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I know it's an imperbole but being faster than concept of speed and distance is meant to be immesurable speed.
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When Creators Cry: Answer Arcs (Yes, it's a downgrade)
- Thread starter QuasiYuri
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The speed will have to be above immesurable speed because crossing time is still part of distance.
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Because time and distance are what we use to calculate speed so if they aren't available it will make it irrelevant.
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Time travel via sheer speed isn't the only thing that grants immeasurable though.
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It’s not required
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You don't need an explicit feat of travelling through time with speed to have immeasurable speed.
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Game Master Battler is definitely Immeasurable speed without a doubt, the only one I suspected was Infinite speed was Piece Battler.
GM Battler could literally rewrite the story to give Piece Erika duct tapes in an earlier time in the physical world.
He can rewrite the Plot of his gameboard whenever he wants to, which directly changes Time on it.
So 1-B GM Battler being immeasurable is pretty clear, the one up to debate is Piece Battler.
GM Battler could literally rewrite the story to give Piece Erika duct tapes in an earlier time in the physical world.
He can rewrite the Plot of his gameboard whenever he wants to, which directly changes Time on it.
So 1-B GM Battler being immeasurable is pretty clear, the one up to debate is Piece Battler.
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This feat that everyone saying is a Hyperbole and complained that it should be Infinite Speed, everyone forgot that this was casually done in the Cathedral, which was several dimensions above the gameboard
The characters were fighting with Infinite Speed in a place with much much higher dimension and layer of existence than the physical world, making them being Immeasurable speed consistent.
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It depends.
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That doesn't seem to be speed, tho...that just seems to be as a result of his rewriting abilities.
That isn't how Immeasurable speed is given
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Meh, if it were hyperbole, it wouldn't even be infinite speed.
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She isn't doing this with her actual speed, tho. It's just time manipulation. You're mistaking time manipulation with Immeasurable speed.
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I thought transcending time wasn't enough for an immeasurable speed rating, but I'll try checking the FAQ
Edit: Just checked, and yeah I'm fine with Immeasurable speed being there
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so you have immeasurable speed via transcending time now?
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Nah, I just misinterpreted the argument that Darksmash made.
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No irs bad. Immeasurable speed is basically another name for time travel wank.
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He transcended physical world time completely to the point he can toy with it.
That's easily Immeasurable speed.
Time manipulation doesn't contradict speed feats btw, Hunter Zolomon from DC is Infinite Speed even when he achieved it with Time manipulation.
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Let me have characters that walk back and forth in time
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That isn't how immeasurable speed works.
You didn't understand my point. What I meant is that time manipulation cannot be the foundation for an immeasurable speed argument.
Anyway, I already agreed with immeasurable speed for Battler and other characters, so we might as well settle the topic
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Completely transcending physical world time to the point he views it as fiction is at least Immeasurable speed.
This is the wiki's definition of Immeasurable speed:
Immeasurable speed characters are far beyond even those Infinite speed characters listed above. They perceive infinite speed characters as completely frozen, and they can travel forward and backward in time at will. They have the speed necessary to hop from the beginning of time, to the end of time, and anywhere in between as casually as a human being can roll their eyes left or right. This also means their reaction time is faster than instantaneous. They can dodge an attack that already has been struck, and they can strike someone even before they launched an attack. And they can do all of this via sheer speed.
Battler transcends the physical world completely, including its time, he can rewind it however he likes, he can enter the game at whatever point of time he likes. Time on his gameboard is merely an extension of Battler's own creation.
My point absolutely stands.
Glad to see that you agree, but my point absolutely stands and is in line with the Wiki's standards.
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That has never once been immeasurable speed. No verse gets immeasurable speed through such shallow reasoning.
Irrelevant. Him transcending the world and being able to manipulate time doesn't grant any kind of speed rating if he's not doing any of that time stuff with his raw speed. It's just time hax.
It really isn't, but yeah I agree due to Darksmash's reasoning
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.........what ?
Kakeras contain the entire story of the lower layers, which means their time as well. So all meta beings should have immeasurable speed by virtue of transcending time ig
Darksmash's reasoning is the same as mine. I just explained it even further.
This was my reasoning:
GM Battler could literally rewrite the story to give Piece Erika duct tapes in an earlier time in the physical world.
Battler transcends the physical world completely, including its time, he can rewind it however he likes, he can enter the game at whatever point of time he likes. Time on his gameboard is merely an extension of Battler's own creation.
Can you point out the differences in our statements?
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Whether Umineko characters should be downgraded, with additional clarifications in their abilities.
To be honest the closer I am to Episode 8, the more it is starting to seem that Outerversal Uminek characters is still possible.
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Someone posted about Battler not having immeasurable speed, I went to disprove it as a sidequest.
It is starting to dawn upon me that several users in this discussion actually aren't knowledgeable about Umineko and are just hoping onto the downgrade bandwagon.
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No, it's not. His is transcending the worlds, with each world having its own form of time.
That's somewhat true ig. However, I mostly agreed with Darksmash's thing cause witches have shown to be able to traverse numerous kakeras and stuff like that, whereas your argument was basically just a transcendence and time manipulation. I didn't agree with Umy's argument because of the transcendence alone.
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Well if something hasn't been debunked we consider it here "correct to apply". A random user can hop onto this thread and debunk everything, and we'll agree to him regardless if he's knowledgeable or not.
What we want is counter arguments.
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I am pretty sure these statements were very clearly implied in my explanations, and the context of each world having its own time already discussed several posts above mine.
GM Battler could literally rewrite the story to give Piece Erika duct tapes in an earlier time in the physical world.
Battler transcends the physical world completely, including its time, he can rewind it however he likes, he can enter the game at whatever point of time he likes. Time on his gameboard is merely an extension of Battler's own creation.
This statement alone encompassed Battler transcending the physical world, and that the physical world has its own time which was part of his creation.
Anyways as long as you have accepted that Immeasurable speed is true, I have already done my part on speed, I am now going back to the main dish.
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That may be true, but some of them may just be convinced by the arguments on certain sides. It's not just to downgrade the verse. I personally disagree (to some degree) with the downgrade. I agree with removing the whole thing with 3rd domain, but there are things I disagree with.
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You mean fighting in locked time? Qawsed already replied why it's infinite speed recently.
This is wrong tbh plus it is talking how characters can move through time via sheer speed not Manipulate time in form of hax.
Irrelevant is only for 1A.
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I mean when Battler is the gamemaster of his own world, where he exists outside of the time of the world he created, and gameboard's time is just part of his own creation, and he exists in higher layer of the Meta World as GM where he views his own lower world's time as fiction where he can manipulate however he likes, how would the concept of "Speed" even be measurable for him?
His speed would exactly be what his speed rating suggests - his speed would be immeasurable in the physical world aka his own gameboard.
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I did say that Irrelevant speed is for Outerversal characters because they transcend ALL form of time whether it be higher or lower worlds. I brought it up because people were arguing that transcending time itself isn't a speed feat which I brought this up as a counter argument.
If we apply this to Battler, Battler transcends time of the physical world aka the lower world which he created as a gameboard, but he doesn't transcend "Time" in higher worlds yet, hence he would be Immeasurable but not Irrelevant speedwise.
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