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Wizards of Waverly Place: Magic should be Low 2-C

TioKill

TioKill

They/Them
739
465
Pain_to12 said:
It's not

Your scan has no sound and your description of the feat is 3-A.
Click to expand...
It does have sound, you're just being incompetent, literally just turn the volume up, or tap the screen if you're on phone.

Also no, the feat is Low 2-C because the time stream of the alternate universe is different from this one.
 
Never in my life did I expect to see a CRT for a Disney Channel show...

I'm fine with that specific spell receiving a Low 2-C rating –the evidence is blatant. However, I'm ambivalent as to whether all magic would scale. Granted, I'm unfamiliar with the series or its in-verse mechanics, but it seems that this is more so Low 2-C space-time manipulation.

Neutral for now.
 
All magic shouldn't scale but the specific spell should have Low 2-C via creation. Atleast that's what I think. So I agree.
 
I think Alex means by "alternative universe" is an alternative timeline

by this logic, Marty McFly would be 2-C since he created an alternative timeline
 
why would this not scale to other magic, the way she says it implied its a super simple, casual thing for a wizard to do
 
By the way we index magical spells, we absolutely do allow them to scale to the energy the magic is producing. Otherwise the star moving spell is just astral manipulation.
 
TioKill said:
It does have sound, you're just being incompetent, literally just turn the volume up, or tap the screen if you're on phone.
Click to expand...
You are honestly daft about arguments and insults. Can you not talk to people without insulting them?
TioKill said:
Also no, the feat is Low 2-C because the time stream of the alternate universe is different from this one.
Click to expand...
Okay still 3-A, low 2-C requires creation of all of past and future of the new alternate universe.
Time flowing faster or slower is not a qualification for tier 2
 
Pain_to12 said:
You are honestly daft about arguments and insults. Can you not talk to people without insulting them?
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"You're being incompetent" in a situation where you are being incompetent isn't an insult, stop whining over literal nothing, snowflake.
Pain_to12 said:
Okay still 3-A, low 2-C requires creation of all of past and future of the new alternate universe.
Time flowing faster or slower is not a qualification for tier 2
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It's not. Affecting time on a universal scale is enough for Low 2-C.
 
TioKill said:
"You're being incompetent" in a situation where you are being incompetent isn't an insult, stop whining over literal nothing, snowflake.
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not knowing how certain things work does not make someone incompetent, especially when it is not something that is a general knowledge. you have been in the RvR so many times, dont feature again.
TioKill said:
It's not. Affecting time on a universal scale is enough for Low 2-C.
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Nope, that is time manipulation, I dont know who told you that.
affecting space on a 4-D scale is what gives low 2-C or any other feats of similar manners


What you have is creating of a new universe, unless they are creating the entire space-time continuum that is 3-A.
 
Pain_to12 said:
You have been in the RvR so many times, dont feature again.
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Be my guest to make a complete fool of yourself by reporting someone over being called incompetent, I'll be waiting right here.
Pain_to12 said:
Nope, that is time manipulation, I dont know who told you that.
Click to expand...
"Characters or objects that are capable of significantly affecting, creating and/or destroying an area of space that is qualitatively larger than an infinitely-sized 3-dimensional space."

They are creating an entirely new space-time continuum, so it classifies as Low 2-C - a completely new time dimension that works differently - rather than just creating a new universe that uses the same time stream as the natural universe and then using time manipulation to slow down time in that universe. It cannot be "the entire past present and future" because the new universe would be bestowed with a new time dimension entirely - so it would only create present and future, like the Big Bang.
 
TioKill said:
"Characters or objects that are capable of significantly affecting, creating and/or destroying an area of space that is qualitatively larger than an infinitely-sized 3-dimensional space."

They are creating an entirely new space-time continuum, so it classifies as Low 2-C - a completely new time dimension that works differently - rather than just creating a new universe that uses the same time stream as the natural universe and then using time manipulation to slow down time in that universe. It cannot be "the entire past present and future" because the new universe would be bestowed with a new time dimension entirely - so it would only create present and future, like the Big Bang.
Click to expand...
They are not, it simply said you can create a new universe, btw checking the episode, she was being sarcastic.
Again time flowing differently in the universe does not mean they are creating the past, present and the future. even in this universe, there are parts of it where time flows differently, do that mean those parts are a self contained space-time continuum?
Anyway this is pointless.
 
Pain_to12 said:
They are not, it simply said you can create a new universe, btw checking the episode.
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Check again, she said he could create an Universe where a year is just a minute, aka create a Space-time Continuum.
Pain_to12 said:
she was being sarcastic.
Click to expand...
No, she wasn't. Checking the episode does not change the context - Alex was saying Justin could've done something greater with his magic to aid his unallowed relationship with a vampire - the validity of the statement is not going to be questioned without a valid reason, especially when two out of three spells stated was already showcased in the show.
Pain_to12 said:
Again time flowing differently in the universe does not mean they are creating the past, present and the future.
Click to expand...
It's not time flowing differently that proves the creation of a new timeline - it's the fact he has to make that time dimension in this alternate universe. The fact it flows differently is only meant to prove he isn't using the same time dimension from the real universe
Pain_to12 said:
even in this universe, there are parts of it where time flows differently, do that mean those parts are a self contained space-time continuum?
Click to expand...
Not at all, but this is not a comparable scenario, he is creating an entirely new universe with a different time stream, not just distorting the one from the real world.
Pain_to12 said:
Anyway this is pointless.
Click to expand...
It isn't, it's an objective debate on what tier to give to the wizards. Either way, Low 2-C is looking great.
 
TioKill said:
Check again, she said he could create an Universe where a year is just a minute, aka create a Space-time Continuum.
Click to expand...
how is creating a universe with a different timeflow means that you created the entire past, present and future.
Even inside a single universe we have thousands if not millions of different timeflow in different areas, does that mean those are different space time continuum, stop being incompetent and pick up a physics textbook
TioKill said:
No, she wasn't. Checking the episode does not change the context - Alex was saying Justin could've done something greater with his magic to aid his unallowed relationship with a vampire - the validity of the statement is not going to be questioned without a valid reason, especially when two out of three spells stated was already showcased in the show.
Click to expand...
there is a valid reason, the context of her statement. Anyway I am still neutral on this
TioKill said:
It's not time flowing differently that proves the creation of a new timeline - it's the fact he has to make that time dimension in this alternate universe. The fact it flows differently is only meant to prove he isn't using the same time dimension from the real universe
Click to expand...
Define time dimension, lol
There are two different timedimensions, forward and backward.
Are you saying he created a different one meaning backward, meaning people will age backwards,
Again a physics textbook.
TIme near a huge star, blackhole and earth all flows differently, but they are the same time dimensions as they flow forward regardless.
TioKill said:
Not at all, but this is not a comparable scenario, he is creating an entirely new universe with a different time stream, not just distorting the one from the real world.

It isn't, it's an objective debate on what tier to give to the wizards. Either way, Low 2-C is looking great.
Click to expand...
I said it is pointless, while I can see it been interpreted as him creating another timeline after watchign the episode, as all of them have to already exist in the new universe he is creating meaning he is creating a timeline, which will be low 2-C, but again she was being sarcastic, context is king.
So meaning it is possible or not, we really do not know and nothing else even comes close to creation of this level
 
Pain_to12 said:
how is creating a universe with a different timeflow means that you created the entire past, present and future.
Click to expand...
Past is not necessary, if you're creating time from scratch, it will only go forward, again, the Big Bang never created past, past just existed as time went on, same would happen to Justin's universe. Space and time are connected together, if you create an alternate universe which has a separate space, time cannot be the same as the other universe, that's basic physics.
Present is already presumed by design.
Future is stated to happen, as Alex stated Justin would be able to spend a year there.
Pain_to12 said:
I said it is pointless, while I can see it been interpreted as him creating another timeline after watchign the episode, as all of them have to already exist in the new universe he is creating meaning he is creating a timeline, which will be low 2-C.
Click to expand...
All I needed to hear. Low 2-C it is.
Pain_to12 said:
but again she was being sarcastic, context is king.
Click to expand...
She literally wasn't! That's so crazy, why are you lying about this verifiable fact? Wizards vs Vampires the second or third episode, anyone can watch it and see that you are spreading misinformation.
Alex was dead serious, she was listing all the ways Justin could have avoided being caught with her vampire girlfriend - literally the plot of the entire episode.
 
TioKill said:
Past is not necessary, if you're creating time from scratch, it will only go forward, again, the Big Bang never created past, past just existed as time went on, same would happen to Justin's universe. Space and time are connected together, if you create an alternate universe which has a separate space, time cannot be the same as the other universe, that's basic physics.
Present is already presumed by design.
Future is stated to happen, as Alex stated Justin would be able to spend a year there.
Click to expand...
which is why we had an entire thread that now makes bigbang tier 3 not 2.
You want to lecture me about physics? you are a master degree short dear. possibly bachelor degree too.
You keep saying time like it is some sort of physical dimension, time is the measurement of change. that is all
anyway this derailing and pointless to the thread
TioKill said:
All I needed to hear. Low 2-C it is.
Click to expand...
i listed some conditions, dont just take the part that suits you
TioKill said:
She literally wasn't! That's so crazy, why are you lying about this verifiable fact? Wizards vs Vampires the second or third episode, anyone can watch it and see that you are spreading misinformation.
Alex was dead serious, she was listing all the ways Justin could have avoided being caught with her vampire girlfriend - literally the plot of the entire episode.
Click to expand...
Anyone can check it out, i will take things like that with a grain of salt
 
Pain_to12 said:
which is why we had an entire thread that now makes bigbang tier 3 not 2.
You want to lecture me about physics? you are a master degree short dear. possibly bachelor degree too.
You keep saying time like it is some sort of physical dimension, time is the measurement of change. that is all
anyway this derailing and pointless to the thread
Click to expand...
No way bro just tried to flex a degree in physics on Vsbattles Wiki 💀💀💀💀
 
Sometimes I trick myself into thinking that, within VS debating, there exists a point so clear, so undeniable in meaning and tiering, that we can all agree upon a single kernel of objectivity in this sea of subjectivity.

But then I see contention over threads like this, and I am forcefully reminded of my foolishness.

Agree FRA, if that wasn't obvious.
 
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This is legitimately so blatant I find myself flabbergasted that anyone could disagree with it but hey.

God coming down from the literal heavens: Says inspiring quotes and facts

VsDebaters: "Uhmmmm... we don't accept word of god + that was flowery language 🤓"
 
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Jesus Christ. There's no need for this mess. The feat is blatant and Tio makes sense to me. I agree. This is literally the first sentence in the Universe page:
The Universe is all of space and time and their contents, including planets, stars, galaxies, all forms of matter and energy.
Click to expand...
 
Pain_to12 said:
you are a master degree short dear
Click to expand...
While this certainly does not and will never reflect in your opinions on physics, it is a really unnecessary and hilarious claim that didn’t and won’t help you win this argument. I’m ROTF.

Agree with OP, extremely straightforward thread and the only counter argument is simply unreasonable doubt and can be ignored moving forward.
 
So Straightforward the discourse from that one guy is just a nice bonus to the thread

I agree
 
I agree.

Wizards can already rewind and stop time on a (at least seemingly, stating space-time) universal scale, so it isn't a far fetched thing in any way.

Plus there was something similar in the first movie anyway.
 
Zoldyck59 said:
While this certainly does not and will never reflect in your opinions on physics, it is a really unnecessary and hilarious claim that didn’t and won’t help you win this argument. I’m ROTF.

Agree with OP, extremely straightforward thread and the only counter argument is simply unreasonable doubt and can be ignored moving forward.
Click to expand...
Hey, I am going to stop you here because OP was not either winning the argument while saying she is incompetent. Ayo, if you are going to judge her words, then judge his words as well
 
Like I already said, I am neutral about the OP, I have seen the series and I do think it is possible but we were never shown and we have a single statement, so that is really shaky for a solid tier. and his OP is to scale all magic to low 2-C which is pure nonsense, there are spells which creates a cup sized water, so those are low 2-C too, at most this would pertain to the spell in question, a spell that has no name and we were never even told about, it was not even said to be a spell. and it will not even scale to AP, as it is a creation spell.
So the claim is to scale this to all wizards who scale above Russo is certainly a huge disagree for me. but she getting a creation spell that we know nothing about and do not even know the name of the spell, well I am neutral about that. As the series treats magic of far lesser power as very great even too great for her to handle, the one I can remember is in the movie, they could not even undo a timeline EE, but here the claim is that they can create a timeline? So yes it is shaky. And she does not even scale to the timeline EE, as that was becuase she has the family wand and the forbidden book of spells, but you think she can create another timeline?
I certainly disagree at this point even, no longer neutral.
 
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