What TIER DB character will get at the end of SUPER?

[Dragomer]

@Dragomer1. Trunks's statement comes from Z, which I have mentioned before that if such numerous Timelines existed in Dragon Ball, it was likely retconed in Super.
2. Pilaf is clearly asking a question in that scan, as in he doesn't know, and is speculating about how many Timelines exist.

3. If I understand correctly, the Dragon Ball Super Manga is not considered canon as it's a different continuity and is just promotional material for the Anime. Proof of this that Infinite Zamasu doesn't even exist in the Manga, so things that happen in just the Manga have no bearing on the canon continuity.

Can the statement about the Silver Time Rings representing the Timeline that you are currently in while the Green Time Rings represent other Timelines be accounted for in the Anime?

If not, then it can only be considered speculation unless further explored in the series.

and i'm arguing that it wasn't retconned , as it work with what was shown in DBS

Pilaf is not asking , he is just having an 'oh crap' and going 'SERIOUSLY ?!' over Trunk's bombshell , here for full context : https://plus.google.com/111360070266915769819/posts/gvEwohYSnHD (or watch the episode)

nope , DBS Manga is considered as secondary canon , it's canon as long as it doesn't contradict the anime , since both are supervised by Toriyama but the anime was launched first and the manga is presented as an 'addition' to the anime

also it pretty much happen in the anime too but manga scans are easier to find than episode screenshot and i was a bit too lazy to go screenshot it myself

IMO , the fact that there are more than 5 timeline is made pretty clear by all that , after it's true that it doesn't prove that there are infinit timeline (it's not what i'm trying to argue anyways) but that's not really relevant to the point i wanted to make

 

[Warren_Valion]

and i'm arguing that it wasn't retconned , as it work with what was shown in DBS

Pilaf is not asking , he is just having an 'oh crap' and going 'SERIOUSLY ?!' over Trunk's bombshell , here for full context : https://plus.google.com/111360070266915769819/posts/gvEwohYSnHD (or watch the episode)

nope , DBS Manga is considered as secondary canon , it's canon as long as it doesn't contradict the anime , since both are supervised by Toriyama but the anime was launched first and the manga is presented as an 'addition' to the anime

also it pretty much happen in the anime too but manga scans are easier to find than episode screenshot and i was a bit too lazy to go screenshot it myself

IMO , the fact that there are more than 5 timeline is made pretty clear by all that , after it's true that it doesn't prove that there are infinite timeline (it's not what i'm trying to argue anyways) but that's not really relevant to the point i wanted to make

Those pictures are just Trunks explaining how the Timelines are different from one another because of alterations to a Timeline, it's basically the same information that was in Z, they don't prove anything about there being "tons of different worlds", all there has shown to be is five.

In Dragon Ball, if you change the past, then a new timeline is made and your changes to the past have no barring to the future that you hail from. This is nothing new, we known this for like 20 years.

Pilaf's statement is meaningless, and has no bearing. If there were "tons of different worlds", then we would have seen all those Time Rings, but we don't, we only see five.

While it is definitely possible that there might be more timelines due to the seemingly endless dimension of Time Ring boxes, there's no concrete visual or verbal proof confirming such suspicions.

 

[Dragomer]

and i'm arguing that it wasn't retconned , as it work with what was shown in DBS

Pilaf is not asking , he is just having an 'oh crap' and going 'SERIOUSLY ?!' over Trunk's bombshell , here for full context : https://plus.google.com/111360070266915769819/posts/gvEwohYSnHD (or watch the episode)

nope , DBS Manga is considered as secondary canon , it's canon as long as it doesn't contradict the anime , since both are supervised by Toriyama but the anime was launched first and the manga is presented as an 'addition' to the anime

also it pretty much happen in the anime too but manga scans are easier to find than episode screenshot and i was a bit too lazy to go screenshot it myself

IMO , the fact that there are more than 5 timeline is made pretty clear by all that , after it's true that it doesn't prove that there are infinite timeline (it's not what i'm trying to argue anyways) but that's not really relevant to the point i wanted to make

Those pictures are just Trunks explaining how the Timelines are different from one another because of alterations to a Timeline, it's basically the same information that was in Z, they don't prove anything about there being "tons of different worlds", all there has shown to be is five.
In Dragon Ball, if you change the past, then a new timeline is made and your changes to the past have no barring to the future that you hail from. This is nothing new, we known this for like 20 years.

Pilaf's statement is meaningless, and has no bearing. If there were "tons of different worlds", then we would have seen all those Time Rings, but we don't, we only see five.

While it is definitely possible that there might be more timelines due to the seemingly endless dimension of Time Ring boxes, there's no concrete visual or verbal proof confirming such suspicions.

it's to explain the context of Pilaf's reaction

we are shown a box of 5 , took out of a dimension full of other boxes and the only thing said to be in this dimension are time ring , would they make a whole wall of boxes spanning an entier dimension for just 5 rings ?

Pilaf's statement is such a proof , the intents of it is clear and work with Trunks's statement in Z , the author didn't just make Pilaf say that for no reason , DBS is a pretty straighforward serie

two statement and the time ring boxes are pretty much enought proof , it's not like we have proof contradicting that and DBS has no reason to make us think that there are more than 5 timeline while it's not true , so the character's statement are clearly there for exposition and the dimensions was there as a visual proof

 

[Warren_Valion]

@Dragomer

1. The images don't give context to Pilaf's reaction or statement. All they do is explain how time travel works in Dragon Ball, and show Pilaf questioningly say that there are "tons of different worlds".

And besides, when was Pilaf an expert on Time Travel?

2. That's why I said it was possible, as logic would dictate that the dimensions with Time Ring boxes would contain an innumerable amount of Time Rings.

3. The idea that one statement from Trunks 20 years ago would still be relevant today when this Toriyama writing this series is a little preposterous, don't you think? This is the same guy who forgot about a prominent side character in the original Dragon Ball (Launch), you really think he remembers that one statement from Trunks.

Dragon Ball Super, while pretty straightforward, is also littered with inconsistency, and this could very well be an example of one.

 

[Dragomer]

@Dragomer
1. The images don't give context to Pilaf's reaction or statement. All they do is explain how time travel works in Dragon Ball, and show Pilaf questioningly say that there are "tons of different worlds".

And besides, when was Pilaf an expert on Time Travel?

2. That's why I said it was possible, as logic would dictate that the dimensions with Time Ring boxes would contain an innumerable amount of Time Rings.

3. The idea that one statement from Trunks 20 years ago would still be relevant today when this Toriyama writing this series is a little preposterous, don't you think? This is the same guy who forgot about a prominent side character in the original Dragon Ball (Launch), you really think he remembers that one statement from Trunks.

Dragon Ball Super, while pretty straightforward, is also littered with inconsistency, and this could very well be an example of one.

that's how Pilaf came to that conclusion , that's important

since he corrected Bulma's code and helped repair the time machine ? in the manga he even upgrade it to go to any paralel dimension and any future ; https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-...c8uyAXqbfDr2foZM5QcQCJoC/w265-h353-n-rw/2.png

when we have proof of a facts and no contradiction , it's *proven* , not just possible

that idea is still confirmed by Pilaf's statement and the visual proof of the dimension

the whole Launch thing is a missconsception , not helped by Toriyama himself though : http://www.kanzenshuu.com/rumor/characters/

i see it as one of it's best exemple of consitency , it's consistent with what is said (Pilaf) , what is shown (Dimension) and what was said previously (Trunks) , after , only time will tell if it STAY consistent , but that's another story altogether

 

[Warren_Valion]

@Dragomer Making a Time Machine doesn't necessarily mean you understand how many alternate timelines there are, or understand the concept of how time works completely.

He knows how to make/improve a time machine, not how time works. He improved the time machine to be able to move through any timeline, but he doesn't automatically know how many Timelines there are.

Pilaf's statement has no meaning because nothing proves that he actually knows anything more than how to make the time machine enter different realities.

It is said the Time Rings are created when alterations of a Timeline occur, there are only those five Time Rings that relate to Universe 7. While there is seemingly many more (the dimension), this also doesn't quite make sense in that time travel is heavily forbidden rule and that no one else has broken that rule except Trunks and the rest of the gang which explain why there are five Timelines in the first place.

Again, while I do find your theory possible, it's not definite as it's based on character statements without confirmed reliability. And changing the number of Timelines in Dragon Ball from five to a much larger number needs definite concrete proof.


P.S. I admit I was wrong about Launch, but you can't blame me for that, the creator himself said he forgot her.

 

[Kami95]

Either 2-C or 2-A (if someone manages to make infinite timelines tremble or something like that).

Or maybe a bunch of old feats will be confirmed to be an outlier and they will go back to 3-A :^)

 

[Nibbler3100]

Frieza overthrows Zen'o leaves his Multiverse and goes into other worlds to conquer oVo

 

[AmeliaSCooper]

This could be an oversight on his profile or something, but I do still find it massively hilarious at Goku being 2-C but being unable to survive in the vacuum of space.

 

[Dragomer]

This could be an oversight on his profile or something, but I do still find it massively hilarious at Goku being 2-C but being unable to survive in the vacuum of space.

honestly , the 'survive in space' thing in DB is just a plot device , when they need Goku or another character to insta die in space , they will but when Goku need to be in space for some time or just for a joke , he'll be just fine

 

[Antydeth]

Ok so this the conclusion for me so far: DBS gets a 2-A at best. Is this fair with all of you? Cause I'm done listening to people who overrate the show(the fanboys watching Mastermedia, Seththeproggrammer and so on) and underestimate it.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

Personally I think they are likely to be 2-C and have a possibility of being 2-B, with the highest they can go sitting at 2-A.

 

[Dragomer]

Ok so this the conclusion for me so far: DBS gets a 2-A at best. Is this fair with all of you? Cause I'm done listening to people who overrate the show(the fanboys watching Mastermedia, Seththeproggrammer and so on) and underestimate it.

what do you mean by 'gets a 2-A' ? like right now or 'how strong it will become' ?

because if it's 'how strong it will become' , well we can't really be fair while predicting what could happen , especialy when the guys in charge of the story board and writing change almost every weeks and Toriyama himself like to do random thing

 

[Golden_Void]

I don't think DB will have a Tier 1/0 character

 

[Warren_Valion]

I don't think DB will have a Tier 1/0 character

What about Tori-Bot?

 

[Assaltwaffle]

Even if they decide to put him in (which would be ridiculous and stupid) he would max out at High 2-A for transcending 4-D space. That is assuming it was even stated that he was transcendent of the DB multiverse. Tier 0 straight up isn't happening and Tier 1 would be an absolutely massive stretch.

 

[Dragomer]

I don't think DB will have a Tier 1/0 character

What about Tori-Bot?

Well , he is basicaly Toriyama , a real person , i don't think that this wiki count that kind of character

 

[Dragomer]

Even if they decide to put him in (which would be ridiculous and stupid) he would max out at High 2-A for transcending 4-D space. That is assuming it was even stated that he was transcendent of the DB multiverse. Tier 0 straight up isn't happening and Tier 1 would be an absolutely massive stretch.

how could the litteral author be 2-A at max ?

 

[Warren_Valion]

Well , he is basicaly Toriyama , a real person , i don't think that this wiki count that kind of character

Isn't that basically what TOAA is though?

A character who symbolizes the comic/manga writer?

 

[Assaltwaffle]

High 2-A For transcending the DB multiverse, which is 4-D. Until there is any confirmations of higher dimensions or multiple direct statements of him transcending dimensional space entirely he isn't going to Tier 1.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

I mean if they say he's 6D or above that'll be tier 1-C.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Because he hasn't created anything above a 2-A scale, you can't just assuming the story any author creates is automatically equal, i can create a story which all takes place a single city and insert myself as a character which completely transcends everything in the story, but said story hasn't shown anything above planet level, doesn't mean i am omnipotent.

Never understood why some people think author avators/characters are all somehow omnipotent when the stories they create haven't shown anything higher dimensional, much less omnipotence.

 

[Kaltias]

I think that they could reach 2-B, at most 2-A. Really doubt that higher dimensional shenanigans will happen

 

[Dragomer]

Well , he is basicaly Toriyama , a real person , i don't think that this wiki count that kind of character

Isn't that basically what TOAA is though?
A character who symbolizes the comic/manga writer?

yeah , pretty much

 

[Dragomer]

High 2-A For transcending the DB multiverse, which is 4-D. Until there is any confirmations of higher dimensions or multiple direct statements of him transcending dimensional space entirely he isn't going to Tier 1.

you're aware that Toribot is litteraly Toriyama ? a real person ?

 

[Dragomer]

Because he hasn't created anything above a 2-A scale, you can't just assuming the story any author creates is automatically equal, i can create a story which all takes place a single city and insert myself as a character which completely transcends everything in the story, but said story hasn't shown anything above planet level, doesn't mean i am omnipotent.
Never understood why some people think author avators/characters are all somehow omnipotent when the stories they create haven't shown anything near that scale, much less higher dimensional shenanigans.

the story aren't automaticaly equal but the authors themself are all equal and have all the same capacity as author and non fictional being

but your ability to suddenly make 99999 billions omnipotent character pop up in a tea cup within that town does make you author level

Toribot is not just an avatar , he is supposed to be litteraly Toriyama , he even answered fan mail and interview , Toribot is Toriyama's pen name , just like Toyotaro was 'Toyble' back in the day

(Toribot from Blue Dragon is another character altogether thought)

 

[Assaltwaffle]

But he isn't? Tobibot is the representation of an author within the DB verse. You will never meet Toribot. He isn't real. Akira Toriyama is a real human being who can't be scaled to DB because he is real and DB is fiction.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Read our Reality - Fiction Interaction page.

"Author avatars, fourth walls, and any similar silliness are just part of the same fiction and nothing more. It is not our world, and it is not us. The intermingling of reality and fiction is generally pure nonsense, as is automatically placing the former in a higher tier of power through "real humans solo fiction" discussions.

However, within the constraints of fiction itself there can be any number of differences between fiction and reality, but this is not necessarily something particularly impressive by our standards. We still have to evaluate the characters by their respective feats and definitions."

While toribot represents toriyama who is a real person, his character is just that a character, he has to be evaluated based on the feats he performs in his story, not just "lol he is a real person so he is superior to all fictional characters"

 

[Dragomer]

But he isn't? Tobibot is the representation of an author within the DB verse. You will never meet Toribot. He isn't real. Akira Toriyama is a real human being who can't be scaled to DB because he is real and DB is fiction.

Toriyama litteraly answered fan mail under the 'Toribot' name

and Toribot is also refered as 'Akira Toriyama' and 'the author of dragon ball'

that's exactly what i said , we don't count Toribot

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

But what if theres a character that litteraly exists? I wanna make a page for this dude but hes real, yet not.

 

[Dragomer]

But what if theres a character that litteraly exists? I wanna make a page for this dude but hes real, yet not.

See that with the staff , they decide that kind of thing

 

[Kaltias]

A character infinitely transcendent compared to the DB multiverse would be High 2-A. But being the avatar of the author doesn't mean anything by itself

 

[Dragomer]

A character infinitely transcendent compared to the DB multiverse would be High 2-A. But being the avatar of the author doesn't mean anything by itself

except that even with that logic , Toribot transcend the DB franchise , not just canon DB

 

[Kaltias]

Which is still High 2-A, unless I missed some 5D character hidden somewhere

 

[Dragomer]

Read our Reality - Fiction Interaction page.
"Author avatars, fourth walls, and any similar silliness are just part of the same fiction and nothing more. It is not our world, and it is not us. The intermingling of reality and fiction is generally pure nonsense, as is automatically placing the former in a higher tier of power through "real humans solo fiction" discussions.

However, within the constraints of fiction itself there can be any number of differences between fiction and reality, but this is not necessarily something particularly impressive by our standards. We still have to evaluate the characters by their respective feats and definitions."

While toribot represents toriyama who is a real person, his character is just that a character, he has to be evaluated based on the feats he performs in his story, not just "lol he is a real person so he is superior to all fictional characters"

Because his status as an author isn't enought to say he can do anything , as he control 100% of everything within that franchise ?

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

Tori-Bot has the potential to be either 2-A or perhaphs even High 2-A if he ever appeared as a serious character. If not then I can definitely see At least 2-C or 2-B for him.

 

[Kaltias]

Again, being the avatar of the author means nothing. Feats within the series are what matters.

This character is the avatar of the guy who makes the games. Doesn't mean that i'm going to make him Low 2-C/High 2-A out of nowhere.

 

[Dragomer]

Again, being the avatar of the author means nothing. Feats within the series are what matters.
This character is the avatar of the guy who makes the games. Doesn't mean that i'm going to make him Low 2-C/High 2-A out of nowhere.

Self Insert and Avatar are different from AUTHOR avatar , author avatar are character representing the author AS THE author within their work

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

@Dragomer Author avators should be evaluated on a case by case basis, but if they are portrayed as serious characters with complete control over their franchise, then that still only makes them powerful and "omnipotent" by the standards of their franchise.

Yea you can do anything in the context of your franchise, but so what, there are other characters in other fiction which can do far more than what you have been shown to do within your franchise as their franchise established higher levels of power.

Infinite dimensional beings don't exist in Db while in other franchises, such beings would be fodder compared to more powerful characters in other franchises.

 

[Ryukama]

@Kaltias To be fair, a character that the author takes inspiration from their own traits for is different than a character that is literally meant to be the actual author themself. It's like saying Bella Swan is the same as The Writer in DC. However I agree that a simple author avatar with no feats shouldn't be extrapolated to super high tiers.

EDIT: Dragomer kinda ninja'd me.