Jinsye
She/Her- 10,456
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Shulk's perception manipulation doesn't seem to affect Ki Sensing so it'll do nothing. Goku will know exactly where Shulk is and exactly where to combat him.Thatsafloridathing said:Well, it doesn't look like Goku resists perception manipulation so I'll vote for Shulk here.
Reality warping isn't just locked to one ability. If that were the case, he'd just have EE on his profile.Akreious said:Correct me if I'm wrong but Shulk's Reality Warping seems to be nothing special all things considered and their EE is resisted by Goku anyways.
Also what's the evidence for Monado Purge being paralysis inducement? All references to it I can find says it merely breaks the opponent's aura and certainly doesn't make them unable to move around. And even if it did, Monado Purge is a projectile/blade that can easily be dodged via... dodging as well as Instant Transmission so in no way is it a guaranteed win like you're trying to imply.
And not only that, Shulk's own precognition is going to be countered by Analytical Prediction with the biggest example being in-canon, Goku vs Hit's Rematch where Goku whilst being unable to sense Hit at all is still able to block all of his attacks in a 360 degree arc. Shulk will see Goku's actions into the future and act accordingly, however Goku will act accordingly to Shulk's actions. So what, did Shulk see this exact scenario with his precognition?
Also, while non-canon to this Shulk, just because you have precognition does not mean you can do anything about it. Biggest example is in Smash Bros Ultimate where even though Shulk saw everyone's demise, he could do nill about it. Shulk lacks teleportation or flight- if he's caught in the air unable to move with a fatal move, precognition or not, he's dead.
The final paragraph is irrelevant as Monado Shield at max protects against all precog'd attacks in the game, and it's likely if a fatal blast was heading his way he'd put up Monado shield to null it. Also SSBU is not canon and irrelevant.Akreious said:Correct me if I'm wrong but Shulk's Reality Warping seems to be nothing special all things considered and their EE is resisted by Goku anyways.
Also what's the evidence for Monado Purge being paralysis inducement? All references to it I can find says it merely breaks the opponent's aura and certainly doesn't make them unable to move around. And even if it did, Monado Purge is a projectile/blade that can easily be dodged via... dodging as well as Instant Transmission so in no way is it a guaranteed win like you're trying to imply.
And not only that, Shulk's own precognition is going to be countered by Analytical Prediction with the biggest example being in-canon, Goku vs Hit's Rematch where Goku whilst being unable to sense Hit at all is still able to block all of his attacks in a 360 degree arc. Shulk will see Goku's actions into the future and act accordingly, however Goku will act accordingly to Shulk's actions. So what, did Shulk see this exact scenario with his precognition?
Also, while non-canon to this Shulk, just because you have precognition does not mean you can do anything about it. Biggest example is in Smash Bros Ultimate where even though Shulk saw everyone's demise, he could do nill about it. Shulk lacks teleportation or flight- if he's caught in the air unable to move with a fatal move, precognition or not, he's dead.
I have to agree with this.Hst master said:Don't have too much interest on this match, but that's pretty NLFish. Forcefield Creation isn't gonna protect you from attacks that can one shot you multiple times over.
>He needs feats to say that his forcefield can withstand attacks from someone as powerful as GokuC2 of Omegon said:I have to agree with this.Hst master said:Don't have too much interest on this match, but that's pretty NLFish. Forcefield Creation isn't gonna protect you from attacks that can one shot you multiple times over.
Being able to create forcefields doesn't mean that they'll protect you. Shulk would need feats to say that his forcefield can withstand attacks coming from someone as powerful as Goku.
Monado Speed + precog raises his evasion to avoid the lasers.Quibster said:Someone just took a massive dump on SSBU. Nobody foresaw that one!
Also, How's Shulk gonna dodge an onslaught of massive lasers. How's he gonna land a hit without getting za glare?
Being In-Character and Goku's absolutely hilarious AP advantage which also allows him to glare > Insta-IncapJoshSSJGod said:Alrighty, so what's stopping Shulk from just insta-incapping Goku here?
I agree that having precog doesn't always guarantee that a character can always dodge attacks, but I'd need to know how Diavolo's precog works first if you're going to go ahead and compare them. There's also the fact that Shulk also has extrasensory perception on his profile.Quibster said:Having precog doesn't imply that you can always dodge attacks. Diavolo from JoJo had broken precog and couldn't dodge Giorno's GER Energy Shot. He foresaw it, but couldn't dodge it. Same applies to Shulk here and every other precog user.
Reguardless, I honestly don't see Shulk dodging 100% of the time. Sure, sometimes, but not all of the time. He'll be the one dodging and losing stamina while Goku sits back and fires an onslaught of *exploding* ki-blasts and lasers. It's not like Shulk has Ultra Instinct.
There are even some attacks that Shulk will be put at a disadvantage of like Solar Flare― which could blind the use of his eyes. There's also Kiai, which is an Invisible attack that he cannot see― which is stated to be a Glare. How can Shulk withstand those?
It's also funny how much of an AP advantage Goku has, on top of carrying Senzu Beans, as stated in his profile.
Also, can Shulk fly? If not, then Goku has this in the bag via range, versatility, and mobility advantage. Also AP advantage.
I thought Goku had resistance to Ext Sen., Poison, Heat and Extreme Cold?Thatsafloridathing said:I agree that having precog doesn't always guarantee that a character can always dodge attacks, but I'd need to know how Diavolo's precog works first if you're going to go ahead and compare them. There's also the fact that Shulk also has extrasensory perception on his profile.Quibster said:Having precog doesn't imply that you can always dodge attacks. Diavolo from JoJo had broken precog and couldn't dodge Giorno's GER Energy Shot. He foresaw it, but couldn't dodge it. Same applies to Shulk here and every other precog user.
Reguardless, I honestly don't see Shulk dodging 100% of the time. Sure, sometimes, but not all of the time. He'll be the one dodging and losing stamina while Goku sits back and fires an onslaught of *exploding* ki-blasts and lasers. It's not like Shulk has Ultra Instinct.
There are even some attacks that Shulk will be put at a disadvantage of like Solar Flare― which could blind the use of his eyes. There's also Kiai, which is an Invisible attack that he cannot see― which is stated to be a Glare. How can Shulk withstand those?
It's also funny how much of an AP advantage Goku has, on top of carrying Senzu Beans, as stated in his profile.
Also, can Shulk fly? If not, then Goku has this in the bag via range, versatility, and mobility advantage. Also AP advantage.
Who's to say that Shulk won't just spam ether attacks back at Goku in retaliation to what he sees with his precognition?
How often does Goku use those moves in character though? Also, Shulk can still easily just incap with Purge, Bind or RW, and gradually kill Goku with Poison, Blaze or Chill.
I don't recall anyone disputing Goku's ap advantage anyway, mentioning it again seems redundant when the main point has already been established.
Can you explain that a bit more? Shulk's dealt with many opponents who can fly like the Telethia, Zanza and various in-game fodder enemies to name a few.
Quibster said:Basically the same as Shulk's precog, except he foresees events that are fated to happen. For example, Diavolo could foresee someone's foot being chopped off (via his Stand Epitaph)― but he wouldn't know who's it was. Like Shulk, Diavolo has the power to alter the predetermined course of events by using his ability (via his Stand King Crimson's Time Erase). (But Shulk doesn't have Time Manip. Just an example.)
Also, Extrasensory Perception? Xeno Goku resists due to not being able to be sensed by beings "lesser than a God." it's even listed in Xeno Goku's resistances. Shulk has no God ki. So that argument is tossed out the window.
What exactly do you mean? Shulk's Elemental Attacks? Have you not seen the Shadow-dragon Saga? Goku has dealt with it before. He also resists extreme heat and cold. Fire and Ice are out the window― since he's had experience dealing with both Eis and Nuova Shenron. Even Electricity is something Goku has dealt with before via his experience with Rage Shenron. Air Manipulation too via Oceanus Shenron.
Lastly, about Shulk's Power Nullification via Monado Purge...
Xeno Goku also resists. It's straight up in his profile. "Beings with divinity cannot be affected by Android 21's waves, which can nullify powers."
With Xeno Goku's Analytical Prediction, Information Analysis, Afterimage Creation, Low-Regen as a Super Saiyan 4, Life-Force Absorption, Probability Manipulation, and even Attack Reflection amongst a plethora of other abilities and feats I could mention to further prove my point...
Goku sends Shulk back to school.
I can see why you'd say it's similar, but Shulk's is a bit different. It's passive and by the end of the game, it's superior to Zanza's, who was able to see into every single possibilty, added on with the fact that Zanza manipulates the Passage of Fate.Quibster said:Basically the same as Shulk's precog, except he foresees events that are fated to happen. For example, Diavolo could foresee someone's foot being chopped off (via his Stand Epitaph)― but he wouldn't know who's it was. Like Shulk, Diavolo has the power to alter the predetermined course of events by using his ability (via his Stand King Crimson's Time Erase). (But Shulk doesn't have Time Manip. Just an example.)
Also, Extrasensory Perception? Xeno Goku resists due to not being able to be sensed by beings "lesser than a God." it's even listed in Xeno Goku's resistances. Shulk has no God ki. So that argument is tossed out the window.
What exactly do you mean? Shulk's Elemental Attacks? Have you not seen the Shadow-dragon Saga? Goku has dealt with it before. He also resists extreme heat and cold. Fire and Ice are out the window― since he's had experience dealing with both Eis and Nuova Shenron. Even Electricity is something Goku has dealt with before via his experience with Rage Shenron. Air Manipulation too via Oceanus Shenron.
Lastly, about Shulk's Power Nullification via Monado Purge...
Xeno Goku also resists. It's straight up in his profile. "Beings with divinity cannot be affected by Android 21's waves, which can nullify powers."
With Xeno Goku's Analytical Prediction, Information Analysis, Afterimage Creation, Low-Regen as a Super Saiyan 4, Life-Force Absorption, Probability Manipulation, and even Attack Reflection amongst a plethora of other abilities and feats I could mention to further prove my point...
Goku sends Shulk back to school.
The Monado allows the user to bend ether to their will, I doubt that Shulk would just do one simple slash instead of an omnidirectional attack. Even in the cutscenes, it isn't always just shown to be one slash.Thatsafloridathing said:Monado Purge is easily dodged given that it's a straight up slash, Reality Warping is unquantified right now, and most of Shulk's Status Effects is downright useless on Goku who resists it or has dealt with it in one form or another.
I think... so?Thatsafloridathing said:Don't they have the same level of range though?