Why is the Star Rod from Paper Mario planet level?

[WarriorWare]

Any page that mentions it just basically seems to say "this thing is planet level because it scales to the Star Rod which is planet level because I say so." It doesn't have its own page or anything, so what's the deal? I certainly don't recall any planet level feats or statements concerning the thing.

 

[Unclechairman]

I haven't played the games in a while, but according to the Mario Wiki, it has absolute power over wishes.

Wishes of the populace (transmitted through the Crystal Stars) in the second game enabled Mario and co. to defeat the Shadow Quee.

 

[Antvasima]

You can ask Dino Ranger Black for input here. He is the Mario expert.

 

[WarriorWare]

I haven't played the games in a while, but according to the Mario Wiki, it has absolute power over wishes.
Wishes of the populace (transmitted through the Crystal Stars) in the second game enabled Mario and co. to defeat the Shadow Quee.

Smells like retroactive scaling to me. I dunno about that.

 

[Dino_Ranger_Black]

The concept of wishes is generally treated to be at planetary source of power at minimum, going back to SMRPG and Paper Mario where Star Hill and the Star Spirits holds all the world wishes all the way to how most villians plan to use this power to control the world such as Cackletta and the BeanStar and Waluigi with the Music Keys. Infact, the Genie in SML3: Warioland was to create an entire planet for Wario. Because of this, most wish granting items in Marioverse are treated to be Planet level at minimum, unless dialouge, story, or it's concept implies otherwise. The most notable example are the Crystal Stars which the Shadow Queen made to create the planet in her image only to be used against her. Uncle already provided the second example from me.

 

[Unclechairman]

Smells like retroactive scaling to me. I dunno about that.

What's the issue with it?

 

[WarriorWare]

I'm not sure if wish-granting really always means planet level here. Yes, there are plenty of wish-granting things in Mario that do either planet-level or planet-wide-range things, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the Star Rod is the same thing if there is no reason for it to be.

 

[Dino_Ranger_Black]

Like I said if the story, dialouge, or concept of the particular object implies otherwise, that's usually the minimum scale. The Star Spirits roles are similar to the Star Road and considering the Star Rod overpowered the former that's nothing contradicting here. I pretty much included everything that has to be said so I'll be closing the topic now.

 

[Antvasima]

Perhaps you could include a more elaborate explanation in the Star Rod page (if there is one)?

 

[Unclechairman]

I'm not sure if wish-granting really always means planet level here. Yes, there are plenty of wish-granting things in Mario that do either planet-level or planet-wide-range things, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the Star Rod is the same thing if there is no reason for it to be.

As I said, the Star Rod has near-absolute power over wishes. The only wish-related beings capable of overriding it are the Star Spirits themselves.

So, as regards wish power, the scaling goes;

Star Spirits > Star Rod > Everything else.

Anything done with wish power should automatically scale to the Star Rod and Star Spirits unless the Star Spirits themselves did it, in which case it'd scale only to them.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Help with explaining this in a section in an appropriate profile, would be very appreciated.

 

[Unclechairman]

Bowser's and Mario's, right?

I really think that Planet level rating should be removed from Peach's profile, though. She was just assisting Mario, who did all the work against Bowser. Most of her wish power went to Twink to help him defeat Kammy Koopa, and Twink then went on to join the Star Spirits to power up Star Beam into Peach Beam, which is what overpowered the amped Bowser and Star Rod.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. What do you think DRB, and do you need any profiles temporarily unlocked?

 

[Dino_Ranger_Black]

But Bowser overpowered the Star Spirits with the Star Rod though. It's really more like Star Rod = Star Spirits. And while Mario did indeed do all the fighting, it was Peach's wishes that ultimately overpowered Bowser's amped rod in the process since the Star Beam was worthless after Bowser amped himself and this power returned in Bowser's Inside Story and Dream Team.

 

[Dino_Ranger_Black]

@ Ant I'll provide an explaination but I rather do it later since I have to leave for work now.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thank you. Tell me here when you need the profiles unlocked.

 

[Unclechairman]

Bowser and the Star Rod only managed to overpower the Star Spirits with Kammy Koopa's magic arena she built specifically to power him up. Under normal circumstances (e.g., the first real fight with Bowser right before this one), the Star Spirits are stronger.

Peach and Twink simply added onto the strength the Star Spirits already had to overpower the strength Bowser gained. It goes like this;

Bowser/Star Rod < Star Spirits

Bowser/Star Rod + Kammy's arena powerup > Star Spirits

Bowser/Star Rod + Kammy's arena powerup < Star Spirits + Twink and Peach's wishing power.

Where did this power return in Bowser's Inside Story and Dream Team? Are you referring to the instance in which Peach telekinetically hurled Bowser out of her castle using (if I recall) wish power?

 

[Dino_Ranger_Black]

The first part is completely wrong. Bowser overpowered the Star Spirits with the Star Rod and sealed them in cards right in the beginning of the game. It's the reason why Mario has to rescue the Star Spirits to begin with. So objectively speaking, the Star Rod is equal to the Star Spirits.

Yes, I was referring to that in the game. Before Peach hurled Bowser, Starlow pointed out that her star power and Peach's wishing power weakened him. Plus, let's not forget her wish power ultimately helped Mario in the battle of the Shadow Queen, shattering her invicibility that even the Star Crystal intially could bypass despite being created by the demon in the first place.

Anyway, Ant. I'm ready to edit Bowser's page now.

 

[LordXcano]

Wait. When do wishes ever disply planet level power? Even say, changing the face of the planet isn't planet level. It's reality warping with multi-continent range.

 

[Unclechairman]

It's been a long while since I've played Paper Mario, so excuse my ignorance. However, I still stand by my point that Peach did not overpower amped Bowser on her own.

As for the Shadow Queen, Peach was far from the only one assisting Mario with wish power, though. The Crystal Stars drew energy from basically everyone that Mario ever interacted with in TTYD. She mainly helped by restoring Mario and his partners' HP, FP, and Star Points.

 

[Unclechairman]

Wait. When do wishes ever disply planet level power? Even say, changing the face of the planet isn't planet level. It's reality warping with multi-continent range.

I went by the example I know. The Crystal Stars were always treated as Planet level on this wiki, on top of the Shadow Queen being touted as able to destroy the world. That said, you have a point, and she and the Crystal Stars may need downgraded to City level.

As for wish power, Dino Ranger Black mentioned a genie in Wario Land creating (or was supposed to create) a planet for Wario. I haven't played Wario Land, though, so ask him.

 

[Dino_Ranger_Black]

She actually did as Eldstar exclaimed he has a new power flowing in him. It's even the reason why it's called the Peach Beam to begin with. And that's widely debatable on the Shadow Queen, part as the partner present with Mario will exclaiming they are surging with energy. It's implies Peach did more than simply resotring them.

 

[Dino_Ranger_Black]

For those who are curious, this is Wario Land ending I was referring to: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdHsX-KJRG4

The final ending shows the Genie granting Wario a planet if the player can offer him a sufficient amount of money.

 

[Unclechairman]

That's not really proof that she contributed all of the power, just enough to allow the Star Spirits to overpower amped Bowser and the Star Rod.

As for the Shadow Queen, sure, but again, she wasn't the only one contributing power.

I think her weakening and then hurling Bowser in BIS is the best representation of what she can do alone with wish energy.

 

[Dark649]

The final ending shows the Genie granting Wario a planet if the player can offer him a sufficient amount of money.

Now, about Wario Land, has Rudy the Clown powers comparable to that of this genie?.

 

[Dino_Ranger_Black]

I know there's more to it but that lead into a long argument I don't have the time for at the moment. I still stand by the Shadow Queen since going by the dialouge, the partners( and possibly Mario as well) was only able to feel granted a boost in power after Peach used her remaining power on them into the point where their normal attacks work on her.

There's also her and Starlow stopping Bowser from using the Dreamstone as well.

 

[Dino_Ranger_Black]

There's really not that much to go by for Rudy. He said(or claimed) to be the god of the world Wario was warped into and had his powers sealed away. When got his powers back, he claim that he will control the world and the world Wario's from as well. The only powers I recall from seeing from him is the ability to turn the inhabitants into monsters after he was sealed. Apart from powerscaling, I can't really say there's anything we can use to scale Rudy from all this.

 

[Dark649]

There's really not that much to go by for Rudy.

Thanks for the informations, Rudy was the only wario land final boss that i didn't know much about him.

 

[LordXcano]

For those who are curious, this is Wario Land ending I was referring to: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdHsX-KJRG4
The final ending shows the Genie granting Wario a planet if the player can offer him a sufficient amount of money.

That's not a planet that's a moon, not to mention we don't know if he created or or if he just put Wario's face on it.

 

[Dino_Ranger_Black]

@Dark No problem

@Cano Wrong. It's clearly a planet with the continents and atmsohpere and one created by the Genie.

 

[Antvasima]

I will temporarily unlock Bowser. Tell me here when you are done.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I'm afraid I got lost. What's being up/downgraded/changed here?

 

[Dino_Ranger_Black]

@Ant Ok, I'm done Ant. Sorry for the delay.

@The real cal howard Not much. Just an explaining the statistics the Star Rod recieved. I just provided an explaination.

 

[Antvasima]

No problem. I will re-lock the page.