WWE: Pressure Points or Attack Potency?

[RandomGuy2345]

Yes. I am once again making another WWE CRT.

Me and @Pikaman talked about it, and we were thinking that instead of WWE wrestlers having higher AP via their finishers, we now think that the WWE wrestlers should have Pressure Points via their finishers.

It was once agreed upon that the wrestlers were able to KO their opponents with their finishers having far higher AP than their normal moves.

But wouldn't the whole concept of Pressure Points were to KO, Paralyze, and potentially kill their opponents? So wouldn't that apply to the WWE wrestlers as well?

I mean, Kenny Omega has Pressure Points via his V-Trigger move, which is his finisher. Wouldn't we apply the same logic to all of the other WWE wrestlers?

 

[Pikaman]

I was initially sceptical of this, but apparently staff pre-approved Kenny’s profile, and his finisher is listed as pressure points.

Also, it would be a far smoother method of explanation for how finishers work that requires less assumptions

 

[Pikaman]

I was initially sceptical of this, but apparently staff pre-approved Kenny’s profile, and his finisher is listed as pressure points.

Also, it would be a far smoother method of explanation for how finishers work that requires less assumptions

So yeah, count me as agreeing for Pressure Points being added, and for finishers to no longer be distinguished as higher in AP than regular

 

[SamanPatou]

Many finishers are just heavy slams, haymakers and such, while pressure points refers to precisely striking a spot within the human body, usually very small in sizd and often irrealistically represented in fiction.

This doesn't apply to Undertaker slamming your skull on the floor, Hogan falling with his legs on your face or such.

Honestly I don't even know why Kenny Omega has them, the V Trigger seems to be "just" a hefty knee to the face, which doesn't qualify for Pressure Points at all.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Many finishers are just heavy slams, haymakers and such, while pressure points refers to precisely striking a spot within the human body, usually very small in sizd and often irrealistically represented in fiction.

This doesn't apply to Undertaker slamming your skull on the floor, Hogan falling with his legs on your face or such.

Honestly I don't even know why Kenny Omega has them, the V Trigger seems to be "just" a hefty knee to the face, which doesn't qualify for Pressure Points at all.

Yeah, that makes sense.

You're quick with these responses.

 

[Pikaman]

Many finishers are just heavy slams, haymakers and such, while pressure points refers to precisely striking a spot within the human body, usually very small in sizd and often irrealistically represented in fiction.

This doesn't apply to Undertaker slamming your skull on the floor, Hogan falling with his legs on your face or such.

Honestly I don't even know why Kenny Omega has them, the V Trigger seems to be "just" a hefty knee to the face, which doesn't qualify for Pressure Points at all.

If that’s the case then I guess higher AP will stay as the explanation unless you have any better ideas perhaps?

Kenny will likely need Pressure Points removed from his profile then

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Kenny will likely need Pressure Points removed from his profile then

Yeah, I saw PP on his profile and immediately questioned "Why don't all of the other wrestlers have PP as well?"

Looking at it now, I'm surprised no one questioned how Kenny has PP up until now.

 

[SomebodyData]

I have to agree with Saman

 

[RandomGuy2345]

I fr got two consecutive WWE CRT's rejected.

I stay taking L's...

 

[SomebodyData]

I fr got two consecutive WWE CRT's rejected.

I stay taking L's...

Idk, most people take Higher AP as a W

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Idk, most people take Higher AP as a W

Yeah, but PP was cooler as a concept...

Also, the last CRT I made was about giving WWE Superantural Willpower, but that got rejected, too.

I was super confident on that getting approved.

Saman strikes again...

 

[SamanPatou]

You're quick with these responses.

I just noticed the thread one second after it was made

If that’s the case then I guess higher AP will stay as the explanation unless you have any better ideas perhaps?

It's a weird case, because technically finishers are inconsistent with both what they are meant to be and how they function.

Some can be considered more dangerous moves that target sensible spots (head, neck, groin, lower back etc..), and then it's just a matter of exploiting the weakness of the human body.

Sometimes they are magically strong blows, elbows, kicks, punches etc.., usually targeting weak spots as well, but logically they shouldn't differ that much from strikes that are literally the same without being labeled as finishers.
This could also apply to all finishers that are just common moves (DDTs, leg drops, frankensteiners, shining wizards, backbreakers, powerbombs..) but become weirdly effective when used by specific people (but then you can argue they perform them in some special way)

Sometimes they oneshot comparable opponents when they are at full health, other times they have to land several times.

As a matter of fact, they are meant for the show and make a wrestler more characterized.
Still, given how much they also vary in type (submissions, slams, strikes...) I guess it's better to judge them on a case by case basis.

All finishers that target the head and the face (either the nose, the jaw, the frontal lobe, the temples..) might be considered as the wrestler attacking a sensible spot, thus exploiting a weakness rather than doing a stronger attack.
The others should be scrutinized by looking at how they work, how they are used, what effects they achieve more consistently and against what kind of opponents (fresh, worn out...) and so on.

Just dumping all of them under a single label is just wrong, imho.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

It's a weird case, because technically finishers are inconsistent with both what they are meant to be and how they function.

Some can be considered more dangerous moves that target sensible spots (head, neck, groin, lower back etc..), and then it's just a matter of exploiting the weakness of the human body.

Sometimes they are magically strong blows, elbows, kicks, punches etc.., usually targeting weak spots as well, but logically they shouldn't differ that much from strikes that are literally the same without being labeled as finishers.
This could also apply to all finishers that are just common moves (DDTs, leg drops, frankensteiners, shining wizards, backbreakers, powerbombs..) but become weirdly effective when used by specific people (but then you can argue they perform them in some special way)

Sometimes they oneshot comparable opponents when they are at full health, other times they have to land several times.

As a matter of fact, they are meant for the show and make a wrestler more characterized.
Still, given how much they also vary in type (submissions, slams, strikes...) I guess it's better to judge them on a case by case basis.

All finishers that target the head and the face (either the nose, the jaw, the frontal lobe, the temples..) might be considered as the wrestler attacking a sensible spot, thus exploiting a weakness rather than doing a stronger attack.
The others should be scrutinized by looking at how they work, how they are used, what effects they achieve more consistently and against what kind of opponents (fresh, worn out...) and so on.

Just dumping all of them under a single label is just wrong, imho.

I might have to show you a list of finishers and determine whether or not they should be considered PP or not...

 

[Pikaman]

I just noticed the thread one second after it was made


It's a weird case, because technically finishers are inconsistent with both what they are meant to be and how they function.

Some can be considered more dangerous moves that target sensible spots (head, neck, groin, lower back etc..), and then it's just a matter of exploiting the weakness of the human body.

Sometimes they are magically strong blows, elbows, kicks, punches etc.., usually targeting weak spots as well, but logically they shouldn't differ that much from strikes that are literally the same without being labeled as finishers.
This could also apply to all finishers that are just common moves (DDTs, leg drops, frankensteiners, shining wizards, backbreakers, powerbombs..) but become weirdly effective when used by specific people (but then you can argue they perform them in some special way)

Sometimes they oneshot comparable opponents when they are at full health, other times they have to land several times.

As a matter of fact, they are meant for the show and make a wrestler more characterized.
Still, given how much they also vary in type (submissions, slams, strikes...) I guess it's better to judge them on a case by case basis.

All finishers that target the head and the face (either the nose, the jaw, the frontal lobe, the temples..) might be considered as the wrestler attacking a sensible spot, thus exploiting a weakness rather than doing a stronger attack.
The others should be scrutinized by looking at how they work, how they are used, what effects they achieve more consistently and against what kind of opponents (fresh, worn out...) and so on.

Just dumping all of them under a single label is just wrong, imho.

Thanks for the input! This sounds a far more sensible way to go around it yes, I’ll begin categorising the finishers of characters we currently index and go from there

 

[Moritzva]

I don't know anything about the verse in specific, but I know a decent bit about MMA and regular human combat. What SamanPatou said sounds most reasonable, best to simply judge a finisher by the content of it.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

I don't know anything about the verse in specific, but I know a decent bit about MMA and regular human combat. What SamanPatou said sounds most reasonable, best to simply judge a finisher by the content of it.

Thanks for the input, Mori!

 

[Pikaman]

Slams:

Ataxia (Austin Theory): Slams opponent’s face onto the ground

ATL (Austin Theory): A slam of the face onto the ground, sometimes from an airborne position

Running Powerslam (Braun Strowman): A running slam of the opponent down onto the ground

Sister Abigail (Bray Wyatt): A twisting slam onto the ground face first

F5 (Brock Lesnar): Spinning slam face first onto the ground

1916 (Finn Bálor): Hoists an opponent up, before slamming their back down onto the ground, can also lift opponent up further and slam them head first pointing down

Attitude Adjustment/AA (John Cena): Lifts opponent up before slamming them back down

RKO (Randy Orton): In all its awesomeness people forget its just a face to ground slam lmao



Strikes:

A-Town Down (Austin Theory): Drops the opponent, resulting in their face colliding with the knee of the user

W.M.D. (Big Show): A punch to the jaw

Codebreaker (Chris Jericho): A dragging of the head down onto the user’s knees

Coup De Grâce (Finn Bálor): Double-Footed stomp down onto an opponents abdomen from a height, usually the top ropes of a ring

No Chin Music (James Ellsworth): Kick to chin or face

Punt Kick (Randy Orton): Kick to head

Spear (Roman Reigns): Running tackle



Submission Holds/Chokes

Mandible Claw (The Fiend): A grip of the hand onto the area of the mouth underneath the tongue, resulting in the target passing out in a matter of seconds

Walls of Jericho (Chris Jericho): ...I’m gonna be honest guys no idea how this is meant to cause the excruciating pain it does, it might be hyper-extending leg muscles? User grabs hold of opponents legs before turning them so their back faces up, and then squatting with legs in hand (That’s the best I can describe it anyhow)

Stepover Toehold Facelock/STF (John Cena): Locks opponents legs between user’s thighs, and also apples a standard headlock (This targets head and knees)

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Slams:

Ataxia (Austin Theory): Slams opponent’s face onto the ground

ATL (Austin Theory): A slam of the face onto the ground, sometimes from an airborne position

Running Powerslam (Braun Strowman): A running slam of the opponent down onto the ground

Sister Abigail (Bray Wyatt): A twisting slam onto the ground face first

F5 (Brock Lesnar): Spinning slam face first onto the ground

1916 (Finn Bálor): Hoists an opponent up, before slamming their back down onto the ground, can also lift opponent up further and slam them head first pointing down

Attitude Adjustment/AA (John Cena): Lifts opponent up before slamming them back down

RKO (Randy Orton): In all its awesomeness people forget its just a face to ground slam lmao



Strikes:

A-Town Down (Austin Theory): Drops the opponent, resulting in their face colliding with the knee of the user

W.M.D. (Big Show): A punch to the jaw

Codebreaker (Chris Jericho): A dragging of the head down onto the user’s knees

Coup De Grâce (Finn Bálor): Double-Footed stomp down onto an opponents abdomen from a height, usually the top ropes of a ring

No Chin Music (James Ellsworth): Kick to chin or face

Punt Kick (Randy Orton): Kick to head

Spear (Roman Reigns): Running tackle



Submission Holds/Chokes

Mandible Claw (The Fiend): A grip of the hand onto the area of the mouth underneath the tongue, resulting in the target passing out in a matter of seconds

Walls of Jericho (Chris Jericho): ...I’m gonna be honest guys no idea how this is meant to cause the excruciating pain it does, it might be hyper-extending leg muscles? User grabs hold of opponents legs before turning them so their back faces up, and then squatting with legs in hand (That’s the best I can describe it anyhow)

Stepover Toehold Facelock/STF (John Cena): Locks opponents legs between user’s thighs, and also apples a standard headlock (This targets head and knees)

You should probably apply links to these moves.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

You should probably apply links to these moves.

I can help you with that if you want.

 

[Pikaman]

You should probably apply links to these moves.

Nah I didn’t describe those moves so people could just click a link and do away with a pretty large amount of work from me finding and analysing clips of all the finishers listed above to ensure I accurately described them...

If people specifically want to see a move in action I’m happy to provide links, but I spent too much time on that list to be arsed with an alternative lmao, sorry

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Nah I didn’t describe those moves so people could just click a link and do away with a pretty large amount of work from me finding and analysing clips of all the finishers listed above to ensure I accurately described them...

If people specifically want to see a move in action I’m happy to provide links, but I spent too much time on that list to be arsed with an alternative lmao, sorry

I mean, I could provide links for further clarification of the move if you want...

 

[RandomGuy2345]

I mean, I could provide links for further clarification of the move if you want...

Pika?

 

[Pikaman]

I mean, I could provide links for further clarification of the move if you want...

If you wanna, go for it

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Slams:

Ataxia (Austin Theory): Slams opponent’s face onto the ground

ATL (Austin Theory): A slam of the face onto the ground, sometimes from an airborne position

Running Powerslam (Braun Strowman): A running slam of the opponent down onto the ground

Sister Abigail (Bray Wyatt): A twisting slam onto the ground face first

F5 (Brock Lesnar): Spinning slam face first onto the ground

1916 (Finn Bálor): Hoists an opponent up, before slamming their back down onto the ground, can also lift opponent up further and slam them head first pointing down

Attitude Adjustment/AA (John Cena): Lifts opponent up before slamming them back down

RKO (Randy Orton): In all its awesomeness people forget its just a face to ground slam lmao



Strikes:

A-Town Down (Austin Theory): Drops the opponent, resulting in their face colliding with the knee of the user

W.M.D. (Big Show): A punch to the jaw

Codebreaker (Chris Jericho): A dragging of the head down onto the user’s knees

Coup De Grâce (Finn Bálor): Double-Footed stomp down onto an opponents abdomen from a height, usually the top ropes of a ring

No Chin Music (James Ellsworth): Kick to chin or face

Punt Kick (Randy Orton): Kick to head

Spear (Roman Reigns): Running tackle



Submission Holds/Chokes

Mandible Claw (The Fiend): A grip of the hand onto the area of the mouth underneath the tongue, resulting in the target passing out in a matter of seconds

Walls of Jericho (Chris Jericho): ...I’m gonna be honest guys no idea how this is meant to cause the excruciating pain it does, it might be hyper-extending leg muscles? User grabs hold of opponents legs before turning them so their back faces up, and then squatting with legs in hand (That’s the best I can describe it anyhow)

Stepover Toehold Facelock/STF (John Cena): Locks opponents legs between user’s thighs, and also apples a standard headlock (This targets head and knees)

@SamanPatou

 

[Abstractions]

Many finishers are just heavy slams, haymakers and such, while pressure points refers to precisely striking a spot within the human body, usually very small in sizd and often irrealistically represented in fiction.

This doesn't apply to Undertaker slamming your skull on the floor, Hogan falling with his legs on your face or such.

Honestly I don't even know why Kenny Omega has them, the V Trigger seems to be "just" a hefty knee to the face, which doesn't qualify for Pressure Points at all.

I share the same sentiments as Saman here, it doesn't look like Pressure Points.

Even in the instance of one finisher being considered as such, that wouldn't make every single one then apply for it either.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

I share the same sentiments as Saman here, it doesn't look like Pressure Points.

Even in the instance of one finisher being considered as such, that wouldn't make every single one then apply for it either.

Pika listed a bunch of finishers, we just have to determine if they should be considered PP or not.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

@SamanPatou and @Abstractions

Do you guys need visuals for how the finishers look to make it easier?

 

[SamanPatou]

Ataxia (Austin Theory): Slams opponent’s face onto the ground
ATL (Austin Theory): A slam of the face onto the ground, sometimes from an airborne position
Sister Abigail (Bray Wyatt): A twisting slam onto the ground face first
F5 (Brock Lesnar): Spinning slam face first onto the ground
RKO (Randy Orton): In all its awesomeness people forget its just a face to ground slam lmao
A-Town Down (Austin Theory): Drops the opponent, resulting in their face colliding with the knee of the user
W.M.D. (Big Show): A punch to the jaw
Codebreaker (Chris Jericho): A dragging of the head down onto the user’s knees
No Chin Music (James Ellsworth): Kick to chin or face
Punt Kick (Randy Orton): Kick to head

All of these aim to weak spots and can (theoretically) cause the brain to shake, similarly to when a boxer KOs you or when you get any kind of concussion trauma, i.e. there's no reason to consider them stronger than the normal wrestler's damage output.

Running Powerslam (Braun Strowman): A running slam of the opponent down onto the ground
1916 (Finn Bálor): Hoists an opponent up, before slamming their back down onto the ground, can also lift opponent up further and slam them head first pointing down
Attitude Adjustment/AA (John Cena): Lifts opponent up before slamming them back down
Coup De Grâce (Finn Bálor): Double-Footed stomp down onto an opponents abdomen from a height, usually the top ropes of a ring
Spear (Roman Reigns): Running tackle

These are already somewhat different, but I guess the concept behind them is to enhance the power of the move through running, jumping or exploiting gravity in a more complex way than a simple body slam.
In this case, it would just be how physics and KE work.

Mandible Claw (The Fiend): A grip of the hand onto the area of the mouth underneath the tongue, resulting in the target passing out in a matter of seconds
Walls of Jericho (Chris Jericho): ...I’m gonna be honest guys no idea how this is meant to cause the excruciating pain it does, it might be hyper-extending leg muscles? User grabs hold of opponents legs before turning them so their back faces up, and then squatting with legs in hand (That’s the best I can describe it anyhow)
Stepover Toehold Facelock/STF (John Cena): Locks opponents legs between user’s thighs, and also apples a standard headlock (This targets head and knees)

These are self-explanatory, submissions like these are meant to either choke the opponent or cause them continuous pain to either make them pass out or surrender, also no pressure points.
(Also, do we all agree that that the STF is much cooler than the f*cking AA?)

@SamanPatou and @Abstractions
Do you guys need visuals for how the finishers look to make it easier?

I already knew almost all of them

 

[RandomGuy2345]

All of these aim to weak spots and can (theoretically) cause the brain to shake, similarly to when a boxer KOs you or when you get any kind of concussion trauma, i.e. there's no reason to consider them stronger than the normal wrestler's damage output.

So is it PP for them?

These are already somewhat different, but I guess the concept behind them is to enhance the power of the move through running, jumping or exploiting gravity in a more complex way than a simple body slam.
In this case, it would just be how physics and KE work.

Alright. So these will just have higher AP then, right?

These are self-explanatory, submissions like these are meant to either choke the opponent or cause them continuous pain to either make them pass out or surrender, also no pressure points.

Yeah I kinda knew that already lol.

(Also, do we all agree that that the STF is much cooler than the f*cking AA?)

Agreed. As iconic the AA is, it basically has no impact.

Ataxia and ATL are best looking finishers don't @ me.

I already knew almost all of them

Extremely based and red pilled

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Anyways, it's past 3:00 A.M. where I live. I need some sleep.

 

[SamanPatou]

So is it PP for them?

No, it was established in some previous CRT (iirc it was a Baki or Kengan Asura thread) that targeting weak spots (eye, belly, solar plexus, nose, temples, groin...) doesn't count as pressure points.
A pressure point is generally a nerve or some other unknown/magical spot that somehow governs vitals functions of the body, whose disruption badly undermines the whole structure, from the common paralysis to the evergreen body explosion from HNK.
Like, even the classic slap on the wrist or Man-in-Black neck grip can be considered PP, but a kick in the nuts isn't.

Alright. So these will just have higher AP then, right?

Yes, but it's something that occurs naturally in real life, so we don't list that on files, because virtually every character who can move at decent speed can achieve that.

Agreed. As iconic the AA is, it basically has no impact.
Ataxia and ATL are best looking finishers their don't @ me.

Personally, I'm an old school lover of Kurt Angle's Olympic Slam, it's just to dinamic!

Anyways, it's past 3:00 A.M. where I live. I need some sleep.

Time for a sleeper hold

 

[Pikaman]

No, it was established in some previous CRT (iirc it was a Baki or Kengan Asura thread) that targeting weak spots (eye, belly, solar plexus, nose, temples, groin...) doesn't count as pressure points.
A pressure point is generally a nerve or some other unknown/magical spot that somehow governs vitals functions of the body, whose disruption badly undermines the whole structure, from the common paralysis to the evergreen body explosion from HNK.
Like, even the classic slap on the wrist or Man-in-Black neck grip can be considered PP, but a kick in the nuts isn't.

Makes sense

Yes, but it's something that occurs naturally in real life, so we don't list that on files, because virtually every character who can move at decent speed can achieve that.

Well I mean, I feel like we have to index so,where the importance of finishers, through PP or AP or otherwise. Not documenting them as the miles stronger than usual moves they are just leads to accusations of wank every time we bring up their power in vs threads

 

[RandomGuy2345]

So what's the overall conclusion here?

 

[RandomGuy2345]

I think this can be closed.

We all came to an agreement that it's just higher Attack Potency.