PrinceofPein
Username Only- 9,057
- 5,983
you mean the spell is low 2-C, or all offensive magic should become low 2-C?
Please clarify so your vote can be counted properly
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Wizards of Waverly Place: Magic should be Low 2-C
- Thread starter TioKill
- Start date
Please clarify so your vote can be counted properly
PrinceofPein
Username Only- 9,057
- 5,983
The nonsense in this thread is mind boggling
Look at low 2-C lightning breaking plates, wood and destroying a sofa.
skip to 58secs later after that
When you realize that an attack from two low 2-C spells could not destory a vase and they had to break it themselves
the series is literally a comedy series, not everything is as literal as the OP claims
After this thread, the tier 4 nonsense too needs to go and be spell specific
Look at low 2-C lightning breaking plates, wood and destroying a sofa.
skip to 58secs later after that
When you realize that an attack from two low 2-C spells could not destory a vase and they had to break it themselves
the series is literally a comedy series, not everything is as literal as the OP claims
After this thread, the tier 4 nonsense too needs to go and be spell specific
MrKerf
He/Him- 2,084
- 825
So, it's basically boils down to how magic works. Simple enough.
While there are mostly specific spells, there also are spells that can either be created on the fly (just needs to be rhymed, very interesting actually) or with no words at all (like some adults can, or our main character with few). Their... uncle? even casts with random gibberish.
And it is stated that spells are like training wheels. When you're real good, you don't need them.
So, it should be a clear indicator that their magic can do whatever they want, as long as they are proficient enough, or know the right spell. So, it is like with every other magic wielder on the site. Twilight Sparkle's magic is not always Universal too, duh.
Although I still vote for "Up to Low 2-C", to be clear.
While there are mostly specific spells, there also are spells that can either be created on the fly (just needs to be rhymed, very interesting actually) or with no words at all (like some adults can, or our main character with few). Their... uncle? even casts with random gibberish.
And it is stated that spells are like training wheels. When you're real good, you don't need them.
So, it should be a clear indicator that their magic can do whatever they want, as long as they are proficient enough, or know the right spell. So, it is like with every other magic wielder on the site. Twilight Sparkle's magic is not always Universal too, duh.
Although I still vote for "Up to Low 2-C", to be clear.
PrinceofPein
Username Only- 9,057
- 5,983
Well no one is saying that they cannot have a low 2-C feat, although it is shaky and based on a statement we know nothing about. But the OP is saying we scale all magic to low 2-C, which again is nonsense.
Anyway the best thing is
Varies (Human level up to High 4-C, possibly low 2-C) with magic.
Their tier should be varies, anyway I am making a CRT soon
- 10,936
- 19,075
TioKill
They/Them- 739
- 465
- Thread starter
- #87
Yes, the show stated it is, so it is. It's a fictional rule, they're allowed to do whatever the hell they want. Being able to create a timeline does not grant you the ability to manipulate even the timeline you created, much less the timeline you didn't create. You think we just give this ability to whoever create timelines in fiction? Lmfao. Sorry but this is so goofy reasoning. Creation /=/ Editing, that's final, geez
Also, creating a space-time continuum is not the same as creating history, these are two different ******* abilities - we even index them as different abilities, so quit trying to equate them, you look silly.
"Analogy is my passion"
Pain, you are being purposely ignorant. The point is she has shown all she has stated, you are questioning the validity of her statement because of "dumdum powerscaler mindset", "uga buga value too high", this is not how writing operates, if her statement is validated by narrative, it will not be questioned.
It doesn't matter if it didn't happen, valid statement can grant tiers. Go debunk Goku's 3-A rating then dork.
You know what?
I will concede on making intended spells Low 2-C, it indeed doesn't make any sense now that I think about it. We will still index this specific spell as creation.
PrinceofPein
Username Only- 9,057
- 5,983
Welcome to the light. It was not so hard now was it?
TioKill
They/Them- 739
- 465
- Thread starter
- #89
You're still wrong on 8/10th of your reply where you claim space-time creation requires history manipulation to work, which is hysterical, and just a completely idiotic thing to say. Don't act like you're superior in either skill or intelligence, you lost both - no matter how much you twist my arm.
As the reasonable one here, I'm willing to concede on one point - unlike you. So let me just edit the OP to be about downgrading Alex to "10-B, 9-B up to Low 2-C with specific spells".
PrinceofPein
Username Only- 9,057
- 5,983
Reading to comprehend is not your strong suit, please rest.
Literally cannot tag where I equated history manip to space time manip or where is said it is needed for space-time manipulation.
Only talked about how she could not repair a timeline she messed with but you are claiming she can create one easily.
Again read to comprehension don't assume cause you only see what you want to see.
Timeline repair is literally related to timeline creation. And what I was about was the complexity compared to each other.
Anyway as long as you have conceded that what you were claiming is nonsense.
I'm cool.
No point in beating a dead hòrse
Last edited:
MrKerf
He/Him- 2,084
- 825
You two are so adorable together :3
Guess we're almost done, and peace is finally restored.
- 31,411
- 34,220
Students are up to Low 2-C, that much I can be certain. Of course that means there are a lot of wizards capable of performing a non-combat applicable Low 2-C feats as well as some non-combat applicable Tier 4 feats and what not. Whether or not it is combat applicable, and cannot be ignored that even novice wizards have the capability to cast spells up to Low 2-C.
But as for like master wizards; such as various professors and others who graduated from the wizarding schools; it appears those are the people who learn to create/destroy parallel universes with easy and also harness some attack magic on par with the creation/destruction feats and have better magic control to the point where it's got a connected energy system. Basically it's a Limited Energy system for novices but a Non-Physical Energy System (Unless they use magic to enhance Low 2-C punches to reach that Universal ES status) for mastered wizards based on how TioKill was mentioning.
At the very least, up to Low 2-C seems self explanatory regardless of whether or not it can't be combat applicable. But it is only combat applicable for wizards who mastered the art of magic by the looks of it. I can't really judge the list of people who scale fully, but I still think TioKill makes sense.
Though both sides should also try to stay on best behaivor.
But as for like master wizards; such as various professors and others who graduated from the wizarding schools; it appears those are the people who learn to create/destroy parallel universes with easy and also harness some attack magic on par with the creation/destruction feats and have better magic control to the point where it's got a connected energy system. Basically it's a Limited Energy system for novices but a Non-Physical Energy System (Unless they use magic to enhance Low 2-C punches to reach that Universal ES status) for mastered wizards based on how TioKill was mentioning.
At the very least, up to Low 2-C seems self explanatory regardless of whether or not it can't be combat applicable. But it is only combat applicable for wizards who mastered the art of magic by the looks of it. I can't really judge the list of people who scale fully, but I still think TioKill makes sense.
Though both sides should also try to stay on best behaivor.
PrinceofPein
Username Only- 9,057
- 5,983
there is a single low 2-C feat and a single High 4-C
What are you saying?
Which creating and destroying parallel universes with ease? and which magic did they do that is on par with creating and destruction of parallel universes?
Please if you have not seen a series, please stop making assumptions
it is not combat applicable for anyone, literally all their combats are wall level tiered and haxes
- 18,393
- 14,323
I have no clue what is history manipulation to begin with. Are you really aware of how tier 2 works? You don't need hax to affect timeline, alone being low 2-C means u should be able to do it.
Damn
Damn
- 3,493
- 1,360
Disagree because Alex is not a reliable source on what can and can't be done with magic and they never actually did this.
TioKill
They/Them- 739
- 465
- Thread starter
- #98
YES YOU DO.
This is so insane, it's like I'm banging my head on a brick wall. So if I can create a Space-time, it means I should be able to manually change the events of other timelines I didn't create? Dread, this isn't target to you, but this point is nothing short of fallacious - I'm sorry, there's no other word to describe it. It's literally incorrect, and you keep stomping your feet with it
No, just having a Low 2-C energy tier should not grant you the ability to affect timelines in extremely specific ways, that's HAX.
- 3,493
- 1,360
the writing passed an impossible suggestion for the sake comedy, as it is a comedy show.
By the way, can you post the entire clip, I want to see what Justin’s (a reliable source on magic) response is.
TioKill
They/Them- 739
- 465
- Thread starter
- #100
It wasn't portrayed as an impossible suggestion, no laugh tracks either, and put alongside two viable options. It was portrayed as an actual option, arguing for any other interpretation, is, again, insanity.
He changes subject. Wizards vs Vampires, episode 2 or 3, I don't recall the exact episode. Also, Alex is better at magic than Justin.
- 861
- 275
Saw this show as a kid so I’ll make a quick comment (unaware of any of its scaling or read much of this thread)
Anyway, are there feats, statements or guides that are similar to this? It seems very straightforward yes and in fact Alex in confident in her statement. But if there’s no feats that even remotely resemble this or statements it’s kinda moot. I do think a bit more is needed to really give it such a rating especially low-2c no matter how straightforward it may be, if this is the only feat on that level.
So while I don’t necessarily disagree, I don’t fully agree either. Neutral for now until fully countered or more is added in support of low2-c
- 3,493
- 1,360
I found it.
It is presented as a possible solution in the full context. However, we aren't given to any insight of how it would be done, whether through a simple spell or requires prep
It would give: possibly Low 2-C through unknown methods.
MrKerf
He/Him- 2,084
- 825
Kill me. The wiki of the show has this quote, but links the wrong episode.
AND I SHOULD’VE KNOWN! Because Alex even says “Juliet” and not Miranda. Guh! I have rewatched wrong episode 7 times in the row. Was getting dumber with each second.
Season 2, Episode 24. Justin used magic to add 5 minutes to his scheduled break, as well as 2 inches to his height. Alex says that he should’ve instead do something major, not this. No background laughter either, Justin even says “You do magic your way, I do my way”. Paraphrasing.
AND I SHOULD’VE KNOWN! Because Alex even says “Juliet” and not Miranda. Guh! I have rewatched wrong episode 7 times in the row. Was getting dumber with each second.
Season 2, Episode 24. Justin used magic to add 5 minutes to his scheduled break, as well as 2 inches to his height. Alex says that he should’ve instead do something major, not this. No background laughter either, Justin even says “You do magic your way, I do my way”. Paraphrasing.
PrinceofPein
Username Only- 9,057
- 5,983
What is the new argument about?
We know the low 2-C even though we know nothing about it, may be possible.
So they get the varies tier like they should.
But again reading the standards, the High 4-C and low 2-C, may be outliers anyway
We know the low 2-C even though we know nothing about it, may be possible.
So they get the varies tier like they should.
But again reading the standards, the High 4-C and low 2-C, may be outliers anyway
- 18,393
- 14,323
that has no name or backstory
- 18,393
- 14,323
Universal level+ with creation feat*
PrinceofPein
Username Only- 9,057
- 5,983
mario is a toon series filled with toon force feats, and had some tier 4 feats, but had way more tier 9 feats, and tier 4 was deemed an outlier.
Again outliers are outliers.
I am not arguing that here, and not saying it should be made an outlier, that will be later. I am just explaining it to you
Last edited:
- 31,411
- 34,220
These are whataboutisms, also, the 9-B feats are mostly PIS or Game Mechanics and this is a derailment of this thread.
Also, Outlier in general is one of the most commonly overused terms on the wiki and all of Vs Debating and usually it's just used an excuse to pretend feats never happened. Hyperbole's and alleged capabilities based on speculation are different can of worms however.
Anyway, I personally think Dread is being the most reasonable user here thus far.
- 3,493
- 1,360
I would suggest adding possible, as we don’t know the methods of which it is done.
PrinceofPein
Username Only- 9,057
- 5,983
Yes this is derailing and I just said the feat been an outlier is another argument entirely and I am not interested in it right now.
Outliers are not meant to say a feat did not happen, but to find a consistent tier for a certain character, at least you know you should know this.
- 31,411
- 34,220
I have RL work soon, try not to kill each other while I'm gone.
- 10,220
- 11,654
However, the upgrade is substantial enough to warrant a bit more staff input imo
That said, I personally think is as straight forward as straight forward can be, so I agree with the thread.
- 104
- 8
Outsider perspective on someone who worked on this series on another forum:
I know about this feat, but I never took it seriously. We're never told how Justin would create this alternate universe, and there are plenty of magical items that he might be able to use, which is to say that there being a spell that Justin can use to do it is a baseless assumption. Alex says that he can use magic, but she doesn't say that he can use a spell.
Alex would likely only reach this level with the Russo family wand, which she presumably has. The only time we see her create an alternate reality is by using this specific wand, which is greater than the training wands the kids use at the time this statement is made.
With their own magic, the best feat and statement are Alex's black hole creation (with Alex's pulling in everything in the universe) and the star-moving feat. The most powerful wand in the universe also created a black hole.
And because it was mentioned earlier: it doesn't take three wizards to tie someone up. Jerry made that spell so the kids could learn to work together, which was the theme of the episode.
I know about this feat, but I never took it seriously. We're never told how Justin would create this alternate universe, and there are plenty of magical items that he might be able to use, which is to say that there being a spell that Justin can use to do it is a baseless assumption. Alex says that he can use magic, but she doesn't say that he can use a spell.
Alex would likely only reach this level with the Russo family wand, which she presumably has. The only time we see her create an alternate reality is by using this specific wand, which is greater than the training wands the kids use at the time this statement is made.
With their own magic, the best feat and statement are Alex's black hole creation (with Alex's pulling in everything in the universe) and the star-moving feat. The most powerful wand in the universe also created a black hole.
And because it was mentioned earlier: it doesn't take three wizards to tie someone up. Jerry made that spell so the kids could learn to work together, which was the theme of the episode.
