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Because one is specifically harming or affecting a target's soul which is dura negation if you can't defend. The other is just using souls, whether it be yours or someone else's for a source of a attack.
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Why is Soul manipulation treated as a dura neg?
- Thread starter DTG499
- Start date
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Soul-Based attacks can just be ’attacks made of Soul’, which may not negate Durability. However, attacking someone’s Soul is attacking a metaphysical representation of someone- you’re not attacking something Physical, and therefore you bypass someone’s physical durability.
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Fairy Tail Character souls have the same AP and Durability as their main bodies, the souls just exist on a different plane of existence
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And? That’s a verse specific thing. Oftentimes, those characters have abilities such as Resistance to Soul Manip, or, at the very least, Limited Resistance. I’ve even seen characters with 2 Durability stats- one for their bodies, one with their Souls. We’re talking about ‘in general’, aka its Hax and not AP related because most often the Soul is not physical.
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Honestly how the Soul Manipulation works is case by case, I rarely see Soul Manip function the same in different fictions
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Remember that when there's a power called X Manipulation do not always means they manipulate X like Aang bends elements, it can be any application, like absorbing, destroying, removing, creating, recreating, draining, reducing, and so on, the properties of X.
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An example:
Korra from The Legend of Korra can manipulate currently existing Water and use it to strike foes. Divine Beast vah Ruta from The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild doesn’t manipulate currently existing water, but rather creates endless water. Neither is more ‘Water Manipulation’ than the other, both are the same power, just different utilizations.
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Soul Manipulation will always be durability negation because whether it harms the soul significantly or not it bypasses their physical body. For example, if someone was wearing a suit of armor that made them more durable, but by attacking their soul directly, whether or not their soul also has durability, that armor they're wearing has been negated.
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Yea that’s the case with Wraith he uses actual human souls to attack his opponents yet his attack doesn’t bypass durability he just attacks the physical body of his opponent https://***********.com/read-online/Fairy-Tail-100-Years-Quest-chapter-36-page-19.html
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Wraith is a prime example, in the very same chapter he shows 2 different applications of soul manipulation.
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Yea he uses souls to attack his opponent that don’t bypass durability
but then he has a spell where he ignores Natsu’s durability by just ripping his soul out of him and putting him in a semi dead state
but then he has a spell where he ignores Natsu’s durability by just ripping his soul out of him and putting him in a semi dead state
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- Thread starter
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When the soul has direct scaling to someone’s AP how can we say it’s dura neg?
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- Thread starter
- #53
Ki is also metaphysical but we treat it differently because it’s scaled to AP majority of time.
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Are people... attacking someone’s Ki, or attacking someone with Ki? Is there some context behind this, because I don’t understand.
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Assuming this is about ki given earlier in the thread, we don't consider ki to be someone's soul. DB already shown what souls look like, which are just little wisp balls. Ki by our standards is simply a type of life-energy.
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- Thread starter
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Ki and soul are not the same exact thing but are still both metaphysical concepts.
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In dragon ball yes people do have the ability to attack their Ki and they over come it by having a stronger Ki/AP.
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So the core point is this, Soul manipulation by itself is considered durability negation because many of those that posses directly affect others and a character's physical power/durability isn't tied to it.
Several cases are: Silver Chariot Requiem from the Jojo, The Ancient One from the MCU, Mahito from Jujutsu Kaisen. In all three of those cases, one's physical power is shown to have no effect on whether or not their soul can be manipulated.
In regards to Chi manipulation, this is a power that is mostly tied to controlling an innate energy in oneself without directly controlling someone elses. Naruto and Dragonball are both common examples in which most characters are manipulating their own ki and then just using it as source of power and nothing more. Attack with Chi (or whatever name the energy has in the setting) normally only harms ones physcial self without doing anything more, so those that are just physically durable are shown able to survive the attacks without any need for resistance of the such. However, in the cases in which characters were shown to use ki manipulation in ways that completely negated durability, such as Moro or Pain absorbing it from others, then it would be considered negating durability.
In Dragon Ball, ones Ki is rarely if ever targeted and for those that do such a thing we consider them to have durability negation.
Look at Moro, Andriod 19 and Doctor Gero. All three are considered to have durability negation because their manipulation of Ki care not for one's durability.
Several cases are: Silver Chariot Requiem from the Jojo, The Ancient One from the MCU, Mahito from Jujutsu Kaisen. In all three of those cases, one's physical power is shown to have no effect on whether or not their soul can be manipulated.
In regards to Chi manipulation, this is a power that is mostly tied to controlling an innate energy in oneself without directly controlling someone elses. Naruto and Dragonball are both common examples in which most characters are manipulating their own ki and then just using it as source of power and nothing more. Attack with Chi (or whatever name the energy has in the setting) normally only harms ones physcial self without doing anything more, so those that are just physically durable are shown able to survive the attacks without any need for resistance of the such. However, in the cases in which characters were shown to use ki manipulation in ways that completely negated durability, such as Moro or Pain absorbing it from others, then it would be considered negating durability.
In Dragon Ball, ones Ki is rarely if ever targeted and for those that do such a thing we consider them to have durability negation.
Look at Moro, Andriod 19 and Doctor Gero. All three are considered to have durability negation because their manipulation of Ki care not for one's durability.
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That’s where you are wrong. The abilities haven’t worked on someone physically stronger have they?
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Boro is clearly shown draining Vegeta of his power even though he's considered weaker and in fact uses Vegeta to make himself stronger and Vegeta weaker over the course of their fight.
And for the androids, never is stated or shown that people can be too powerful for them to drain ki from. So we wouldn't assume that it's tied to power at all, since you know, that's never been a thing in dragonball.
And for the androids, never is stated or shown that people can be too powerful for them to drain ki from. So we wouldn't assume that it's tied to power at all, since you know, that's never been a thing in dragonball.
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That would still be Durability Negation.
You'd have to be able to prove that the Physical Container of the Soul, when powered by Soul, is able to stop the attack from hitting the Soul itself.
Just being powered by a Supernatural Energy Source based on the Soul does not automatically mean that the Physical Container can block/tank the attack meant for the Soul.
You'd have to be able to prove that the Physical Container of the Soul, when powered by Soul, is able to stop the attack from hitting the Soul itself.
Just being powered by a Supernatural Energy Source based on the Soul does not automatically mean that the Physical Container can block/tank the attack meant for the Soul.
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So you're saying that because the Container of the Soul has X Durability because of Fictional Energy that is derived from the Soul, that the Soul would also have the same Durability as the Container, as well as the Container being able to repel Durability Negating Soul Attacks because of said Fictional Energy if the attack has a lower Tier?
Is this what you're implying?
Is this what you're implying?
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I think you're really getting hung up on the metaphysical thing when that's not what makes any power by itself durability negation. That's just one of the aspects to it.
Because not everything metaphyscial is the same or even interacts. Chi manipulation is looked at as life energy, while soul manipulation is just looked at as manipulating a soul, something that isn't considered metaphysical energy but considered a metaphysical thing. Both are inherently quite different from one another and only share the common characteristic of being metaphysical.
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