Xeno Goku vs. Shulk

[Thatsafloridathing]

When exactly were the effects of Purge stated to be dependant on power nullification?

 

[Thatsafloridathing]

I think... so?

Not really sure, there's no real "Size" given for the Multiverse in Shulk's page.

Speaking of Monado Purge, can't Goku counter-fire it? It has all these haxes and stuff sure but if Goku just punts it away with massively stronger AP, it wouldn't do much.

I think I'm a bit confused. How exactly would punting it away work?

 

[Akreious]

When exactly were the effects of Purge stated to be dependant on power nullification?

From my limited knowledge, the Wikia page for Monado Purge says that it works by basically nullifying the opponent's ability to use ether which comes with all the other haxes in response to the lack of Ether usage. Quibster's logic is if Goku resists the Nullification of Monado Purge, the after-shocks (Other haxes) does not take affect since it's a direct cause from the Nullification.

I think I'm a bit confused. How exactly would punting it away work?

Monado Purge only works if it actually hits Goku. If Goku overpowers and knocks it away and/or destroys the Monado Purge attack, then Shulk's Monado Purge Hax is bypassed.

 

[JoshSSJGod]

The wiki is inaccurate with a bunch of stuff. It was never stated to work like that and is contradicted by evidence shown in cutscenes.

Also if we're treating Ki and Ether as the same then what's stopping Shulk from just sapping all of Goku's Ki out of him?

 

[JoshSSJGod]

Oh yes and Shulk's Perception Manip does actually affect Ki Sensing. This was decided upon in Shulk and Goku's Low 2-C match were Shulk hax-stomped.

 

[Thatsafloridathing]

The wikia page doesn't say anything about nullifying the opponent's ability to use ether. It nullifies enemy auras and takes away passive abilities, but that doesn't have anything to do with perception manipulation or paralysis inducement.

I don't understand how he'd be able to destroy an attack that isn't inherently physical in nature.

 

[Akreious]

Oh yes and Shulk's Perception Manip does actually affect Ki Sensing. This was decided upon in Shulk and Goku's Low 2-C match were Shulk hax-stomped.

Reasoning? Just for redundancy since previous threads hasn't always been entirely accurate.

The wiki is inaccurate with a bunch of stuff. It was never stated to work like that and is contradicted by evidence shown in cutscenes.
Also if we're treating Ki and Ether as the same then what's stopping Shulk from just sapping all of Goku's Ki out of him?

The fact that this Goku has access to Godly Ki which is entirely separate from normal Ki helps a ton.

Also Goku can do the same thing with the "Draw" ability.

Also Senzu bean.

The wikia page doesn't say anything about nullifying the opponent's ability to use ether. It nullifies enemy auras and takes away passive abilities, but that doesn't have anything to do with perception manipulation or paralysis inducement.
I don't understand how he'd be able to destroy an attack that isn't inherently physical in nature.

It's logical deduction. Ether is inherently tied to life force given that... it is life force and the nullification of it would indeed cause perception and paralysis if one were to have a screwed up Ether system or whatever.

Goku has Non-Physical Interaction. It does not matter whether or not Monado Purge is physical in nature.

 

[Schnee_One]

Shulk via looking at infinite futures, picking one in which he wins, and wins.

Anyway

Any reason I don't close this for being a stomp?

 

[Akreious]

Shulk via looking at infinite futures, picking one in which he wins, and wins.
Anyway

Any reason I don't close this for being a stomp?

Other than the fact that that's literally not on Shulk's page...?

 

[Quibster]

This wiki is also very inaccurate at times.

This is like the whole Bleach / Naruto energy argument all over again. They're both different. Period.

 

[Schnee_One]

Precognition is indeed on Shulks page actually.

 

[Akreious]

This wiki is also very inaccurate at times.
This is like the whole Bleach / Naruto energy argument all over again. They're both different. Period.

I don't see why they're different. They're described the same and so far there's nothing that screams that they're different whatsoever.

Precognition is indeed on Shulks page actually.

Precognition is on Shulk's Page. Picking and choosing a future is not.

 

[JoshSSJGod]

After this I'mma gonna head to bed. So here we go.

• Purge has nullified the senses of beings who have more than the typical amount and those who have similar abilities such as the Telethia who read minds and use ether to sense people such as when they sensed Shulk at the lake and attacked.

• God Ki would help but thanks to verse equalisation here we can it counts as well due to being near identical.

• Does not really do anything to Shulk as he manipulates the Ether around him.

• Nothing is stopping Shulk from precoging Goku using a Senzu which would allow him to play around it or just destroy it.

 

[Quibster]

Precognition is indeed on Shulks page actually.

I don't think that counts as Precog. Might as well give Diavolo that too if that's the basis behind you deeming this match a stomp between a likely 2-B and 2-B character.

 

[Thatsafloridathing]

I don't see why they're different. They're described the same and so far there's nothing that screams that they're different whatsoever.

Precognition is indeed on Shulks page actually.

Precognition is on Shulk's Page. Picking and choosing a future is not.

I thought that the way Shulk's precognition worked was already mentioned on the thread before?

 

[Schnee_One]

Why would Diavolo have it? He doesn't look into the future last I checked.

@Akreious Isn't that the exact same thing? Performing the further by which you know will win is precognition, unless you're confusing that with fate Manip I.E. Yhwach

 

[JoshSSJGod]

Shulk via looking at infinite futures, picking one in which he wins, and wins.

Anyway

Any reason I don't close this for being a stomp?

You can if you believe so but wouldn't a win-con for Goku be if Shulk makes a mistake like with his Lightning match?

 

[Akreious]

Alright I'll keep things as short as possible to possibly catch you before you head to bed.

"Purge has nullified the senses of beings who have more than the typical amount and those who have similar abilities such as the Telethia who read minds and use ether to sense people such as when they sensed Shulk at the lake and attacked."

Alright fair enough. Now the problem is landing Monado Purge.

"God Ki would help but thanks to verse equalisation here we can it counts as well due to being near identical."

Actually no. Ether is near identical to Regular Ki. It would not be equalized to Godly Ki. They're two completely separate entities.

"Does not really do anything to Shulk as he manipulates the Ether around him."

Manipulates the Ether around him... which Goku can also do.

"Nothing is stopping Shulk from precoging Goku using a Senzu which would allow him to play around it or just destroy it."

IIRC Shulk's Precognition operates via him activating it or sensing danger. There would be no reason for Shulk to precog Goku eating a bean of all things.

 

[Quibster]

There are manga scans specifically stating that Diavolo can look into the future by a few seconds with Epitaph. Even says so in the Anime.

Despite having this, Diavolo still loses in some matchups. Notably his fight with Giorno.

 

[Schnee_One]

Thats a second form of his Precog actually.

His precognition is an exact copy of Zanza's who is capable of seeing multiple futures at once.

 

[Akreious]

Why would Diavolo have it? He doesn't look into the future last I checked.
@Akreious Isn't that the exact same thing? Performing the further by which you know will win is precognition, unless you're confusing that with fate Manip I.E. Yhwach

Except the problem is that's a possible future. Unlike Yhwach, Shulk isn't able to actually choose a future.

It's a possible future out of what, how many possibilities? There is absolutely no guarantee Goku would go along with what you saw- it's a possible Future. Not the absolute one.

Also this is more of a know-how question, how would Precognition even work if the fight is taken outside of any timeline? There's no "Future" in the outside of Timelines since... there's no timeline there to see futures of.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

Why are we talking about Jojo?

 

[Quibster]

Because Precog.

 

[Thatsafloridathing]

Except the problem is that's a possible future. Unlike Yhwach, Shulk isn't able to actually choose a future.

It's a possible future out of what, how many possibilities? There is absolutely no guarantee Goku would go along with what you saw- it's a possible Future. Not the absolute one.

Also this is more of a know-how question, how would Precognition even work if the fight is taken outside of any timeline? There's no "Future" in the outside of Timelines since... there's no timeline there to see futures of.

Zanza has a similar type of precog to Shulk's, but even he's able to discern which future will happen.

 

[Schnee_One]

Some guy brought up Diavolo for some reason.

I'm not sure what you're getting at with the first thing you're stating, Shulk can't pick a future, fine, but he still sees a future where he wins so he performs the actions taken To win it.

As many as need be for possible futures, hundreds if not thousands of different things can happen within a fight, Goku missing a punch, Shulk landing a hit with Monaco Purge etc.

I'm sorry I have no idea what you mean here, SBA means this fight takes place in New York, not some place outside of a timeline.

 

[Quibster]

That hurts. I have a name y'know...

Oh lovely. SBA. Goku levels surrounding continent, if not the entire planet and sea water engulfs all of NY and/or the United States, Canada, and possibly Greenland.

It's obvious Goku has a hilarious AP advantage. I honestly don't see Shulk dodging a Super Spirit Bomb, let alone tanking it without getting maimed like a deer seeing the headlights of an oncoming car.

Also, I agree with Schnee the whole hypothetical "taken outside a timeline" fight thing. It's confusing. Sorry.

 

[Quibster]

Xeno Goku will find a way to deal with Shulk's precog though. He's been in trickier situations before.

Also, I'm kind of curious as to how Shulk uses his RW abilities, and if it's combat applicable; which still has yet to be explained.

 

[Schnee_One]

Why would Goku level the surrounding continent? I don't know this much about Goku so I don't know if he became a sociopathic bastard with little regard for human life.

Goku has never dealt with Precog as good as Shulks last I checked

 

[Quibster]

Who said that Humanity was involved? This takes place in NY. Is there a rule where there says that people and bystanders are included in the fight? If not, then I'm under the impression that they're on an Earth where any other sentient life is not included.

The fight revolves around Xeno Goku and Shulk.

Not Xeno Goku, Shulk, and Humanity.

Having people involved will just impede their fight, which is something that they'll likely quit fighting over and come to and understanding.

 

[Schnee_One]

Humanity is indeed a part of the Earth even during fights, just look at the majority of the thing fights, so they are a part of the planet unless stated otherwise

Not like it matters, Xeno Goku doesn't bust the earth immediately as his first motion in character ever and even if he did Shulk can survive in space, so I'm not sure where you're going with that.

 

[Quibster]

According to what rule? There are no clear official specifications on having bystanders in fights, nor should they be included for obvious reasons. Make a CRT for this, otherwise my argument still stands.

Hell, can Shulk survive a point-blank planetary explosion? Vegeta in Dragon Ball Super wasn't able to, and he was in Super Saiyan Blue against Frieza.

 

[Schnee_One]

What exactly states that bystanders are not in the fight? I don't recall this being a real and it's why civilians are involved in fights with the thing, I see no reason to make one

He survived the universe being destroyed and resetting. Vegeta had literally nothing to do with this fight either so I don't get your point with him.

 

[Akreious]

Goku can go in and out of timelines whenever he wish, the battle need not stay in New York whatsoever.

Schnee, I'm almost 100% sure we assume there are no bystanders in a normal battle like this one. The battle is set here but there isn't bystanders or whatever otherwise the battlefield would inherently favour the bad guys.

 

[Schnee_One]

The Thing (John Carpenter)

Literally look at any match with this guy.

If we do have a thread on bystanders being involved in a battle or not let me know, I have seen repeated contradictions to this.

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

Wait, wouldn't SBA take care of there being bystanders for the Thing? Because that would be necessary for the Thing to function at full potential.

Hence, wouldn't that mean there isn't a hard rule about if they're are bystanders or not? They're there if they are needed and not present if not unless specified?

 

[Schnee_One]

There should be a rule specifying that tbh

 

[Akreious]

So... should we do that before proceeding? Make a thread about it? Because if the Earth is just deserted in this match, Xeno Goku will have absolutely 0% care about blowing it up. Just another planet. Heck in Heroes, "Dragon Ball Super Goku and Vegeta" blew up an entire galaxy and didn't give any craps about it.


Goku and Vegeta SSJGODSSJ destroy a galaxy

This is a cutscene from the storyline so I think it should work, especially since SS3 Xeno Goku is from Heroes specifically.

 

[BoomerKuwanger1]

If the earth is deserted, Goku just blows up the plaanet to put Shulk down.

voting him.

 

[Thatsafloridathing]

If the earth is deserted, Goku just blows up the plaanet to put Shulk down.

voting him.

Shulk can still survive in space.

 

[BoomerKuwanger1]

Thats not the argument.

Its just that Goku wouldnt hesitate if it would come to that.