Would a current SSB Vegito be stronger than Rage Boosted MUI Goku?

[ZERO7772]

Wat do you mean? after the massive plot-device named Jiren I don't see anything weird with Cumber being GoD lvl while restrained

 

[AntorusTheBurningThrone]

People have this weird idea that UIO doesn't hit hard because of Kefla's comments and Jiren not taking so much damage the first time he fought UIO.
Kefla's comment is BS though. She said his attacks were not that impressive compare to his movement. Goku however, star ragdolling her all across the arena and she was clearly in pain from every attack she received form, the reason he needed Kamehameha wasn't because his attacks were weak but because he was ruining out of fuel so he needed to finish things quickly.

Ya also gotta understand, that Kefla's part Caulifla. Meaning, she talks shit, when in reality she really ain't shit.

 

[AntorusTheBurningThrone]

Wat do you mean? after the massive plot-device named Jiren I don't see anything weird with Cumber being GoD lvl while restrained

Meanwhile, we have a restrained, powered up base Broly rivalling/surpassing SSB in terms of Power. Let alone SSJ Broly, and...well...LSSJ Broly.

 

[ZERO7772]

inb4 Broly goes SSJ4 in the movie~

DBS took the "power creep" meaning into a whole another level. which is ironically what DB fans loves the most. Crazy power levels, random power ups, endless new forms, plot that make little to no sense, gotta love how popular Broly is despite being Flat and crazy at times

 

[Lord_Zeref_Dragneel]

I read the scan. It says a different strength from Beerus and Jiren. Does different mean stronger in this context?

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Considering in DBS , the same type of context it was used to describe difference of strength ... I'd say yes. Goku wouldn't be as excited if it was a different ki type or something.

 

[Lord_Zeref_Dragneel]

@The 2nd Existential Seed

So does this mean Base Kanba with restrainer jacket is stronger than Limit Breaker Jiren?

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Indeed it would Zeref.

 

[Lord_Zeref_Dragneel]

Wow that's insane

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

.... Quite insane indeed. It honestly went from (God-Tiers in DBH are not surpassed) to (Beerus turned fodder) really quickly.

 

[ZERO7772]

They hype the characters too much sometimes, Jiren went from being GoD lvl while heavily heavily suppressed to only a little stronger than Beerus at full power "before he break his limits"lL

Anyway that answer the question. Potara > U.I

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

In terms of potential multiplier I knew potara had a one up on UI since Kefla , and basically confirmed with Cumber . Cumber is > Limit Breaker Jiren while restrained in base . Restrained Base ....

 

[ZERO7772]

Potara's multiplier was supposed to be weaker than SSG actually but when Kefla wiped the floor with SSG "in base" and was fighting U.I once she went SSJB2, even though caulifla's and Kale's base power are FAR weaker than base Goku.

This creat a problem that Buu saga Vegito may been SSG tier LOL.

 

[Peter1129]

Pretty sure the Potara multiplier depends on how strong the fusees full power is rather than their base form.

 

[ZERO7772]

And the SSJ forms are a mere multiplier of the base. It all comes down to your base in the end. although this argument is only valid when both fusees have an equal transformation, so yeah you have point I guess.

Manga Vegito was stronger than SSB Goku in his base.

 

[Meshifuari_Arimota]

We shouldnt take DBH game seriously at all. Power scaling there is almost not-existing. SSB Goku is stronger than SSJ4 Xeno Goku in there, however SSJ4 Xeno Vegito is supposed to be stronger than SSJ Cumber, who by comparison was fighting equally against SSB Kaioken Vegito in his base... So if we go by math there:

SSB Goku>Xeno Goku SSJ4


SSB Vegito Kaioken >= Cumber (Base)


SSJ4 Xeno Vegito >= Cumber SSJ

SSB > SSJ4 Xeno/SSB Kaioken <<SSJ4 Xeno

This doesnt add up.

 

[Peter1129]

From what we know about Potara fusion. It takes the two fuses power adds them together and than multiplies them by tens of times. And if that really is the case than it must be adding the fusees full power otherwise it wouldn't make any sense for somebody like Base Kefla to be stronger than Post-First UIS SSG Goku. Especially when he singlehandedly stomped both of them in their strongest form.

 

[ZERO7772]

The game opening is different than the game itself and the various media are different in way of portraying the event.

In the original game SSJ4 lose to SSB but in the anime\manga they are portrayed as equals more or less, Cumber didn't fight SSB Vegito in base he fought him as SSJ and Vegito didn't even use KK in the actual game, their fight was later interrupted and sometime later we see base Cumber beating the hell out of SSB Goku who is alone for some reason, then Xeno Goku come the rescue and fuse with Vegito to turn into SSJ4 Vegito is about to take on base Cumber

 

[ZERO7772]

@Peter1129 fair point

 

[Meshifuari_Arimota]

@ZERO7772 In before Cumber will go SSJ4/Take down SSJ4 Xeno Vegito, and then Xeno Goku will enter MUI and defeat him once for all. From marketing perspective MUI Xeno Goku card would sell out well.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

SSJ1 Cumber/Kamba in the games was around on par with SSB Vegito... And was actually close to beating him in that form. I'm not understanding how a SSJ4 Cumber/Kanba is needed to take on Xeno SSJ4 Vegito, especially considering SSB in DBH is stated to be the superior transformation.

 

[ZERO7772]

^Cumber has Golden Ozaru form so it not a reach to say he may just turn SSJ4. then, Gogeta and Vegito will fuse to form SSJ4BKKxx100 and beat him ┬»\_(Òâä)_/┬»

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

I wasn't saying using SSJ4 is unlikely period [ Actually I'd love to see that personally...] ... I was saying using it against SSJ4 Vegito is... Whelp... Ludicrously overkill.

 

[ZERO7772]

We really don't know the context of SSJ4 Vegito vs Cumber yet, all we saw is just trailer and SSJ4 Vegito should still be comparable to SSB Vegito + Xeno Goku has Kaio-Kenxx100 so he can always stack that on the top of SSJ4 as well and he will be much stronger than SSBKK Vegito "Although Xeno Goku never used Kaio-ken with SSJ4 yet"

 

[Iamelmo12]

Well if we use heroes, Goku goes UI and seems to be at a higher level compared to Cumber ssj3. I think UI > Fusion.

 

[Ovrhide]

Going by the movie, since broly is the strongest opponent they have fought, and ssb gogeta beats him horribly without likely going all out, then yes, current ssb vegito beat enraged MUI goku, as a current ssb vegito would equal a current ssb gogeta.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

I agree that SSB Gogeta would curb ToP UI Goku... Since you can argue that Broly is extremely close to UIO 3rd to Limit Breaker Jiren level in just Super Saiyan form.

(Remember how OP Anime Canon SSB Gogeta is...)

(Then remembers how OP SDBH Anime/Manga/Game Cumber is. I mean, in every incarnation he's stronger than SSB Vegito).

(Then asks: What would a Curoly (Anime Cumber x Movie DBS Broly fusion) be like ? )

 

[Ovrhide]

I wouldn't argue that ssj broly is that closeven to that level of power, conscidering that base gogeta equaled that, and turning ssb would increase his power up to like a million times

 

[ZERO7772]

SSJ Broly was equal with SSJ Gogeta actually by some spoilers.

Also, why are we talking about spoilers here?

 

[Iamelmo12]

Don't think SSB Gogeta would beat a current MUI Goku. Guys are seriously underestimating UI.

Broly isn't stronger than Jiren in my opinion as Broly is considered a "maybe" compared to Beerus. We know Jiren is above Beerus, since Whis stated that Belmod is stronger than Jiren and as Beerus's personal angel who is aware of his abilities, his word is law.

MUI Goku in the tournament of power is stronger than FP Broly. The dodge hax is just too much and I doubt FP Broly is faster than hidden power unleashed Jiren.

Goku UI just has better capabilities than both Vegito and Gogeta. He has speed feats that none have replicated, Gogeta Blue with fluid movement dodged one beam. Goku MUI dodged several beams and used them as platforms to get to Jiren. The feats just speak for themselves. We can speculate all day about raw power but MUI Goku has both raw power and technique to overcome any speculative difference in power.

Going by history, everytime Goku reaches UI he grows massively in power and continues to grow stronger as the fight goes on. Something that fusion fails to succeed in. It's just a form user and the more forms it uses the shorter the duration of the fusion. UI wins.

 

[Peter1129]

Post-ToP Fusions > ToP UI Goku. This is shown in Heroes and according to the Broly Movie summaries.

We've already had a statement that Broly > Jiren. And we don't know the exact wording about what Goku said to Broly. Currently there are two versions of it with different meanings. One summary said Broly is might be stronger which means he's possibly stronger than Beerus. Another one said he's probably stronger which means he's likely stronger than Beerus. For now we should probably ignore it. Also one statement that contradicts all previous statements can be ignored in most cases.

 

[AKM sama]

Wow this thread is old.

 

[Iamelmo12]

@Peter1129 I agree they might be more powerful than ToP MUI Goku, but not current MUI Goku.

Are there any spoilers to the UI Goku vs Cumber fight? As the way I see it based on the preview it's UI Goku > SSJ4 Vegito and SSBKK Vegito. As he is able to effortlessly damage Cumber SSJ3 and doesn't seem phased at all by his power. If the non-canon material is anything to go by, then UI is a massive boost in power, stronger than fusion * forms.

If he's stronger than Beerus then why did he get a maybe? We know Jiren is stronger, Whis has stated so. Jiren is above Belmod and Belmod is considered stronger than Beerus. I don't see how Broly is more powerful than Jiren. He took on two super saiyan blues while Jiren took on super saiyan blue kaioken x20 Goku, evo blue vegeta and 17 at the same time without releasing his full power.

It's hard to prove that their bases have increased that much in the Broly movie but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that it did massively. Even so it's hard to say because of Goku's comment stating that broly is a maybe. That is what hurts the argument.

 

[Peter1129]

The op was referring to ToP UI not a hypothetical Second UI which appeared in Heroes.

In the actual DBH game Restrained Base Cumber > Limit Break Jiren. So Post-ToP Fusions are stronger than First (ToP) UI Goku but are inferior to Second UI Goku.

Like I said summaries weren't clear about it. Wrathful Mode Broly took on Post-ToP SSB Goku. And SS1 Broly stomped Post-ToP SSB Goku and Vegeta who are all much stronger than Post-2nd UIS SSBKK Goku and ToP SSBE Vegeta who fought Jiren. Since with each usage of Ultra Instinct Sign Goku becomes much stronger than before.

Broly Saga Goku is Post-UI Goku the same one who's base was shown to have become stronger than Android 17 (Pre-UIS SSBKK Lvl) + Golden Frieza (Pre-UIS SSB Lvl) combined while heavily weakened in the last minute of the Tournament of Power.

 

[Iamelmo12]

If it's ToP Mui Goku yeah, but I'm still not convinced Broly is stronger than Unleashed Jiren. I'll agree the fusions are, but not Broly. As the summaries are not conclusive enough on that front.

Post-Top MUI Goku should be more powerful than fusion as I said before, it just has better capabilities.

But I'll concede that Goku's base is probably super strong post ToP. It's weird that they didn't use their other forms on Broly but I suppose they did to save money and to tie in with the manga.

 

[Peter1129]

Fair enough. Though I still believe Broly is stronger according to those statements. Since they said Jiren will be the strongest enemy they have faced and he did become the strongest. So when they say Broly will be the new strongest he will probably be the new strongest.

A hypothetical Post-ToP UI Goku being stronger than Post-ToP Fusion is really not that surprising.

I think the Broly movie is only a sequel to the anime and not the manga which skipped the arc just like it did with Ressurection of F.

 

[Ovrhide]

If a base fusion is considerably above a ssb, then there is no way in hell UI is a bigger boost. Heck, vegito blue with just a regukar kaioken was matching a golden great ape cumber, who is >>>>>>>> than his ssj3 form.

 

[Iamelmo12]

If a base fusion is considerably above a ssb, then there is no way in hell UI is a bigger boost. Heck, vegito blue with just a regukar kaioken was matching a golden great ape cumber, who is >>>>>>>> than his ssj3 form.

We have no idea what the multipliers are for UI, we do know everytime Goku uses it he gets a massive power boost stronger than the last time he used it. UI has also shown to get stronger as the fight progresses something fusion has never done in any of its respective forms. It's a form that keeps improving because it utilizes muscle memory to enhance its combat capabilities.

What's better?

A form that grows stronger the fight goes on with speed hax, dodge hax and offensive hax?

Or a fusion that has huge amounts of base power but can only derive further power from forms.

UI Goku has more feats.

 

[JackJoyce]

I agree with Iamelmo12. Why are people taking non Canon materials like DBH and fan gossips about the Broly movie as a source for power scaling?

 

[Ovrhide]

No. Ultra instinct doesn't get stronger during the fight, it's goku, as he is a saiyan.

Anyways, current vegito and gogeta take this do to broly being the strongest antagonists to date, and the fact that jiren withstood and matched UI goku.