Why aren't Player-supported characters granted Type 8 Immortality?

[StrymULTRA]

Essentially, my question is why video game characters who are canonically controlled by a player (such as the Batter, Ness or Kris) granted Type 8 Immortality, as they'd technically be able to have access to the Save and Load mechanic as well due to almost all the time being mentioned from in-verse characters.

 

[Deidalius]

I have the same question too.

 

[The_Pink_God]

Maybe it's something to do with Load and Save themselves? Like as if it needs to be canon for that to be a thing? Idk just throwing my two cents here

 

[TWILIGHT-OP]

That would make them unkillable then.

they'd technically be able to have access to the Save and Load

 

[The_Pink_God]

That would make them unkillable then.

... Yeah... That's the point of Immortality

 

[TWILIGHT-OP]

... Yeah... That's the point of Immortality

Tho type 8 can still die with destroying the said concept/ stuff which a character is reliant on, but you are asking for something which is quiet the opposite, say how u going to kill a character, if he can just save his data and load it again.

 

[StrymULTRA]

That would make them unkillable then.

Exactly, as they have the Player backing them up.

 

[TWILIGHT-OP]

Exactly, as they have the Player backing them up.

I may be wrong but Why do I think u asking this for Minecraft Steve?

 

[The_Pink_God]

say how u going to kill a character, if he can just save his data and load it again.

Range, just have enough range to affect the player and you good

 

[MeidoIzayoi]

Range, just have enough range to affect the player and you good

and what's the range for that?

 

[StrymULTRA]

I may be wrong but Why do I think u asking this for Minecraft Steve?

I've mentioned the characters involved in OP.

and what's the range for that?

Usually beyond the character's world, which depends on the cosmology of the verse.

 

[TWILIGHT-OP]

I've mentioned the characters involved in OP.

Ic .

 

[Furudo_Erika]

and what's the range for that?

Possibly 1-A at least under Ultima's new system, which basically says that actual R>F differences is inherently 1-A as a R>F realm is existentially superior than any amount of dimensions (and dimensions only reaching Low 1-A at most now).

And the Player's world would seem like a R>F difference over the character's world.

 

[The_Pink_God]

Right, that would make so every character who has that thingy going on would receive 1-A Type 8 Immortality

 

[Deidalius]

Doesn't a fictional character interacting with someone who views them as fiction without becoming more real disqualify that character from having R>F transcendences?

 

[Furudo_Erika]

Doesn't a fictional character interacting with someone who views them as fiction without becoming more real disqualify that character from having R>F transcendences?

Elaborate on what you mean by "interacting"?

Physically interacting with the player, such as being able to attack them, yeah. That will definitely disqualify them for R>F.

But "interacting", such as talking about them or to them while in the game world, probably wouldn't disqualify them, as that isn't physically breaching into the real world. That'll likely just be 4th Wall Awareness.

As long as the barrier between R>F isn't physically breached, it should be fine.

 

[Furudo_Erika]

Note that "is like fiction" and "is fiction" are completely different now.

"Being like fiction", would likely be one dimensional level higher. But actually BEING fiction is 1-A.

So breaching the R>F difference would mean that the "real" world and game world are physically connected in some way (which would disqualify it from being 1-A). While an actual R>F difference, the real world is completely detached from the game world and its properties, and is inaccessible from it.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Can we now get back on the topic lol?

 

[Deidalius]

Yeah, I think that all characters that canonically get revived by the player should get Type 8 immortality

 

[Furudo_Erika]

Yeah, I think that all characters that canonically get revived by the player should get Type 8 immortality

Can't wait for that Neptunia buff.

 

[Arceus0x]

Yeah, I think that all characters that canonically get revived by the player should get Type 8 immortality

I second that

 

[Furudo_Erika]

A bit off topic, but I genuinely do not know if The Player in Neptunia would be Low 1-C, possibly High 1-C, or 1-A.

As characters and The Player DO interact, but not in a typical way in VIIR. They can only interact in the VR Dimension, which is explicitly stated to be a "virtual space" created by overlapping the Heavenly plane and the game world.

So the VR Dimension isn't the "real world", nor is it the game world. Rather, it could be akin to something "inbetween" them. Kinda like an augmented reality or something, that blends the lines between fiction and reality.

 

[Thelastmlg]

hmmm, yeah i think this is a good question too, perhaps is because, even if they are canonically controlled by a player, they might not canonically have the save and load abilities? like, it can be assumed by default that the character and player canonically never die in the journey

 

[The_Pink_God]

That's my initial thought as well
Like how we always assume Load and Saves are never canon unless explicitly stated to be, and assume that the characters never died once in-game during Gameplay outside from specific Cutscenes

 

[Ang4I00]

Solid Snake 1-A Immo Type 8 would go crazy ngl

 

[StrymULTRA]

Like how we always assume Load and Saves are never canon unless explicitly stated to be

Wym "explicitly stated to be", most of the time they are.

 

[Ang4I00]

Wym "explicitly stated to be", most of the time they are.

Huh? Aren't they game mechanics most of the time and not canon?

 

[StrymULTRA]

Huh? Aren't they game mechanics most of the time and not canon?

In a game where having a player is canon though.

 

[Accelerated_Evolution]

Bro wants to give 1-A Immortality to Frisk

 

[Arceus0x]

Why is everyone assuming that the player is always 1-A?
You need explicist r>f for 1-A. If a player isn't stated to view the entire universe as just a video game I doubt much would change since otherwise they could very much be just a superior entity with a specific set of abilities that is located outside of the universe in most cases.
An example would be the Chief in Clash of Clans where the villager, trader and builders can talk to him but technically he is an invisible force who just appears in his village sometimes, passively restores the buildings and manages it via draggin it with TK or sth. He also has to move through clouds to get to other villages to attack them. Is he 1-A for being the player? Absolutely not. You need actual proof here, like in OFF.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Plus the accusation of me wanting to make Undertale getting 1-A hax when I am explicitly against R>F in the verse is just uncalled and a dishonest way to look at me.

 

[Arceus0x]

Plus the accusation of me wanting to make Undertale getting 1-A hax when I am explicitly against R>F in the verse is just uncalled and a dishonest way to look at me.

reading comperhension when powerscalers walk in

 

[Everything12]

We usually do if we are presented with evidence that it's a canonical thing that happens. If there is a series that has this evidence but is lacking the ability then no one actually presented the evidence.

Possibly 1-A at least under Ultima's new system, which basically says that actual R>F differences is inherently 1-A as a R>F realm is existentially superior than any amount of dimensions (and dimensions only reaching Low 1-A at most now).

And the Player's world would seem like a R>F difference over the character's world.

Not actually the case, the second requirement for true reality-fiction relationship is that reality has evidence of being transcendentally powerful. They can't just be a powerless regular human playing a video game that also happens to be an actual world. They must have evidence that they are powerful being on their own, so player characters who generally just exist unseen and have no evidence of having any power outside of control of the video game won't count.

 

[StrymULTRA]

We usually do if we are presented with evidence that it's a canonical thing that happens. If there is a series that has this evidence but is lacking the ability then no one actually presented the evidence.

"That happens" you mean that the character has actually used the ability before?

 

[Everything12]

Even with series where we have a player character be a canonical being, that doesn't necessarily mean that the ability to Save and Load is itself canonical. Probably is, but not always.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Even with series where we have a player character be a canonical being, that doesn't necessarily mean that the ability to Save and Load is itself canonical. Probably is, but not always.

Well, you reminded me now of the good ol' "just because some game mechanics are canon in the story, it doesn't mean that all of them are", which is a good reason.

 

[Accelerated_Evolution]

Plus the accusation of me wanting to make Undertale getting 1-A hax when I am explicitly against R>F in the verse is just uncalled and a dishonest way to look at me.

I don't think you should take a joke seriously

 

[Ailamiona]

Why is everyone assuming that the player is always 1-A?
You need explicist r>f for 1-A. If a player isn't stated to view the entire universe as just a video game I doubt much would change since otherwise they could very much be just a superior entity with a specific set of abilities that is located outside of the universe in most cases.

Cookie Run 1-A real?