When Creators Cry: Answer Arcs (Yes, it's a downgrade)

[Ebitan34]

Using 造物主 in the search bar instantly takes you to that page, which explain that it is used for any deity related to the world's birth and coe.

I have a jap friend who basically agreed with everything. He's not a lot into VS Debatting, but he finished Umineko quite recently. Could call him if needed, although I would prefer not.

Also my bad if I misinterpret it but why would you disagree by talking about context and all when I provided several scenes and parts clearly screaming plural even in the VN itself ?
I wouldn't mind if you disagree with arguments, but disagreeing without truly adressing the content just makes it pointless, if not annoying.

Because I have yet to complete reading the Visual Novel and manga myself. I have just now finished Episode 5 and am moving on to Episode 6.
Hence I never said that I disagree with you outright for now, I leave the decision to after I am done with the series, then to only decide if I agree or disagree with what you said or not, that's when I will either agree with the downgrades, or come up with counter arguments if I disagree with it. Only thing I requested for was for people fluent japanese to cross examine the validity of the Japanese translations, that's all.

My apologies if I sounded offensive to you in any way. I wish the discussion will not be closed yet because I feel like I am getting closer to the truth of the story, and would love to share my own intepretations of it too

 

[Ebitan34]

Wait...holy shit...

Wouldn't this mean Episode 1 ( or even further Episodes) as tales written by a human observer in the real human world???? Wouldn't this mean that the entire 7-D Tale of Rokkenjima actually be just a tale told by human observers and hence only Tier 11???

It says that the "world" is just a Tale told by human observer.

 

[Teezar]

Anyways, I would love to help edit but I am not knowledgeable on the verse

Yuri just gives you justifications that's all.

 

[Lormac_CC]

If that's all then I can help

 

[QuasiYuri]

Wouldn't this mean Episode 1 ( or even further Episodes) as tales written by a human observer in the real human world???? Wouldn't this mean that the entire 7-D Tale of Rokkenjima actually be just a tale told by human observers and hence only Tier 11???

It says that the "world" is just a Tale told by human observer.

Yes and no.

There's a lot of things going on regarding this particular Trick / Magic duality, but those get more sense later on.

Who wrote these letters and the context behind them is important.

 

[Birgi126]

Wait...holy shit...

Wouldn't this mean Episode 1 ( or even further Episodes) as tales written by a human observer in the real human world???? Wouldn't this mean that the entire 7-D Tale of Rokkenjima actually be just a tale told by human observers and hence only Tier 11???

It says that the "world" is just a Tale told by human observer.

You should really come back after finishing the entire thing, but yes, a completely non-fantasy interpretation where everything is written by humans exists. But that is just one of the interpretation you can make about the story, not definite.

 

[Guardian_Doge]

Wait...holy shit...

Wouldn't this mean Episode 1 ( or even further Episodes) as tales written by a human observer in the real human world???? Wouldn't this mean that the entire 7-D Tale of Rokkenjima actually be just a tale told by human observers and hence only Tier 11???

It says that the "world" is just a Tale told by human observer.

The forgeries were written by ikuko but they still take place as a fragment which are their own universe etc.

 

[Darksmash]

Wouldn't this mean Episode 1 ( or even further Episodes) as tales written by a human observer in the real human world???? Wouldn't this mean that the entire 7-D Tale of Rokkenjima actually be just a tale told by human observers and hence only Tier 11???

It says that the "world" is just a Tale told by human observer.

That's just a metaphor. We also see an instance of human domain Ange reading about the witch domain in a book, doesn't mean the human domain is above the witch domain.

Spoiler: Episode 8

Plus by the magic interpretation it's revealed that Beato gained higher dimensional perspective while she was writing those Kakeras iirc

and might just possibly be able to disagree with a downgrade.

Might be a nitpick on my part, but it seems you are heading into the verse with an intention of disproving the downgrade rather than coming up with a neutral opinion on the cosmology.

 

[Ebitan34]

That's just a metaphor. We also see an instance of human domain Ange reading about the witch domain in a book, doesn't mean the human domain is above the witch domain.

Spoiler: Episode 8

Plus by the magic interpretation it's revealed that Beato gained higher dimensional perspective while she was writing those Kakeras iirc

Might be a nitpick on my part, but it seems you are heading into the verse with an intention of disproving the downgrade rather than coming up with a neutral opinion on the cosmology.

Like I said multiple times from before, I have yet to make up my mind on whether i agree or disagree with the downgrade. I will only decide on this once I arrive at the truth of the story. If anything, I have came up with several questions that could have further downgraded the verse if not for explanations from other users, hence dispelling the myth of me coming in just to prevent the downgrade.
If I can find counterarguments that disagree with the downgrade, I would then use them to debate, otherwise I don't mind accepting it getting a downgrade if the justifications make sense.

I hope I made myself clear. Now allow me to continue enjoying the story from Episode 6 onwards...

 

[Teezar]

I hope I made myself clear. Now allow me to continue enjoying the story from Episode 6 onwards...

It's better to finish as then give input here.

 

[Ebitan34]

It's better to finish as then give input here.

Yeah, though I saw the discussion seems to have "concluded" not long ago and the thread might be closed anytime soon and changes be made right away.

Hence I felt that it would be better for me to request for the discussion to stay open first so that I can give my inputs too, otherwise if I just kept silent until I have finished reading the series, I might not be in time to come here to give my intepretations because the thread seems to be closing any time soon. So for precaution I figured that it would be a good idea for me to give a heads up first that I am soon to finish the series and might be able to offer educated opinions as someone who would soon finish the series.

I also read both the manga and watch the VN together to make sure I don't miss any crucial information.

 

[Lormac_CC]

Hence I felt that it would be better for me to request for the discussion to stay open first so that I can give my inputs too,

You can just make a new thread

 

[Ebitan34]

You can just make a new thread

Or better yet just don't close this thread yet. No need to rush things right?

 

[Lormac_CC]

Or better yet just don't close this thread yet. No need to rush things right?

The thread is already done, thread can't be opened because you aren't done reading Umineko. If you are done with reading the stuff, then you can make a thread with your own interpretation but right now things are already done and I really don't see why the thread should be opened till you are done

 

[Ebitan34]

The thread is already done, thread can't be opened because you aren't done reading Umineko. If you are done with reading the stuff, then you can make a thread with your own interpretation but right now things are already done and I really don't see why the thread should be opened till you are done

Things aren't done yet. The thread is still open. The thread is not closed. For months the thread is still open and not closed yet despite nothing new has been added to it yet. I don't see why it should be closed now when users with actual knowledge of the verse wants to contribute.


The discussion isn't over yet.


Also it isn't you call to close the thread, stop acting like it is.

 

[Lormac_CC]

Things aren't done yet. The thread is still open. The thread is not closed. For months the thread is still open and not closed yet despite nothing new has been added to it yet. I don't see why it should be closed now when users with actual knowledge of the verse wants to contribute.


The discussion isn't over yet.


Also it isn't you call to close the thread, stop acting like it is.

I think you misunderstood me

 

[Lormac_CC]

QuasiYuri said:
Anyway, if we aren't waiting for Ultima I would like to know who would be willing to help adding accepted stuff.

Antvasima said:
It needs to be members who have a good grasp/understanding of what they are doing.

QuasiYuri said:
I can easily make justifications for them to copy/paste and suchlike when needed so as long as they do good editing it shouldn't be too bad.

Antvasima said:
Okay. Thank you for the help. I am worried that the pages will get messed up or contain inaccurate information though.

Lormac_CC said:
Yuri is making justifications

QuasiYuri said:
I'm waiting for people proposing themselves to help before doing that actually.

This is the state of the thread. The only thing that hasn't really been agreed on is the concept stuff, most of what was proposed has already been agreed on,

 

[Lormac_CC]

Now what you are saying is that the changes shouldn't be made till you are done with reading Umineko so that you can give your input

 

[Tarang123]

Things aren't done yet. The thread is still open. The thread is not closed. For months the thread is still open and not closed yet despite nothing new has been added to it yet. I don't see why it should be closed now when users with actual knowledge of the verse wants to contribute.


The discussion isn't over yet.


Also it isn't you call to close the thread, stop acting like it is.

You misunderstood things. A conclusion has already been made and they’re just waiting for people to implement changes before the thread gets closed

 

[Ebitan34]

This is the state of the thread. The only thing that hasn't really been agreed on is the concept stuff, most of what was proposed has already been agreed on,

You misunderstood things. A conclusion has already been made and they’re just waiting for people to implement changes before the thread gets closed

For a conclusion to be made everyone knowledgeable of the verse has to agree right? Thing is I still haven't agreed yet (not trying to sound like I am important or what, but I think I do qualify as someone who also has knowledge of the verse for now, and would complete the series very soon, I am now on Episode 6 afterall)

 

[Ebitan34]

Now what you are saying is that the changes shouldn't be made till you are done with reading Umineko so that you can give your input

Changes haven't been made for months despite agreements from several members, is it a lot to wait for a few more days for knowledgeable feedback in comparison to months of idleness?

 

[Lormac_CC]

For a conclusion to be made everyone knowledgeable of the verse has to agree right? Thing is I still haven't agreed yet (not trying to sound like I am important or what, but I think I do qualify as someone who also has knowledge of the verse for now, and would complete the series very soon)

If you are knowledgeable, give your opinion now, thread can't wait till you become fully knowledgeable. No, a thread can be concluded with a huge percentage of those knowledgeable agreeing with it. It can even be concluded with just a few knowledgeable members

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

For a conclusion to be made everyone knowledgeable of the verse has to agree right?

No, actually. Not a single thread would be concluded otherwise.

As has been said, you can later on make one yourself. That would also give you way more time so you can read your stuff carefully, reunite any info you need, etc etc.

 

[Ebitan34]

If you are knowledgeable, give your opinion now, thread can't wait till you become fully knowledgeable. No, a thread can be concluded with a huge percentage of those knowledgeable agreeing with it. It can even be concluded with just a few knowledgeable members

No, actually. Not a single thread would be concluded otherwise.

As has been said, you can later on make one yourself. That would also give you way more time so you can read your stuff carefully, reunite any info you need, etc etc.

Thing is I don't understand why the sudden rush to implementation now when there were months where nothing was done even months after the "agreement". If haste was important, the thread should have already been closed months ago.

 

[Lormac_CC]

Changes haven't been made for months despite agreements from several members, is it a lot to wait for a few more days for knowledgeable feedback in comparison to months of idleness?

Just need volunteers to make the changes, I have already volunteered

 

[Ebitan34]

Just need volunteers to make the changes, I have already volunteered

I see, so it was a case of volunteering to make changes.

Okay then you guys can move on if you want to, I probably misunderstood the reason why the thread was open for months then.

If I have any changes I want to suggest, then I shall create a thread as you guys suggested.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Thing is I don't understand why the sudden rush to implementation now when there were months where nothing was done even months after the "agreement". If haste was important, the thread should have already been closed months ago.

Quite simple in this case.

You aren't even disagreeing with anything. You are asking for time to make a possible counterargument.

Well, you can take your time and make another thread. I don't get the insistence on waiting for a single individual that doesn't even have a problem with anything.

 

[Lormac_CC]

Thing is I don't understand why the sudden rush to implementation now when there were months where nothing was done even months after the "agreement". If haste was important, the thread should have already been closed months ago.

When the thread started it wasn't really getting replys, it was closed for sometime and then reopened, it isn't has long as you make it to be

 

[Ebitan34]

I see, so it was a case of volunteering to make changes.

Okay then you guys can move on if you want to, I probably misunderstood the reason why the thread was open for months then.

If I have any changes I want to suggest, then I shall create a thread as you guys suggested.

Yeah I think I understand the situation now.

 

[Tarang123]

For a conclusion to be made everyone knowledgeable of the verse has to agree right? Thing is I still haven't agreed yet (not trying to sound like I am important or what, but I think I do qualify as someone who also has knowledge of the verse for now, and would complete the series very soon, I am now on Episode 6 afterall)

Not every knowledgeable person has to agree, just most of them lol

 

[Antvasima]

Let's stop derailing please.

 

[Teezar]

Just need volunteers to make the changes, I have already volunteered

You have to tell yuri

 

[QuasiYuri]

I don't mind waiting for that guy to finish tho.

 

[LoliNeverforlife]

I could try to help too, but I'm still at the end of Episode 5 of the work and I'm following the work of DC Comics so I think maybe I'll try to help if it's done in time.

 

[Darksmash]

I have came up with several questions that could have further downgraded the verse

I have several such questions myself( Such as the notion of the catbox layers such as the Golden land having any kind of transcendence over other meta world locations) but I am saving them for another day.

Anyway, waiting is fine and all but we don't even know whether your interpretation will have any contribution towards the thread or not. I see this as just another factor that would needlessly stall this thread even further.

 

[OnsokunoSonic]

We should apply 1-A Creators and nuke "The Creator" Page and be done with this thread, the other guy should make another thread for it.

 

[MrKerf]

For a conclusion to be made everyone knowledgeable of the verse has to agree right?

Ah, if only things would work even close to that...

 

[Tarang123]

Ah, if only things would work even close to that...

If that were the case, then basically no CRT would ever pass

 

[Darksmash]

For a conclusion to be made everyone knowledgeable of the verse has to agree right?

Literally no CRT will ever pass in that case, because every verse has at least one guy whose sole purpose in life is trying to get said verse as high in the tier dick measuring contest as possible without any care for accuracy.

 

[Tarang123]

I think he was mostly quoting that other guy, hence why his second line was slashed through