenoblade are the same multiverse.

And yeah, Ontos is derived from the Greek word Ousia, which was what he was called in the Japaneses version. And it means Truth or Existence. In fact there some trivia on this.

  • Ousia was also the Greek name for God the Father.
  • Logos, which was Malos' true name was Greek for God the Son
  • And Pneuma, was the Holy Spirit
  • In other words.
But yeah, the fact that Alvis' original name has Existence as its meaning, and have the same Golden Cross in a Green star as his character design at end game very similar to Wave Existence. And the fact that he's this Omniscient diety who's surprisingly humble despite his status further hints the parallel connections.
 
XDragnoir said:
Since Xeno saga and blade are conected, could XB be upgraded to 1C in the future?
Click to expand...
It's possible, but that's a different thread for a different day. Maybe Future Connected can provide some additional support for it. For now I'm in favor of 2-A remaning FRA.
 
@Dragon Yes I say that is a massive reach when you have to twist a definition of one word and somehow equating that to another word that has no connection whatsoever aside from headcanon. Again you're making massive headcanons there by taking a term "process of selection" and making that the same thing as possibilities.

A backup detail that means nothing in this entire conversation. She did not talk about how there's infinite realities based on future events, she's talking about how you can change the world even if destiny deemed them to be gone. Where did you even get that info that there's infinite pasts, presents and futures and that anyone can just go in there, as opposed to changing the future by just not doing what people expect others to do.

The Conduit powering others is not the same as drawing energy from a higher dimensional being. How about you give me actual proof that it can do the exact same thing the Zohar can do?

Far Flung dimension that's not remotely elaborated on, and has no proof whatsoever that it has anything to do with the Wave Existance's higher dimension aside from headcanon.

Further connections that aren't remotely elaborated on aside from theories instead of legit canon. And again, databooks flat out say 3rd dimension twice instead of 4th dimension, so yeah I still find doubts on Xenogears being on that level when the scans contradict each other.

@XDragnoir Sure once we get everything in Saga as well as proof that Alvis is on the level of the Upper Domain.
 
@Glassman

I don't feel Ike there's really a point in arguing about whether or not phenomena are the same as possibilities when we've already established that to be true. Same goes for the verse having a 2-A structure through the infinite amount of phenomena /possibilities.

The Zohar actually has all the same abilities in Xenosaga too, except for drawing power from the Wave Existence. This is because the Wave Existence didn't always reside within the Zohar and because the Wave Existence is also freed from the Zohar near the end of Xenogears. So If anything, that probably just shows that Xenoblade and Xenosaga take place at different times than Xenogears.
 
the timeframe regarding when Gears, Saga and Blade took place wasn't my argument. I'm arguing that there's no solid proof that the Conduit can just do the same thing as the Zohar when their whole purpose is stated to function differently from one another.
 
But the thing is, you described the main function of the Zohar as drawing power from a higher-dimensional being, when the same function isn't shown or depicted in any other game because the Wave-Existence was set completely free from the Zohar and returned to the Upper Domain through the Path of Sephirot. There's also one other thing I can think of that draws another parallel between them, but I trying to look for scans about it right now.
 
@Glassman, could you not use the overused term Headcanon? Anyway, it's not headcanon, and I did not make this. And I honestly, I can't believe you would sink so low to make that bold accusation of me. So no, look up of the word possibility, this is a basic fundamental. I literally feel like I'm arguing with someone who's trying to tell me that 2 + 2 =/= 4. That's literally the argument I'm hearing. There exists and alternate reality where you do say 4, but there also exists alternate reality where you answered any number between Negative infinity and infinity. Anyway, I thought you said you were going to stop with the aggression, but you only got worse now. I have actually tried avoid using accusations, but I don't appreciate you yelling at me all the time. I don't make headcanons and I never have, I look for accuracy. No more and no less.

Anyway, back to the main topic. Shion said there's an infinite number of paths to choose from; meaning there's an infinite number of futures to potentially see. Anyway, the other two statements spoken by Nephilim and Wave Existence, so confirm the infinite number of Phenomena which means infinite number of Universes. So why are we still arguing this since the other two statements are more than enough to confirm 2-A structure.

The Conduit draws as much power from the "Far Flung Dimension" as much as the Zohar draws from the Upper Domain. I gave proof, multiple times. Watch the Meeting the Architect Video again. It also bares the same design; being a Golden Latin Cross. Also, the Conduit was originally going to be called the Zohar within the in game datafiles. Also, the Zohar does appear on Pyra's chest.

Again with the baseless assumptions and lack of knowledge on the details. Wave Existence is literally stated to be above and beyond all time and space. But actually this has even more details. They outright describe the Real Number Domain alone as being the "Dimensional Universe". Search that using Ctrl+F and make sure to put the " and " around "Dimensional Universe" for easy search. And the following paragraph, it describes the Imaginary Number Domain as being an upper dimensional plane above the Real Number Domain.

Once again, "Falling to the 3rd dimension" is just an oxymoron, and Aeyu said this. It just means the humans who were gifted with the Zohar can use the powers from the upper dimension. But anyway, in the list, it I linked regarding the 37 pages of Xenosaga Perfect Guide. It literally says, the Upper Domain is to the Lower Domain what the 3rd dimension is to the 2nd and what the 4th dimensions is to the 3rd. Lower Domain alone contains the Real Number Domain and the Imaginary Numbers Domain, which the latter is a plane of higher infinity above the Realm Number Domain. And the Real Number Domain is a 4-dimensional Universe. Regarding the Jungian Psychology of the Collective Unconscious. Furthermore, this doesn't even include Path of Sephirot or the Upper Domain both being yet planes of higher infinities above them. So however you look at it, Wave Existence is definitely Tier 1.

Also, taking place in different time periods or different universes has nothing against them being different multiverses. Also, the scan confirms the existence of multiple Wave Existences, which U-Do is simply one of them.
 
@Dragon

I generally agree with what you're saying here, but I'd refrain from escalating tensions with Glassman. Like Josh said earlier, it really only serves to derail the thread a bit.
 
I was trying to avoid it actually. I know Josh has good intentions, but what he just said is still far too rude to just ignore. "Headcanon" is generally a taboo word to use around here due to how overused it is.
 
@Dragon Are you seriouly getting this triggered because I'm using the term headcanon when describing your statements that aren't remotely proven by the games? And nowhere am I yelling at you or Josh or Florida in these comments whatsoever. If I was I would be typing in all caps. I did look up Possibility and guess what, it was nowhere near the process of selecting, maybe instead of you constantly insulting me and telling me that I'm stupid, how about you double check your work before you try to make these statements on Possibilities being on the same text as Phenomenon, especially if you look for accuracy, no more no less.

I'm arguing against your point on Shion saying that the infinite paths for the future equates to infinite universes. I never said I disagree with 2-A.

That trivia said that it was inspired by the Zohar, not that it is the Zohar, so they based it off the machine as a nod to the machine as opposed to it being the exact same machine.

Oh great, thanks for not giving her the full context on what exactly I said. I said that the databook you guys sent me to proof higher dimension said he fell into the 3rd Dimension. Maybe give that piece of info to her next time you chat with her since you like to look for accuracy, no more no less.
 
I will note, that I have been stressed. And I do apologize for the misunderstandings. And might have been too blunt, but there were still plenty of mis-characterizations of me. First of all, calling people rude, obnoxious, narrow-minded, or condescending isn't really insulting. It's constructive criticism. And I never once in the entire thread called you "Stupid". That would have been an example of an insult, but that's why I never said it. You're obviously not stupid, but I do strongly feel like there was some hypocrisy in that line because not once have I called you that and I know from experience the things you said to me offsite. As well as some obvious self fulfilling prophecies on your end. And perhaps "For your own good" was too blunt, but that's why I removed it. Maybe there was an implication when I said "I feel like I'm arguing with someone who's claiming 2 + 2 =/= 4", but that's more so an implication and not a direct statement. And more importantly, I was comparing your arguments to statements like that rather than you specifically. But rather, I was getting really annoyed to even debate regarding something that should be common sense. Narrow-minded isn't even close to meaning "Stupid". Narrow-Minded is more so a synonym of ignorant or someone with a self centered mind set. A person could be very intelligent and still be narrow-minded. So in other words, I never once directly insulted you on this thread or ever period. I simply called you out for your behavior and reasoning which is what I'm supposed to do if people are being are being rude or aggressive. And no, this isn't slander because I have legit seen you act rude a lot on many threads. Constructive criticism is simply giving honest feedback. And I was perfectly stating my own honest opinion when calling you those things.

Also, just because text wasn't in all caps doesn't mean people aren't yelling. Not everyone actually uses punctuation or all caps to express emotion and just do it with normal text. Profanity and usage of 3rd commandment breaks are typical signs of yelling at people. And mainly just words or snarky attitudes that are considered disrespectful and/or aggressive in general also qualify as yelling. But either way, regardless of whether not you consider it yelling, it was still a snarky attitude that no one appreciated.

And I'm not one to trigger that easily, but have personally experienced of things you said to me offsite. So I'm not relying on assumptions. But still, there is a constant persistency going on here and other places. And in fact, you're the one who's actually called me that insult word and other synonyms multiple times on multiple occasions. And given someone who used to be good friends with me, I expected much better behavior.

Anyway, google searching "Define possibility" gives me three definitions. One of which is a course of action, thing, or person that is selected or decided upon. There is a synonym for choice. And looking up "Choice" is also a synonym for selection. Selection process is literally just 2 or more choices. This is basically what the "Many Worlds Interpretatio" theory regarding the existence of an alternate reality for each and every single choice there is to make, which is a big part of Xenosaga means. Is that for each and every choice, their is an alternate universe. Jungian theories are mentioned both in the guidebooks and in some of the games. That was what I needed to get out of the way. So I never understood what all these cherry picks left and right were all about. Also, the keyword still said "Selecting phenomena." So in other words, selections, choices, and possibilities all mean the same thing. I did double check my work, multiple times.

Okay then, but it's still a back up statement worth bringing up. If used by itself, then sure. I can see iffiness. But it's one of many statements that exist regarding infinite set of potential phenomena. And Florida actually shared another explanation for how phenomena equates to universes.

Well, it seems we finally agree they're the same multiverse. And it also doesn't change the fact that Malos was going to "Destroy all existence". And he does so using Artifice Aion, which is empowered by the Conduit.

  • Both founded in Africa during the early 21st Century
  • Both stated to be gifts from "Divine Entities"
  • Both are Magnetic Abnormal Matters and Perpetual Motion Machines and Infinite energy engines
  • Both are shaped like Golden Latin Crosses
  • Both are Multiversal gateways or "Meta-Universe Manifolds"
  • Both empower all mechs and robots in their respective universes.
  • Both are controlled by a Trinity of Computers (The Trinity Processesor in Xenoblade's case and U.M.N in Xenosaga's case.
  • Both are what empower the final bosses, Artifice Aion and Zarathustra with the ability to "Destroy all existence" and "Destroy God himself".
  • Both ultimately draw power from a certain "Dimension" and said "Dimension" is more powerful than an infinite number of universes put together.
    • To say it's just one random parallel Universe would imply that that one parallel universe is equal to any other. But the fact that that one just so happens to either be hidden away from those with 2-A levels of cosmic awareness actually requires far more assumptions then to just say it's the "Upper Domain" or at least the "Imaginary Numbers Domain" given they both exist.
    • Imaginary Numbers Domain alone has "Above and beyond all time and space" as it's description to prove that alone is Low 1-C to quote Ultima Reality on another thread.
I did mention that I gave to the specific pages, and that said pages mentioning him falling to the 3rd dimension actually.
 
That's not remotely constructive criticisms dude, constructive criticisms would be you giving me feedback on what I did good and what I need to improve on, saying someone's rude, obnoxious, narrow-minded, or condescending does not remotely give any form of feedback except for slander. You saying that you're arguing with someone who's telling you 2+2=/=4 is as close as you can get to calling me stupid without flat out saying the word stupid.

For me I will use all caps when I am legitimately yelling. So there, now you know.

Ok first off, you said to search the word possibility in that Xenogears book, I did, and nowhere in the entire page where they reference phenomena being equated to universes did they ever say the word possibility, or possibilities.

a Dimension that has no elaboration on what exactly it is. It can easily be some far away dimension that's sealed away from other people to find.

Well I don't see you referencing that in the conversations that you showed me, nor was there any hint that Aeyu remotely got that information, but whatever.

I'm just gonna close this thread, it's been opened up longer than it should now that I finally got some form of proof that 2-A exists now instead of some random line that has nothing to do with the multiverse.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

CloverDragon03
  • Locked
Xenoblade Chronicles 2: Early/Mid-Game & Torna AP Upgrade
Replies
33
Views
2K
DarkDragonMedeus
DarkDragonMedeus
CloverDragon03
  • Locked
Xenoblade Chronicles (Series) CRT: Lifting Strength Revisions
2
Replies
40
Views
2K
DarkDragonMedeus
DarkDragonMedeus
CloverDragon03
  • Locked
Xenoblade Chronicles CRT: Z's Reality-Fiction Transcendence and a New Cosmology
Replies
34
Views
3K
CloverDragon03
CloverDragon03
JoshSSJGod
  • Locked
Introduction of Xenoblade 3 to the wiki + bonus stuff that didn't take me as long as last time.
2 3 4
Replies
155
Views
7K
DarkDragonMedeus
DarkDragonMedeus
Questions relating to the Xeno series
Replies
0
Views
648
Wildblack1
Back
Top