Wizards of Waverly Place: Magic should be Low 2-C

[ImmortalDread]

Like I already said, I am neutral about the OP, I have seen the series and I do think it is possible but we were never shown and we have a single statement, so that is really shaky for a solid tier. and his OP is to scale all magic to low 2-C which is pure nonsense, there are spells which creates a cup sized water, so those are low 2-C too, at most this would pertain to the spell in question, a spell that has no name and we were never even told about, it was not even said to be a spell. and it will not even scale to AP, as it is a creation spell.
So the claim is to scale this to all wizards who scale above Russo is certainly a huge disagree for me. but she getting a creation spell that we know nothing about and do not even know the name of the spell, well I am neutral about that. As the series treats magic of far lesser power as very great even too great for her to handle, the one I can remember is in the movie, they could not even undo a timeline EE, but here the claim is that they can create a timeline? So yes it is shaky. And she does not even scale to the timeline EE, as that was becuase she has the family wand and the forbidden book of spells, but you think she can create another timeline?
I certainly disagree at this point even, no longer neutral.

Do you agree with possibly rating? Likewise, in other side, I don't think “statements can't be accepted without explicit proof demonstrating it's true” is still a guideline. As long as:

1. has no contradictions
2. isn't hyperbole
3. has enough context to support said statement

But now after I re-read everything, I also find it shaky that they can't undo timeline but get low 2-C creation. I never thought about this. This sounds anti-feat for me. So put me on disagreement as well. We also need to see if anti-feats or contradictions exists before thinking of adding a tier.

 

[TioKill]

Hey, I am going to stop you here because OP was not either winning the argument while saying she is incompetent. Ayo, if you are going to judge her words, then judge his words as well

Nice deflection, the minor comment on Pain's inability to use a site surely was a major portion of the argument, wasn't it?

You guys need to touch some grass, imagine y'all being called "idiots" at work by your boss, you'd lose your marbles. But I ain't here to keep stomping my feet over nothing, so just keep away.

 

[TioKill]

doubting if she was sarcastic or not looking at the context is not unreasonable, ou can always watch the episode yourself.

It's not. This isn't a point of contention, this is your fabrication of a non-existent context. There isn't a universe where Alex was being sarcastic in a sense where what she said wasn't accurate advice - again, two out of the three methods she presented were used by her before to avoid getting into trouble. This is unreasonable.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Nice deflection, the minor comment on Pain's inability to use a site surely was a major portion of the argument, wasn't it?

You guys need to touch some grass, imagine y'all being called "idiots" at work by your boss, you'd lose your marbles. But I ain't here to keep stomping my feet over nothing, so just keep away.

Drop it or I will move it to RvR thread.

 

[TioKill]

Drop it or I will move it to RvR thread.

I invite you to do it. We need people reporting over minor - nearly insignificant things. It's the only way to publicly shame this kind of act in front of staff and lecture overly sensitive people such as yourself to grow some thicker skin. I'm also sick of these empty threats - am I just not allowed to show any kind of stress? No, this is insanity.
Or not even that, Pain already got over it, and I didn't say anything mean to you other than commenting on how sensitive you are in general.

Again, be my guest, let's see how that goes.

 

[ImmortalDread]

“Sensitive people”, yap. This is so damn subjective to everyone. Again, may I know what the **** you gained calling someone incompetent? Winning the argument through this? Also, we dropped it, the other person just judged Pain's insult while he forgets your own insults' existence. At the end, you did not drop it.

Which stress you got when someone disagreed with you? Holy? Talking about sensitive, but you can't even hold your stress when someone disagreed with you.

Should I call thread moderator or you ******* move on?

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

I swear this is why we can't have nice things, I agree with Low 2-C for the spell in question.

 

[ImmortalDread]

I swear this is why we can't have nice things, I agree with Low 2-C.

I don't know why he did not drop it. He continued it. I only replied to other person making them aware that the person who started insult is OP and Pain simply reacted to it.

I am not here standing and watching someone being humiliated just for him to express his kind of “stress”. Oh ya, laughably that he can only express his kind of “stress” by insulting someone's inability.

 

[Deceived3596]

Ladies, ladies calm down.

I've arrived.

Also on the topic of the CRT itself, i agree with it, Pain "Everything" 12's arguments haven't been as convincing as Tio's arguments imo.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Also on the topic of the CRT itself, i agree with it, Pain "Everything" 12's arguments haven't been as convincing as Tio's arguments imo.

May I know why they could not undo the timeline but have ability to create it? It sounds anti-feat for me right now.

 

[MrKerf]

to scale all magic to low 2-C which is pure nonsense, there are spells which creates a cup sized water, so those are low 2-C too, at most this would pertain to the spell in question, a spell that has no name and we were never even told about, it was not even said to be a spell. and it will not even scale to AP, as it is a creation spell.

I will actually agree with this one. Considering how much magic varies in the show, this would only change to "Up to Low 2-C".

So the claim is to scale this to all wizards who scale above Russo is certainly a huge disagree for me. but she getting a creation spell that we know nothing about and do not even know the name of the spell, well I am neutral about that. As the series treats magic of far lesser power as very great even too great for her to handle

Well, that's eh. Any spell takes a lot from them, but they master it in time, regardless of spell's difficulty or complexity. Sometimes she can stop or reverse time, and sometimes she can't do other stuff. It is consistent.

the one I can remember is in the movie, they could not even undo a timeline EE

Again, lack of knowledge. Specific knowledge. Their dad knew what was going to happen, as well as the rules of it all, so it would imply that it happen before.

but here the claim is that they can create a timeline? So yes it is shaky. And she does not even scale to the timeline EE, as that was becuase she has the family wand and the forbidden book of spells, but you think she can create another timeline?

Was it forbidden book or family book? Can't recall that part, but it would help the context.

And again, the main point of the show always was responsibility of magic. So adults can probably do all crazy spells, but wouldn't actually use it.

 

[ImmortalDread]

but here the claim is that they can create a timeline? So yes it is shaky. And she does not even scale to the timeline EE, as that was becuase she has the family wand and the forbidden book of spells, but you think she can create another timeline?

Someone explains this part, as I also find it shaky right now.

 

[Vasco]

I agree with possibly Low 2-C

 

[Reiner04]

I agree with low 2C for the spell mentioned but as pain is saying it seems to be inconsistent with the power level of series. So I only will be agreeing with this particular spell.

 

[TioKill]

Offensive spells from stronger wizards should scale to the energy of the Low 2-C spell, much like Alex is High 4-C for scaling to a star moving spell.

 

[TioKill]

I agree with low 2C for the spell mentioned but as pain is saying it seems to be inconsistent with the power level of series. So I only will be agreeing with this particular spell.

The series does not feature power levels outside of hax most of the time, so it has nothing to be inconsistent with tbh.

 

[Reiner04]

The series does not feature power levels outside of hax most of the time, so it has nothing to be inconsistent with tbh.

Uh, then I am fine.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

This is honestly about as cut and dry as a Low 2-C creation feat gets; creating a parallel universe; literally it's own body of space not some observable universes added to form a quilted multiverse which seems to be implied by Pain's comment. And better yet, it's clearly a different flow of time where a year there can be a minute in the original universe. This is clearly a space-time continuum being created.

 

[PrinceofPein]

It's not. This isn't a point of contention, this is your fabrication of a non-existent context. There isn't a universe where Alex was being sarcastic in a sense where what she said wasn't accurate advice - again, two out of the three methods she presented were used by her before to avoid getting into trouble. This is unreasonable.

I wrote a pretty long post, what about the fact taht an alex more powerful than that one could not even undo a mix up in a timeline on her own? and needed an all powerful wand to do it?
and saying two out of three of what she listed was done already is not an argument, especially since the scale of those 2 is a joke compared to creating a new timeline.

Offensive spells from stronger wizards should scale to the energy of the Low 2-C spell, much like Alex is High 4-C for scaling to a star moving spell.

Now this is the one I actually disagree with, you are scaling others to a spell we dont know how it will be that never happened.
We scale her to the moving stars, cause it actually happened you know. if it was "Hey I can move those stars to ask her out"
she would not be scaling right now.

I will actually agree with this one. Considering how much magic varies in the show, this would only change to "Up to Low 2-C".

at most it will be "low 2-C enviornmental destruction, with xoxoxoxo spell" btw we do not know the name of the spell

Well, that's eh. Any spell takes a lot from them, but they master it in time, regardless of spell's difficulty or complexity. Sometimes she can stop or reverse time, and sometimes she can't do other stuff. It is consistent.

learning to stop and reverse time sounds simple, compared to creating an entire universe and timeline don't you think?
Like the difference between the complexity of it is infinite. Just because I can lift a ball, does not mean I can lift a mountain.

Again, lack of knowledge. Specific knowledge. Their dad knew what was going to happen, as well as the rules of it all, so it would imply that it happen before.

they had the knowledge, but she said she is not strong enough to undo it, and wanted her dad to do it, but then the dad already forgot her since the timeline has already been messed with.

Was it forbidden book or family book? Can't recall that part, but it would help the context.

forbidden book and family wand.
asy to mix up, but those are the two things she needs to erase herself from the timeline

And again, the main point of the show always was responsibility of magic. So adults can probably do all crazy spells, but wouldn't actually use it.

That i agree with.

Offensive spells from stronger wizards should scale to the energy of the Low 2-C spell, much like Alex is High 4-C for scaling to a star moving spell.

so a fireball that burns a hole in a cloth becomes low 2-C?
Are you reading what you typed?

This is honestly about as cut and dry as a Low 2-C creation feat gets; creating a parallel universe; literally it's own body of space not some observable universes added to form a quilted multiverse which seems to be implied by Pain's comment. And better yet, it's clearly a different flow of time where a year there can be a minute in the original universe. This is clearly a space-time continuum being created.

Diff timeflow is never a sign of different space-time continuum, but yes I already said it is a timeline, I was the one who clarified that, But The argument is not the feat being low 2-C, the argument is
1. Why should they scale to something that never happened.
2. Why should they scale to a spell that we do not even know the name of the spell or how it would happen
3. OP wants to scale all wizards magic to the spell we know nothing of, which would mean that simple spells such as levitating would become low 2-C.
4. There is an anti-feat, a stronger and more knowledgeable Alex, messed with the timeline by accidently erasing herself, and the only thing she could do was "Literally cry". And had to use the stones to reverse the timeline mess, even her father a more powerful wizard, said it is too late and there is nothing he can do.
The wizard that the OP claim that all spells from him is low 2-C, cannot fix something infinitely less than low 2-C, so I certainly can agree to the creation spell gaining low 2-C, but scaling all wizards magic to low 2-C is nonsense

 

[PrinceofPein]

I agree with low 2C for the spell mentioned but as pain is saying it seems to be inconsistent with the power level of series. So I only will be agreeing with this particular spell.

There is no set power levels, all of them have human durability, there are just spells that can do crazy things, specific spells, that their own physical ap or attacks do not scale to. So now OP wants to scale fire balls that burned clothes throughout the series to low 2-C

 

[ImmortalDread]

Lol

 

[TioKill]

Lol

Great commentary Dread, you have been so helpful in this thread so far, where would we be without this great reply? So wonderful

 

[ImmortalDread]

I said lol as I am surprised that your intention was in this direction. My bad, should have phrased better.

 

[TioKill]

Now, before replying to Pain, you all correct me if I'm wrong;

Did I say "All spells from stronger wizards regardless of their use will suddenly become Low 2-C", or did I say "Stronger wizards should scale to the spell"?

Because I'll get ahead of myself and say; these are not the same thing.

So just like that, half of Pain's counters are just Strawmanning me hard, regardless if it's intentional or not.

 

[Mazdoesstuff]

which is why we had an entire thread that now makes bigbang tier 3 not 2.
You want to lecture me about physics? you are a master degree short dear. possibly bachelor degree too.
You keep saying time like it is some sort of physical dimension, time is the measurement of change. that is all
anyway this derailing and pointless to the thread

Funniest flex on vs wiki unironically

 

[ImmortalDread]

Now, before replying to Pain, you all correct me if I'm wrong;

Did I say "All spells from stronger wizards regardless of their use will suddenly become Low 2-C", or did I say "Stronger wizards should scale to the spell"?

Because I'll get ahead of myself and say; these are not the same thing.

So just like that, half of Pain's counters are just Strawmanning me hard, regardless if it's intentional or not.

Can you actually explain this part as this is my disagreement of the thread coming from:

but here the claim is that they can create a timeline? So yes it is shaky. And she does not even scale to the timeline EE, as that was becuase she has the family wand and the forbidden book of spells, but you think she can create another timeline?

 

[TioKill]

I wrote a pretty long post, what about the fact taht an alex more powerful than that one could not even undo a mix up in a timeline on her own? and needed an all powerful wand to do it?
and saying two out of three of what she listed was done already is not an argument, especially since the scale of those 2 is a joke compared to creating a new timeline.

This is such bullshit, it's not even funny.

No disrespect, but who's to say that creating a new space-time continuum is harder than performing literal history and time manipulation in a specific manner to change events in an already existing? Just because someone's magic is Low 2-C means they should be able to just have absolute control over space-time otherwise it's a contradiction?

No Pain, these are two different powers and abilities. Creating a Space-time Continuum only requires magic to create space and time, that's reality warping, and a application of Space-time manupulation, changing history and events of the timeline is another feat and hax entirely.

What you are saying is; either they have Infinite and unquestionable time and history manipulation, otherwise they cannot be Low 2-C. No, we have space-time manipulators capable of performing creation feats, and they do not have the capability to change the timeline in any specific ways. It's not an anti-feat.

You are scaling others to a spell we dont know how it will be that never happened.

This is only relevant if you can prove Alex is incorrect, lying, or just written to be in a situation where she spreads misinformation.
No, the line is blatant. "Magic can create alternate universes".

learning to stop and reverse time sounds simple, compared to creating an entire universe and timeline don't you think?

No, it's not. These are not even comparable, two weights, two measurements.

they had the knowledge, but she said she is not strong enough to undo it, and wanted her dad to do it, but then the dad already forgot her since the timeline has already been messed with.

History Manipulation is harder than space-time creation then. It's just the rules of the fictional setting, it's not an anti-feat

so a fireball that burns a hole in a cloth becomes low 2-C?
Are you reading what you typed?

Not at all. If it's performed by a stronger wizard, a spell from them should be able to output more energy than a casual creation one, which can be performed by a Justin in training, who we later learn is weaker than Alex in training. The wizard should simply have access to spells that are capable of being that strong, doesn't mean any spell that doesn't intend to cause that much harm will suddenly scale to Low 2-C, you are the only one saying that.
It's your fault to presume a top tier wizard's fire ball would cause such a minor thing unless they intended it to.

1. Why should they scale to something that never happened.

That's not a counter, you're just questioning the validity of Alex for no reason. She is skilled wizard who literally used two of the spells she stated in the show.
What, did she just decide to lie about the last one?

2. Why should they scale to a spell that we do not even know the name of the spell or how it would happen.

The name bro? Seriously?

How it would happen is irrelevant, we know two factors, the magic is responsible for it's existence, and it's a universe sized realm. The only thing that matters is time to make it, and since Low 2-C is infinitely higher than 3-A, it would be Low 2-C regardless.

3. OP wants to scale all wizards magic to the spell we know nothing of, which would mean that simple spells such as levitating would become low 2-C.

That's not true, where in the OP do I say that?

4. There is an anti-feat, a stronger and more knowledgeable Alex, messed with the timeline by accidently erasing herself, and the only thing she could do was "Literally cry". And had to use the stones to reverse the timeline mess, even her father a more powerful wizard, said it is too late and there is nothing he can do.

I will try to be as thoughtful as I can to dismantle this anti-feat, because it isn't.



Creating an universe is space-time manipulation, and/or reality warping.


Changing a timeline, and history is history manipulation, and/or another application of time manipulation.

They are not the same thing, Pain.
All the show is saying is that, using this kind of history manipulation is harder than creating an entire universe. It's not contradicting logic because these are not even measurable feats in the first place - the show is allowed to set rules however the hell it feels like.

Literally, a spell to wrap a person with a rope is so difficult it takes three wizards to do it.
While time stop can be performed by one.

The rules are not set by your logic, end of story.

 

[TioKill]

Can you actually explain this part as this is my disagreement of the thread coming from:

"Her magic can't be Low 2-C because she is unable to perform history manipulation/specific time manipulation".

Do you see the problem or nah?

 

[SuperStar]

No way bro just tried to flex a degree in physics on Vsbattles Wiki

Good ratio bro

 

[ImmortalDread]

Nope, I don't see the problem, since someone who has ability to significantly affect a space-time continuum, also have capability to undo timeline or erase it.
It has nothing to do with time manipulation, heck, even time manipulation user can't undo it.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Diff timeflow is never a sign of different space-time continuum, but yes I already said it is a timeline, I was the one who clarified that, But The argument is not the feat being low 2-C, the argument is
1. Why should they scale to something that never happened.
2. Why should they scale to a spell that we do not even know the name of the spell or how it would happen
3. OP wants to scale all wizards magic to the spell we know nothing of, which would mean that simple spells such as levitating would become low 2-C.
4. There is an anti-feat, a stronger and more knowledgeable Alex, messed with the timeline by accidently erasing herself, and the only thing she could do was "Literally cry". And had to use the stones to reverse the timeline mess, even her father a more powerful wizard, said it is too late and there is nothing he can do.
The wizard that the OP claim that all spells from him is low 2-C, cannot fix something infinitely less than low 2-C, so I certainly can agree to the creation spell gaining low 2-C, but scaling all wizards magic to low 2-C is nonsense

Fair mostly, I never cared much for the verse's scaling, only that the specific feat if took seriously would be Low 2-C. Someone just pinged me on a different platform about this thread. The possibility of it being a hypothetical situation seems legit. And I agree that even so, it's pretty obvious the cast would be glass cannons at best or that Justin in particular is a prodigy compared to his peers.

Though parallel universe + different timeflow at the same time clearly sounds like it equals a timeline.

 

[TioKill]

Nope, I don't see the problem, since someone who has ability to significantly affect a space-time continuum, also have capability to undo timeline or erase it.

Again, there is no debate to be had here, this is false. No, just because I'm able to create a space time, it should not grant me the ability to affect it in any other way, creation isn't a justification for other forms of the hax, you're basically saying anyone who can create a universe should have control of a timeline/history of any other universe - Alex didn't even create the real universe, why would she have control over it?

You don't have a stance here, you claimed a verifiable incorrect information.

 

[TioKill]

Fair mostly, I never cared much for the verse's scaling, only that the specific feat if took seriously would be Low 2-C. Someone just pinged me on a different platform about this thread. The possibility of it being a hypothetical situation seems legit. And I agree that even so, it's pretty obvious the cast would be glass cannons at best or that Justin in particular is a prodigy compared to his peers.

Though parallel universe + different timeflow at the same time clearly sounds like it equals a timeline.

Please refer to my reply to these points, Pain is wildly misleading.

This is such bullshit, it's not even funny.

No disrespect, but who's to say that creating a new space-time continuum is harder than performing literal history and time manipulation in a specific manner to change events in an already existing? Just because someone's magic is Low 2-C means they should be able to just have absolute control over space-time otherwise it's a contradiction?

No Pain, these are two different powers and abilities. Creating a Space-time Continuum only requires magic to create space and time, that's reality warping, and a application of Space-time manupulation, changing history and events of the timeline is another feat and hax entirely.

What you are saying is; either they have Infinite and unquestionable time and history manipulation, otherwise they cannot be Low 2-C. No, we have space-time manipulators capable of performing creation feats, and they do not have the capability to change the timeline in any specific ways. It's not an anti-feat.

This is only relevant if you can prove Alex is incorrect, lying, or just written to be in a situation where she spreads misinformation.
No, the line is blatant. "Magic can create alternate universes".

No, it's not. These are not even comparable, two weights, two measurements.

History Manipulation is harder than space-time creation then. It's just the rules of the fictional setting, it's not an anti-feat


Not at all. If it's performed by a stronger wizard, a spell from them should be able to output more energy than a casual creation one, which can be performed by a Justin in training, who we later learn is weaker than Alex in training. The wizard should simply have access to spells that are capable of being that strong, doesn't mean any spell that doesn't intend to cause that much harm will suddenly scale to Low 2-C, you are the only one saying that.
It's your fault to presume a top tier wizard's fire ball would cause such a minor thing unless they intended it to.

That's not a counter, you're just questioning the validity of Alex for no reason. She is skilled wizard who literally used two of the spells she stated in the show.
What, did she just decide to lie about the last one?

The name bro? Seriously?

How it would happen is irrelevant, we know two factors, the magic is responsible for it's existence, and it's a universe sized realm. The only thing that matters is time to make it, and since Low 2-C is infinitely higher than 3-A, it would be Low 2-C regardless.

That's not true, where in the OP do I say that?

I will try to be as thoughtful as I can to dismantle this anti-feat, because it isn't.



Creating an universe is space-time manipulation, and/or reality warping.


Changing a timeline, and history is history manipulation, and/or another application of time manipulation.

They are not the same thing, Pain.
All the show is saying is that, using this kind of history manipulation is harder than creating an entire universe. It's not contradicting logic because these are not even measurable feats in the first place - the show is allowed to set rules however the hell it feels like.

Literally, a spell to wrap a person with a rope is so difficult it takes three wizards to do it.
While time stop can be performed by one.

The rules are not set by your logic, end of story.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Again, there is no debate to be had here, this is false. No, just because I'm able to create a space time, it should not grant me the ability to affect it in any other way, creation isn't a justification for other forms of the hax, you're basically saying anyone who can create a universe should have control of a timeline/history of any other universe - Alex didn't even create the real universe, why would she have control over it?

You don't have a stance here, you claimed a verifiable incorrect information.

Which hax are u actually referring? No one was talking abt hax? And yes, anyone who has low 2-C can significantly effect timeline as this is the point of low 2-C to begin with.

And yes I have stance here, you are not the one who judge of my stance.

 

[TioKill]

Which hax are u actually referring? No one was talking abt hax? And yes, anyone who has low 2-C can significantly effect timeline as this is the point of low 2-C to begin with.

Pain claimed the Potency of Alex's spell is contradicted by the fact she doesn't have history changing hax.

Affecting it in one way shouldn't require you to affect it in other ways, especially when you're dealing with other space-times you didn't even create. They can muster enough energy to create a Space-time, that doesn't mean they should be able to change it's events, it's literally two different abilities, and you are claiming one must have the other for it to not be a contradiction. It's bullshit.

And yes I have stance here, you are not the one who judge of my stance.

Once objectivity has been reached, it isn't a matter of opinion. Your claim is just objectively in the wrong, creating an alternate universe does not give the user the ability to control it's events, that's facts.

 

[TioKill]

It's mind boggling how people are just spitting out actual nonsense no matter how blatant something is!

Imagine when I make Fairly OddParents/Timmy Turner MFTL+ and Universal in the near future? Oh god, I fear what might happen.

 

[MrKerf]

Literally, a spell to wrap a person with a rope is so difficult it takes three wizards to do it.
While time stop can be performed by one.

Basically this. Spells in the show are simply too specific.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yeah, I think up to Low 2-C seems legit then.

 

[TioKill]

The spell is usable by wizards in training so in no world is this the strongest spell in-universe. I'd like to possibly replace the High 4-C with Magic to Low 2-C with Magic FRA, Master Wizards should be able to perform spells on the same level of energy with the intent to harm.
Given how there's literally a spell to move stars, we can either not index these spells their main source of power output, or just acknowledge their peak.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Now, before replying to Pain, you all correct me if I'm wrong;

Did I say "All spells from stronger wizards regardless of their use will suddenly become Low 2-C", or did I say "Stronger wizards should scale to the spell"?

Because I'll get ahead of myself and say; these are not the same thing.

So just like that, half of Pain's counters are just Strawmanning me hard, regardless if it's intentional or not.

you said all attacking spells from stronger wizards, fireball is an attacking spell is it not?
How is that strawmanning, I only mentioned fireball, fireball is for attacking, so his the telekinesis push, that also becomes low 2-C?
You want me to write you a list of those who survived those spells?

No disrespect, but who's to say that creating a new space-time continuum is harder than performing literal history and time manipulation in a specific manner to change events in an already existing? Just because someone's magic is Low 2-C means they should be able to just have absolute control over space-time otherwise it's a contradiction?

Hmmmn creating the time and the history of infinite things is less complex than deleting the history of a single thing? common you yourself do not believe that.
like all she needed to solve the problem of the history thing was just to create an hostory for a single subject, but you are claiming she can create history for infinite things

No, the line is blatant. "Magic can create alternate universes".

and I never denied that, I am saying scaling all spells to it is BS

That's not a counter, you're just questioning the validity of Alex for no reason. She is skilled wizard who literally used two of the spells she stated in the show.

just because I can kill an ant does not mean I destroy a planet.

History Manipulation is harder than space-time creation then. It's just the rules of the fictional setting, it's not an anti-feat

except your so called spacetime creation never happened, so this point is really moot.
the entire argument is, it never happened so we dont know how it would have happened

That's not true, where in the OP do I say that?

all attacking spells, deflecting someone against the wall is an attacking spell, anyone who survives becomes low 2-C in durability only to die in a car crash.

They are not the same thing, Pain.
All the show is saying is that, using this kind of history manipulation is harder than creating an entire universe. It's not contradicting logic because these are not even measurable feats in the first place - the show is allowed to set rules however the hell it feels like.

Literally, a spell to wrap a person with a rope is so difficult it takes three wizards to do it.
While time stop can be performed by one.

The rules are not set by your logic, end of story.

so you are saying certain spells need certain conditons, and you do not even know the conditions of this spell, maybe you need some sort of voodoo sacrifice e.t.c.
So again scaling all magic to this is BS, it was mentioned once, we do not know how it will happen.

Fair mostly, I never cared much for the verse's scaling, only that the specific feat if took seriously would be Low 2-C. Someone just pinged me on a different platform about this thread. The possibility of it being a hypothetical situation seems legit. And I agree that even so, it's pretty obvious the cast would be glass cannons at best or that Justin in particular is a prodigy compared to his peers.

Though parallel universe + different timeflow at the same time clearly sounds like it equals a timeline.

That is it, she gets space-time creation with a spell that we know nothing about, which does not sound so bad, but scaling all other magic to it is where I have a problem