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Xeno Goku vs. Shulk

Thatsafloridathing said:
Well, it doesn't look like Goku resists perception manipulation so I'll vote for Shulk here.
Click to expand...
Shulk's perception manipulation doesn't seem to affect Ki Sensing so it'll do nothing. Goku will know exactly where Shulk is and exactly where to combat him.

From what I can see, Shulk scales to "Endless Possibilities" which SSJ3 Goku utterly curbstomps into oblivion as his SS1 form is able to defeat someone who's vastly stronger than their previous self who's able to perform such a feat.

So Shulk will have to heavily spam and rely on Precognition if he's going to even start to dream about surviving a glare from Goku due to the massive AP difference.
 
Shulk's precog is passive though so he is going to heavily spam and rely on it.
 
Ah. And people thought Time Manipulation was more busted. Reality Warping, what fun.

Giving my vote to Shulk.

(...For now.)
 
Correct me if I'm wrong but Shulk's Reality Warping seems to be nothing special all things considered and their EE is resisted by Goku anyways.

Also what's the evidence for Monado Purge being paralysis inducement? All references to it I can find says it merely breaks the opponent's aura and certainly doesn't make them unable to move around. And even if it did, Monado Purge is a projectile/blade that can easily be dodged via... dodging as well as Instant Transmission so in no way is it a guaranteed win like you're trying to imply.

And not only that, Shulk's own precognition is going to be countered by Analytical Prediction with the biggest example being in-canon, Goku vs Hit's Rematch where Goku whilst being unable to sense Hit at all is still able to block all of his attacks in a 360 degree arc. Shulk will see Goku's actions into the future and act accordingly, however Goku will act accordingly to Shulk's actions. So what, did Shulk see this exact scenario with his precognition?

Also, while non-canon to this Shulk, just because you have precognition does not mean you can do anything about it. Biggest example is in Smash Bros Ultimate where even though Shulk saw everyone's demise, he could do nill about it. Shulk lacks teleportation or flight- if he's caught in the air unable to move with a fatal move, precognition or not, he's dead.
 
Akreious makes some compelling arguments. Especially that last paragraph― though... is SSBU canon?
 
Akreious said:
Correct me if I'm wrong but Shulk's Reality Warping seems to be nothing special all things considered and their EE is resisted by Goku anyways.

Also what's the evidence for Monado Purge being paralysis inducement? All references to it I can find says it merely breaks the opponent's aura and certainly doesn't make them unable to move around. And even if it did, Monado Purge is a projectile/blade that can easily be dodged via... dodging as well as Instant Transmission so in no way is it a guaranteed win like you're trying to imply.

And not only that, Shulk's own precognition is going to be countered by Analytical Prediction with the biggest example being in-canon, Goku vs Hit's Rematch where Goku whilst being unable to sense Hit at all is still able to block all of his attacks in a 360 degree arc. Shulk will see Goku's actions into the future and act accordingly, however Goku will act accordingly to Shulk's actions. So what, did Shulk see this exact scenario with his precognition?

Also, while non-canon to this Shulk, just because you have precognition does not mean you can do anything about it. Biggest example is in Smash Bros Ultimate where even though Shulk saw everyone's demise, he could do nill about it. Shulk lacks teleportation or flight- if he's caught in the air unable to move with a fatal move, precognition or not, he's dead.
Click to expand...
Reality warping isn't just locked to one ability. If that were the case, he'd just have EE on his profile.

The justification for paralysis is already explained on Shulk's profile. Even if you disregard it, Shulk still has the Bind and Paralysis status effects, both of which can be inflicted by any normal attack he makes.

Shulk's precognition is still superior to Zanza's in this key. With his own precognition, Zanza was able to utilize visions to see years into every possible future. So in other words, Goku's moves would still be foreseen.

You may be right, but in this case, there's still other things Shulk can do to win this, Purge isn't his only win-con here.
 
Akreious said:
Correct me if I'm wrong but Shulk's Reality Warping seems to be nothing special all things considered and their EE is resisted by Goku anyways.
Also what's the evidence for Monado Purge being paralysis inducement? All references to it I can find says it merely breaks the opponent's aura and certainly doesn't make them unable to move around. And even if it did, Monado Purge is a projectile/blade that can easily be dodged via... dodging as well as Instant Transmission so in no way is it a guaranteed win like you're trying to imply.

And not only that, Shulk's own precognition is going to be countered by Analytical Prediction with the biggest example being in-canon, Goku vs Hit's Rematch where Goku whilst being unable to sense Hit at all is still able to block all of his attacks in a 360 degree arc. Shulk will see Goku's actions into the future and act accordingly, however Goku will act accordingly to Shulk's actions. So what, did Shulk see this exact scenario with his precognition?

Also, while non-canon to this Shulk, just because you have precognition does not mean you can do anything about it. Biggest example is in Smash Bros Ultimate where even though Shulk saw everyone's demise, he could do nill about it. Shulk lacks teleportation or flight- if he's caught in the air unable to move with a fatal move, precognition or not, he's dead.
Click to expand...
The final paragraph is irrelevant as Monado Shield at max protects against all precog'd attacks in the game, and it's likely if a fatal blast was heading his way he'd put up Monado shield to null it. Also SSBU is not canon and irrelevant.
 
The final paragraph is irrelevant as Monado Shield at max protects against all precog'd attacks in the game, and it's likely if a fatal blast was heading his way he'd put up Monado shield to null it. Also SSBU is not canon and irrelevant.

Don't have too much interest on this match, but that's pretty NLFish. Forcefield Creation isn't gonna protect you from attacks that can one shot you multiple times over.
 
Someone just took a massive dump on SSBU. Nobody foresaw that one!

Also, How's Shulk gonna dodge an onslaught of massive lasers. How's he gonna land a hit without getting za glare?
 
Hst master said:
Don't have too much interest on this match, but that's pretty NLFish. Forcefield Creation isn't gonna protect you from attacks that can one shot you multiple times over.
Click to expand...
I have to agree with this.

Being able to create forcefields doesn't mean that they'll protect you. Shulk would need feats to say that his forcefield can withstand attacks coming from someone as powerful as Goku.
 
C2 of Omegon said:
Hst master said:
Don't have too much interest on this match, but that's pretty NLFish. Forcefield Creation isn't gonna protect you from attacks that can one shot you multiple times over.
Click to expand...
I have to agree with this.
Being able to create forcefields doesn't mean that they'll protect you. Shulk would need feats to say that his forcefield can withstand attacks coming from someone as powerful as Goku.
Click to expand...
>He needs feats to say that his forcefield can withstand attacks from someone as powerful as Goku

Yeah, Zanza? He already has feats of that.
 
Quibster said:
Someone just took a massive dump on SSBU. Nobody foresaw that one!
Also, How's Shulk gonna dodge an onslaught of massive lasers. How's he gonna land a hit without getting za glare?
Click to expand...
Monado Speed + precog raises his evasion to avoid the lasers.
 
I'm pretty sure Zanza isn't as strong as Goku. Also, pretty sure Goku's scaling chain is superior to Shulk's in the first place, since in DB there are 12 to 18 universes for every possibility. So Shulk's forcefields won't withstand Goku's attack.
 
JoshSSJGod said:
Alrighty, so what's stopping Shulk from just insta-incapping Goku here?
Click to expand...
Being In-Character and Goku's absolutely hilarious AP advantage which also allows him to glare > Insta-Incap
 
Being in-character? With Reality Warping maybe but using Monado Purge with his broken precog? It is in character as there is no reason for Shulk to not just end the fight right there. As for Goku glaring, that requires him to do that in character ( before you say "He will" give examples of it happening and the consistency of it happening.) and leaving it a pretty quick hax win for Shulk. Now don't mind me, it is late and I want some sleep.
 
Having precog doesn't imply that you can always dodge attacks. Diavolo from JoJo had broken precog and couldn't dodge Giorno's GER Energy Shot. He foresaw it, but couldn't dodge it. Same applies to Shulk here and every other precog user.

Reguardless, I honestly don't see Shulk dodging 100% of the time. Sure, sometimes, but not all of the time. He'll be the one dodging and losing stamina while Goku sits back and fires an onslaught of *exploding* ki-blasts and lasers. It's not like Shulk has Ultra Instinct.

There are even some attacks that Shulk will be put at a disadvantage of like Solar Flare― which could blind the use of his eyes. There's also Kiai, which is an Invisible attack that he cannot see― which is stated to be a Glare. How can Shulk withstand those?

It's also funny how much of an AP advantage Goku has, on top of carrying Senzu Beans, as stated in his profile.

Also, can Shulk fly? If not, then Goku has this in the bag via range, versatility, and mobility advantage. Also AP advantage.
 
It's also been shown throughout DB history that Goku thinks on his feet. He'll catch onto Shulk's abilities and exploit their weaknesses in the most creative way he can. What makes Goku dangerous in battle is he has plenty of experience. He always finds a way to overcome challenges and comes up with plenty of strategies.
 
Quibster said:
Having precog doesn't imply that you can always dodge attacks. Diavolo from JoJo had broken precog and couldn't dodge Giorno's GER Energy Shot. He foresaw it, but couldn't dodge it. Same applies to Shulk here and every other precog user.

Reguardless, I honestly don't see Shulk dodging 100% of the time. Sure, sometimes, but not all of the time. He'll be the one dodging and losing stamina while Goku sits back and fires an onslaught of *exploding* ki-blasts and lasers. It's not like Shulk has Ultra Instinct.

There are even some attacks that Shulk will be put at a disadvantage of like Solar Flare― which could blind the use of his eyes. There's also Kiai, which is an Invisible attack that he cannot see― which is stated to be a Glare. How can Shulk withstand those?

It's also funny how much of an AP advantage Goku has, on top of carrying Senzu Beans, as stated in his profile.

Also, can Shulk fly? If not, then Goku has this in the bag via range, versatility, and mobility advantage. Also AP advantage.
Click to expand...
I agree that having precog doesn't always guarantee that a character can always dodge attacks, but I'd need to know how Diavolo's precog works first if you're going to go ahead and compare them. There's also the fact that Shulk also has extrasensory perception on his profile.

Who's to say that Shulk won't just spam ether attacks back at Goku in retaliation to what he sees with his precognition?

How often does Goku use those moves in character though? Also, Shulk can still easily just incap with Purge, Bind or RW, and gradually kill Goku with Poison, Blaze or Chill.

I don't recall anyone disputing Goku's ap advantage anyway, mentioning it again seems redundant when the main point has already been established.

Can you explain that a bit more? Shulk's dealt with many opponents who can fly like the Telethia, Zanza and various in-game fodder enemies to name a few.
 
Thatsafloridathing said:
Quibster said:
Having precog doesn't imply that you can always dodge attacks. Diavolo from JoJo had broken precog and couldn't dodge Giorno's GER Energy Shot. He foresaw it, but couldn't dodge it. Same applies to Shulk here and every other precog user.

Reguardless, I honestly don't see Shulk dodging 100% of the time. Sure, sometimes, but not all of the time. He'll be the one dodging and losing stamina while Goku sits back and fires an onslaught of *exploding* ki-blasts and lasers. It's not like Shulk has Ultra Instinct.

There are even some attacks that Shulk will be put at a disadvantage of like Solar Flare― which could blind the use of his eyes. There's also Kiai, which is an Invisible attack that he cannot see― which is stated to be a Glare. How can Shulk withstand those?

It's also funny how much of an AP advantage Goku has, on top of carrying Senzu Beans, as stated in his profile.

Also, can Shulk fly? If not, then Goku has this in the bag via range, versatility, and mobility advantage. Also AP advantage.
Click to expand...
I agree that having precog doesn't always guarantee that a character can always dodge attacks, but I'd need to know how Diavolo's precog works first if you're going to go ahead and compare them. There's also the fact that Shulk also has extrasensory perception on his profile.
Who's to say that Shulk won't just spam ether attacks back at Goku in retaliation to what he sees with his precognition?

How often does Goku use those moves in character though? Also, Shulk can still easily just incap with Purge, Bind or RW, and gradually kill Goku with Poison, Blaze or Chill.

I don't recall anyone disputing Goku's ap advantage anyway, mentioning it again seems redundant when the main point has already been established.

Can you explain that a bit more? Shulk's dealt with many opponents who can fly like the Telethia, Zanza and various in-game fodder enemies to name a few.
Click to expand...
I thought Goku had resistance to Ext Sen., Poison, Heat and Extreme Cold?
 
Basically the same as Shulk's precog, except he foresees events that are fated to happen. For example, Diavolo could foresee someone's foot being chopped off (via his Stand Epitaph)― but he wouldn't know who's it was. Like Shulk, Diavolo has the power to alter the predetermined course of events by using his ability (via his Stand King Crimson's Time Erase). (But Shulk doesn't have Time Manip. Just an example. :p)

Also, Extrasensory Perception? Xeno Goku resists due to not being able to be sensed by beings "lesser than a God." it's even listed in Xeno Goku's resistances. Shulk has no God ki. So that argument is tossed out the window.

What exactly do you mean? Shulk's Elemental Attacks? Have you not seen the Shadow-dragon Saga? Goku has dealt with it before. He also resists extreme heat and cold. Fire and Ice are out the window― since he's had experience dealing with both Eis and Nuova Shenron. Even Electricity is something Goku has dealt with before via his experience with Rage Shenron. Air Manipulation too via Oceanus Shenron.

Lastly, about Shulk's Power Nullification via Monado Purge...

Xeno Goku also resists. It's straight up in his profile. "Beings with divinity cannot be affected by Android 21's waves, which can nullify powers."

With Xeno Goku's Analytical Prediction, Information Analysis, Afterimage Creation, Low-Regen as a Super Saiyan 4, Life-Force Absorption, Probability Manipulation, and even Attack Reflection amongst a plethora of other abilities and feats I could mention to further prove my point...

Goku sends Shulk back to school.
 
Quibster said:
Basically the same as Shulk's precog, except he foresees events that are fated to happen. For example, Diavolo could foresee someone's foot being chopped off (via his Stand Epitaph)― but he wouldn't know who's it was. Like Shulk, Diavolo has the power to alter the predetermined course of events by using his ability (via his Stand King Crimson's Time Erase). (But Shulk doesn't have Time Manip. Just an example. :p)

Also, Extrasensory Perception? Xeno Goku resists due to not being able to be sensed by beings "lesser than a God." it's even listed in Xeno Goku's resistances. Shulk has no God ki. So that argument is tossed out the window.

What exactly do you mean? Shulk's Elemental Attacks? Have you not seen the Shadow-dragon Saga? Goku has dealt with it before. He also resists extreme heat and cold. Fire and Ice are out the window― since he's had experience dealing with both Eis and Nuova Shenron. Even Electricity is something Goku has dealt with before via his experience with Rage Shenron. Air Manipulation too via Oceanus Shenron.

Lastly, about Shulk's Power Nullification via Monado Purge...

Xeno Goku also resists. It's straight up in his profile. "Beings with divinity cannot be affected by Android 21's waves, which can nullify powers."

With Xeno Goku's Analytical Prediction, Information Analysis, Afterimage Creation, Low-Regen as a Super Saiyan 4, Life-Force Absorption, Probability Manipulation, and even Attack Reflection amongst a plethora of other abilities and feats I could mention to further prove my point...

Goku sends Shulk back to school.
Click to expand...
  • That's not the same as Shulk's it differs as not only is Shulk's but his own precog can even see practically everything as shown with him precoging Reyn's movements just to show his team.
  • The extrasensory is more Precog with bypassed Type 2 Acasusality. Goku can't counter it.
  • Ether is basically like Ki to Goku but unlimited and can be used to warp reality and such. Meaning Goku has not dealt with anything like it.
  • The Power Null was never really stated to be an issue it was the other abilities that cause the incap to occur.
  • Those abilities do not really matter as not only does Shulk resist a bunch of 'em such as Attack Reflection for example but also with can't do much against Shulk's Multiversal Range Monado Purge, Reality Warping or status effects.
 
"That's not the same as Shulk's it differs as not only is Shulk's but his own precog can even see practically everything as shown with him precoging Reyn's movements just to show his team."

Still comes with the problem of, if Goku manages to place Shulk in a position where movement is not possible then Precog. is still useless. If Goku puts up a Super-Variant of Piccolo's Hellzone Grenade (Which is actually pretty simple in principle), Precognition isn't doing anything.

"The extrasensory is more Precog with bypassed Type 2 Acasusality. Goku can't counter it."

Then it isn't extrasensory, mate. The Precognition listed on Extrasensory Perception is predicting the enemy's movements to simulate Precognition- not literally precognition.

Also refer to above for "Can't counter".

"Ether is basically like Ki to Goku but unlimited and can be used to warp reality and such. Meaning Goku has not dealt with anything like it."

Literally the first sentence on the Wikia's Ether page:

"Ether (Japanese: Òé¿Òâ╝ÒâåÒâ½, ─Æteru) is the building block of all life in the universe of the Xenoblade Chronicles series. As stated in Xenoblade Chronicles, Ether is the base unit of life and, without it, living beings would not be able to survive."

So yes, Goku has dealt with something likes this before. Given that it's definition is literally "Ki'.

Also Reality Warping? Really? Heroes Villains warp Reality on the regular and only a select few has access to Magic- the others utilize Ki to do so. Plus Goku straight up has Pocket Reality Manipulation on his profile; Ki can warp Reality.

"Those abilities do not really matter as not only does Shulk resist a bunch of 'em such as Attack Reflection for example but also with can't do much against Shulk's Multiversal Range Monado Purge, Reality Warping or status effects."

Monado Purge is easily dodged given that it's a straight up slash, Reality Warping is unquantified right now, and most of Shulk's Status Effects is downright useless on Goku who resists it or has dealt with it in one form or another.
 
Quibster said:
Basically the same as Shulk's precog, except he foresees events that are fated to happen. For example, Diavolo could foresee someone's foot being chopped off (via his Stand Epitaph)― but he wouldn't know who's it was. Like Shulk, Diavolo has the power to alter the predetermined course of events by using his ability (via his Stand King Crimson's Time Erase). (But Shulk doesn't have Time Manip. Just an example. :p)

Also, Extrasensory Perception? Xeno Goku resists due to not being able to be sensed by beings "lesser than a God." it's even listed in Xeno Goku's resistances. Shulk has no God ki. So that argument is tossed out the window.

What exactly do you mean? Shulk's Elemental Attacks? Have you not seen the Shadow-dragon Saga? Goku has dealt with it before. He also resists extreme heat and cold. Fire and Ice are out the window― since he's had experience dealing with both Eis and Nuova Shenron. Even Electricity is something Goku has dealt with before via his experience with Rage Shenron. Air Manipulation too via Oceanus Shenron.

Lastly, about Shulk's Power Nullification via Monado Purge...

Xeno Goku also resists. It's straight up in his profile. "Beings with divinity cannot be affected by Android 21's waves, which can nullify powers."

With Xeno Goku's Analytical Prediction, Information Analysis, Afterimage Creation, Low-Regen as a Super Saiyan 4, Life-Force Absorption, Probability Manipulation, and even Attack Reflection amongst a plethora of other abilities and feats I could mention to further prove my point...

Goku sends Shulk back to school.
Click to expand...
I can see why you'd say it's similar, but Shulk's is a bit different. It's passive and by the end of the game, it's superior to Zanza's, who was able to see into every single possibilty, added on with the fact that Zanza manipulates the Passage of Fate.

Also, I believe that some of the comments above already addressed that Goku resisted elemental effects, it was an error on my part. You've yet to address Shulks other options though. Goku doesn't resist RW, the effects of the Bind status effect, paralysis inducement, or perception manipulation.
 
"Goku doesn't resist RW, the effects of the Bind status effect, paralysis inducement, or perception manipulation."

Perception manipulation will need to be proven to be able to affect someone's ability to sense Ki, otherwise Goku sidesteps this

Bind prevents movement but still allows the binded target to use skills- So all this does is cause Goku to IT Spam and Ki Blast Spam which would just cause Shulk's chances of victory to plummet further.

Paralysis Inducement is done via Monado Purge, which can and will be dodged by this serious no-nonsense version of Goku.

Still waiting on the cite that shows Shulk's Combat-Applicable RW and how it's used.
 
Monado Purge is easily dodged given that it's a straight up slash, Reality Warping is unquantified right now, and most of Shulk's Status Effects is downright useless on Goku who resists it or has dealt with it in one form or another.

The Monado allows the user to bend ether to their will, I doubt that Shulk would just do one simple slash instead of an omnidirectional attack. Even in the cutscenes, it isn't always just shown to be one slash.
 
Thatsafloridathing said:
Monado Purge is easily dodged given that it's a straight up slash, Reality Warping is unquantified right now, and most of Shulk's Status Effects is downright useless on Goku who resists it or has dealt with it in one form or another.
Click to expand...
The Monado allows the user to bend ether to their will, I doubt that Shulk would just do one simple slash instead of an omnidirectional attack. Even in the cutscenes, it isn't always just shown to be one slash.
Problem is, Ether from what the definition given right now is straight up the same as Ki; meaning Monado Purge will be sensed and still, dodged. If Shulk opts for Omnidirectional, Instant Transmission is a mighty good option to instantly move from in-hit range to out-of-hit range.
 
Like I said, it was an example. Not saying they're both indefinitely the same.

What does Acasuality have to do with it? Goku cannot be sensed by lesser beings than a god. Just because Shulk has reality warping doesn't give him any divine or godly status. Has the game specifically stated that he has god/divine energy? If not, then my arguement still stands.

Yes, Xeno Goku has dealt with if before with Demigra's reality warping abilities, which Demigra has. So has has dealt with it before. Your argument is invalid.

Explain how they don't matter. Shulk doesn't resist Xeno Goku's Low-Regen as a SSJ4, Senzubeans, or Life-Force Absorption. Again, Xeno Goku resists Power Null due to having God Ki.

Lemme say this again, Xeno Goku resists Monado Purge via resistance to Power Nullification via the Android 21 feat. Monado Purge is a Power Nullification ability, mind you. It's even labelled as one on Shulk's profile.

Yes, Shulk can still sense Goku with Precog, but outside of precog no. Shulk will have to constantly use his Precog while Goku attacks with an onslaught of Ki-Blasts. Shulk will be the one on his toes, losing Stamina in the process.

Even without Goku's God Ki or Ki-Related energies. Goku is still a martial arts powerhouse. He's dealt with people who fight with weapons before. He'll catch on via Information Analysis.

Also, how durable is the Monado? Has it ever broken or been shattered before? Is it as durable as Shulk, and can the weapon itself resist a punch from Goku's ridiculous AP outside of Shield?
 
Thatsafloridathing said:
Don't they have the same level of range though?
Click to expand...
I think... so?

Not really sure, there's no real "Size" given for the Multiverse in Shulk's page.

Speaking of Monado Purge, can't Goku counter-fire it? It has all these haxes and stuff sure but if Goku just punts it away with massively stronger AP, it wouldn't do much.
 
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